Character Discussion Thread

[pupNapoleon]

Sakurai can be an idiot at times. He ain't perfect.

I don't trust the guy, as of now

What do you suggest the budget of this game is for advertising?
Do you think it would have a public relations representative?
Does it make sense for Sakurai to make every decision about not only the game, but the marketing strategy, and what is revealed to the public, given how much time he is putting onto the game?
Would he not have consultants?
Did you see how much stock Nintendo put into Smash Bros at E3 (the entire Robot Chicken style of presentation was for the Smash Bros characters, the tournament, the round table)?
Do you think they have absolutely no say on how Sakurai handles his business with the fans?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

In terms of potential clones(not necessarily what I want to happen) we have Galacta Knight

Galacta Knight wears a lance and a shield, he can't perform Meta Knight's slicing attacks (aka almost all standard attacks), so I don't see him as a possibility.

 

[Autumn ♫]

So...these are the basic things that people are declaring in this Thread?:

1. If my favorite character does not get in, then I won't get the game.
2. Your character is a dumb request, mine is better than yours.

With me, 2 out of my 3 most wanted newcomers are already in the game (Lucina and Palutena) so I'll be getting the game either way. Also, unless you're most wanted character is Toon Zelda, then you're most wanted character is completely fine with me, but we all know Vaati's the best one though. (Unless we get Groose, that is. )

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So...these are the basic things that people are declaring in this Thread?:

1. If my favorite character does not get in, then I won't get the game.
2. Your character is a dumb request, mine is better than yours.

Bingo, the Smash 4 speculation scene in a nutshell.

 

[Berserker.]

What do you suggest the budget of this game is for advertising?
Do you think it would have a public relations representative?
Does it make sense for Sakurai to make every decision about not only the game, but the marketing strategy, and what is revealed to the public, given how much time he is putting onto the game?
Would he not have consultants?
Did you see how much stock Nintendo put into Smash Bros at E3 (the entire Robot Chicken style of presentation was for the Smash Bros characters, the tournament, the round table)?
Do you think they have absolutely no say on how Sakurai handles his business with the fans?

The thing is, the game can still go on without Ridley either way. Smash is already gaining hype and it can still gain more with out him. Smash is Smash, the end. To add to that, things haven't been looking so good for Ridley (On paper) with the whole "Stage hazard" war going on around here in the forums

More importantly, no point in arguing with me. I'm keeping my pessimist shades on. I want Ridley but I don't think Sakurai's gonna include him for *whatever* reasons. Not sure. May be dumb or incredibly dumb reasons.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm pretty sure those characters can be skipped over just like any other character.

There is nothing forcing the development team to commit to either, just like anything else.

Ridley is one of those type of characters that would be a ***** to balance, and Mewtwo needs the extra commitment due to how badly his moveset was received last time around. It's a matter of whether or not the developers will put commitment into developing characters from scratch and spend the time tweaking with every aspect until it's ready for release. Ridley being a stage hazard on Pyrosphere means he's out of the picture, while Mewtwo is unknown.

They could have skipped over them a long time ago. RIP THE BANDAID OFF. At this point they have backed themselves into a hole. It is an EXCEPTIONALLY poor marketing strategy to keep an enormous legion of fans hopeful, actually changing informaion around to give them reason to believe their characters are in the game. Greninja was flat out made to look like Mewtwo, and Ridley was purposefully left as a shadow. If these were characters that were not heavily requested, then it would be fine for Sakurai to tease them as just having any role in the game.

Yet, to go out of his way to make fans think they have SOME role in the game, and that they are playable, and then NOT make the playable, is a way to either demonstrate a god complex (I can do whatever I want--- this is not MY interpretation of Sakurai), or a way to play that tonic note of introduction, teasing them for a long period of time, that unsureness to fans, until we have that beautiful resolution in the cadence of their reveals.
The only third option I can find is that these characters have roles Sakurai would find equally as pleasing to fans, which he may consider playable bosses- but not regular bosses.

