Character Discussion Thread

[Dalek_Kolt]

Girahim is a very important peice of the timeline basically bringing demise who brought the curse which brought the zelda series.girahim could have a great moveset too and why does melee roster suckingg matter.

Melee's roster explains why Shiek was included in the first place: They weren't representing Zelda, they were representing Ocarina of Time. And judging by Ganondorf, not very well.

Ghirahim is a good Zelda villain for a crossover like Hyrule Warriors. For a Smash Bros. game where every character has to be an important part of the franchise (I.E, important enough to warrant being in multiple games), Ghirahim's resume of a whopping one main game and spinoff isn't impressive.

 

[Weeman]

In 4 Swords, he was also the main villain, and in Adventures he was the secondary villain, so he was pretty important in all 3.

But my point is that Minish Cap is the reason why people even consider Vaati, since it's the game where he has a personality, backstory, motives, it also gave him his human (minish) form and explained his abilities as a mage, in Four Swords he's the main Villain but doesn't really do much but be the final boss, same with Adventures, he's just kinda there.

 

[domokl]

Melee's roster explains why Shiek was included in the first place: They weren't representing Zelda, they were representing Ocarina of Time. And judging by Ganondorf, not very well.

Ghirahim is a good Zelda villain for a crossover like Hyrule Warriors. For a Smash Bros. game where every character has to be an important part of the franchise (I.E, important enough to warrant being in multiple games), Ghirahim's resume of a whopping one main game and spinoff isn't impressive.

Girahim basically brought around the whole timelne by reviving demise who brought around the curse. That's pretty dang important.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Girahim basically brought around the whole timelne by reviving demise who brought around the curse. That's pretty dang important.

Still doesn't change the fact that he has been in one game.
Unless he was manipulating events in A Link to the Past. and the Oracle Games. And Minish Cap. And Twilight Princess.
I'll consider him if he appears in another Zelda game, along with Zant. (He was important too, he KILLED Ganondorf)

 

[Kenith]

Implied importance to the storyline of their series should not determine whether or not a character is included in Smash Bros.

Neither should how many games they have appeared in.

The only things that should be a factor here is how popular and/or marketable the character is, and how unique they could be as a character, and if I do say so, Ghirahim excels in both of those category.
I have had considerable trouble making a moveset for Ghirahim, not because he lacks defining characteristics, but because there's so much he does that no one else does.

 

[domokl]

Still doesn't change the fact that he has been in one game.
Unless he was manipulating events in A Link to the Past. and the Oracle Games. And Minish Cap. And Twilight Princess.
I'll consider him if he appears in another Zelda game, along with Zant (He was important too, he KILLED Ganondorf)

Being in one game dosent matter. Its just a fan theory jeez.

 

[Scamper52596]

Girahim basically brought around the whole timelne by reviving demise who brought around the curse. That's pretty dang important.

I'm not so certain Sakurai is thinking that much into it, or if he really cares.
"Oh, so this is the character who basically caused the whole mess that is the Zelda Timeline? I gotta put him in the game now!"

Don't hate me. I actually love the Zelda timeline. I just don't think Sakurai is going to use it to warrant a character's inclusion.

 

[domokl]

I'm not so certain Sakurai is thinking that much into it, or if he really cares.
"Oh, so this is the character who basically caused the whole mess that is the Zelda Timeline? I gotta put him in the game now!"

Don't hate me. I actually love the Zelda timeline. I just don't think Sakurai is going to use it to warrant a character's inclusion.

But he's gonna use oh he's only in one game can't add him logic againsht him? I don't see the logic in that.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm just saying, as awesome as Skull Kid and Midna were, there's a very good reason they were just Assist Trophies.

