Character Discussion Thread

[AncientTobacco]

Also the fact that he is essentially evil Fi. He probably got locked away into the sword once Demise is defeated.

Actually, the sword was destroyed. So Ghirahim is probably dead.

 

[praline]

Actually, the sword was destroyed. So Ghirahim is probably dead.

That works for me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well, they have been marketing Skyward Sword in general...like, a lot.
Just look at Smash Bros.

Also

Yes, but I feel like this doesn't count because I doubt we'll be seeing Hyrule Warriors related decisions and content in the game.
If it came to it though, Impa would probably have the bigger spotlight from Sakurai than from Ghirahim.

What do you mean by marketing and pushing? Why should they be marketing him now? There has only been a single game since skyward and that was a Link between worlds, a game where Ghirahim appereance wouldn't have made any sense

Rosalina for example seems to be pushed by Nintendo lately and they are making a big deal out of her with the princess being playable in a 3D Mario game and her getting the spotlight trailer in Mario Kart 8.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Who is that that Link is fighting?! Zant? Yuga? Ganon??????

Vaati

Note: None of the reasons he was included have anything to do with how many games Robin is in.

I don't see how Fire Emblem and Zelda can be compared though. Fire Emblem always has a new cast of characters (unless it's a direct sequal or prequel of another game) Zelda always has the same main cast characters. If Zelda changed it's characters around like Fire Emblem does, I would understand, but they don't.

 

[Donalp15]

Hyrule warriors really means little for anybody really, as no one is getting special attention. Ghirahim and Impa may be it, but so are Zant and Midna and Fi, even Argorok and The Imprisoned.
Nintendo isn't making the decisions so it cant really be used as evidenece as who they think is important.

 

[KageJuin]

I just noticed how Link Between Worlds is outselling Skyward sword on a handheld that has a tiny installbase compared to the astronomically gargantuan install base of the Wii.

It shows which game is more popular.

hmmm.... I hope there is some kind of newcomer from ALbW now!
really do hope so!

 

[Kenith]

Actually, the sword was destroyed. So Ghirahim is probably dead.

No, it was necessarily "destroyed"

It disappeared. It wasn't necessarily destroyed, it does not shatter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poWsyG60WTw

31:07. It looks conclusive, but it doesn't say "he is completely destroyed". If there is demand or sort of reason they want to use the character again, no one is stopping them.

 

[EmceeEspio]

That moment when you're asking for roster critiques and get nothing but likes.

For the seldom few interested, here you go.

Spoiler

 

[praline]

That moment when you're asking for roster critiques and get nothing but likes.

For the seldom few interested, here you go.

Spoiler

View attachment 18757

Geno gave me a good laugh.

 

[Kenith]

Yes, but I feel like this doesn't count because I doubt we'll be seeing Hyrule Warriors related decisions and content in the game.
If it came to it though, Impa would probably have the bigger spotlight from Sakurai than from Ghirahim.

That's not the point.

The point is that Skyward Sword content is being included in this game, and that counts as promotion.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Yes, but I feel like this doesn't count because I doubt we'll be seeing Hyrule Warriors related decisions and content in the game.
If it came to it though, Impa would probably have the bigger spotlight from Sakurai than from Ghirahim.


Rosalina for example seems to be pushed by Nintendo lately and they are making a big deal out of her with the princess being playable in a 3D Mario game and her getting the spotlight trailer in Mario Kart 8.

Bad example, the mario series has a lot of spin off games, you don't see Zelda kart, or Zelda tennis, Mario get's way more games than Zelda, also unlike Mario bros where you can often play as luigi, toad or peach, in zelda, the only playable character is link, they are very different series

 

[BluePikmin11]

That's not the point.

The point is that Skyward Sword content is being included in this game, and that counts as promotion.

But they are promoting Link Between Worlds and Wind Waker HD now on the character pages on the dojo, not Skyward Sword?

Bad example, the mario series has a lot of spin off games, you don't see Zelda kart, or Zelda tennis, Mario get's way more games than Zelda, also unlike Mario bros where you can often play as luigi, toad or peach, in zelda, the only playable character is link, they are very different series

I'm not sure where you are going with this as it seems to be unrelated to the promotion statement I was talking about.

 

[Donalp15]

That moment when you're asking for roster critiques and get nothing but likes.

For the seldom few interested, here you go.

Spoiler

View attachment 18757

There is a hot debate going on so I ignored you sorry!
Pretty flawless except for Geno, but Ridley cures all ails.

