Character Discussion Thread

[Xzsmmc]

Not going to lie, I am extremely opposed to to Dark Pit. Partially because I feel he's unnecessary, but also because he is literally Pit with a different color scheme. For as much as I dislike Toon Link being a clone despite there being dozens of ways to differentiate him, he at least looks different from regular Link. If you've really gotta have three KI characters, Medusa or Hades brings more to the table imo.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

Putting Pit in Brawl was a marketing ploy so that he could make a KI game. He put Pit in Smash so that his KI game would sell, as Smash makes characters popular (eg. FE reps being put in Melee to market FE to the western audience, which hadn't got FE yet).

It wasn't about giving fans what they wanted, because no one asked for Pit. It was about making money, at the expense of a potential character that people actually wanted.

That's some real revisionist history there, Pit was a highly requested character for smashbros.

 

[Joe D.]

To have Pit and Dark Pit is to have a Nintendo re-creation of Cole and Evil Cole...

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

accidental double post.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, there's always the option of turning Dark Pit into a parody of clone characters, like Fukua.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Putting Pit in Brawl was a marketing ploy so that he could make a KI game. He put Pit in Smash so that his KI game would sell, as Smash makes characters popular (eg. FE reps being put in Melee to market FE to the western audience, which hadn't got FE yet).

It wasn't about giving fans what they wanted, because no one asked for Pit. It was about making money, at the expense of a potential character that people actually wanted.

The difference between KI and other series is that other series are in Smash because they're popular. KI is popular now because of Smash (although it's overall sales still pale in comparison to like, everything else). That's why people get annoyed when it gets so much rep, because it doesn't deserve it and it doesn't appeal to the wider audience.

And of course it's bias. KI has 3 oroginal games with basically a decade between each one. If every series of a similar scale or bigger had its core characters represented in Smash, the roster would probably need to have over 100 slots. The fact that KI gets any rep at all over other franchises is just down to bias.

Look, I'm a huge DK fan and I couldn't give two ****s about Kid Icarus, but that's pure BS right there. Kid Icarus was added to Brawl due to being a highly requested classic character to bring back. Kid Icarus was NOT AT ALL planned when Brawl was in development. In fact, in early development the gameplay they conceptualized for Kid Icarus: Uprising was originally going to be a new Star Fox game, but they decided it wouldn't fit Star Fox, so they made it Kid Icarus instead.

Now, Kid Icarus having massive numbers of enemies? Yeah, that's definitely a bit biased and its annoying. But Kid Icarus WAS highly requested, and Uprising was NOT planned in advance. Get the facts straight before you make such claims.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Putting Pit in Brawl was a marketing ploy so that he could make a KI game. He put Pit in Smash so that his KI game would sell, as Smash makes characters popular (eg. FE reps being put in Melee to market FE to the western audience, which hadn't got FE yet).

I can't wait for Ice climbers and Game & Watch's reboot. And the R.O.B remake.

It wasn't about giving fans what they wanted, because no one asked for Pit. It was about making money, at the expense of a potential character that people actually wanted.

The difference between KI and other series is that other series are in Smash because they're popular. KI is popular now because of Smash (although it's overall sales still pale in comparison to like, everything else). That's why people get annoyed when it gets so much rep, because it doesn't deserve it and it doesn't appeal to the wider audience.

You should really play the game. You'll see why we like it and want it given items, an assist trophy and characters as well.

And of course it's bias. KI has 3 oroginal games with basically a decade between each one. If every series of a similar scale or bigger had its core characters represented in Smash, the roster would probably need to have over 100 slots. The fact that KI gets any rep at all over other franchises is just down to bias.

You made up that rule... no one argued for that scale except for you. You are arguing with yourself, man.

 

[Dre89]

Oh, I can't wait for the Game and Watch and Ice climber remakes then.

Did I say they were marketing ploys?

You sure hate a game you haven't played. Maybe you should play it and you'll see why we like it and now want it given items, an assist trophy, and a character.

I don't have anything against the game, I just have an issue with the proportion of rep it's getting in Smash. Also, this 'we' you're talking about is a very small portion of the larger Nintendo fanbase. That's the problem, KI is getting a much larger proportion of rep than any other franshise of its scale would get purely because of developer bias.

That's you making up your own rules. No one stated their was this rule of scale except for you... So you are aruging with yourself, man.

No, other series that have a similar number of games and overall sales as KI get very little rep in Smash, if any, because they're not iconic and don't appeal to the wider audience. KI is just getting more rep due to bias.

