Character Discussion Thread

[Spinosaurus]

I was but a wee little infant when DKC 2 released, is Dixie Kong really that iconic? More than K. Rool?

Nah. To the both of them.

Iconic has really lost its meaning here.

 

[ihskeyp]

Nah. To the both of them.

Iconic has really lost its meaning here.

I think they mean iconic to Nintendo. Not iconic, like, to the entire gaming world.

 

[Morbi]

You forgot some fun stages:
-Roster is revealed. Some people rage because the character THEY wanted didn't make it.
-Roster is revealed. Some people boast about how the character THEY wanted made it.
-Datamining reveals unfinished fighters.
-Unfinished fighters fuel DLC discussion/ make people rage that X character wasn't finished.
-After the 3ds version release, Sakurai will announce a Wii U exclusive mode: People get hype/ People rage
-People clamor for the inclusion of more characters on the Wii U version even though its been stated that the rosters will be the same.
-Sakurai backtracks on this statement and adds: "The roster on the 3ds will be the same as the Wii U roster... after you buy DLC, which comes included in the Wii U version"
-DLC is controversial and (you probably guessed it) people get hype/ people rage.

My favorite stage, it is the stage I have been in for about a year now; I expect that to continue for another couple of months... not to boast or anything.

 

[Nat Perry]

The only "needs" I see are: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Pikachu, Kirby and Fox (perhaps Yoshi... I am not convinced).

Yeah, I think the original roster in SSB64 was all that was "needed," I could say we didn't "need" Jigglypuff or Luigi, but we have them now and people like them. I think Yoshi was "needed," after all he has his own platforming series, and he's cute.

Perhaps I meant what was "suitable" or "fitting," given how the Smash series has progressed.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think they mean iconic to Nintendo. Not iconic, like, to the entire gaming world.

I really have no idea what that means.

You're either an iconic figure or not. It doesn't really matter for Smash Bros, anywho.

 

[Sebz]

The food is new content; it gets most hostile when we see this nourishment approaching, we get savage fighting for it, and then calculate how to gain it next time. When it vanishes, so do we.

Methinks that's being overly dramatic.

Smash was marketed as a fanservice game where you get to play your favourite iconic Nintendo characters. That's what the majority of people play the game for.

Let me give you an example of how overrepping insignificant franchises like KI affects fans of other franchises. I for example, really want Dixie in the game. Person A really wants K. Rool. B wants Mewtwo, C wants Paper Mario, D wants Ridley etc. Not popular iconic character will get into this game. Thing is, had they not spent time on someone like Palutena, someone that is universally popular might have got in that otherwise. So if Dixie doesn't get in as a playable character, there is a chance that they would have had the time to put her in had they not developed Palutena. This isn't about me getting my way, it's about giving proportionate representation.

Wrong. This is YOUR perception of Smash, but since day 1, it has also been used to promote unknown/new series and promote sales. Nobody in the US knew who Ness was before Smash 64, the game was used to bring awareness to the franchise. Smash is a great opportunity for Nintendo to promote their product, but an even greater opportunity for us to get into them.

As for your second paragraph, that is also your perception of the development of the game. If X character gets in, people who support Y will cry "they took our spot". If Y character gets in, people who support X will cry "they took our spot". It comes down to Sakurai to determine what "proportionate representation" is. In his mind, he could think of DK as nothing more than an extension of Mario, a franchise which if you include Wario and Yoshi as well, could be perceived to be over-represented. It's all a matter of perspective an unfortunately, the only one that matters is Sakurai's.

It is down to you to decide if you accept of his final product.

 

[ElPanandero]

Yea..I don't care for Kid Icarus, and I hate how Plat is being developed in the game (but yea we're done with conversation now) and even I have to say that she belongs in the game. From as neutral, potentially even anti, Kid Icarus gamer out there, smash has done the perfect amount. Dark Pit remains a question mark, but outside of being a silly (sorry Morbid ) questionable choice for other reasons, even I don't think the fact that he's a KI character is something to hold against him or the series.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

Methinks that's being overly dramatic.