I honestly think he's the 2nd most likely Zelda character, only behind Impa. (I bet @Diddy Kong always wanted to hear me say that Impa was the most likely Zelda character.)

I agree. I just do not know how likely we are to get one. Impa should have replaced Sheik.

Recently, I've realized how important Fire-Water-Grass is to the Pokemon franchise (because starter Pokemon are probably the most important Pokemon you get, even more than the legendaries), so I'm no longer entirely dismissive of Sceptile. And given Dark Pit's popularity in Japan, I'm not counting him out either. I mean, I still think he'd be a bad newcomer choice, but North American demand got us Little Mac, so a character that's popular in Japan getting in would be fair.

I also don't think either-or scenarios will exist this time around. There's so much space being saved by there not being a Subspace Emissary + cutscenes the possibilities are nearly limitless.

VICTORY!

 

[Spinosaurus]

That's fine, I hate when someone tells another not to hope for a video game. If one cannot hope for a VIDEO game, what is safe to hope for?

I'm talking about the corocoro thing. There's no source for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Galacta Knight wears a lance and a shield, he can't perform Meta Knight's slicing attacks (aka almost all standard attacks), so I don't see him as a possibility.

Have you actually fought against him, he still slashes his lance rapidly like a sword to attack. He even shoots sword beams at you. I'm not saying I would want him to be clone, but it's possible. Here's the video, most of the sword like actions occur staring at the 50 second mark.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Except "deservingness" as always been a precedent and boring has prevented characters like Chom from being playable.

The thing with Chrom is that he pratically takes everything from the Lords from previous games. It's not that he was boring but rather he had nothing to differentiate himself from Marth or Ike. I tihink Lucina was simply more popular in Japan as well.

I'm talking about the "boring" when referring to characters like Bandanna Dee, Dark Pit or the Rhythm Heaven reps that people only call as such because they don't like the character or can't fathom the way they would work being unique at all.

Smashboards is notorious for the "this character has to be unique, not boring" double standard which brings them to pick obscure characters such as Duck Hunt Dog over more logical choices (I'm not saying likely, just more logical) such as Bandanna Dee (the most likely Kirby veteran we would get to represent Kirby's Return to Dreamland, the most recent game before the development of Smash 4).

My problem is that "deserved" and "boring" are highly subjective and are thrown around just to mitigate a character's chances.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The thing with Chrom is that he pratically takes everything from the Lords from previous games. It's not that he was boring but rather he had nothing to differentiate himself from Marth or Ike. I tihink Lucina was simply more popular in Japan as well.

I'm talking about the "boring" when referring to characters like Bandanna Dee, Dark Pit or the Rhythm Heaven reps that people only call as such because they don't like the character or can't fathom the way they would work being unique at all.

Smashboards is notorious for the "this character has to be unique, not boring" double standard which brings them to pick obscure characters such as Duck Hunt Dog over more logical choices (I'm not saying likely, just more logical) such as Bandanna Dee (the most likely Kirby veteran we would get to represent Kirby's Return to Dreamland, the most recent game before the development of Smash 4.

My problem is that "deserved" and "boring" is highly subjective and is thrown around just to mitigate a character's chances.

I mean, I think that is a stretch.
Sakurai never gives us the whole story, and we should not expect him to.
We did not get Chrom because he did not want to add Chrom. If we get Dark Pit is because he wanted to add Dark Pit.
Chrom had as much source material to work with as Lucina, Lucina just happened to be more popular, and of note, a female. We can state this isn't important (despite the fact that the only human male without an alternate costume that we have seen as a newcomer, so far, out of 11, is Little Mac. One out of 11). Yet, I would say numerically, that is of huge base. Even if he upgraded Lucina from costume- the fact that Lucina was a costume and Chrom was not already emphasizes this. Chrom had a model just the same, we can see it in the final smash that he is just as detailed.