 

[GunGunW]

Shadow Mario might work as his own character...

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Did I say they were marketing ploys?





I don't have anything against the game, I just have an issue with the proportion of rep it's getting in Smash. Also, this 'we' you're talking about is a very small portion of the larger Nintendo fanbase. That's the problem, KI is getting a much larger proportion of rep than any other franshise of its scale will get purely because of developer bias.



No, other series that have a similar number of games and overall sales as KI get very little rep in Smash, if any, because they're not iconic and don't appeal to the wider audience. KI is just getting more rep due to bias.

They are retro's just like Pit. That's why Pit was in the game. Bringing back a retro. Not, the marketing that you made up.

You are over exaggerating how much it's getting repped.

It's one new character.
An alternate costume or stage hazard. Or for Mr. Altruism, (a clone )
A stage on each system (Just like every other series.)
Some items. (Didn't have any in brawl)
Assist trophy (Never had one in brawl.)
And smash run enemies. ( Shown in a non-complete E3 demo. )

Not very much. Most series are getting the same treatment. Nothing to scream bias about.

 

[Morbi]

Not going to lie, I am extremely opposed to to Dark Pit. Partially because I feel he's unnecessary, but also because he is literally Pit with a different color scheme. For as much as I dislike Toon Link being a clone despite there being dozens of ways to differentiate him, he at least looks different from regular Link. If you've really gotta have three KI characters, Medusa or Hades brings more to the table imo.

So if Dark Pit had a different hair style (might I suggest a pompadour), he would be fine as he would no longer be reminiscent of Pit?

 

[~Krystal~]

After seeing the love Kid Icarus is getting, a Paper Mario stage is not enough. I fully expect to have my Mario variant, an AT, and 5 items from a franchise that eclipses KI by a mile.

It's only fair. =o)

 

[Dre89]

They are retro's just like Pit. That's why Pit was in the game. Bringing back a retro. Not, the marketing that you made up.

You are over exaggerating how much it's getting repped.

It's one new character.
An alternate costume or stage hazard. Or for Mr. Altruism, (a clone )
A stage on each system (Just like every other series.)
Some items. (Didn't have any in brawl)
Assist trophy (Never had one in brawl.)
And smash run enemies. ( Shown in a non-complete E3 demo. )

Not very much. Most series are getting the same treatment. Nothing to scream bias about.

It's already two characters plus a potential third. KI got a ton of enemies in the game, moreso than a lot of other series.

2 characters is already way too much rep for how insignificant the KI series is in the broader picture of Nintendo. There's a good chance it'll get more rep than Metroid lol. I mean, when you step out of the Smash circle, no one thinks of KI as one of the pivotal Nintendo franchises with iconic characters and gameplay elements.

 

[JaidynReiman]

They are retro's just like Pit. That's why Pit was in the game. Bringing back a retro. Not, the marketing that you made up.

You are over exaggerating how much it's getting repped.

It's one new character.
An alternate costume or stage hazard. Or for Mr. Altruism, (a clone )
A stage on each system (Just like every other series.)
Some items. (Didn't have any in brawl)
Assist trophy (Never had one in brawl.)
And smash run enemies. ( Shown in a non-complete E3 demo. )

Not very much. Most series are getting the same treatment. Nothing to scream bias about.

The only issue I have is how many Smash Run enemies are dragged from Uprising. DK could use a lot more enemies, but its possible there are a ton more in the game we don't know about.

 

[Morbi]

After seeing the love Kid Icarus is getting, a Paper Mario stage is not enough. I fully expect to have my Mario variant, an AT, and 5 items from a franchise that eclipses KI by a mile.

It's only fair. =o)

If only Sakurai remade/revived/developed Paper Mario instead of Kid Icarus...

Spoiler

But he did not!

 

[~Krystal~]

If only Sakurai remade Paper Mario instead of Kid Icarus...

Spoiler

But he did not!

Paper Mario didn't need a resurrection or... a "divine intervention."

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

You guys are complaining about the smash run enemies from the e-3 demo?

Monsters are probably limited to prevent spoilers. And even if that was the ratio of final game somehow, definitely doesn't mean that KI is over repped, based on the smash run enemies...

 

[Dre89]

You guys are complaining about the smash run enemies from the e-3 demo?

Monsters are probably limited to prevent spoilers. And even if that was the ratio of final game somehow, definitely doesn't mean that KI is over repped, based on the smash run enemies...

