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He's in a fresh new leak and they're desperate to be on a bandwagon that's actually right about something after the disaster that was "Monado Monday"?
They harbor a deep, enduring love for this classic character who is in no way whatsoever a ubiquitous hackneyed trope?
If we get another major returning villain to appear in other games, add that character instead. Vaati is still a great choice and does a lot for the history of the series. You add iconic villains, not one-off villains.
I'm not going to discount Ghirahim. I just don't want people to make up stupid excuses for why he's the most likely candidate to be playable, when he's not.
Impa is an unsafe pick too though considering how much her roles differ per installment, for all we know she might as well be a fat nanny again in the next Zelda. Zelda is a tricky franchise in general, the only characters guaranteed to appear consistently are Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, and Toon Link for his own games too I suppose, others have to rely on drawing a lucky straw like Shiek.
How the hell is Impa more unsafe that Ghirahim, a character who will most likely never appear again barring spinoffs (considering what happens in SS its kinda impossible unless they destroy canon to bring him back)? Impa is constantly appearing in many games. It doesn't matter what "form" she takes. Who cares? How does that make her "unsafe"? The fact is, she's a main Zelda character. If she's an old woman in the next game, they'll stick with her latest "younger" design, but she's STILL appearing. That's all that matters.
Weeman
@
Joe D.
Actually, the rumors about Zelda U having a new antagonist are false, it just said "new enemies" (aka, random enemies you see on the field, which every Zelda game has).Alright, let's talk about Sheik first and why she is in even though of her "one-shot" status. First and foremost, (spoiler alert) she's Zelda. That automatically gives her more merits for Smash. She was originally part of a gimmick. I don't believe she would have gotten in without Sakurai conceiving of such a gimmick. The Zelda franchise at the time of Melee's development only had a few games. How was Sakurai to know that Sheik wouldn't be used in future 3D Zelda games? By Twilight Princess, we all knew that supporting Zelda characters were usually limited to one or two Zelda games. That's why I believe we never got a newcomer from Twilight Princess, and why I don't believe we'll get one from Skyward Sword. In Brawl we got a TP stage and updated character models. I believe for Smash 4 we'll only get a SS stage and updated Zelda items. Ghirahim can only represent Skyward Sword, and not the Zelda franchise in general. If you notice, Smash characters that are chosen can represent their franchise. Wolf? The major rival to Star Fox. Diddy Kong? Has a big role in the DK series. King Dedede and Meta Knight? Also a big part of the Kirby franchise. Even in Smash 4 this is happening. Palutena, Rosalina, and Robin are good choices to represent their franchises because they're a big part of it. Ghirahim is not iconic enough to the Zelda franchise to warrant a slot. If I had the chance, I would honestly put money down on saying that I don't even think Ghirahim was considered for the roster. I haven't seen anybody bring this up yet, but I saw a few recent articles saying that it has already been confirmed that Zelda U will have a new antagonist. That to me just further drives in the fact that Ghirahim isn't important enough to Zelda to represent it. Ghirahim is just another Yuga, Zant, Skull Kid, and Agahnim. If he's the antagonist in at least three Zelda games someday, then I think he'll have a chance. If you still think that I'm just contradicting myself and Sheik still isn't important enough to the Zelda franchise to be in Smash, I'll give you a few more thoughts. Ocarina of Time is the most critically acclaimed game of all time. I think Nintendo is proud of that, and Sheik in Smash is a good way to represent that game. OoT has also been remade a couple times, and is currently being sold on a current gen gaming device. Skyward Sword isn't. At this point, Sheik is way more important to the Zelda franchise than Ghirahim is, and is more widely recognized. It makes me cringe whenever people think that a certain Zelda character should replace Sheik. Sheik definitely deserves her slot on the Smash roster. At this point, no one is going to make me believe that Ghirahim is on that roster until I see it. I'll gladly eat my words then. @
Sorry, I'll put that into practice in the future.
Woah woah, putting words in my mouth. I never said she was more unsafe than Ghirahim, I'm just saying that her roles vary a lot to the point where she might as well be an entirely different character. At this point there simply are no safe picks for a Zelda newcomer, well, except Tingle, but you know... eww.
Oh, I'm aware that there's no safe picks. The safest by far is probably Impa. No, I never thought Tingle would be playable simply because only Japan likes Tingle.
I meant in context of Sakurai picking relevant characters. I'm well aware that he's an AT, and I'm also well aware why he's likely never going to make the leap.I would say that Tingle's not very safe.
That's honestly what I lean towards too and why I think the trophy theory is a mere coincidence, I just don't see a Zelda newcomer happening atm because there are no really great choices for it imo.Oh, I'm aware that there's no safe picks. The safest by far is probably Impa. No, I never thought Tingle would be playable simply because only Japan likes Tingle.
This whole debate is why I think we might not get a Zelda newcomer.
