Character Discussion Thread

[pupNapoleon]

Some of my thoughts!

• Lucina most certainly confirmed that the clones from past games are likely to come back. I believe Sakurai was inclined to make them alt characters prior, with different names and voices, as his quotation confirmed. We have these alternate forms, customizable moves, and a "limited CSS" *insert that ugly face here*, so why wouldn't he? I believe Lucina shows that the characters he may have once considered for dual skins have been taken apart again and separated if they once had separate properties (and are worthy to continue have separate properties).
• I believe Kirby will have 12 unique abilities too. It makes complete sense for his character as well, whereas it actually makes less sense to have him use altered versions of his powered up moves (as it represents his games poorly to alter the power ups, yet giving him variations reflects his ability to have many variations more. The difference for him between a slow sideways fireball and a big sideways fireball could literally just be a graphic change to make the big fireball a firecracker, and that makes it a different power up, and a different ability. This befits Kirby moreso. So far we have seen Kirby use moves he otherwise couldn't, in the quick direct, which do not really make sense as 'alterations,' and thusly the 12 fully different moves... makes sense for him.
• I'm bummed I wrote a massive writeup describing in detail how much merit Sceptile has as a character, only for it to be completely ignored. I will take that to mean the entire forum is in agreement that he is a very likely candidate for the roster *insert that ugly face here again!*

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I can still see Lucas getting cut for reasons outside of the fact that he was a clone.

 

[KageJuin]

I can still see Lucas getting cut for reasons outside of the fact that he was a clone.

what reasons?

 

[Kenith]

I can still see Lucas getting cut for reasons outside of the fact that he was a clone.

You mean reasons like Mother not needing two characters or his game being Japan-exclusive?
Or, in other words, things that didn't stop him from getting into Brawl?

 

[Spinosaurus]

what reasons?

Protagonist from a Japanese-exclusive game that isn't even well received in Japan.

 

[KageJuin]

Protagonist from a Japanese-exclusive game that isn't even well received in Japan.

You mean reasons like Mother not needing two characters or his game being Japan-exclusive?
Or, in other words, things that didn't stop him from getting into Brawl?

 

[Spinosaurus]

.

Didn't stop Roy from being cut. Another protagonist from a Japanese exclusive game that isn't even well received in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I think what her reveal did was show us that Sakurai wouldn't reject a character simply for being a clone. Toon Link did that somewhat, but not entirely, but after Lucina it's hard to use 'clone' as a reason to cut Wolf or Lucas, and that was one of the biggest cases against them.

That still has no bearings on any character's chances.

Lucina wouldn't have been a character in the first place if it weren't for a fluke.

Aside from that, the "clone" excuse affects Falco more than it affects Wolf, and Lucas has a much bigger issue that I've explained in detail quite a while back.

 

[Kenith]

Didn't stop Roy from being cut. Another protagonist from a Japanese exclusive game that isn't even well received in Japan.

No one knows why Roy was cut.
The fact he has no content in the game indicates he was planned to return.

Besides that, Lucas differentiates himself from Ness way more than Roy did Marth.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Mr. Sakurai disappointed me.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I sure can't wait to home run the targets.

In other news, they're running out of ideas.

Who was it that said we were getting the Ice Climbers?

 

[Kenith]

I sure can't wait to home run the targets.
In other news, they're running out of ideas.
Who was it that said we were getting the Ice Climbers?

*slowly raises hand, then looks over to @The Light Music Club, gestures to also raise hand*

In all seriousness, I didn't expect a character reveal (I never do) but I expected something new, so there's that.

 

[Scamper52596]

*slowly raises hand, then looks over to @The Light Music Club, gestures to also raise hand*

In all seriousness, I didn't expect a character reveal (I never do) but I expected something new, so there's that.

Nice save.

 

[JamesDNaux]

*slowly raises hand, then looks over to @The Light Music Club, gestures to also raise hand*

In all seriousness, I didn't expect a character reveal (I never do) but I expected something new, so there's that.

But it isn't new, it's two old modes slapped together in a half-arsed excuse of a mode.