Wrong. This is YOUR perception of Smash, but since day 1, it has also been used to promote unknown/new series and promote sales. Nobody in the US knew who Ness was before Smash 64, the game was used to bring awareness to the franchise. Smash is a great opportunity for Nintendo to promote their product, but an even greater opportunity for us to get into them.

As for your second paragraph, that is also your perception of the development of the game. If X character gets in, people who support Y will cry "they took our spot". If Y character gets in, people who support X will cry "they took our spot". It comes down to Sakurai to determine what "proportionate representation" is. In his mind, he could think of DK as nothing more than an extension of Mario, a franchise which if you include Wario and Yoshi as well, could be perceived to be over-represented. It's all a matter of perspective an unfortunately, the only one that matters is Sakurai's.

It is down to you to decide if you accept of his final product.

That is deep. but Shulk will make the cut. If sakurai doesnt have him in, every one will go crazy!

 

[epicgordan]

Putting Pit in Brawl was a marketing ploy so that he could make a KI game. He put Pit in Smash so that his KI game would sell, as Smash makes characters popular (eg. FE reps being put in Melee to market FE to the western audience, which hadn't got FE yet).

Yeah, because there's nothing more insincere or selfish than bringing a dead back to life or familiarizing audiences with a franchise they never had beforehand. And it's worth noting too that Sakurai was going to make Marth and Roy Japan exclusive, but kept them in after Western audiences learned of them and expressed a great deal of interest in them, and it was because of their popularity that Fire Emblem ever got localized outside of Japan.

It wasn't about giving fans what they wanted, because no one asked for Pit. It was about making money, at the expense of a potential character that people actually wanted.

Yeah, how dare Sakurai makes money by doing something good like, you know, trying his darn hardest to try and secure a good future for such an underrated video game series. Capitalist pig!

The difference between KI and other series is that other series are in Smash because they're popular. KI is popular now because of Smash (although it's overall sales still pale in comparison to like, everything else). That's why people get annoyed when it gets so much rep, because it doesn't deserve it and it doesn't appeal to the wider audience.

Maybe you haven't caught on to my sarcasm yet, but why hasn't anyone took into consideration that the reason Sakurai is over representing the Kid Icarus franchise--especially with the possible inclusion of Dark Pit as his own fighter--as a means of, I don't know, securing a profitable future for a long dormant series? It's by over representing that Sakurai can actually help people appreciate the franchise a lot more than he would otherwise. That's basic marketing tactics right there.

And of course it's bias. KI has 3 original games with basically a decade between each one. If every series of a similar scale or bigger had its core characters represented in Smash, the roster would probably need to have over 100 slots. The fact that KI gets any rep at all over other franchises is just down to bias.

No, Kid Icarus' massive representation in Smash Brothers stems from the fact that Sakurai doesn't want the series to go dormant again, and his game as well as it's presence in Smash Brothers helps the unfamiliar gain a fruitful familiarity and appreciation for the series so Nintendo could continue to make more games in the future. It's like Marth and Roy in Melee, and it was thanks to their inclusion that the series wound up getting localized worldwide. Granted, it is a bit of a curiosity why we haven't gotten a new Ice Climbers game yet, but given that said franchise was barely ever represented in the first place, it wouldn't really be the same thing. But whether you like it or not, what Sakurai is doing for Kid Icarus is a very good thing and is a very viable and intelligent decision from a marketing standpoint.

Oh, and because the text color blended with your comments, I decided to change the color font white for this font, especially since I don't like it when my eyes bleed out of my sockets.

 

[Morbi]

Yea..I don't care for Kid Icarus, and I hate how Plat is being developed in the game (but yea we're done with conversation now) and even I have to say that she belongs in the game. From as neutral, potentially even anti, Kid Icarus gamer out there, smash has done the perfect amount. Dark Pit remains a question mark, but outside of being a silly (sorry Morbid ) questionable choice for other reasons, even I don't think the fact that he's a KI character is something to hold against him or the series.

Dark Pit is the least questionable, questionable choice... give me that at least!

 

[ElPanandero]

Dark Pit is the least questionable, questionable choice... give me that at least!

