Character Discussion Thread

[GunGunW]

deserve
cut
I personally love Squirtle, Ivysaur, and would prefer Lucas to Ness. I just don't see it as necessary to the over all gameplay, and can respect what is better for the roster versus what I want, much better than most can.

Pretty clear in fact. You can replace maybe Falco for Wolf, but even Sakurai wanted Wolf in first in Melee. Ultimately in terms of character importance, the eight significant ones aren't even really debatable here. You can like oher ones, but there are 8 that quite stand out here.



Fixed

I think Falco is more important than Wolf to the Star Fox series; in fact. I don't even see how that's debatable.

Just clear 100 Mii mash with DKs spammable down B and clear classic mode with speed. Just like you got those 2 in every other time they were unlocked.

I... in Brawl Captain Falcon was really the only character I went out of my way to ever unlock I think aside the final three

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really don't get what you're trying to say. For me, a playable character is a character which can be controlled by me. I can control a Mii, so I don't get it why he shouldn't be treated as a character. They may be highly customizable characters, but that doesn't make them any less of a character

Also, while Stage Builder itself was not a stage, the stages you created with it were, as you could play in them...

So, Pokemon Trainer was not a playable character then?

I think Falco is more important than Wolf to the Star Fox series; in fact. I don't even see how that's debatable.

I will admit I am not a Starfox player, so I will concede I could be wrong about this one potentially.
Yet, Sakurai wanted to add Wolf, not Falco.
And to me, a Rival who drives the story, or a second in command? It's clear who is more important.

 

[Masonomace]

@ pupNapoleon
I myself am not that particularly interested in Smash Run hence I won't be getting Sm4sh on 3DS. So that Kremling head pound move used that game mode I won't question it because I didn't know of it until said now.
And I did read your previous post as it reminded me of it, which is why I wanted to post about it. To give some justice for the Mii classes, like the Stage Builder from Brawl (which was limited), it created new customized stages that could be subjectively better to 'play on'. The Mii classes with those choose-able changes would carry on that legacy, that being the reason why I've come to respect the Mii Fighters very much. The customizing variety for them seems a lot more small compared to Stage BUilder, but an entire stage change can't be that comparable to a create-a-character. We're not customizing the mechanics, hit-boxes, frame data, hit-bubbles, or anything in-game that can be change-able, we're only changing & messing around with move-sets.

And to the comments of duplicate moves compared to others like Samus for having the original Charge shot, that would be very petty of us posting about it just now when it's been a thing to have a charge-up move in Smash Bros. since 64. That's the legacy behind the charging energy blasts. She shouldn't be the only one you have to play to enjoy that feeling of shooting Fully Charged attacks. I'm glad Samus introduced this as the first character in Smash, & others allowed to have the same strategy. Thank you Samus.

 

[ZecaOMestre]

So, Pokemon Trainer was not a playable character then?

You could consider him playable as you control him in some ways (like by choosing when to return a Pokémon and send out another). But, yeah, apart from the that, you couldn't control him, so I guess he would not be playable. The playable characters were Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur. That's why Charizard is not seem as a newcomer and if we got Squirtle and Ivysaur back, I wouldn't consider Pokémon Trainer to be cut

 

[GunGunW]

So, Pokemon Trainer was not a playable character then?



I will admit I am not a Starfox player, so I will concede I could be wrong about this one potentially.
Yet, Sakurai wanted to add Wolf, not Falco.
And to me, a Rival who drives the story, or a second in command? It's clear who is more important.

Falco is one of the original four, one of the main five. and has been in every game to date and is in pretty much every mission in three out of four of the main games... Wolf has none of those titles. while it could be debated Slippy and Peppy are more important than he is, Wolf cannot; honestly, and while Wolf played a larger role in Assault, it still wasn't as large as Falco's was. It would be more debatable if it was Andross. but no Wolf is not more important than Falco.

 

[pupNapoleon]

@ pupNapoleon
The customizing variety for them seems a lot more small compared to Stage BUilder, but an entire stage change can't be that comparable to a create-a-character. We're not customizing the mechanics, hit-boxes, frame data, hit-bubbles, or anything in-game that can be change-able, we're only changing & messing around with move-sets.

Right and wrong.
To an extent, it is small- after all, they still have to have a fail-safe to be balanced.
But we can customize hit boxes, because we can adust the sizes of the Mii's we use. This also edits the weight and speed of the Mii's, which mean's we are changing more than just move sets, but play styles.