 

[Morbi]

Still doesn't change the fact that he has been in one game.
Unless he was manipulating events in A Link to the Past. and the Oracle Games. And Minish Cap. And Twilight Princess.
I'll consider him if he appears in another Zelda game, along with Zant (He was important too, he KILLED Ganondorf)

Actually, it does. His pertinence to Legend of Zelda as a franchise is much more overt as he is that much more prominent. His prevalence is entirely irrelevant as he does more in his one appearance than almost any other major Legend of Zelda character. In fact, I would assert that he does more than Ganondorf in a story context (not collectively, of course), but if you were to take one of Ganon's roles and compare it to Ghirahim's and ask someone not familiar with the series who the main villain was, they would most definitely answer: Ghirahim. You can "consider" him if he appears in another game; fortunately for us (Debbie supporters), it will not take that much for Sakurai to stop adhering to confirmation bias.

 

[domokl]

I'm just saying, as awesome as Skull Kid and Midna were, there's a very good reason they were just Assist Trophies.

And I'm just saying the only in one game can't be added theory holds no weight.

 

[Scamper52596]

But he's gonna use oh he's only in one game can't add him logic againsht him? I don't see the logic in that.

And I'm not disagreeing with you. I actually haven't pulled that card in this debate. I think it's entirely possible considering Sheik got added in Melee; although, I still think she was extremely lucky considering she was probably added just because of the transformation gimmick. Opinions will differ though.

 

[Autumn ♫]

On the third point wouldn't girahim getting into smash make him not forgetful? I mean look at mother and f zero and sheik. Putting a character intyuo smash make them more popular as a whole.

Both have continued having games until a point. Falcon had all the way until after GX and Sheik has had plenty of ported versions of OoT and the OoT3D remake, unless Ghirahim also has that, I think he would become pretty forgetful as a Zelda character and would most likely be cut in the next Smash Bros.

 

[Kenith]

Actually, it does. His pertinence to Legend of Zelda as a franchise is much more overt as he is that much more prominent. His prevalence is entirely irrelevant as he does more in his one appearance than almost any other major Legend of Zelda character. In fact, I would assert that he does more than Ganondorf in a story context (not collectively, of course), but if you were to take one of Ganon's roles and compare it to Ghirahim's and ask someone not familiar with the series who the main villain was, they would most definitely answer: Ghirahim. You can "consider" him if he appears in another game; fortunately for us (Debbie supporters), it will not take that much for Sakurai to stop adhering to confirmation bias.

This.

One very important role beats five moderately important ones by a lot.
Not saying Ganon is moderately important, but it's not they're competing anyway.

Both have continued having games until a point. Falcon had all the way until after GX and Sheik has had plenty of ported versions of OoT and the OoT3D remake, unless Ghirahim also has that, I think he would become pretty forgetful as a Zelda character and would most likely be cut in the next Smash Bros.

So, would you rather have a character who could be forgotten, but won't because he's been in Smash, or one who is already forgotten?

 

[domokl]

Both have continued having games until a point. Falcon had all the way until after GX and Sheik has had plenty of ported versions of OoT and the OoT3D remake, unless Ghirahim also has that, I think he would become pretty forgetful as a Zelda character and would most likely be cut in the next Smash Bros.

Wouldn't ike have been cut then?

 

[Autumn ♫]

Wouldn't ike have been cut then?

He appeared in Radiant Dawn, which was after Brawl (either that or Path of Radiance, I mix the two up), and was referenced in Awakening.

 

[Nat Perry]

Ike and Marth have appeared in two games of the main series, three if you count their summoned cameos in Awakening. Nearly very Fire Emblem game has different main protagonists, and those two happen to be protagonists more than once. Not to mention that both Marth and Ike have descendants in other games (i.e. Chrom, Lucina, and Priam). I think that because of this, they are playable in Smash, despite other Fire Emblem characters such as Camus, Anna, and the Pegasus Knights appearing in more games than they have.

 

[domokl]

He appeared in Radiant Dawn, which was after Brawl (either that or Path of Radiance, I mix the two up), and was referenced in Awakening.