Fair enough, there are very few realistically possible questionable choices, and Dark Pit has got it locked up. He carefully toes the line between the "he might actually make it in" and the "should he even be in?" and he does it better than any character we've ever seen in speculative smash history!

Well him and Ridley

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Once again in regards to a smash run enemies... We only saw a e3 build with half the roster and their potentional enemies

 

[pupNapoleon]

Dark Pit is the least questionable, questionable choice... give me that at least!

What are you going to do when he is not playable?

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

What are you going to do when he is not playable?

He was playable in brawl.

 

[Morbi]

What are you going to do when he is not playable?

He was playable in brawl.

This.

I am going to play as Dark Pit once he is not playable. No one can hold me down.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This.

I am going to play as Dark Pit once he is not playable. No one can hold me down.

OH! So THAT is what you mean when you say he is going to be playable in this game.

That he is going to be an alt.

Then we have been debating absolutely nothing.

Of course Dark Pit is an alt. No one could possibly believe otherwise.

 

[Scamper52596]

OH! So THAT is what you mean when you say he is going to be playable in this game.

That he is going to be an alt.

Then we have been debating absolutely nothing.

Of course Dark Pit is an alt. No one could possibly believe otherwise.

Your move, Morbid...
I'm interested to see how this escalates.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Your move, Morbid...
I'm interested to see how this escalates.

We've both said all we are going to say on the matter. Morbid did not respond to quite a few of my points back when I was actually making points about it five days or so ago

Since then I've just been button pushing.

Morbid and I both know the only guaranteed character is Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Morbi]

Your move, Morbid...
I'm interested to see how this escalates.

Why must you place the burden on poor little, Gurgi?

OH! So THAT is what you mean when you say he is going to be playable in this game.

That he is going to be an alt.

Then we have been debating absolutely nothing.

Of course Dark Pit is an alt. No one could possibly believe otherwise.

No one... but Sakurai!

Exhibit A:

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

Exhibit B:

Spoiler

Exhibit C:

This is a quote from Sakurai's twitter, "Kuro Pit's mysterious appearance on Parutena's Temple was fairly unprecedented *laughs* I am sure that you will be surprised to see what we managed to do with him in this game."

Exhibit D:

Antony Del Rio is a voice actor for Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Exhibit C:

This is a quote from Sakurai's twitter, "Kuro Pit's mysterious appearance on Parutena's Temple was fairly unprecedented *laughs* I am sure that you will be surprised to see what we managed to do with him in this game."

Wait, what?

 

[Morbi]

Wait, what?

Just a little Morbid humor. He did not actually insinuate anything to that effect, to clarify.

We've both said all we are going to say on the matter. Morbid did not respond to quite a few of my points back when I was actually making points about it five days or so ago

Since then I've just been button pushing.

Morbid and I both know the only guaranteed character is Pokemon Trainer.

I did not respond because I did not see them. Re-post them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I've responded to 'Exhibit A' with about 9 other points which have fallen on deaf ear.

Yet B, C, and D are all quite, QUITE intriguing new pieces of information which I've not once heard you reference (and have in fact asked for). I will ponder.

@ Morbi I responded to you with them twice. I will attempt to find it now. Argh

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Just a little Morbid humor. He did not actually insinuate anything to that effect, to clarify.


I did not respond because I did not see them. Re-post them.

Yeah, repost the Dark pit debate. We haven't done that discussion yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Just a little Morbid humor. He did not actually insinuate anything to that effect, to clarify.

So.....this Twitter post did not happen?

 

[Morbi]

I've responded to 'Exhibit A' with about 9 other points which have fallen on deaf ear.

Yet B, C, and D are all quite, QUITE intriguing new pieces of information which I've not once heard you reference (and have in fact asked for). I will ponder.

I would be very interested to see your interpretation of Sakurai's fairly straight-forward quote that is almost impossible to misconstrue. You managed to do it in nine different ways? Color me intrigued.

So.....this Twitter post did not happen?

No, unfortunately not.

 

[Burruni]

Why must you place the burden on poor little, Gurgi?


No one... but Sakurai!


Exhibit B:

Spoiler

Exhibit D:

Antony Del Rio is a voice actor for Smash 4.