Falco is one of the original four, one of the main five. and has been in every game to date and is in pretty much every mission in three out of four of the main games... Wolf has none of those titles. while it could be debated Slippy and Peppy are more important than he is, Wolf cannot; honestly, and while Wolf played a larger role in Assault, it still wasn't as large as Falco's was. It would be more debatable if it was Andross. but no Wolf is not more important than Falco.

Since when does just being there make you important?
If Wolf drives Fox as a catalyst rival, he is more important.
In other words, would the story be more different if Falco was gone, or if Wolf was gone?
It seems to me it would be more of a loss without Wolf.
Again, I think someone who knows this series specifically should speak on the behalf of it- but in the role of just basic story telling, an antagonist or rival means a hell of a lot more than a rival who just shows up (unless there is some extreme character development which one offers and the other does not, but this seems to be a plot based story more than character driven, minus a bit here and there).
You seem to be arguing that Falco is in more games, which does not make him more important.

You could consider him playable as you control him in some ways (like by choosing when to return a Pokémon and send out another). But, yeah, apart from the that, you couldn't control him, so I guess he would not be playable. The playable characters were Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur. That's why Charizard is not seem as a newcomer and if we got Squirtle and Ivysaur back, I wouldn't consider Pokémon Trainer to be cut

Either way, I am being a bit facetious with my statement prior.
Stage Builder : Mii's :: Stages : Characters
If Mii's are A character, then Stage Builder is a stage.
If Stage Builder is a creator of stages, Mii's are a creator of more fighting player's, likewise named Mii's, but the Mii introduction is of a creation of characters, a character creation.

 

[ElPanandero]

Wouldn't this also apply for Mega Man?

His Fsmash mimics her charge shot. His final smash mimics hers as well.

Actually Mega Man's is almost identical to Palutena's.

Would he be a clone of Palutena now?


Name one.

Funny you should mention that, most of pally's specials are rips from other characters with modifications. She has a few of her own, probably like 4 (which is all she should have, they shouldnt have wasted time giving her an extra 8, but another argument)

 

[Spinosaurus]

Falco is one of the original four, one of the main five. and has been in every game to date and is in pretty much every mission in three out of four of the main games... Wolf has none of those titles. while it could be debated Slippy and Peppy are more important than he is, Wolf cannot; honestly, and while Wolf played a larger role in Assault, it still wasn't as large as Falco's was. It would be more debatable if it was Andross. but no Wolf is not more important than Falco.

Falco is the Luigi to Wolf's Wario

but Wario actually has his own game series so yeah.

 

[GunGunW]

Right and wrong.
To an extent, it is small- after all, they still have to have a fail-safe to be balanced.
But we can customize hit boxes, because we can adust the sizes of the Mii's we use. This also edits the weight and speed of the Mii's, which mean's we are changing more than just move sets, but play styles.



Since when does just being there make you important?
If Wolf drives Fox as a catalyst rival, he is more important.
In other words, would the story be more different if Falco was gone, or if Wolf was gone?
It seems to me it would be more of a loss without Wolf.
Again, I think someone who knows this series specifically should speak on the behalf of it- but in the role of just basic story telling, an antagonist or rival means a hell of a lot more than a rival who just shows up (unless there is some extreme character development which one offers and the other does not, but this seems to be a plot based story more than character driven, minus a bit here and there).
You seem to be arguing that Falco is in more games, which does not make him more important.

Actually, with the exception of a couple of missions Wolf doesn't really push that story forward that much.

Falco is the Luigi to Wolf's Wario

but Wario actually has his own game series so yeah.

I like that comparison.

 

[Masonomace]

@ pupNapoleon

Right and wrong.
To an extent, it is small- after all, they still have to have a fail-safe to be balanced.
But we can customize hit boxes, because we can adust the sizes of the Mii's we use. This also edits the weight and speed of the Mii's, which mean's we are changing more than just move sets, but play styles.

Please link me to a source of this pertaining to the Mii Fighters. I must know of this

 

[Deleted member]

@ pupNapoleon

Please link me to a source of this pertaining to the Mii Fighters. I must know of this

One of the pic of the days showed that size affects speed and weight.

"Pic of the day. Some of the physical characteristics of Miis get carried over when you use them as Mii Fighters. The smaller ones become speed fighters and the bigger ones are more akin to power fighters."

 

[pupNapoleon]

@ pupNapoleon

Please link me to a source of this pertaining to the Mii Fighters. I must know of this

It's the pic from June 26th; trying to Link, give me a minute.
'd

Falco is the Luigi to Wolf's Wario

but Wario actually has his own game series so yeah.

I like that comparison.

Maybe in a story comparison; but in reality, Luigi holds actual significance to Nintendo, and fans. The lay man has no idea who Falco is, which makes Luigi more iconic than Wario, whereas it does not make Falco stand out more than Wolf.