Well I won't be around for a while after tonight, I wonder if we'll get a reveal of any sort while I'm gone.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I also am looking forward to IC's today!
Yet as the game draws closer it is hard not to expect more and more content.

Maybe we will be blessed with a full out newcomer!!
Oh how I would not sleep, what glorious hallucinations come from such a forgone slumber!

Home run contest.

Goodnight.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean reasons like Mother not needing two characters or his game being Japan-exclusive?
Or, in other words, things that didn't stop him from getting into Brawl?

*sigh*
You were around when I made the case about Lucas.

Sakurai claimed in Brawl's development that due to Smash being an internationally released series that it was "difficult" to include characters exclusive to the Japanese region though noted that he was not entirely opposed to it due to the success of Marth and Roy in Melee.
Being Japan-exclusive almost cost them being in international releases of Melee, and if it weren't for the fact they became popular with international fans during localization, they would have been axed.

When the roster for Brawl was "finalized" July 7th, 2005, Mother 3 hadn't even come out in Japan yet (wouldn't be released until April 20th, 2006); it was still in development.
It stands to reason that Sakurai didn't expect Lucas to stay within Japan's walls when he added him to the roster.

With Marth no longer being Japan-exclusive due to Shadow Dragon and Roy being cut in Brawl, Lucas is the only one left. From an "old" (8 years) GBA title. The issue didn't really come up with Brawl, but it can potentially strike a problem now.

I fear that Lucas might be seen as a simple marketing tool considering he was decided for the Brawl roster almost a full year before his game would be released for no other reason than being previously planned as a Ness replacement. Especially with Brawl being heavily Mother 3-centered when it came to Mother content.

With Earthbound being hyped up again because of the Virtual Console release (especially because it actually was international which it was feared it wouldn't be), no Mother 3 in sight (at this point in time), the particular circumstances of why Lucas was even in Smash to begin with, and to top it all off, Lucas being from a Japan-exclusive release, I feel there may be high chance of us saying "Sayonara!" to him.
I dunno, I'm just kind of pessimistic about the whole thing.

Which is why I'm holding out for his reveal and/or the announcement of an international Virtual Console release for Mother 3 to ease my pessimism.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You mean reasons like Mother not needing two characters or his game being Japan-exclusive?
Or, in other words, things that didn't stop him from getting into Brawl?

Well aren't you quick to assume, my thought is that I feel Lucas was mainly added because he had a new game coming out, (that's clearly why he was going to replace Ness in Melee until his game got delayed) but now his game isn't new anymore, it's 8 years old now, so I don't think Sakurai's going to find Lucas as necessary now as he did when adding him in Brawl. Now that on it's own may not seem like enough of a reason to cut him, but combined with the reasons to cut him that you normally hear like the fact that he is from a Japan only game, from a small and dead series and the fact that he doesn't add much to the series or roster other then another silent protagonist boy with PSI powers with a similar moveset to the other silent protagonist boy with PSI powers then it might be enough for Lucas to get the axe. And if Mewtwo can get cut I don't see why people have such a hard time imagining Lucas getting cut. *points to post above. That too lol.

 

[KageJuin]

No one knows why Roy was cut.
The fact he has no content in the game indicates he was planned to return.

Besides that, Lucas differentiates himself from Ness way more than Roy did Marth.

Mainly this. Roy was supposed to be in Brawl.
so was Mewtwo.
They were cut due to time constraints, so I personally don't see the issue about being cut or not.
if they are it's due to time constraints, not due to being japan only or some other useless reason that holds no water when it comes to Sakurai's way of dealing with things.
He kept Ice Climbers. He can keep anything.

 

[pupNapoleon]

He kept Ice Climbers. He can keep anything.

Highly original, beloved, retro franchise that would never have been added if not wanted to be kept. Absolutely nothing standing in their way of not returning.

They receive a lot of slack all the time, and I think it is just because people forget to add them, as they are not super quirky such as ROB and GW, yet not a renewed retro like PIT.