Hmm.. I started to rant....

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Have you actually fought against him, he still slashes his lance rapidly like a sword to attack. He even shoots sword beams at you. I'm not saying I would want him to be clone, but it's possible. Here's the video, most of the sword like actions occur staring at the 50 second mark.

Yeah, I'm actually a big-time Kirby fan, it's my second favorite video game franchise only behind Metroid, which is why I can also say a Kirby boss and a Smash character is a totally different ballgame. I just can't see him doing stuff like his Jab, N-air, B-Air, D-Air, U-Air, F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Smash, etc, there are a lot more details involved with a Smash character. You can even see that the only slash thing he does in Kirby is that quick slicing move anyways, and that's because that's a move that goes so fast it's hard to visualize, otherwise he stabs, stabs, creates sword beams, tornados, shuttle loops, etc. I'm also wondering what kind of sound effects they'd use for his attacks, but that's more of a minor issue. He's fine as a Kirby clone boss, but I don't think he can cut it as a Smash clone of Meta Knight. Not that I'd protest against it, I wouldn't really mind him, the more Kirby the merrier to me, but I just find him unlikely from a game design standpoint.

 

[CodeBlue_]

I mean, I think that is a stretch.
Sakurai never gives us the whole story, and we should not expect him to.
We did not get Chrom because he did not want to add Chrom. If we get Dark Pit is because he wanted to add Dark Pit.
Chrom had as much source material to work with as Lucina, Lucina just happened to be more popular, and of note, a female. We can state this isn't important (despite the fact that the only human male without an alternate costume that we have seen as a newcomer, so far, out of 11, is Little Mac. One out of 11). Yet, I would say numerically, that is of huge base. Even if he upgraded Lucina from costume- the fact that Lucina was a costume and Chrom was not already emphasizes this. Chrom had a model just the same, we can see it in the final smash that he is just as detailed.

Hmm.. I started to rant....

Ignore the Chrom part, it was just to show other possible reasonings for a character not being included other than "BORING".

The last two points I make are more important than it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Galacta Knight would be a perfect alt costume for Meta Knight.
Sure he COULD function differently from Meta Knight.
Yet, does he NEED to?
I cannot believe Sakurai would have told us his entire statement about alt character costumes if he did not still have a few. Now everyone is jumping the gun to say every one who would have qualified as this is now a full roster clone.
Let's take a step back and realize he was going to go through with it, he announced it, it is heavily probable if he brought it to light, there is a great shot characters still fall into this category.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I'm actually a big-time Kirby fan, it's my second favorite video game franchise only behind Metroid, which is why I can also say a Kirby boss and a Smash character is a totally different ballgame. I just can't see him doing stuff like his Jab, N-air, B-Air, D-Air, U-Air, F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Smash, etc, there are a lot more details involved with a Smash character. You can even see that the only slash thing he does in Kirby is that quick slicing move anyways, and that's because that's a move that goes so fast it's hard to visualize, otherwise he stabs, stabs, creates sword beams, tornados, shuttle loops, etc. I'm also wondering what kind of sound effects they'd use for his attacks, but that's more of a minor issue. He's fine as a Kirby clone boss, but I don't think he can cut it as a Smash clone of Meta Knight. Not that I'd protest against it, I wouldn't really mind him, the more Kirby the merrier to me, but I just find him unlikely from a game design standpoint.

Yeah, I suppose that's all true. I'm just saying that it's possible for him to be clone. Sorry, if I came off as rude in my original reply. I guess if he were to make the cut he would most likely be pseudo clone, if not completely original. I should have thought more about my statements.

 

[Leafeon523]

A Galacta Knight discussion? Hooray!
Anyway, if Galacta knight were to be added, I'm pretty sure he would be a clone. Sure, he could have a really amazing original moveset, but I don't think he has had enough appearances to warrant such an inclusion. Yet I think he could very easily be added as a clone of meta Knight. Sure, his abilities and weaponry are a bit different, but this is the game where Ganondwarf and Captain Falcon are clones.

