Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

How about waiting until the game's out before determining whether or not a character is unviable.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

The Tomes and Levin Sword breaking after usage and you having to wait for both to recover pretty much means Robin is going to end up as really impractical.

Normally I wouldn't be complaining about this sort of thing if it was like, say, a character from BlazBlue having this sort of gimmick, but Super Smash Bros. has this backwards design philosophy of including gimmicks just for the sake of gimmicks instead of spending the time to properly design them. Hence why I never like it when the series gets ambitious.

Not... necessarily? I mean the Levin Sword and the tomes seem very strong, and the Levin Sword even allows you to perform midair smash attacks. The Ice Climbers and Olimar were both gimmick characters, and they turned out very good.

But then again... Pokemon Trainer...

 

[Opossum]

The Tomes and Levin Sword breaking after usage and you having to wait for both to recover pretty much means Robin is going to end up as really impractical.

Normally I wouldn't be complaining about this sort of thing if it was like, say, a character from BlazBlue having this sort of gimmick, but Super Smash Bros. has this backwards design philosophy of including gimmicks just for the sake of gimmicks instead of spending the time to properly design them. Hence why I never like it when the series gets ambitious, because it makes me really paranoid.

To be fair, though, we don't know how long the cool-down times are. Maybe they're not that long. And it's not like he's a solo Popo or Pikmin-less Olimar without it. He's still got the Bronze Sword.

I just think it's too early to write off a gimmick when it could potentially be part of a key strategy, and one that is cleverly reminiscent of the tactical aspect of the home series.

 

[False Sense]

The Tomes and Levin Sword breaking after usage and you having to wait for both to recover pretty much means Robin is going to end up as really impractical.

I agree with @GoldenYuiitusin on this one, I think it's too early to say that a certain gimmick makes a character impractical. The negative aspect of having a limited use of certain moves may be balanced out by those limited moves being very powerful when they're available, or something along those lines. Until we are able to play the game for ourselves and know exactly how this character works, we simply can't dismiss the character as unviable.

 

[ElPanandero]

To be fair, though, we don't know how long the cool-down times are. Maybe they're not that long. And it's not like he's a solo Popo or Pikmin-less Olimar without it. He's still got the Bronze Sword.

I just think it's too early to write off a gimmick when it could potentially be part of a key strategy, and one that is cleverly reminiscent of the tactical aspect of the home series.

Sopo is semi viable, I've seen some jv 2 stocks and some mean combacks sopo style.

Also @ FlareHabanero I love gimmicks, we don't need a bunch of generic brawlers and sword users, once the roster gets to a certain point, the characters have to be unique and fresh or it feels stale in my opinon.

 

[N3ON]

I think you guys are missing the point. What I believe Mr. Blazer is trying to convey is that we should've just got another blue-haired sword-wielder in the vein of the ones we already had who could just play it safe and not break any barriers. Too bad we didn't have any notable candidates that fit that role.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not a mod (and it doesn't seem you are anymore either), but the random trolling is rather uncalled for.

 

[Scamper52596]

I enjoy the inclusion of clone characters. Like people have said, it allows more characters to get on the roster without having to put too much work into them to justify their existence in Smash. I guess I've always had a soft spot for clones.

When I got into Brawl, my friend and I were just having fun playing through the game. I was just getting into the Legend of Zelda franchise at the time, so it was only natural that I wanted to try Link out. I immediately wasn't a fan of how he felt. I liked the faster, lighter weight characters more so than the slower ones. At the same time, I wanted to use a character with longer range attacks.

One night I was watching a Brawl tournament on YouTube. There was a player that chose Toon Link. While watching I noticed that he was a smaller and faster Link with all of the same types of moves, and I thought his play style would work perfect for me. The next day I spent a couple hours unlocking the rest of the characters. When I played as Toon Link, his play style instantly appealed to me. I've been using Toon Link as my number one main ever sense.