 

[Espio264]

Since when does just being there make you important?
If Wolf drives Fox as a catalyst rival, he is more important.
In other words, would the story be more different if Falco was gone, or if Wolf was gone?
It seems to me it would be more of a loss without Wolf.
Again, I think someone who knows this series specifically should speak on the behalf of it- but in the role of just basic story telling, an antagonist or rival means a hell of a lot more than a rival who just shows up (unless there is some extreme character development which one offers and the other does not, but this seems to be a plot based story more than character driven, minus a bit here and there).
You seem to be arguing that Falco is in more games, which does not make him more important.

You said this yes, but you're clearly not familiar with Star Fox. Wolf is not a rival that drives Fox to do anything. He's more of a pawn than anything. He's a cool addition to the antagonists so that it's not all monkeys and robots.

Falco is the Raphael to Fox's Leonardo. He is the brother character that pushes Fox's buttons and in turn forces him to be a better leader. If anyone drives Fox to do anything, it's Falco more than anybody. The game would be MUCH MORE DIFFERENT without Falco rather than Wolf.

Plus Falco is badass, and therefore the only choice for a second SF character.

 

[Masonomace]

My satisfaction is guaranteed. Also @Kermit the Ninja how did your Life Anniversary with Black Shadow go?

@ pupNapoleon please disregard what I have said to your past quotes. I was mostly wrong. Don't give me that right.

 

[Weeman]

You said this yes, but you're clearly not familiar with Star Fox. Wolf is not a rival that drives Fox to do anything. He's more of a pawn than anything. He's a cool addition to the antagonists so that it's not all monkeys and robots.

Falco is the Raphael to Fox's Leonardo. He is the brother character that pushes Fox's buttons and in turn forces him to be a better leader. If anyone drives Fox to do anything, it's Falco more than anybody. The game would be MUCH MORE DIFFERENT without Falco rather than Wolf.

Plus Falco is badass, and therefore the only choice for a second SF character.

I agree, though this only applies to 64, since he does play a larger role in Assault, where he even saves Fox's life twice, so he has an important role there, but yes i agree Falco is an overall more prominent character.
As a whole i don't think either of them should be cut.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Funny you should mention that, most of pally's specials are rips from other characters with modifications. She has a few of her own, probably like 4 (which is all she should have, they shouldnt have wasted time giving her an extra 8, but another argument)

Do I have to do this again with you?

Her custom movesets are based on the powers from Uprising.

Sakurai made Uprising.

Ergo, he probably would implement Smash-esque mechanics into the Powers.

If these return with Palutena, why would they be stolen from other characters? They are canon to her game, which, in itself, has Smash mechanics put into a TPS.

Also, Heavenly Light, Superspeed, Angelic Missile, Rocket Jump, Autoreticle, Lightweight, Celestial Firework and Explosive Flame are not ripped from any other character. Only Counter, Reflect Barrier (this is debatable), Jump Glide, Black Hole, Mega Laser and Warp slightly resemble other characters moves. But these are hardly carbon copies, are they?

Edit: I suggest you don't bring this up with someone who is planning to main the character you find is a "waste of space" and someone is more than elated to try out the custom movesets you are shamelessly bashing.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You said this yes, but you're clearly not familiar with Star Fox. Wolf is not a rival that drives Fox to do anything. He's more of a pawn than anything. He's a cool addition to the antagonists so that it's not all monkeys and robots.

Falco is the Raphael to Fox's Leonardo. He is the brother character that pushes Fox's buttons and in turn forces him to be a better leader. If anyone drives Fox to do anything, it's Falco more than anybody. The game would be MUCH MORE DIFFERENT without Falco rather than Wolf.

Plus Falco is badass, and therefore the only choice for a second SF character.

I've said I'm not familiar with StarFox, but I've also said that I believe there is likely a reason Sakurai wanted to add Wolf to Melee instead of Falco. (Or maybe I'm getting it wrong and it was in addition to Falco... but I don't believe I'm remembering that incorrectly).
Regardless, I don't believe either is cut.

I also believe Wolf serves as a representative for Andross (or just a boss/nemesis character in the series), but this is based entirely on other readings.

On this note, perhaps it is time to play some starfox. Too bad all I've got with me in Florida is my Wii U.

Do I have to do this again with you?

Her custom movesets are based on the powers from Uprising.

Sakurai made Uprising.

Ergo, he probably would implement Smash-esque mechanics into the Powers.

If these return with Palutena, why would they be stolen from other characters? They are canon to her game, which, in itself, has Smash mechanics put into a TPS.