 

[Autumn ♫]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

Switch Vaatti for someone more realistc like Impa or Ghirahim and then it's perfect.

 

[Leafeon523]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

Overall it's a very nice roster. Although I don't think we will get 55 characters and only 1 additional clone. Also, I'm pretty sure Roy won't be coming back, seeing how Lucina is in.

Switch Vaatti for someone more realistc like Impa or Ghirahim and then it's perfect.

You've clearly don't know ScatmansWorld25

 

[Autumn ♫]

Switch Vaatti for someone more realistc like Impa or Ghirahim and then it's perfect.

Spoiler

 

[GunGunW]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

I like that it's not pessimistic; you even include Snake.

 

[NickerBocker]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

Pretty ideal roster. I do think it is a little big, but I got nothing against being optimistic. I dont think the roster will be that big, probably 50 +- 2 characters.

You got KKR, Ridley, Mewtwo and Vaati, so im all good for that.

 

[Second Power]

I actually prefer Galacta Knight to Bandanna Dee, but he's significantly less likely. I forget, did the fact that his weapon lacked a cutting edge prevent him from taking Metaknight's moves in the source material?

Edit: Wow my skimming skills suck.

 

[GunGunW]

Maybe Ganondorf can get a Demise alternate outfit.

 

[Masonomace]

Would you rather?

A: Get 15 Nintendo characters, of your choosing, but they are all Captain Falcon alternates. (Same stats and everything as CF.)
or
B: Get 1 Nintendo character, of your choosing, but they are a clone of any confirmed character already. (Lucina type clone where stats vary a little from the base character.) And describe who of who.


A: 1 new original third party character, your choice, but have to cut 5 of the NEWLY announced Smash Bros 4 challengers, your choice. (Who and who?)
or
B: Keep with the current status quo/ Sakurai's Smash 4 game.


A: King K. Rool and Ridley (Both original characters)
or
B: Dark Pit, Paper Mario, Sceptile, Shulk (All original characters)

A. Phoenix, Beastman, Mighty Gazelle, Black Shadow, Deathborn, Baba, James McCloud, Blood Falcon, Jody Summers, Pico, Dr, Stewart, 4 other derp n slurp clones who I wouldn't mind of at all.

B because I don't want to make a heavy decision of losing more than gaining less.

B, because quantity > quality. More characters is always > than less, no matter how good & demanded those few characters are. . . . . . .k fine Sceptile helped decide that too, what can I say? I'm a reptile-loving, green fanatic that's wearing Green ranger shirt hoodie & a belt over my forehead.

So...these are the basic things that people are declaring in this Thread?:

1. If my favorite character does not get in, then I won't get the game.
2. Your character is a dumb request, mine is better than yours.

I'm glad I find Smash Brothers fun for the amount of characters I've grown to over the installments, I haven't read enough posts that say a character is dumb, so I'm probably looking elsewhere. Sm4sh was hype beyond hype for me the moment I heard & saw confirmed. We have millions of capcom fans prayers answered for something he appears in. . . .Nah I'm adulting, it won't have Sceptile so no deal.

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

For the most part, this pleases me greatly, gives all the Nintendo Universe franchises a decent amount more playable characters amount. Snake is O.K. with me, he had a great game-play design in Brawl imo, & seeing fan favorites come to hypothetical life is a plus. I feel 15% disappointed from no Pikmin love or F-Zero love through one more character but I can live with it!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yeah, I suppose that's all true. I'm just saying that it's possible for him to be clone. Sorry, if I came off as rude in my original reply. I guess if he were to make the cut he would most likely be pseudo clone, if not completely original. I should have thought more about my statements.