Yet they have had no point against not returning, just happen to be mentioned by people a lot.

And if Mewtwo can get cut I don't see why people have such a hard time imagining Lucas getting cut.

Yep. If that can happen, then as the Chrom supporters know, truly, anything can happen.


As for the PotD, I think that we have Target Smash, a combination of Break the Targets and Home Run Contest, on the 3DS, and the individual two games on the Wii U.

 

[Kalimdori]

Start at 2 minutes, and listen carefully to the characters he is talking about being in the game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Start at 2 minutes, and listen carefully to the characters he is talking about being in the game.

SO... who is this guy? Perhaps I should watch the whole video. He says Rayman instead of Megaman; could be a freudian slip, absolutely.

I have always been one to argue Rayman must be in the game, or else Sakurai made a ridiculously poor marketing choice with revealing the trophy when he did, and before the game.

Yet others detract, as the boards tend to.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I was debating whether I should share it here, but Kalimdori beat me to it.

I'm having serious trouble trying to restrain myself from believing that Rayman is more than a trophy.

He probably meant to say Mega Man but... Just entertaining the idea feels so good.

 

[Deleted member]

Highly original, beloved, retro franchise that would never have been added if not wanted to be kept. Absolutely nothing standing in their way of not returning.

They receive a lot of slack all the time, and I think it is just because people forget to add them, as they are not super quirky such as ROB and GW, yet not a renewed retro like PIT.

Yet they have had no point against not returning, just happen to be mentioned by people a lot.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/03/creating-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-and-3ds?page=2

Sakurai did tell me that “multiple character” combatants like the Ice Climbers were proving a technical challenge on the 3DS.

Seems to me that you don't follow what's being said.
Don't bother bringing up Rosalina & Luma; that argument is overplayed and ignorant to the fact that Luma does not pose the same mechanics as Nana does.

 

[Zynux]

The Villagers are hinting at an Ice Climbers reveal because it looks like one of their taunts.

Apparently.

...Really?

People don't think that's a huge stretch?

Considering we're getting Lucina as a newcomer, there's no way Lucas and Wolf are going to be cut, even if they are semi-clones.

Thank you, based Lucina.

I fail to see how Lucina's inclusion proves without reasonable doubt that Wolf and Lucas are safe (even though I'm confident at least on of them will return). Lucina does not guarantee anyone is returning. Lucina was just padding, nothing more. Wolf and Lucas could still be seen as expendable.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/03/creating-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-and-3ds?page=2


Seems to me that you don't follow what's being said.
Don't bother bringing up Rosalina & Luma; that argument is overplayed and ignorant to the fact that Luma does not pose the same mechanics as Nana does.

I never understood why people compared Ice Climbers to Rosalina; the mechanics are fundamentally completely different to my understanding. Ice Climbers are two, high polygon models that are essentially two characters mimicking the exact moves at the same time (usually). Thus, in a match with 4 Ice Climbers, it is objectively the same as having 8 characters on screen at once.

In comparison, Rosalina is only one character with a incredibly small, low poly helper that only performs select moves with Rosalina (or does the Luma mimic her entire moveset? I'm not entirely sure, I always believed the Luma didn't mimic Specials. But it's been a while since I've watched Rosalina footage).

With that said, whether Ice Climbers is "more difficult" to program then Rosalina, or vice-versa I can't say. However, I do not believe they are the same.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well aren't you quick to assume, my thought is that I feel Lucas was mainly added because he had a new game coming out, (that's clearly why he was going to replace Ness in Melee until his game got delayed) but now his game isn't new anymore, it's 8 years old now, so I don't think Sakurai's going to find Lucas as necessary now as he did when adding him in Brawl. Now that on it's own may not seem like enough of a reason to cut him, but combined with the reasons to cut him that you normally hear like the fact that he is from a Japan only game, from a small and dead series and the fact that he doesn't add much to the series or roster other then another silent protagonist boy with PSI powers with a similar moveset to the other silent protagonist boy with PSI powers then it might be enough for Lucas to get the axe. And if Mewtwo can get cut I don't see why people have such a hard time imagining Lucas getting cut. *points to post above. That too lol.