Also, Heavenly Light, Superspeed, Angelic Missile, Rocket Jump, Autoreticle, Lightweight, Celestial Firework and Explosive Flame are not ripped from any other character. Only Counter, Reflect Barrier (this is debatable), Jump Glide, Black Hole, Mega Laser and Warp slightly resemble other characters moves. But these are hardly carbon copies, are they?

I personally believe that her gimmick is that she is a Goddess, and that such is the reason she has so many moves, because she should be more unpredictable. Just having mores to have moves doesnt make much sense to me, as many characters could do this, but as a Goddess it makes theoretical sense, and Sakurai thinks all things through.
She also has a line in her reveal trailer that says (I'll get the direct quote in a minute) something along the lines of "Anything an Angel can use a Goddess can do Better." this is a poor paraphrase, pardon.
The images Sakurai gave to Corocoro even have some of the moves compared to the main characters- the one of Palutena compares her spinning to the side, ride next to Pikachu using Skull Bash, the move it is ripped from.

Ultimately, just having weapons is a poor excuse for the moves to function so similarly, because it is a translation, and they could work however Sakurai wanted them to. He chose for them to work so very akin to other characters moves.

 

[ElPanandero]

Do I have to do this again with you?

Her custom movesets are based on the powers from Uprising.

Sakurai made Uprising.

Ergo, he probably would implement Smash-esque mechanics into the Powers.

If these return with Palutena, why would they be stolen from other characters? They are canon to her game, which, in itself, has Smash mechanics put into a TPS.

Also, Heavenly Light, Superspeed, Angelic Missile, Rocket Jump, Autoreticle, Lightweight, Celestial Firework and Explosive Flame are not ripped from any other character. Only Counter, Reflect Barrier (this is debatable), Jump Glide, Black Hole, Mega Laser and Warp slightly resemble other characters moves. But these are hardly carbon copies, are they?

Haha oh ****, that was you the first time too? Go figue

Anyway:

Heavenly light- Unique
Superspeed- Unique
Angelic Light- Luigi Missle/Skull Bash
Rocket Jump- Uniqueish
Lightweight- Unique
Celestial fireworks- Appears to be very similar to the villagers firework move as well as Snake's upsmash
Explosive Flame- A non controllable Din's FIre
Counter- Lol everyone
Reflect- Reflector
Jump Glide- Pit's glide thing/meta's glide thing
Warp- Mewtwo's teleport, Shiek's warp, and very similar to Zelda's Farore's wind

So 3 unique moves, 4 if I give you rocket jump which seems like Fire Fox with a disjointed hitbox and no start lag, but I'll give it to you because I know you'll argue it if I don't

EDIT: I don't consider her a waste of space, I consider her unnecessary development a waste of time, She deserves to be in as a regular ordinary character. And the fact that she uses a bunch of powers in her source game is so irrelevant, becaue everyone does stuff in their source games that don't get put in smash and no one else thinks there's anything wrong with it, and I don't really care if you're blindly faithful to the character, that doesn't affect my opinion in the least

 

[Fire Emblemier]

You said this yes, but you're clearly not familiar with Star Fox. Wolf is not a rival that drives Fox to do anything. He's more of a pawn than anything. He's a cool addition to the antagonists so that it's not all monkeys and robots.

Falco is the Raphael to Fox's Leonardo. He is the brother character that pushes Fox's buttons and in turn forces him to be a better leader. If anyone drives Fox to do anything, it's Falco more than anybody. The game would be MUCH MORE DIFFERENT without Falco rather than Wolf.

Plus Falco is badass, and therefore the only choice for a second SF character.

In a way, all the original members of team star fox were making Fox a better leader. Peppy the wise mentor, who not only teaches him the info he needs to lead, but also reminds him how similar he is to the past leader, his father. Slippy does it just by being slippy, he always makes mistakes that Fox has to fix and save his behind.

 

[Espio264]

I've said I'm not familiar with StarFox, but I've also said that I believe there is likely a reason Sakurai wanted to add Wolf to Melee instead of Falco. (Or maybe I'm getting it wrong and it was in addition to Falco... but I don't believe I'm remembering that incorrectly).
Regardless, I don't believe either is cut.

I also believe Wolf serves as a representative for Andross (or just a boss/nemesis character in the series), but this is based entirely on other readings.

On this note, perhaps it is time to play some starfox. Too bad all I've got with me in Florida is my Wii U.

All very good points. You've come a long way in a single post. We deserve them both. And I'm sure once you've tried them out, you'll be a fan.

 

[GunGunW]

In a way, all the original members of team star fox were making Fox a better leader. Peppy the wise mentor, who not only teaches him the info he needs to lead, but also reminds him how similar he is to the past leader, his father. Slippy does it just by being slippy, he always makes mistakes the Fox has to fix and save his behind.