Radiant dawn was in 2007……

Ike and Marth have appeared in two games of the main series, three if you count their summoned cameos in Awakening. Nearly very Fire Emblem game has different main protagonists, and those two happen to be protagonists more than once. Not to mention that both Marth and Ike have descendants in other games (i.e. Chrom, Lucina, and Priam). I think that because of this, they are playable in Smash, despite other Fire Emblem characters such as Camus, Anna, and the Pegasus Knights appearing in more games than they have.

Again appearing in one game does not matter.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Wouldn't ike have been cut then?

The difference between Fire Emblem and Zelda is that Zelda has and will continue to have a large, consistent cast of characters. Fire Emblem is more of a "new generation per game" kinda deal. They can afford to have oneshots represent their franchise, and afford to be cut like Roy, because there are so many damn characters and protagonists that refuse to stick around.

I don't know if Lucina is going to get the axe next game, but Robin and Ike are pretty stable in their place in the roster because of their moveset (Ike) or what they represent (Robin). Worst comes to worst, their movesets will likely be transferred to another FE character next game.

 

[Nat Perry]

Again appearing in one game does not matter.

Do your research on the Fire Emblem series and read Dalek_Kolt post, you'll understand things better.

 

[Weeman]

Again appearing in one game does not matter.

But Ike didn't appear in only one game, i agree with your logic, but your statement about Ike is false.

 

[Morbi]

But Ike didn't appear in one game, i agree with your logic, but your statement about Ike is false.

He did not insinuate that Ike appeared in one game in that post, he is asserting that the notion that a character appears in one game is not relevant to their inclusion. If it was, certain characters would not be on the roster.

 

[domokl]

The difference between Fire Emblem and Zelda is that Zelda has and will continue to have a large, consistent cast of characters. Fire Emblem is more of a "new generation per game" kinda deal. They can afford to have oneshots represent their franchise, and afford to be cut like Roy, because there are so many damn characters and protagonists that refuse to stick around.

I don't know if Lucina is going to get the axe next game, but Robin and Ike are pretty stable in their place in the roster because of their moveset (Ike) or what they represent (Robin). Worst comes to worst, their movesets will likely be transferred to another FE character next game.

Unique moveset dosent always keep a character in a game as refrenced by mewtwo.speaking of pokemon it shows that if the character is popular it stays in the game. Lucario would have been cut if he wasn't as popular in smash.also pit got a whole new game because of his popularity in brawl

 

[Nat Perry]

Hello, everyone. Allow me to share my poetry with you all.

 

[Weeman]

He did not insinuate that Ike appeared in one game in that post, he is asserting that the notion that a character appears in one game is not relevant to their inclusion. If it was, certain characters would not be on the roster.

Well he insinuated that Ike would have been cut by the logic of not having more than one appearance that Scatsmanworld mentioned, wich made it seem like he was implying that Ike only had one appearance.

Hello, everyone. Allow me to share my poetry with you all.

... Now i want to change my user name to Jiggle-Lee-Puff

 

[Starphoenix]

Regarding all of this...

Hello, everyone. Allow me to share my poetry with you all.

Open it in a new tab and click back to this Smashboards page for the best effect.

I'd suggest trying not to spam the board constantly with your poetry. If people are interested they will come without you having to publish a reminder every other post.

Plus it's off-topic.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think the one-time excuse works only on the main character of the Nintendo franchise, for veteran franchise newcomers, it doesn't work.

 

[ElPanandero]

Agahnim anyone?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

If you feel compelled, for whatever reason, to share poetry; please do so in the Smash Social thread, or better yet, the Creative Minds forum in Arts and Entertainment. Don't post links to poetry in the Character Discussion Thread.

 

[Weeman]

I think the one-time excuse works only on the main character of the Nintendo franchise, for veteran franchise newcomers, it doesn't work.

That's pretty subjective to be honest, what if the character is fairly popular, or can be made as a clone? (like Dark Pit). I think we cannot just assume things until we get word from Sakurai himself, wich we probably won't since most of this reasons seem pretty arbitrary, i think popularity, moveset potential and recognizability within the series should be the important factors for determining a character, and admittedly Ghirahim doesn't fill the third one so well.