That's what I feel clone characters are in Smash. They don't just take up slots and act as a boring waste of potential to me. They're there to give players more options to choose from when it comes to picking a character that they might be good with. I appreciate having more characters like Toon Link, Falco, Lucas, and Lucina to pick between. If Toon Link had a completely different move set, I'm not sure if I would enjoy playing as him like I do now. I'm more than happy that they kept him the way he is for Smash 4.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not a mod (and it doesn't seem you are anymore either), but the random trolling is rather uncalled for.

It's been a long time since I could run around randomly trolling. I miss it.

You can report me if you want.

 

[Masonomace]

But then again... Pokemon Trainer...

I was fine with my start-up frame 0 lasting 100 frames of intangibility, (with a horrid 20 frame window of punish), especially with stage transition changes making it's glitch worthy of CP'ing.
But it's still bad. .

Sopo is semi viable, I've seen some jv 2 stocks and some mean combacks sopo style.

Also @ FlareHabanero I love gimmicks, we don't need a bunch of generic brawlers and sword users, once the roster gets to a certain point, the characters have to be unique and fresh or it feels stale in my opinon.

All in favor of Sopo SSB4 hype. Also wanted to quote you for the amazing YYH avatar. And to add onto your quote with a reply, as game installments move forward more into the future, previous smash brothers. become lackluster exhausting the formula too much with not enough different implementation of new elements to the game through Franchise spicing. Approved.

I'll quote your post soon @CodeBlue_

 

[Deleted member]

It's been a long time since I could run around randomly trolling. I miss it.

You can report me if you want.

I won't, but try to make it less antagonistic. It's coming off like it's a personal attack.
At least from my perspective.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think you guys are missing the point. What I believe Mr. Blazer is trying to convey is that we should've just got another blue-haired sword-wielder in the vein of the ones we already had who could just play it safe and not break any barriers. Too bad we didn't have any notable candidates that fit that role.

Well, no, it's mainly how for some reason Super Smash Bros can't handle being ambitious with the gimmicks. Chrom wouldn't of made things magically better.

Again, it's only Super Smash Bros. that gives me this feeling. Other fighting games out there have had better success stories, mainly because there are actual attempts to make sure the gimmicks actually works. Hence why I have no problems with like say BlazBlue having the majority of the cast have some sort of gimmick attached to them.

 

[josh bones]

Oh no I didn't mean the competetive scene affected roster selection for brawl, I'm just saying Falco isn't a terribly unique/important character in Star Fox, being only marginally more important than the rest of the crew unless I missed some recent devlopments (I have admitably lost track of Star Fox canon recently). If he never made it into melee no one would have cared, he got in because he's a clone, but that doesn't make him an important star fox character.

I'm not really sure if we're agreeing or arguing here.

Also, Mango always used Falco as his secondary when he mained Jiggs, and was considered the best Falco player pretty much his whole career I'm pretty sure. He just switched later to focus on the better character IIRC

well first off, ppmd was the best , second off, he still uses along with , he just doesn't use .

 

[N3ON]

I won't, but try to make it less antagonistic. It's coming off like it's a personal attack.
At least from my perspective.

Yeah, that's not surprising. And that's why I won't hold it against you if you report me.

Well, no, it's mainly how for some reason Super Smash Bros can't handle being ambitious with the gimmicks. Chrom wouldn't of made things magically better.

Again, it's only Super Smash Bros. that gives me this feeling. Other fighting games out there have had better success stories, mainly because there are actual attempts to make sure the gimmicks actually works. Hence why I have no problems with like BlazBlue having the majority of the cast have some sort of gimmick attached to them.

Not every gimmick ends in failure, I'd at least wait until release before making any definitive kinds of statements, like was said. Even if it doesn't end up as smoothly integrated as gimmicks in other series, that doesn't mean it'll necessarily cripple the character either. I mean we have characters without any gimmicks worse than ones with gimmicks, so you never know.