That's true; but all three of them are more important to the series than Wolf is.

 

[Weeman]

That's true; but all three of them are more important to the series than Wolf is.

True, but i think Falco kinda represents the whole team already (at least the original), so there's no need to add Slippy and Peppy, and Wolf at least represents the antagonistic side, since he is both the leader of Star Wolf and a member of Andross's army in 64.

 

[~Krystal~]

It's regrettable that the first Star Fox is still not available on the virtual console store. That was the game I wanted to play on my Wii U out of all the other SF titles.

 

[Weeman]

It's regrettable that the first Star Fox is still not available on the virtual console store. That was the game I wanted to play on my Wii U out of all the other SF titles.

Not available on Wii U or in the virtual console in general?

 

[CJ Falcon]

It's regrettable that the first Star Fox is still not available on the virtual console store. That was the game I wanted to play on my Wii U out of all the other SF titles.

Good thing I have it on my SNES.

 

[GunGunW]

True, but i think Falco kinda represents the whole team already (at least the original), so there's no need to add Slippy and Peppy, and Wolf at least represents the antagonistic side, since he is both the leader of Star Wolf and a member of Andross's army in 64.

I agree completely with that. I think Fox, Falco, and Wolf is the perfect representation for Smash Bros.

 

[~Krystal~]

Not available on Wii U or in the virtual console in general?

The virtual console in general it looks like. I've been looking for that game since the Wii era.

Good thing I have it on my SNES.

Mine is long gone.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I agree completely with that. I think Fox, Falco, and Wolf is the perfect representation for Smash Bros.

You are not one to clamor for Krystal?
*le gya*

 

[GunGunW]

You are not one to clamor for Krystal?
*le gya*

Kyrstal is my most wanted newcomer actually.

 

[CJ Falcon]

You are not one to clamor for Krystal?
*le gya*

Yeah, because Krystal is a cool and unique character................pfffffft

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I agree completely with that. I think Fox, Falco, and Wolf is the perfect representation for Smash Bros.

Although there is one game in the franchise that doesn't really represent
CoughKrystalCough
Then Star Fox is fully represented, we have the hero, the sidekick, the love interest and the villain

Yeah, because Krystal is a cool and unique character................pfffffft

I dunno a staff character is pretty damn unique

 

[CJ Falcon]

Although there is one game in the franchise that doesn't really represent
CoughKrystalCough
Then Star Fox is fully represented, we have the hero, the sidekick, the love interest and the villain

I dunno a staff character is pretty damn unique

Not anymore!

 

[GunGunW]

Although there is one game in the franchise that doesn't really represent
CoughKrystalCough
Then Star Fox is fully represented, we have the hero, the sidekick, the love interest and the villain

I dunno a staff character is pretty damn unique

I actually do agree with you.

 

[Spinosaurus]

The only post-Star Fox 64 representation that I want to see is Falco's newer design.

Just gimme Falco back.

 

[GunGunW]

The only post-Star Fox 64 representation that I want to see is Falco's newer design.

Just gimme Falco back.

I agree with this also. Falco's brawl design is by far my favorite design of his.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Not anymore!

Palutena's staff style and Krystal staff style would be totally different, that's like saying we shouldn't have Marth because Link already has a sword. Or King Dedede because Ice Climbers have hammers.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Palutena's staff style and Krystal staff style would be totally different, that's like saying we shouldn't have Marth because Link already has a sword. Or King Dedede because Ice Climbers have hammers.

Any character getting in because of the weapon alone is pretty silly, when it is not explained. Unless we delve into how it works, just saying what it is means absolutely nothing, shouldn't that be clear by now?

In other news, I moved my Mii discussion to it's own thread.

As for Starfox, I'm pretty convinced that Krystal is a perfect DLC candidate. She may get in, but she is a great choice for DLC to promote the game of hers at a later date. Sakurai loving starfox, and it being the only franchise to get one new character per series, may speak otherwise, though.

 

[~Krystal~]

Palutena's staff style and Krystal staff style would be totally different, that's like saying we shouldn't have Marth because Link already has a sword. Or King Dedede because Ice Climbers have hammers.

Yeah, but Krystal is a blue fox with fur and LOL. So do you see why your argument is invalid? Are you even trying FireEmblemnier? C'mon, step it up!

 

[GunGunW]

I still wanna see K.K. Slider get his own slot...

 

[Xenorange]

What would you guys do for the ability to choose a single Character for this game? What would you guys do for the ability to own a character slot, that you could make any video game character that you wanted.