I still think that having two characters is too much rep for how insignificant the franchise is in the bigger picture. I think that the development time that went into Palutena would've been better spent on a popular iconic character (plenty won't get in the game). Or at least repping one of tthe countless other small-scale franchises that won't get any character representation because they didn't have a game developed by Sakurai.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really hate all this talk about franchises being over/under represented. Personally, I think the characters should get in on their own strengths, (how popular the character is, how significant the character is to the game/series they are from and moveset potential.) rather than just adding characters just for the sake of another character to a popular franchise.

You would be all right with this game having fifteen Pokemon and ten Mario characters?
I wonder...
as, you know, it could.
I would personally love to see Boo in this game! I doubt it would happen ever, but King Boo could become enough of a character if Luigi's Mansion releases enough games.

Because KI didn't have items, assist trophies, and multiple characters in the previous game...

It's getting them now because the series has been resurrected. There isn't any bias, just seems like it because he is getting KI caught up with items and assist trophies, which didn't exist in Brawl.

Palutena is a great character and it's fine for KI to have two. Dark Pit will be an alternate or a clone with low development time.

So, nothing actually of bias for KI.

I'm not sure how this doesn't confirm bias, exactly...

On the plus side, I will likely be playing Uprising soon. And I will write a lengthy response at said time to @ Morbi about the quality of the characterization of Dark Pit, honestly, from a literary critics point of view, as well as for his role in the game.
He would score much more highly if they could have just given him a damn name. I won't add in my starting bias, but it's pretty difficult to take a character seriously when their entire identity is based not only on another character, but such a weak adjective.

 

[Nat Perry]

It's already two characters plus a potential third. KI got a ton of enemies in the game, moreso than a lot of other series.

2 characters is already way too much rep for how insignificant the KI series is in the broader picture of Nintendo. There's a good chance it'll get more rep than Metroid lol. I mean, when you step out of the Smash circle, no one thinks of KI as one of the pivotal Nintendo franchises with iconic characters and gameplay elements.

It's nice to have some representation from the series, given the fact that it's been dormant for years. I don't know how pivotal the franchise was for Nintendo. The original game is a "cult classic," and it's infamous for its difficulty level. Uprising was a huge title, and a fun one at that.

As for Metroid, Samus and Metroid are really the only viable reps for the series. That's kind of part of the Metroid series, it's just Samus on her own, and most people that Samus loves dies, and the one who keeps coming back wants to kill her (Ridley).

I think it's fine. Kid Icarus doesn't have to be the biggest, most pivotal franchise ever for it to get rampant representation. Combine the original game's notoriety, its recent reboot (and all that went into that game), and the fact that Sakurai directed it, and you can see why it's getting represented in the game the way it is.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

I still think that having two characters is too much rep for how insignificant the franchise is in the bigger picture. I think that the development time that went into Palutena would've been better spent on a popular iconic character (plenty won't get in the game). Or at least repping one of tthe countless other small-scale franchises that won't get any character representation because they didn't have a game developed by Sakurai.

But Palutena is a popular character, who was one of the more requested characters for Smash 4 and I would argue that now that the Villager is in the game we have all the "Iconic" Nintendo characters, (I could see an argument for Ridley but that's about it.) Although I do agree that I would like to see more "Unrepresented" franchises get a character.

 

[Sebz]

I still think that having two characters is too much rep for how insignificant the franchise is in the bigger picture. I think that the development time that went into Palutena would've been better spent on a popular iconic character (plenty won't get in the game). Or at least repping one of tthe countless other small-scale franchises that won't get any character representation because they didn't have a game developed by Sakurai.

People used to say the same thing about Roy and Marth in Melee:
"WHO?"
"THIS FRANCHISE DOESN'T DESERVE ONE REP, LET ALONE TWO"
"THIS SERIES WILL GO NOWHERE"

You accuse everybody else of not looking at the bigger picture, when the biggest picture includes what Nintendo decides to do moving forward. They could decide to expand upon Kid Icarus and turn it into a hit like Fire Emblem. And besides, DK has possible newcomers as well, and so do all other franchises.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

But Palutena is a popular character, who was one of the more requested characters for Smash 4 and I would argue that now that the Villager is in the game we have all the "Iconic" Nintendo characters, (I could see an argument for Ridley but that's about it.) Although I do agree that I would like to see more "Unrepresented" franchises get a character.

mother...? or do you want chibi robo and ray 1 playable?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Aside from Sakurai's potential bias, Palutena still had quite the amount of popularity. She probably would have gotten in anyway. I of course think it's a waste of time to **** on a character or why they got in. They're already in the game.

