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Character Discussion Thread

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I don't want Krystal in because I don't like her. I don't care if she was the one to blame for the downfall of the series or not.

Although I didn't want the Miis nor Wii Fit Trainer in and I've started to like them. In fact, I'm really looking forward to try Wii Fit Trainer, as she seems like a really interesting character. So maybe I could end up liking Krystal a little bit.
 

Leafeon523

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To me Krystal is what Dark pit is to many: a character that could be unique, but would probably end up as a boring clone. Plus, I really don't think we need 4 star fox reps. I think we already have to many at three.
 

LunarDistortion

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I think you guys are being too hard on Krystal. What if she ended up becoming a really unique character? :confused:
I'm one to talk. I advocate for Toon Zelda's inclusion quite a bit...
I used to think that Krystal would be an interesting character, but after Palutena was revealed, I think the role of a Staff wielder has been filled.
 

N3ON

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I find it hard to wrap my mind around Krystal ending up as a clone. Yes, she could be a clone, but we already have two characters with movesets partially based on Fox, I can't imagine Sakurai would choose to give us a third when there are many other options for clones of movesets that haven't already been heavily saturated.

To me it seems like she'd either be original or excluded.

I used to think that Krystal would be an interesting character, but after Palutena was revealed, I think the role of a Staff wielder has been filled.
I have no idea what Sakurai is doing adding all these sword-wielders considering the role of Sword wielder has been filled since 64. I mean considering there's only one way to work a weapon into a moveset and all...
 
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Fire Emblemier

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Personally, I want Krystal in the Smash 4, but it wouldn't be surprising if she isn't in. I'm actually, mostly content with the roster, so far, and with more coming I more excited for this game then ever, in all honesty.
 

Morbi

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To me Krystal is what Dark pit is to many: a character that could be unique, but would probably end up as a boring clone. Plus, I really don't think we need 4 star fox reps. I think we already have to many at three.
Clones are not inherently boring; in fact, most of them are more interesting (as something must be different or more unique to justify their clone status) than the character that they are cloned from. Or at least that is my subjective opinion on the matter.

I do not believe that Krystal is even remotely similar to Dark Pit, however. Dark Pit is more likely than not going to be a clone (or a alternate costume) whereas Krystal is more likely than not going to be an original character (or not in the game).
 

N3ON

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As far as characters go, I find Lucina not uninteresting.

As a playable character, I find Lucina worth trying out.

As a clone, I find Lucina boring.
 
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Well, Lucina took advantage of Marth's androgyny to create an alter-ego for herself, so you could say Lucina is kinda the fully-femenine Marth.

I'm actually looking forward to try Lucina. I've always had a hard time when playing as Marth because of that sweetspot, so having an "easier" Marth is nice.
 

FlareHabanero

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I don't have any interest in Babby's First Marth, at all.

Nor do I have much interest in that gimmick trainwreck called Robin.

Those are like the only newcomers so far that made me genuinely cringe.
 
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N3ON

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I don't have any interest in Babby's First Marth, at all.

Nor do I have much interest in that gimmick trainwreck called Robin.

Those are like the only newcomers so far that made me genuinely cringe.
Shame we didn't get Chrom as you wanted, innit?
 

False Sense

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I don't have any interest in Babby's First Marth, at all.

Nor do I have much interest in that gimmick trainwreck called Robin.

Those are like the only newcomers so far that made me genuinely cringe.
At least we didn't get Chrom. After all, you made it very clear how much you disliked him.
 

Niala

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Well, Lucina took advantage of Marth's androgyny to create an alter-ego for herself, so you could say Lucina is kinda the fully-femenine Marth.

I'm actually looking forward to try Lucina. I've always had a hard time when playing as Marth because of that sweetspot, so having an "easier" Marth is nice.
I really don't think I'll touch her myself, assuming of course the difference is literally just the sweetspot. The odds of having a tipper win me a game far outweigh the extra 10% i'll have accumulated with Lucina at the same point.
 

Masonomace

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From the very start -

With 5 DLC newcomers (adds up to 10x6 or 6x10 with random spot)
  1. Sceptile
  2. Krystal
  3. Inkling (if too new of character, then a highly requested newcomer)
  4. Bandana Dee
  5. Yarn Yoshi (wouldn't mind someone different in his place)
I love you. Rendezvous?
What would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario that Krystal ended up being the next newcomer revealed?
Not having a very positive or very negative opinion on the matter, I'd be okay with it, with the hypothetical hype that would follow it up.