 

[~Krystal~]

I have mixed feelings on clone characters, because if push came to shove, then I'd settle for the kind of compromise that would allow my favorites to get in. Still, I'd rather they be kept to a minimum if it can be helped in favor of squeezing in a character with a playstyle that's very different from the rest.

As an avid Wind Waker fan, I detest the fact Toon Link was relegated to a clone character, however, the aesthetics of his bomb explosions are exactly like those found in his game. His boomerang, true to form here as well, travels a million miles. I appreciate that attention to detail, but at the same time, there are little things that bother me. His master sword should be glowing at all times for instance. Still, these are minor complaints, and I think for a clone character, he turned out fabulously.

 

[Weeman]

I wouldn't say all gimmicks have ended up as failures, just look at Olimar.

 

[ElPanandero]

well first off, ppmd was the best , second off, he still uses along with , he just doesn't use .

Mango has the most technical falco I've ever seen, he's better than ppmd in my book. I also never said anything about Fox, I didn't know talking about how good his falco is means I had to also mention what else he's good at.

@ FlareHabanero BlazBlu is a different kind of fighter, they do gimmicks well, as does any 2D fighter with health bars that attempts it. Smash has a completely different engine, I don;t think you can compare it to BlazBlu or any other fighter for that matter

 

[Opossum]

Let's not get too heated here, guys.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not every gimmick ends in failure, I'd at least wait until release before making any definitive kinds of statements, like was said. Even if it doesn't end up as smoothly integrated as gimmicks in other series, that doesn't mean it'll necessarily cripple the character either. I mean we have characters without any gimmicks worse than ones with gimmicks, so you never know.

The only thing I can hope is that due to the development team having years of fighting game experience with the likes of Tekken and Soul Calibur means that the gimmick stigma will be over with. The lack of transformations at least gives me the impression that they're aware that switching between characters doesn't work.

 

[Burruni]

Ladies and Gentlemen... may we have a moment of silence as a grand person has left this mortal coil.

Rest in Peace, Robin Williams.

Comedian, Voice Actor, Actor, Writer, Charity Worker, and avid Zelda fan.

 

[Masonomace]

Ladies and Gentlemen... may we have a moment of silence as a grand person has left this mortal coil.

Rest in Peace, Robin Williams.

Comedian, Voice Actor, Actor, Writer, Charity Worker, and avid Zelda fan.

. . . . .We love you RW.

RIP your dreams & spirit live on.

 

[Morbi]

Ladies and Gentlemen... may we have a moment of silence as a grand person has left this mortal coil.

Rest in Peace, Robin Williams.

Comedian, Voice Actor, Actor, Writer, Charity Worker, and avid Zelda fan.

Edit- Disclaimer: This is not meant to be taken seriously, I just pondered what it would be like to have a different Robin in Smash. Please, do not take offense. Do not read if you are sensitive to the current situation.


Unless Robin Williams was considered for Smash prior to his death, I doubt that this will change anything for his chances to be completely honest. I could be wrong as he has new-found recency and his prominence within the Legend of Zelda community makes him relevant to Nintendo by extension. It is not impossible; per se, however, it is utterly unlikely. Feel free to disagree though, I am no authority on Willaims, I did not even play his game to be truthful.

 

[N3ON]

The only thing I can hope is that due to the development team having years of fighting game experience with the likes of Tekken and Soul Calibur means that the gimmick stigma will be over with. The lack of transformations at least gives me the impression that they're aware that switching between characters don't work.

My guess is it happened because of technical limitations, but they passed it off as due to balancing. Same with Olimar's Pikmin.

If the gimmick doesn't put any extra strain on the hardware (well... an insurmountable amount of strain), then I'm guessing Sakurai will opt to keep it in.

Let's not get too heated here, guys.

C'mon you guys let's keep it professional in here.