More important than all that pish posh, is that what we really need is a silent protagonist with Psy(nergy) powers.

 

[Rockaphin]

The new mode looks kind of fun, it's obviously hinting towards a playable Angry Bird. He's all but confirmed.

 

[Doompatron3000]

Start at 2 minutes, and listen carefully to the characters he is talking about being in the game.

Rayman confirmed?

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Start at 2 minutes, and listen carefully to the characters he is talking about being in the game.

Maybe he slipped up and meant Pac-Man?
Or maybe Mega Man?

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Just a slip of the tounge. He meat either megaman or pacman.

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Just a slip of the tounge. He meat either megaman or pacman.

He already mentioned Pac-Man, and "Mega" sounds too different from "Ray", to be just a slip of the tounge. Plus, him saying Rayman was too out of the blue, unless his mind is always on Rayman.

 

[Rockaphin]

Wrong thread, ignore this.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The thing that really gets me is that he says Rayman as he's talking about characters we don't know about yet.

My first thought was that it was a slip of the tongue, but we obviously already know that Mega Man is there.

 

[Phaazoid]

The thing that really gets me is that he says Rayman as he's talking about characters we don't know about yet.

My first thought was that it was a slip of the tongue, but we obviously already know that Mega Man is there.

No he's just ignorant about smash. He thought Kirby's side B was the hammer item, and said a lot of just incorrect stuff throughout the video. don't take it to mean anything.

 

[Doompatron3000]

He already mentioned Pac-Man, and "Mega" sounds too different from "Ray", to be just a slip of the tounge. Plus, him saying Rayman was too out of the blue, unless his mind is always on Rayman.

Rayman, Pac-Man, Megaman, there are a lot of characters that do end with "man"

 

[Deleted member]

I don't exactly know why, but I have the feeling that the next Direct will be aired between mid-end august that will feature the latest newcomer to be revealed, and like 2 weeks before we'll have a direct streaming revelation.

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Rayman, Pac-Man, Megaman, there are a lot of characters that do end with "man"

Yes, you're right. But, "Mega", "Pac", and "Ray" sound nothing alike.

I don't exactly know why, but I have the feeling that the next Direct will be aired between mid-end august that will feature the latest newcomer to be revealed, and like 2 weeks before we'll have a direct streaming revelation.

I hope you're right. I got really dissapointed when I heard Hyrule Warriors was getting a direct, all I'm hoping for now is for a general Direct or a Smash Direct.

 

[Chandeelure]

Guys, what do you think about the newest leak?
That one with Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr. :/

I just can't imagine Bowser Jr. fighting and flying in his clown car, and with Koopalings alternate costumes...

 

[Rockaphin]

Guys, what do you think about the newest leak?
That one with Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr. :/

I just can't imagine Bowser Jr. fighting and flying in his clown car, and with Koopalings alternate costumes...

Very doubtful. As Sakurai explained earlier, the Koopalings do not share the same name as Bowser Jr. so they would ultimately have to be their own character slot.

. . . He did say that right?

 

[Morbi]

Very doubtful. As Sakurai explained earlier, the Koopalings do not share the same name as Bowser Jr. so they would ultimately have to be their own character slot.

. . . He did say that right?

No. He actually said quite the opposite, for the most part, albeit most misconstrue his statement pertaining to such. I suppose it depends on whether or not the Koopalings function differently. I still find it unlikely as his model would have to change drastically to accommodate Morton and whatnot.

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

 

[RouffWestie]

Guys, what do you think about the newest leak?
That one with Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr. :/

I just can't imagine Bowser Jr. fighting and flying in his clown car, and with Koopalings alternate costumes...

It's fairly believable. Bowser Jr. having alts as different characters doesn't make sense.

However, they could just name the slot, "Koopalings," and have Bowser Jr. set as the default character. Maybe the leaker only knew what the character was and how they worked, but not the specific name that was used. What I mean to say is that he just assumed the character was named Bowser Jr.