 

[Nat Perry]

That's pretty subjective to be honest, what if the character is fairly popular, or can be made as a clone? (like Dark Pit). I think we cannot just assume things until we get word from Sakurai himself.

Yeah.

I feel like people don't know why certain characters are chosen and why certain characters are not. You can't just apply one rule to everyone. You can't base character's inclusion based on one asset. Each character has several things that factor into their conclusion. They could be a one-time character and still be deemed important enough for their conclusion if they have the merits. It could be popularity, relevenacy, importance, prominence, etc. and each character is chosen based on who they are and what they have.

There's a reason Greninja got in and not Delphox or Chesnaught. There'a reason Genesect isn't playable. There's a reason Rosalina is playable and Pauline is not. There's a reason Wario is playable and Waluigi is not. There's a reason Lucina and Robin are playable and Lyn is not.

 

[ElPanandero]

That's pretty subjective to be honest, what if the character is fairly popular, or can be made as a clone? (like Dark Pit). I think we cannot just assume things until we get word from Sakurai himself, wich we probably won't since most of this reasons seem pretty arbitrary, i think popularity, moveset potential and recognizability within the series should be the important factors for determining a character, and admittedly Ghirahim doesn't fill the third one so well.

I think he's recognizable to newer/younger gamers. But fans of the old stuff (and established smash fans alike) won't recognize him (I didn't know who he was til I came back here). but we're the people Sakurai already has hooked. He doesn't need to worry about my group of fans knowing who he is, we're gonna buy it anyway. But if the younger fans who played skyward sword see him, it might draw them in (though I don't see anyone liking him that much, but that's my best defense despite him being character I staunchly oppose, only topped by my disdain for Bandanna Dee)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If we do get a character reveal at Comic Con who do you think it would be? I have a feeling it would be Mewtwo.

 

[Weeman]

I think he's recognizable to newer/younger gamers. But fans of the old stuff (and established smash fans alike) won't recognize him (I didn't know who he was til I came back here). but we're the people Sakurai already has hooked. He doesn't need to worry about my group of fans knowing who he is, we're gonna buy it anyway. But if the younger fans who played skyward sword see him, it might draw them in (though I don't see anyone liking him that much, but that's my best defense despite him being character I staunchly oppose, only topped by my disdain for Bandanna Dee)

Well i think "Prominency" would have been a better word to establish my point.

 

[Silverjay323]

Meh. The only problem I have with ghirahim is that his artstyle sorta clashes with link, zelda and probably ganondorf. You could use toon link as a counterargument but he's a stand alone character representing a string of titles that use that particular style.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If we do get a character reveal at Comic Con who do you think it would be? I have a feeling it would be Mewtwo.

I'd assume someone small, since we just got 3 reveals last week. Maybe the Ice Climbers or maybe Ness or Lucas?

 

[Nat Perry]

Meh. The only problem I have with ghirahim is that his artstyle sorta clashes with link, zelda and probably ganondorf. You could use toon link as a counterargument but he's a stand alone character representing a string of titles that use that particular artstyle.

I think his design fits Smash's art style perfectly, why do you think it "clashes" with other characters?

 

[Silverjay323]

I think his design fits Smash's art style perfectly, why do you think it "clashes" with other characters?

Not smash in general. Just with the rest of the zelda characters who seem to have retained their tp artstyle. So a SS one kinda sticks out.

 

[Weeman]

Meh. The only problem I have with ghirahim is that his artstyle sorta clashes with link, zelda and probably ganondorf. You could use toon link as a counterargument but he's a stand alone character representing a string of titles that use that particular artstyle.

Well that is certainly one argument i haven't heard before, and i don't see much of a problem, i mean we have a game where the gritty style of Snake's character can get along with those of the Mother franchise, so i don't see clashing artstyles as a problem, in fact it kinda embraces the whole concept of Smash Bros in the first place.

 

[skylanders fan]

If we do get a character reveal at Comic Con who do you think it would be? I have a feeling it would be Mewtwo.

yeah it needs to be him hopefully