Unless Robin Williams was considered for Smash prior to his death, I doubt that this will change anything for his chances to be honest. I could be wrong as he has new-found recency and his prominence within the Legend of Zelda community makes him relevant to Nintendo by extension. It is not impossible; per se, however, it is utterly unlikely. Feel free to disagree though, I am no authority on Willaims, I did not even play his game to be honest.

I'm not a mod, but the random trolling is rather uncalled for.

 

[Weeman]

Ladies and Gentlemen... may we have a moment of silence as a grand person has left this mortal coil.

Rest in Peace, Robin Williams.

Comedian, Voice Actor, Actor, Writer, Charity Worker, and avid Zelda fan.

RIP... seeing Golden's avatar kinda makes it worse

 

[Morbi]

My guess is it happened because of technical limitations, but they passed it off as due to balancing. Same with Olimar's Pikmin.

If the gimmick doesn't put any extra strain on the hardware (well... an insurmountable amount of strain), then I'm guessing Sakurai will opt to keep it in.


C'mon you guys let's keep it professional in here.


I'm not a mod, but the random trolling is rather uncalled for.

I was trying to make the discussion on-topic, I am an adamant believer that no character is impossible. I added a disclaimer to the post.

Regardless, back to Smash. Dark Pit has additional merit after the name theory was contested. I doubt anyone wants to discuss him though. It would be an interesting reveal given Meta Knight's hint. I always associate the two after Brawl's trailer.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Unless Robin Williams was considered for Smash prior to his death, I doubt that this will change anything for his chances to be completely honest. I could be wrong as he has new-found recency and his prominence within the Legend of Zelda community makes him relevant to Nintendo by extension. It is not impossible; per se, however, it is utterly unlikely. Feel free to disagree though, I am no authority on Willaims, I did not even play his game to be truthful.

What the **** man?

RIP Robin Williams. He'll be missed.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

I was trying to make the discussion on-topic, I am an adamant believer that no character is impossible.

Technically he's already been confirmed:

Quite sad, but he will live on in my Smash Bros. game in Mii form.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Spoiler

Color Code:
Green: Confirmed.
Yellow: I have a good feeling / expectation for the character's inclusion or the franchise getting a new rep in general.
Pink: I'm not convinced either way (or I think could join in addition to yellow).
Blue: Would be an alternative if yellow/pink/other blue is not confirmed.
Red: I doubt their return.

So these are all the characters that come to mind for me at still having a chance at this point. It's not my roster prediction, it's more so all of my immediate thoughts on the remaining roster.

Anyway, my main question is, am I missing any high profile/ high potential characters that I should consider?

 

[Morbi]

Rest in Peace Robin Williams. I do not care if I get an off-topic infraction. Robin Williams was a great man and one of my favorite comedians, but I fail to see what he has to do with Smash.

 

[N3ON]

I was trying to make the discussion on-topic, I am an adamant believer that no character is impossible. I added a disclaimer to the post.

That's alright I was just trolling.

Regardless, back to Smash. Dark Pit has additional merit after the name theory was contested. I doubt anyone wants to discuss him though. It would be an interesting reveal given Meta Knight's hint. I always associate the two after Brawl's trailer.

The only merit Dark Pit needs is the abundance of KI content and the return of easy uninspired clones.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

It should be noted that the name theory wasn't exactly relevant to Dark Pit, as his name wasn't said in the Japanese version of the trailer, and likely only added during translation because he's not as popular over here.

 

[Scamper52596]

Spoiler

Color Code:
Green: Confirmed.
Yellow: I have a good feeling / expectation for the character's inclusion or the franchise getting a new rep in general.
Pink: I'm not convinced either way (or I think could join in addition to yellow).
Blue: Would be an alternative if yellow/pink/other blue is not confirmed.
Red: I doubt their return.

So these are all the characters that come to mind for me at still having a chance at this point. It's not my roster prediction, it's more so all of my immediate thoughts on the remaining roster.