No need to apologize, you didn't come off as rude at all, I'm worried I might have though. He would be pretty cool as a more differentiated clone actually, more stabbing and less slicing, maybe a shield beam as his side-b, in that way I could see him work a bit better. A more grounded Meta Knight perhaps?

Galacta Knight would be a perfect alt costume for Meta Knight.
Sure he COULD function differently from Meta Knight.
Yet, does he NEED to?
I cannot believe Sakurai would have told us his entire statement about alt character costumes if he did not still have a few. Now everyone is jumping the gun to say every one who would have qualified as this is now a full roster clone.
Let's take a step back and realize he was going to go through with it, he announced it, it is heavily probable if he brought it to light, there is a great shot characters still fall into this category.

I am expecting some complicated alt costumes too, seems like people forgot about Sakurai noting even names can be different, but I don't really think Galacta Knight is going to be that because of his shield, lance and wings. Either he's a semi-clone or he isn't in, and I'm leaning heavily towards the latter.

 

[YoshiandToad]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

I sure love a Scatmansworld roster! Full of optimism and joy. You guys get your Ridley/K.Rool/Mewtwo/Shulk dream team, I get my Captain Toad/Vaati/Bandana Dee/Impa dream team(As well as semi supports Roy, Sceptile and Isaac) and even Morbid gets Dark Pit.

Everyone's a winner. Unless you supported someone not on here. Obviously.

What a shame the final roster is inevitably going to be more disappointing than this.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

This thread hasn't seen a new roster in a while, so I guess I'll show you guy's mine.

Bottom is DLC.

This is a list of characters I would be delighted to see make it in the game; however, depending on the DLC, I would not be keen on having that service. Not that I am against the characters in the DLC portion, but the thought of paying for DLC.

To Galacta Knight Supporters

I think Galacta Knight's biggest obstacle when it comes to SSB4 is his role in the Kirby games. In all of them, he is an extra boss for those who love the challenge.

 

[Protom]

I made a quick pic with the status of each brawl assist trophy:

Remaining (Ones in bold are the ones I believe have an actual playable chance):
Mr. Resetti
Excite Biker
Gray Fox
Kat and Anna
Jeff
Jill Dozer
Helirin
Issac
Advance Wars Platoon
Barbara
Ray

 

[TCT~Phantom]

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

 

[ihskeyp]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

I love that you included Dixie!!
I personally don't think Bandana Dee, Dark Pit, or Ghirahim will be playable. Other than that, I like your roster!

 

[Second Power]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

61 characters? I'm sorry, but that's way too much.

 

[Kenith]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

61 characters is a LOT.

But on the other hand, Ghirahim and Paper Mario...

 

[Oracle_Summon]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

Whats up with the positioning of King K. Rool and Wolf before Donkey Kong and Fox? Same goes for Dark Pit and Pit.

 

[False Sense]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

For a prediction roster, that's way too large. I think at best, we're only going to get a little over 50 characters. 60+ is just far too much when we're so close to release and there are only so many newcomers left.

To make it more realistic, you'd probably have to remove one newcomer from nearly every series you added one to.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

I share the general opinion that it's rather large. Can't say how many I'd recommend taking out, cause at this point, I have no clue how many we're gonna get. Personally, I'd just start with trimming it to maybe 56.

Aside from that, your choices themselves are pretty solid.

And Scatman, I can't even tell what the hell you changed. xD As always, great roster.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well, yeah, but that was because the roster was too small otherwise, that's no longer a problem.

But weren't you arguing that clones would not steal the spot of a unique character? If so then my argument is that while there isn't a clone taking anyone's spot, a whole bunch of clones still would.

 

[Autumn ♫]

And Scatman, I can't even tell what the hell you changed. xD As always, great roster.

It's the same roster I've had for a while, which is the one I made after yours. So, there aren't any changes.

 

[Masonomace]

View attachment 21102

This is my exact prediction of the roster, thoughts?