The argument that Palutena might have taken the slot of another character is horse crap as well, because that's not how it works. Sakurai plans everybody and has back ups, but it's not a matter of Palutena taking Ridley's spot, or K.Rool or Mewtwo. The decisions aren't made like that.

I'm not saying you can't like a character, but don't make it seem like said character didn't have merits. Palutena was expected by most from the start.

 

[Nat Perry]

A playable Condor from Ice Climber would be a good example of poor representation. Or an alternate Game & Watch character.

I do find it funny how the Kid Icarus series has almost as many Smash Run characters as the Mario series does.

 

[Cobalsh]

Think about it...


Around this time September, Japan will have received SSB4, and everything will be leaked. Speculation will come to an abrupt stop until DLC is announced, and even then the Boards won't thrive as much as they did during the main game. This place will be a mostly empty shell, lot's of newer members will leave and forget this place for another five years, and then, at E3 2019, a trailer for Super Smash Bros. New will appear, and the boards will thrive again.


This place is the most hostile ecosystem ever.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

A playable Condor from Ice Climber would be a good example of poor representation. Or an alternate Game & Watch character.

I do find it funny how the Kid Icarus series has almost as many Smash Run characters as the Mario series does.

Uprising was a great game. plus mario is kinda overrated

 

[Nat Perry]

Uprising was a great game. plus mario is kinda overrated

Eh, I'd say Mario is more oversaturated than overrated. Most games in the main Mario series are great, and deservedly thought of as so. I mean, New Super Mario Bros. Wii wasn't so hot, and I skipped out on NSMB2/NSMBU/NSLU...Mario Party has gone down the drain since the 8th installment...but other than that the Mario series kicks buttocks. Galaxy was one of the best games I've ever played, along with Super Mario World. And Mario Kart has always been excellent. Not to mention both of the RPG series have been mostly impressive and incredibly memorable, save for Paper Mario Sticker Star.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

mother...? or do you want chibi robo and ray 1 playable?

I just think the More franchises that can get a rep the better because Smash Bros is a good way of raising awareness for smaller franchises. Think about how obscure the Mother series would be if it wasn't for Ness being in Smash, the same with Fire Emblem.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Think about it...


Around this time September, Japan will have received SSB4, and everything will be leaked. Speculation will come to an abrupt stop until DLC is announced, and even then the Boards won't thrive as much as they did during the main game. This place will be a mostly empty shell, lot's of newer members will leave and forget this place for another five years, and then, at E3 2019, a trailer for Super Smash Bros. New will appear, and the boards will thrive again.


This place is the most hostile ecosystem ever.

The food is new content; it gets most hostile when we see this nourishment approaching, we get savage fighting for it, and then calculate how to gain it next time. When it vanishes, so do we.

 

[ihskeyp]

I loved uprising, and I love dark pitt, but I don't think he will be his own character.
The difference between him and Lucina is that Lucina is the most popular Awakening character, and is very important in Fire Emblem.
Dark Pit really isn't that popular, and is based off of a color palette Pit had in Brawl, and he is important to uprising but not nearly as important as Lucina is to awakening. And in his own game, he plays the same as Pit does.
He will probably be an alt costume for the last reason I stated. Dark Pit uses all the same weapons and powers as Pit (I think he may have had one different power.. Not sure, but even then only one) he is perfect alt costume material since they have the same design.
Please excuse any grammatical issues, I'm using a phone.

 

[Dre89]

People used to say the same thing about Roy and Marth in Melee:
"WHO?"
"THIS FRANCHISE DOESN'T DESERVE ONE REP, LET ALONE TWO"
"THIS SERIES WILL GO NOWHERE"

You accuse everybody else of not looking at the bigger picture, when the biggest picture includes what Nintendo decides to do moving forward. They could decide to expand upon Kid Icarus and turn it into a hit like Fire Emblem. And besides, DK has possible newcomers as well, and so do all other franchises.

Smash was marketed as a fanservice game where you get to play your favourite iconic Nintendo characters. That's what the majority of people play the game for. If a series is iconic and hugely popular, it should be in Smash. It shouldn't be about using Smash to make a series iconic and hugely popular. Every reverse-engineered character or piece of content comes at the expense of already-popular characters of content. It comes at the expense of enjoyment for the people who want to play as Nintendo icons (people like me), in exchange for making money elsewhere (people who will buy games from franchises marketed in Smash eg. KI).