Anyway, my main question is, am I missing any high profile/ high potential characters that I should consider?

Toon Zelda doesn't come to your mind when thinking about the possible Zelda candidates? I think she has a great chance of making the roster if the Zelda franchise were to get another representative.

 

[Opossum]

Rest in peace, Mr. Williams.

Due to the nature if the situation, I won't give off topic infractions for these, but please try to move the Williams discussion to the Social threads.


Let's talk about Muddy again. That was fun before.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Rest in Peace Robin Williams. I do not care if I get an off-topic infraction. Robin Williams was a great man and one of my favorite comedians, but I fail to see what he has to do with Smash.

His daughter, Zelda Williams, is actually a pretty big Smash Bros. fan. She did love participating in the celebrity part of the E3 Smash Tournament. She even chose Greninja. :3 She's just as badass as her father.

 

[Weeman]

Rest in peace, Mr. Williams.

Due to the nature if the situation, I won't give off topic infractions for these, but please try to move the Williams discussion to the Social threads.


Let's talk about Muddy again. That was fun before.

How about we talk about Dark P*GUNSHOT*

... I-i m-mean sure, Muddy would be cool, though my personal earth based fighter option would be Isaac.

 

[N3ON]

Let's talk about Muddy again. That was fun before.

He'll be an AT. Next!

His daughter is actually a pretty big Smash Bros. fan. She did love participating in the celebrity part of the E3 Smash Tournament. She even chose Greninja. :3 She's just as badass as her father.

She should've chosen Zelda.

 

[Doompatron3000]

Rest in Peace Robin Williams. I do not care if I get an off-topic infraction. Robin Williams was a great man and one of my favorite comedians, but I fail to see what he has to do with Smash.

Someone wanted to take a moment of silence and remembrance? I'm not sure why there was a need to post it here, but, he did just die today. He was also someone who loved Zelda games, plus you can make a Mii of him, and use him in Smash 4, so I guess in the lowest sense, he's now a character tied to Smash 4?

Anyways about that Dark Pit palette

 

[Morbi]

It should be noted that the name theory wasn't exactly relevant to Dark Pit, as his name wasn't said in the Japanese version of the trailer, and likely only added during translation because he's not as popular over here.

This is indeed correct; however, that did not stop people from asserting such. The argument was fallaciously alive and well even with this knowledge. It suppose it is a relief to not have to counter it by typing, "in the original Japanese source material, Palutena does not refer to Dark Pit by name and thus this sentiment does not apply to Dark Pit." Or the easy way out, "that notion is arbitrary."

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Toon Zelda doesn't come to your mind when thinking about the possible Zelda candidates? I think she has a great chance of making the roster if the Zelda franchise were to get another representative.

I guess I didn't really consider any other Toon reps. I guess she would rank somewhere after Impa, maybe before Vaati. But I'd prefer her in Tetra form. Three Zelda LoZ reps seems a little overkill now that transformations are scrapped. I've been feeling either a second Ganon so we have two complete Triforces, or Impa.

He'll be an AT. Next!


She should've chosen Zelda.

Or Robin if only s/he was an option at the time.

 

[FlareHabanero]

My guess is it happened because of technical limitations, but they passed it off as due to balancing. Same with Olimar's Pikmin.

If the gimmick doesn't put any extra strain on the hardware (well... an insurmountable amount of strain), then I'm guessing Sakurai will opt to keep it in.

I'm pretty sure it was due to balance. In the case of Olimar, it's probably to make him less suspect to camping, which seems to be a goal of sorts this time around. Other characters like Pit, King Dedede, Fox, and Samus have adjustments that make their projectiles more situational too.

Though the transformations in general suffer from the factor that is no flow between characters. Like a shoddy attempt at making a stance based moveset, though forgetting the fundamental rules that it's supposed to be a tool instead of characters and making sure they actually complement each other instead of polarizing.