Caught up to discussion, my thoughts on Krystal added, & lets say Falco & Wolf aren't going anywhere. StarFox's pinnacle seems too high for expectations, probably because the comatose state from both Starfox & F-Zero & their games, being slightly unfair to have 4 slots of Starfox. . .but StarFox's WiiU game upcoming is great news & makes fans tickled pink.

Lucina is a balanced novice Marth. That's good, finally making Marth harder to play & Master but possibly more stronger scaling based off the tip mechanic.
 
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N3ON

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Believe me, Chrom getting kicked around was the highlight of the last trailer.

That and the return of Captain Falcon.
Must be strange not being able to separate your feelings for characters within a game from your feelings for the game itself.

Well, Villager is cartoony, and I'd say Greninja is kinda cartoony too. You could fit K. Rool there too, and a potential Rhythm Heaven rep.
Getting a little ahead of yourself with the K. Rool bit.
 
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Must be strange not being able to separate your feelings for characters within a game from your feelings for the game itself.


Getting a little ahead of yourself with the K. Rool bit.
I don't know, I've always found him quite cartoony. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it.
 

N3ON

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I don't know, I've always found him quite cartoony. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it.
Oh no he's cartoony, I just meant presuming he'll be in seems a little premature.

For all we know, we could get Dixie, or maybe even no DK rep. Though Dixie would also be pretty cartoony.
 
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Oh no he's cartoony, I just meant presuming he'll be in seems a little premature.

For all we know, we could get Dixie, or maybe even no DK rep. Though Dixie would also be pretty cartoony.
Yeah, well, those were my dreams leaking there >_<

Though at this point I'm optimistic about K. Rool being in, because of the Kremlings being in Smash Run and so.
 

Xenorange

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This has been me for the past few days on the boards, I desperately hope we get some hype news/leaks soon.
 

CodeBlue_

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Ok let's do a clone debate, since, apparently, the majority of this community seems to have a problem with them. Let's see if Lucina is really a "step back" when it comes to good game design.

A clone widely viewed as a character, that is hardly even its own character (considering the effort it takes to make this character, excluding Toon Link) that promotes a different way to play the character it is cloning, is considered "boring" and shouldn't even be put in the game because of it.

I'm just going to remind you guys that what new players see on their character select screen is important. This is primarily in regards to Lucina's inclusion over her being an alternate costume:

New players don't try stuff out. They don't pay attention to characters like Zero Suit Samus in Brawl or Sheik in Melee if they are difficult to even load at the start of the match.

A character like Lucina or Toon Link being their own character would bring a LOT of appeal and would probably allow a game or series to get a lot stronger recognition than if they were being treated a mere costume.

Do you seriously think they would take any regard to Lucina if she was in the same slot as Marth? Wouldn't she just be, in their eyes, a female Marth just as Male Wii Fit Trainer is to the default female one?

Would anyone take Falco seriously in Melee if he didn't have an unique playstyle (and set of taunts) and was just placed under Fox?

Do you think anyone pays any respect to Daisy in her hinting with Peach's alternate palette? Do you think this would change if Daisy was an alternate costume?

I wouldn't think so.

Sakurai has created a really strong gimmick in these clones. His reasoning is more likely than not "different ways to play a character", which is ok in its own right in my opinion. But the clones that have stayed to this day have their own appeal outside of the gimmick that brought them on the table in the first place. They allowed the characters to be implemented as a, shall we say, "compromise" to appease the fan-base but not detract from the base of the game.

They are really popular. Popular enough to deserve a slot on the Smash Bros. Roster. Whatever what is own the character select screen means to is up to you.

There are certain characters that may need some working to differentiate themselves from their base (Toon Link), but this doesn't have to apply to every character.

Not every character needs an entirely different move-set. Having a different moveset does not make them "unique"; playing differently from the rest of the cast with a distinct style is what makes them unique.

Edit: I do not support Daisy being her own character, and her unpopularity stems from a lot of other issues. This was used primarily as an example, as her being a clone could have a possibility of changing some viewpoints against her and possibly bringing her more appeal from newer audiences, especially if she is designed correctly.
 