Exhibit B: Isabelle/Shizue is in the Villager artwork and Chrom in the Robin/Lucina artwork.
Exhibit D: Midna's VA works in Smash 4. Magnus's VA works in Smash 4. Chrom's VA works in Smash 4. Dark Pit, like the gender-flip alts, could simply have a different voice pack that is used for that costume.

 

[Xenorange]

I would be very interested to see your interpretation of Sakurai's fairly straight-forward quote that is almost impossible to misconstrue. You managed to do it in nine different ways? Color me intrigued.


No, unfortunately not.

To be fair that Sakurai quote is pretty vague. It could mean a lot of things.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would be very interested to see your interpretation of Sakurai's fairly straight-forward quote that is almost impossible to misconstrue. You managed to do it in nine different ways? Color me intrigued.


No, unfortunately not.

Misconstrue? No maam. I believe the color you intrigued refers to the colored interpretation you put on the words, mostly taking them to the interpretation which you see fit, which we have discussed before, which somehow interprets it that it obviously means Dark Pit and Dr Mario are back. A single point of which I have in fact brought up, which is that it is more likely that if it were retroactively applicable, it would more likely apply to a previous clone character, who was an alt, now being made back into a single character, such as Lucas.

 

[Morbi]

Misconstrue? No maam. I believe the color you intrigued refers to the colored interpretation you put on the words, mostly taking them to the interpretation which you see fit, which we have discussed before, which somehow interprets it that it obviously means Dark Pit and Dr Mario are back. A single point of which I have in fact brought up, which is that it is more likely that if it were retroactively applicable, it would more likely apply to a previous clone character, who was an alt, now being made back into a single character, such as Lucas.

Okay, stop beating around the bush and post your "interpretation" of the assertion. I am not going to lie, there is only one reasonable way to interpret the quote from my perspective...

 

[pupNapoleon]

Okay, stop beating around the bush and post your "interpretation" of the assertion. I am not going to lie, there is only one reasonable way to interpret the quote from my perspective...

I am in search. It was close to a week ago, and was my interpretation on all of Dark Pit, not just the quotation.
It is not simple to search through this thread! I am switching to my own posts, which I thought would be more dificult but may actually be easier.

This is unpleasant busy work

 

[Morbi]

I am in search. It was close to a week ago, and was my interpretation on all of Dark Pit, not just the quotation.
It is not simple to search through this thread! I am switching to my own posts, which I thought would be more dificult but may actually be easier.

This is unpleasant busy work

No offense, but I do not believe that your interpretation of Dark Pit is entirely relevant as the quote objectively proves that Dark Pit would be considered for a playable role. I am more interested in that little tidbit.

 

[pupNapoleon]

No offense, but I do not believe that your interpretation of Dark Pit is entirely relevant as the quote objectively proves that Dark Pit would be considered for a playable role. I am more interested in that little tidbit.

I'm not sure you understand what my interpretation of Dark Pit is, then.
Let's play the communication game; can you play back to me what you think my interpretation of him is?

(Though, not to be nitpicky, the quotation would actually prove objectively that, if anything, he was not considered for a playable role independently, he was made into one through the happenstance of an upgraded alt costume)

 

[Morbi]

I'm not sure you understand what my interpretation of Dark Pit is, then.
Let's play the communication game; can you play back to me what you think my interpretation of him is?

(Though, not to be nitpicky, the quotation would actually prove objectively that, if anything, he was not considered for a playable role independently, he was made into one through the happenstance of an upgraded alt costume)

I do not recall, that is the issue. I have argued with a lot of people regarding Dark Pit, so I am not entirely sure which points you brought up.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Oh boy more Dark Pit talk.....

 

[Morbi]

Oh boy more Dark Pit talk.....

I can feel your enthusiasm emanating through your keyboard! Dark Pit is always a great discussion point because so many people are adamant about his role. So it is fun to go over the redundant and circular arguments again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

 

[~Krystal~]

Sakurai's hand picked toadie, I know you're reading these boards, please tell your boss to confirm Dark Pit already. I'm beggin ya!

 

[Morbi]

Sakurai's hand picked toadie, I know you're reading these boards, please tell your boss to confirm Dark Pit already. I'm beggin ya!