Going left to right, horizontal rows:
Frist row going from - is a good prediction. Satisfying the fan-favorite-quota regarding wants, but it's not out of the question. DKC's 4 playable slots is the only thing that's suspicious to me, I feel Dixie & KKR are fighting for that 3rd slot Idk why.
Second row going from - is also a decent prediction. I'm not too sure of Ghirahim although he'd be a fine addition imo, while DP being up there isn't insayian, ending off with Ridley as the biggest nail-biter controversy, which I have a neutral opinion on, so I give that row a decent rating with skepticism on Ghirahim & Ridley.

Third row going from - is another good prediction considering it has all the safe Nintendo franchises in that row. It's good imo because you make Pokemon have 7 reps which is believable & my loving bias becoming eggsposed. The touchy returning subject of Ness let alone Lucas is still in question but for now can sit on the back-burner until we learn about Mother's fate in SSB4. Ending off with Starfox i'm somewhat thinking Wolf may be replaced with another Starfox character, but considering the other options I'd rather only go with 3 or 4 keeping Wolf & adding Krystal, or cut Wolf & put Krystal in place.

Fourth row going from - is a decent prediction. You have 4 playable characters for Dreamland which is believable because we all know Sakurai loves his Dreamland & 4 slots, which would of been a big deal in Brawl let alone Melee, is not going to be criticized for Bias in SSB4. Chorus Men. . .Idk I just feel a quarter of the people wanted them are Gematsu's leak believers, while the other 75% were the people who played Rhythm Heaven, not to mention as far as sales go, RH hasn't broken 1.00 Million sales global, even Wii Fit broke 22 Million as far as Sales goes. For the rest FE seems content & fine with 4, Shulk seems to be a shoe-in but I can't say it with my own evidence & reasons why due to not playing Xenoblade, I feel F-Zero might just get another playable character, time will tell.

Fifth row going from - or Random, I only have issues with Issac & Ice Climbers. Issac could get he same treatment Little Mac got as AT upgrade, but I'm not ready to say he's in or out, I don't mind his inclusion or AT status again. Ice Climbers mentioned from a source read back, saying Ice Climbers had issues with their game-play on the 3DS? Leads me to believe if ICs were still going to be in SSB4, they'd be tweaked to adjust to 3DS or there might be some Character / Stage / Music options only available in 3DS OR WiiU. Won't be surprised by it.

Overall your list is huge, I'd decrease the number of 61 slots to maybe 56 / 57 / 58. Newcomers seem to become almost a third of the roster's size in each Smash Installment so it's not that bad.
out of 5 Hyesz! from me. Only issue with it like most of the replies you're getting back is the size of the roster.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Fifth row going from - or Random, I only have issues with Issac & Ice Climbers. Issac could get he same treatment Little Mac got as AT upgrade, but I'm not ready to say he's in or out, I don't mind his inclusion or AT status again. Ice Climbers mentioned from a source read back, saying Ice Climbers had issues with their game-play on the 3DS? Leads me to believe if ICs were still going to be in SSB4, they'd be tweaked to adjust to 3DS or there might be some Character / Stage / Music options only available in 3DS OR WiiU. Won't be surprised by it.

Just gonna talk about the Ice Climbers here. I believe most of us have come to the collective opinion that Rosalina is fair enough grounds to say that the issues with the Ice Climbers have been overcome. The Luma operates, at bare minimum, in a similar fashion to Nana/Popo, which resolves that issue in most of our minds. That was the issue that most of us jumped to when that came out, but I've also seen an argument for simply having 8 Ice Climbers on such a small screen. It got me thinking a bit more, but ultimately, I decided on my own that Rosalina, again, solved this issue. Having 4 Roslalinas and 4 Lumas, to me, sounds about equivalent to 8 Ice Climbers.

And we've also been told that there would be the same roster on both versions, which we've known for a long, long time.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

52 Characters, a random slot, and a DLC slot.

Who thinks this is quite possible? Who'd be happy?