Let me give you an example of how overrepping insignificant franchises like KI affects fans of other franchises. I for example, really want Dixie in the game. Person A really wants K. Rool. B wants Mewtwo, C wants Paper Mario, D wants Ridley etc. Not popular iconic character will get into this game. Thing is, had they not spent time on someone like Palutena, someone that is universally popular might have got in that otherwise. So if Dixie doesn't get in as a playable character, there is a chance that they would have had the time to put her in had they not developed Palutena. This isn't about me getting my way, it's about giving proportionate representation.

 

[Sebz]

Think about it...


Around this time September, Japan will have received SSB4, and everything will be leaked. Speculation will come to an abrupt stop until DLC is announced, and even then the Boards won't thrive as much as they did during the main game. This place will be a mostly empty shell, lot's of newer members will leave and forget this place for another five years, and then, at E3 2019, a trailer for Super Smash Bros. New will appear, and the boards will thrive again.


This place is the most hostile ecosystem ever.

You forgot some fun stages:
-Roster is revealed. Some people rage because the character THEY wanted didn't make it.
-Roster is revealed. Some people boast about how the character THEY wanted made it.
-Datamining reveals unfinished fighters.
-Unfinished fighters fuel DLC discussion/ make people rage that X character wasn't finished.
-After the 3ds version release, Sakurai will announce a Wii U exclusive mode: People get hype/ People rage
-People clamor for the inclusion of more characters on the Wii U version even though its been stated that the rosters will be the same.
-Sakurai backtracks on this statement and adds: "The roster on the 3ds will be the same as the Wii U roster... after you buy DLC, which comes included in the Wii U version"
-DLC is controversial and (you probably guessed it) people get hype/ people rage.

 

[Nat Perry]

I think that SSB4's current roster, while adding in all the rest of the unconfirmed Brawl characters, would have all the characters it "needs." The only "need" I see would be for K. Rool to make it in, but that is just me.

I was but a wee little infant when DKC 2 released, is Dixie Kong really that iconic? More than K. Rool?

 

[Spinosaurus]

They could decide to expand upon Kid Icarus and turn it into a hit like Fire Emblem.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo WOULDN'T want Kid Icarus to be anywhere near Fire Emblem's "success" lol

 

[ihskeyp]

I think that SSB4's current roster, while adding in all the rest of the unconfirmed Brawl characters, would have all the characters it "needs." The only "need" I see would be for K. Rool to make it in, but that is just me.

I was but a wee little infant when DKC 2 released, is Dixie Kong really that iconic? More than K. Rool?

Dixie is very iconic, in my opinion. Dk and Diddy without Dixie makes me sad, because DKC 2 was my favorite game as a kid, and Dixie was my favorite, then she got her own game that I played the crap out if, and she's still a big part of the series to this day (unlike k rool)

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

Eh, I'd say Mario is more oversaturated than overrated. Most games in the main Mario series are great, and deservedly thought of as so. I mean, New Super Mario Bros. Wii wasn't so hot, and I skipped out on NSMB2/NSMBU/NSLU...Mario Party has gone down the drain since the 8th installment...but other than that the Mario series kicks buttocks. Galaxy was one of the best games I've ever played, along with Super Mario World. And Mario Kart has always been excellent. Not to mention both of the RPG series have been mostly impressive and incredibly memorable, save for Paper Mario Sticker Star.

Buuut... there are always the most amount of characters for mario and it is the most recognized nintendo character. even solid snake thinks so in marios codec call!

 

[Nat Perry]

Buuut... there are always the most amount of characters for mario and it is the most recognized nintendo character. even solid snake thinks so in marios codec call!

Do you mean "over-represented" as opposed to "overrated?" Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise by far, it's proper for it to have a ton of representation in the game.

 

[Morbi]

I think that SSB4's current roster, while adding in all the rest of the unconfirmed Brawl characters, would have all the characters it "needs." The only "need" I see would be for K. Rool to make it in, but that is just me.

I was but a wee little infant when DKC 2 released, is Dixie Kong really that iconic? More than K. Rool?

The only "needs" I see are: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Pikachu, Kirby and Fox (perhaps Yoshi... I am not convinced).

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

Do you mean "over-represented" as opposed to "overrated?" Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise by far, it's proper for it to have a ton of representation in the game.

I guess...

I'm pretty sure Nintendo WOULDN'T want Kid Icarus to be anywhere near Fire Emblem's "success" lol

Fire Emblem dominates! awakening was amazing!