I second this notion. It would be very appreciated to confirm Dark Pit so that Morbid is indeed correct on yet another speculation point. It is my hope that she may get her gloating out of the way prior to release.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Somewhat on the topic of Dark Pit -

Most people say that a character being shown without a proper reveal means that they can't be playable, yet a fair amount of others still think that Dark Pit has a high probability of being playable despite being shown beforehand. Various evidence gives decent enough proof towards the fact: Toon Link being a background element before receiving a proper reveal, Palutena's "trophy reveal," Mr. Game & Watch appearing at the end of Pac-Man's trailer, etc. So it's fair to say that it's wrong to dismiss a character as such.

The point I'm making is towards Rayman, a character that many completely dismiss due to him being shown as "nothing more than a trophy." Disregarding the fact that it's extremely odd for a third party to show up as nothing more than a trophy. Different things have shown up that could possibly point towards him being a playable character, mainly him having two separate trophies and a big name from Nintendo (who works in Partnerships) possibly slipping Rayman as he mentioned other playable characters.

I'd really like to hear more opinions on this, particularly from those who can really pick at these sorts of things.

/Absolutely nothing to do with Dark Pit.

 

[Niala]

Sakurai's hand picked toadie, I know you're reading these boards, please tell your boss to confirm Dark Pit already. I'm beggin ya!

Seconded.

I second this notion. It would be very appreciated to confirm Dark Pit so that Morbid is indeed correct on yet another speculation point. It is my hope that she may get her gloating out of the way prior to release.

Or, perhaps, thirded.

Also, not that it matters, but I didn't know you're a female.

 

[Scamper52596]

Somewhat on the topic of Dark Pit -

Most people say that a character being shown without a proper reveal means that they can't be playable, yet a fair amount of others still think that Dark Pit has a high probability of being playable despite being shown beforehand. Various evidence gives decent enough proof towards the fact: Toon Link being a background element before receiving a proper reveal, Palutena's "trophy reveal," Mr. Game & Watch appearing at the end of Pac-Man's trailer, etc. So it's fair to say that it's wrong to dismiss a character as such.

The point I'm making is towards Rayman, a character that many completely dismiss due to him being shown as "nothing more than a trophy." Disregarding the fact that it's extremely odd for a third party to show up as nothing more than a trophy. Different things have shown up that could possibly point towards him being a playable character, mainly him having two separate trophies and a big name from Nintendo (who works in Partnerships) possibly slipping Rayman as he mentioned other playable characters.

I'd really like to hear more opinions on this, particularly from those who can really pick at these sorts of things.

/Absolutely nothing to do with Dark Pit.

I guess I'll give you my opinion then. I think that the rule still holds to a certain degree. I think it's different for newcomers and veterans. You mention Toon Link and Game & Watch being shown off before a proper reveal. The problem is that they're veterans. A newcomer, to my knowledge, hasn't really been shown off prior to a proper reveal. I believe the exception is Lucina, but that was mainly for the Amiibo trailer. Not exactly Smash. I don't think Palutena's trophy reveal counts as it was not Palutena per se. I think newcomers might be teased if Sakurai decides he wants to throw the community a bone, but I don't think there has been enough to draw from in order to form a solid conclusion on the matter.

While I do agree that it's a little odd that Rayman has only been shown as a trophy despite being a third party, at the same time I really don't think that he'll end up being playable if that's the way they show him off. Especially for a character like Rayman. Rayman, being third party, would be one of those special characters that Sakurai would want to drum up a lot of hype for. When you show him off as having a role in Smash, though not playable, you lose some of the hype that would accumulate if you just showed him off prior in a stunning E3 trailer. If said E3 trailer happened, many people would all be surprised and super excited that Rayman is in Smash after seeing him first in a new trailer. Since those same people already associate him as being part of Smash, they would think, "Oh, Rayman is playable? I figured he might be after seeing that he already has a trophy in the game." I don't think those are the kind of reactions Nintendo is looking for when hyping up a newcomer. That's just my thought though.

EDIT: @ Morbi I don't even think you had enough time to read my post before you liked it. I guess I should still thank you for your support though.