Well, my words are delicious. I haven't eaten them until now.Alright, let's talk about Sheik first and why she is in even though of her "one-shot" status. First and foremost, (spoiler alert) she's Zelda. That automatically gives her more merits for Smash. She was originally part of a gimmick. I don't believe she would have gotten in without Sakurai conceiving of such a gimmick. The Zelda franchise at the time of Melee's development only had a few games. How was Sakurai to know that Sheik wouldn't be used in future 3D Zelda games? By Twilight Princess, we all knew that supporting Zelda characters were usually limited to one or two Zelda games. That's why I believe we never got a newcomer from Twilight Princess, and why I don't believe we'll get one from Skyward Sword.
In Brawl we got a TP stage and updated character models. I believe for Smash 4 we'll only get a SS stage and updated Zelda items. Ghirahim can only represent Skyward Sword, and not the Zelda franchise in general. If you notice, Smash characters that are chosen can represent their franchise. Wolf? The major rival to Star Fox. Diddy Kong? Has a big role in the DK series. King Dedede and Meta Knight? Also a big part of the Kirby franchise. Even in Smash 4 this is happening. Palutena, Rosalina, and Robin are good choices to represent their franchises because they're a big part of it. Ghirahim is not iconic enough to the Zelda franchise to warrant a slot. If I had the chance, I would honestly put money down on saying that I don't even think Ghirahim was considered for the roster. I haven't seen anybody bring this up yet, but I saw a few recent articles saying that it has already been confirmed that Zelda U will have a new antagonist. That to me just further drives in the fact that Ghirahim isn't important enough to Zelda to represent it. Ghirahim is just another Yuga, Zant, Skull Kid, and Agahnim. If he's the antagonist in at least three Zelda games someday, then I think he'll have a chance.
If you still think that I'm just contradicting myself and Sheik still isn't important enough to the Zelda franchise to be in Smash, I'll give you a few more thoughts. Ocarina of Time is the most critically acclaimed game of all time. I think Nintendo is proud of that, and Sheik in Smash is a good way to represent that game. OoT has also been remade a couple times, and is currently being sold on a current gen gaming device. Skyward Sword isn't. At this point, Sheik is way more important to the Zelda franchise than Ghirahim is, and is more widely recognized. It makes me cringe whenever people think that a certain Zelda character should replace Sheik. Sheik definitely deserves her slot on the Smash roster. At this point, no one is going to make me believe that Ghirahim is on that roster until I see it. I'll gladly eat my words then. @
I agree about Sheik and that she deserves to still be on the roster, as for the "representing the franchise" thing, well i also kind of agree, though at this point almost no one but the 3 triforce weilders can do that. I think Ghirahim is more prominent and memorable than those guys too (Vaati, Zant, etc...), but i guess that's up to everyone, so yeah i'm not saying Ghirahim's chances are high, but i don't think he's the least likely either (I mean there's Groose and Epona for thatAlright, let's talk about Sheik first and why she is in even though of her "one-shot" status. First and foremost, (spoiler alert) she's Zelda. That automatically gives her more merits for Smash. She was originally part of a gimmick. I don't believe she would have gotten in without Sakurai conceiving of such a gimmick. The Zelda franchise at the time of Melee's development only had a few games. How was Sakurai to know that Sheik wouldn't be used in future 3D Zelda games? By Twilight Princess, we all knew that supporting Zelda characters were usually limited to one or two Zelda games. That's why I believe we never got a newcomer from Twilight Princess, and why I don't believe we'll get one from Skyward Sword. In Brawl we got a TP stage and updated character models. I believe for Smash 4 we'll only get a SS stage and updated Zelda items. Ghirahim can only represent Skyward Sword, and not the Zelda franchise in general. If you notice, Smash characters that are chosen can represent their franchise. Wolf? The major rival to Star Fox. Diddy Kong? Has a big role in the DK series. King Dedede and Meta Knight? Also a big part of the Kirby franchise. Even in Smash 4 this is happening. Palutena, Rosalina, and Robin are good choices to represent their franchises because they're a big part of it. Ghirahim is not iconic enough to the Zelda franchise to warrant a slot. If I had the chance, I would honestly put money down on saying that I don't even think Ghirahim was considered for the roster. I haven't seen anybody bring this up yet, but I saw a few recent articles saying that it has already been confirmed that Zelda U will have a new antagonist. That to me just further drives in the fact that Ghirahim isn't important enough to Zelda to represent it. Ghirahim is just another Yuga, Zant, Skull Kid, and Agahnim. If he's the antagonist in at least three Zelda games someday, then I think he'll have a chance. If you still think that I'm just contradicting myself and Sheik still isn't important enough to the Zelda franchise to be in Smash, I'll give you a few more thoughts. Ocarina of Time is the most critically acclaimed game of all time. I think Nintendo is proud of that, and Sheik in Smash is a good way to represent that game. OoT has also been remade a couple times, and is currently being sold on a current gen gaming device. Skyward Sword isn't. At this point, Sheik is way more important to the Zelda franchise than Ghirahim is, and is more widely recognized. It makes me cringe whenever people think that a certain Zelda character should replace Sheik. Sheik definitely deserves her slot on the Smash roster. At this point, no one is going to make me believe that Ghirahim is on that roster until I see it. I'll gladly eat my words then. @
).