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Masonomace

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Ok let's do a clone debate
Okay.:jigglypuff64: to :kirby64: :falcon64: to :samus64: :falconmelee: to :ganondorfmelee: :drmario: to :mariomelee: :linkmelee: to :younglinkmelee: :marthmelee: to :roymelee: :pichumelee: to :pikachumelee: :falcon: to :ganondorf: :4marth: to :4lucina:.
HMs: :samusmelee: to :falconmelee: :samus2: to:falcon:, along with :foxmelee: to :falcomelee: :fox: to :falco: &:wolf:
let's discuss clone's overall history? Seems legit:troll:

My next post will answer all of your points, including others if they do so.
 
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ElPanandero

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Ok let's do a clone debate, since, apparently, the majority of this community seems to have a problem with them. Let's see if Lucina is really a "step back" when it comes to good game design.

A clone widely viewed as a character, that is hardly even its own character (considering the effort it takes to make this character, excluding Toon Link) that promotes a different way to play the character it is cloning, is considered "boring" and shouldn't even be put in the game because of it.

I'm just going to remind you guys that what new players see on their character select screen is important. This is primarily in regards to Lucina's inclusion over her being an alternate costume:

New players don't try stuff out. They don't pay attention to characters like Zero Suit Samus in Brawl or Sheik in Melee if they are difficult to even load at the start of the match.

A character like Lucina or Toon Link being their own character would bring a LOT of appeal and would probably allow a game or series to get a lot stronger recognition than if they were being treated a mere costume.

Do you seriously think they would take any regard to Lucina if she was in the same slot as Marth? Wouldn't she just be, in their eyes, a female Marth just as Male Wii Fit Trainer is to the default female one?

Would anyone take Falco seriously in Melee if he didn't have an unique playstyle (and set of taunts) and was just placed under Fox?

Do you think anyone pays any respect to Daisy in her hinting with Peach's alternate palette? Do you think this would change if Daisy was an alternate costume?

I wouldn't think so.

Sakurai has created a really strong gimmick in these clones. His reasoning is more likely than not "different ways to play a character", which is ok in its own right in my opinion. But the clones that have stayed to this day have their own appeal outside of the gimmick that brought them on the table in the first place. They allowed the characters to be implemented as a, shall we say, "compromise" to appease the fan-base but not detract from the base of the game.

They are really popular. Popular enough to deserve a slot on the Smash Bros. Roster. Whatever what is own the character select screen means to is up to you.

There are certain characters that may need some working to differentiate themselves from their base (Toon Link), but this doesn't have to apply to every character.

Not every character needs an entirely different move-set. Having a different moveset does not make them "unique"; playing differently from the rest of the cast with a distinct style is what makes them unique.

Edit: I do not support Daisy being her own character, and her unpopularity stems from a lot of other issues. This was used primarily as an example, as her being a clone could have a possibility of changing some viewpoints against her and possibly bringing her more appeal from newer audiences, especially if she is designed correctly.
I like clones, but I think you're overstating their importance to broaden the series recognition. If Roy weren't in melee and it was "That fire emblem guy" instead of "those fire emblem guys" I don't think the direction of the FE series would have changed dramatically. Falco is only a notable clone because of Mango and the competitive scene surrounding him. If he wasn't a melee god most people wouldn't have decried it had he been discluded. Lucina is gonna be the "girl Marth" regardless of wether or not she is a costime or a slot, the fact that she's a slot just means some people will have more fun playing as girl Marth.

Clones are great becasue they get characters in that wouldn't normally. My main and both my secondaries were all clones in melee and project M. I think we need more clones, but not because they are some boon for a series, because they let more obscure characters in without having to dedicate a ton of time to developing them, so they can appear alongside the uniques.
 

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Oh crap forgot about Ganon. I don't want him as clone anyore. He's in the same boat as Toon Link for me, but even more stressed.

And...Roy

@ ElPanandero ElPanandero There's a good reason Roy, Doc, Young Link and Pichu are gone from Melee. Nobody really cared for them, even as their own characters.

And I really don't think the competitive scene affected Falco's popularity. Mango was only notable around the start of development (2006) of Brawl, and I don't think he changed his main from Jiggs until later. I'll look into this. Regardless, the competitive scene is not even close to the majority, especially the one that wouldn't even touch Sakurai's radar.
 
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Opossum

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I don't have any interest in Babby's First Marth, at all.

Nor do I have much interest in that gimmick trainwreck called Robin.

Those are like the only newcomers so far that made me genuinely cringe.
I fail to see how Robin is a "gimmick trainwreck." You're literally the first person I've heard to say that, as well.
 

FlareHabanero

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Must be strange not being able to separate your feelings for characters within a game from your feelings for the game itself.
I really appreciate the changes done to the game, fixing problems from the predecessor Brawl and to a lesser extent the rest of the series. I also do like the newcomers this time around because there is a better sense of design involved, which was my criticism with past newcomers (especially Brawl newcomers), and I do like how several veterans are being adjusted to become more competent.

But I'll say that speculation has made me sour my prospective on certain characters, and it doesn't help a large chunk of characters I've wanted are regulated to roles like Assist Trophies and whatnot. Hence why I really hoping we could end this trainwreck ASAP.
 

Morbi

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Clones are the most unique additions to the roster as they emulate the more unique additions and give them diverse attributes to differentiate them. Jigglypuff is a great example of a (near) semi-clone that was approached differently to usurp Kirby's role. Jigglypuff is undeniably the more unique character in terms of move-set and play-style, but she started as, more or less, a clone.
 

Doompatron3000

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This has been me for the past few days on the boards, I desperately hope we get some hype news/leaks soon.
Gamescon is this week, and Hyrule Warriors comes out in Japan on August 14th. I'm thinking maybe this week we might get that desperately wished for Villains trailer (That or Ganondorf confirmed.)
 

N3ON

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I really appreciate the changes done to the game, fixing problems from the predecessor Brawl and to a lesser extent the rest of the series. I also do like the newcomers this time around because there is a better sense of design involved, which was my criticism with past newcomers (especially Brawl newcomers), and I do like how several veterans are being adjusted to become more competent.

But I'll say that speculation has made me sour my prospective on certain characters, and it doesn't help a large chunk of characters I've wanted are regulated to roles like Assist Trophies and whatnot. Hence why I really hoping we could end this trainwreck ASAP.
The characters I want most are probably going to wind up as ATs too if anything, same as last time, but if speculation has soured you, why not just remove yourself until a time comes when you'll enjoy the discussion and when it doesn't seem so comparable to an apparent train wreck. Doesn't seem worth it to subject yourself to something you find unpleasant. The speculative talk will end soon enough, but we can't make it go by any faster.

But I should clarify, I was talking about Awakening, not Smash.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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I'm actually thrilled for every character that makes it in as an AT. Like, I never thought in a million years that the Sable Prince would ever make it into a Smash game as anything more than a sticker, MAYBE a trophy. And here he is, fighting alongside the other characters as an assist. He should be honored.
 

FlareHabanero

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I fail to see how Robin is a "gimmick trainwreck." You're literally the first person I've heard to say that, as well.
The Tomes and Levin Sword breaking after usage and you having to wait for both to recover pretty much means Robin is going to end up as really impractical.

Normally I wouldn't be complaining about this sort of thing if it was like, say, a character from BlazBlue having this sort of gimmick, but Super Smash Bros. has this backwards design philosophy of including gimmicks just for the sake of gimmicks instead of spending the time to properly design them. Hence why I never like it when the series gets ambitious, because it makes me really paranoid.
 
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ElPanandero

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Oh crap forgot about Ganon. I don't want him as clone anyore. He's in the same boat as Toon Link for me, but even more stressed.

And...Roy

@ ElPanandero ElPanandero There's a good reason Roy, Doc, Young Link and Pichu are gone from Melee. Nobody really cared for them, even as their own characters.

And I really don't think the competitive scene affected Falco's popularity. Mango was only notable around the start of development (2006) of Brawl, and I don't think he changed his main from Jiggs until later. I'll look into this. Regardless, the competitive scene is not even close to the majority, especially the one that wouldn't even touch Sakurai's radar.
Oh no I didn't mean the competetive scene affected roster selection for brawl, I'm just saying Falco isn't a terribly unique/important character in Star Fox, being only marginally more important than the rest of the crew unless I missed some recent devlopments (I have admitably lost track of Star Fox canon recently). If he never made it into melee no one would have cared, he got in because he's a clone, but that doesn't make him an important star fox character.

I'm not really sure if we're agreeing or arguing here.

Also, Mango always used Falco as his secondary when he mained Jiggs, and was considered the best Falco player pretty much his whole career I'm pretty sure. He just switched later to focus on the better character IIRC
 
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