Yes,
I should mention that when I said I think Ghirahim is the least likely Zelda newcomer, I meant out of the practical Zelda characters that might be considered for Smash. That in my mind being Ganon, Toon Zelda, Tetra, Impa, Vaati, and Ghirahim. People joke about Groose and Epona being added, but nobody really believes that they were considered. You might be right when you say that because we already have the essential Zelda characters already, maybe the less prominent Zelda characters will be considered, but I doubt it. What I mean is that I don't think Ghirahim would be considered before the characters with bigger roles in the franchise. I could be wrong, but nothing to me stands out against my opinion as of yet. We'll just have to see what happens though.I agree about Sheik and that she deserves to still be on the roster, as for the "representing the franchise" thing, well i also kind of agree, though at this point almost no one but the 3 triforce weilders can do that. I think Ghirahim is more prominent and memorable than those guys too (Vaati, Zant, etc...), but i guess that's up to everyone, so yeah i'm not saying Ghirahim's chances are high, but i don't think he's the least likely either (I mean there's Groose and Epona for that
There's also the Trophy theory but i guess that could point out at other Zelda characters.
The only other reason i personally have is that Sakurai seems to be going for more recent appearances for characters now, even Little Mac who has his design based on the 2009 remake, and of course Palutena being based on her Uprising design, i know it doesn't mean much, but i think it can happen.
Another thing is that in the end it's kinda hard to know what Sakurai might choose for characters, i mean in the end if he thinks a character would be good for Smash he'll probably add it, look at Robin, whom he chose for having more unique abilities over Chrom, my point is that i don't think any of this arguments about appearances and importance might hold much weight, especially for a franchise who already has the characters that it NEEDS (3 triforce weilders), if Sakurai considred Ghirahim, wich he probably did considering how much he is representing Skyward Sword, and thought he had potential, then he would have added him, and in the end i think that's what matters. (So in a way even Groose could be added).
I honestly believe that Groose was considered at one point; perhaps he was demoted to an assist trophy?
Cherche confirmed?
Well, yeah, he made Uprising. He's familiar with that content and understands it better than anyone, so it's easier for him to work with that than content made by someone else, which he has to interpret and hope that he gets right.
Just to add onto this, because few people know this tidbit of trivia: Sheik was actually MEANT to be in Twilight Princess and had a full model made but was cut for unknown reasons. It is actually that unused design that made it into Brawl. Considering this, I feel that Sheik is likely to have a role or two still in the series besides OoT.Alright, let's talk about Sheik first and why she is in even though of her "one-shot" status. First and foremost, (spoiler alert) she's Zelda. That automatically gives her more merits for Smash. She was originally part of a gimmick. I don't believe she would have gotten in without Sakurai conceiving of such a gimmick. The Zelda franchise at the time of Melee's development only had a few games. How was Sakurai to know that Sheik wouldn't be used in future 3D Zelda games? By Twilight Princess, we all knew that supporting Zelda characters were usually limited to one or two Zelda games. That's why I believe we never got a newcomer from Twilight Princess, and why I don't believe we'll get one from Skyward Sword.
Ghirahim can only represent Skyward Sword, and not the Zelda franchise in general. If you notice, Smash characters that are chosen can represent their franchise. Wolf? The major rival to Star Fox. Diddy Kong? Has a big role in the DK series. King Dedede and Meta Knight? Also a big part of the Kirby franchise. Even in Smash 4 this is happening. Palutena, Rosalina, and Robin are good choices to represent their franchises because they're a big part of it. Ghirahim is just another Yuga, Zant, Skull Kid, and Agahnim. If he's the antagonist in at least three Zelda games someday, then I think he'll have a chance.
If you still think that I'm just contradicting myself and Sheik still isn't important enough to the Zelda franchise to be in Smash, I'll give you a few more thoughts. Ocarina of Time is the most critically acclaimed game of all time. I think Nintendo is proud of that, and Sheik in Smash is a good way to represent that game. OoT has also been remade a couple times, and is currently being sold on a current gen gaming device. At this point, Sheik is way more important to the Zelda franchise than Ghirahim is, and is more widely recognized. @
It's ok for you because you played the DS game. Imagine if DK got 8 reps and Sakurai made a story mode where the DK reps got most of the screentime. I'd be cool with it personally because DK is my favourite franchise atm, but the fanbase as a whole wouldn't be happy because that''s a massive over-repping of a series. It's frustrating when a series you don't like gets over-repped, because that's content that could've been put toward something that you like, or towards another series that deserved it.
I agree, which is why Dark Pit is a great choice.
I do not mind the bias either as it is prevalent throughout the ENTIRE series, game and roster. I wonder why that could be... oh, I just remembered, it is because there is only one creative director!
Soon to be three... soon to be three. However, I have to admit, Kid Icarus is getting a lot of representation through other mediums: items, stages, smash-run enemies, etc.
Bandanna Dee?
Putting Pit in Brawl was a marketing ploy so that he could make a KI game. He put Pit in Smash so that his KI game would sell, as Smash makes characters popular (eg. FE reps being put in Melee to market FE to the western audience, which hadn't got FE yet).