 

[Morbi]

Hyrule warriors really means little for anybody really, as no one is getting special attention. Ghirahim and Impa may be it, but so are Zant and Midna and Fi, even Argorok and The Imprisoned.
Nintendo isn't making the decisions so it cant really be used as evidenece as who they think is important.

Of course not, it is just finally a relevant notion to stop the utterly arbitrary "Ghirahim is a one-shot" argument. It is fallacious and supporters such as Kenith and I grow immensely tired of it being thrown around as a reason to discredit Debbie. No one here believes that Hyrule Warriors is the reason that Ghirahim will be considered. I am sure most of us would argue the antithesis of such.

 

[EmceeEspio]

Yeah, Geno's kind of my 'pot dream'/'I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU' character.

At the moment, I would realistically trade him in for Shulk, or for the spin off Mario spot, Luigified Dr. Mario.

But I can't take him off without pain.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

But they are promoting Link Between Worlds and Wind Waker HD now on the character pages on the dojo, not Skyward Sword?

Yet they are all using their twilight princess design, which means they don't really care about promoting the more recent games

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yet they are all using their twilight princess design, which means they don't really care about promoting the more recent games

I don't think the design really matters, the designs chosen are the ones Sakurai seems to think are the best designs.

 

[Morbi]

I just noticed how Link Between Worlds is outselling Skyward sword on a handheld that has a tiny installbase compared to the astronomically gargantuan install base of the Wii.

It shows which game is more popular.

hmmm.... I hope there is some kind of newcomer from ALbW now!
really do hope so!

Incorrect. That illuminates that the game sold better, it does not; however, establish that the game is more popular. Albeit, I would probably assert that it is. But there is no proof of such.

Secondly, the "install base" needs to be adjusted accordingly to owners of "Wii Motion Plus" as it is required for the game.

Yet they are all using their twilight princess design, which means they don't really care about promoting the more recent games

No. It means that Ganondorf does not have a Skyward Sword design.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

I don't think the design really matters, the designs chosen are the ones Sakurai seems to think are the best designs.

But if Sakurai or Nintendo is trying to promote the more recent games, they would be using skyward sword or a link between worlds design
@ Morbi Sheik didn't have a design for twilight princess either but they made one for her anyway

 

[KageJuin]

also. Ice Climbers may become Ice Climber.
Just an observation from the way Sakurai keeps talking about the 3DS and how characters may be back in a reduced manner even though the roster will remain consistent.

It's probably why transformations were removed from the game, which makes me wonder if Ice Climbers will become singular.

 

[Kenith]

But if Sakurai or Nintendo is trying to promote the more recent games, they would be using skyward sword or a link between worlds design

Link does. The design itself is from Twilight Princess. However, the color scheme is derived from Skyward Sword's artwork.

 

[Morbi]

But if Sakurai or Nintendo is trying to promote the more recent games, they would be using skyward sword or a link between worlds design

I suppose they (Nintendo) are promoting Skyward Sword through the most recent Legend of Zelda title: Hyrule Warriors. I believe Skyward Sword costumes for Link and Zelda (no Ganondorf for some reason ) are pre-order bonuses. I am not sure if Hyrule Warriors is a Nintendo IP... last time I checked... it was. That could have changed though, I heard that Capcom was going to purchase Nintendo.

 

[BluePikmin11]

But if Sakurai or Nintendo is trying to promote the more recent games, they would be using skyward sword or a link between worlds design

What? The characters would obviously promote the newer games coming out, not the design.
I think were losing track of the main topic here.

 

[Weeman]

Technically he appeared in multiple games, just not the same tactician.
The fact that he was one of the main characters in Awakening made him a possible contender for the third FE character, and his uniqueness was probably the reason Sakurai gave him the approval over Chrom. Ghirahim is not the main character of SS, he was just a one-time villain in Skyward Sword who will most likely be left aside. And honestly, the fact that he's not the recurring main villain for the entire Zelda series makes me doubt him.
Bear in mind though, I support Ghirahim, I just don't see him as likely as you people exaggerate.

Ghirahim has also appeared in multiple games, he's the culmination of a long line of secondary villains, Aghanim, Cancellor Cole, Zant, Vaati, so therefore he totally deserves to be in Smash

 

[shinhed-echi]

I really wish they had gone with Young Link instead of Toon.
Big fan of the Oracle games, Link's Awakening, and Link to the Past.

It's my favorite kid Link. Too bad neither of the chosen Links resonates with me. But that's ok, not a big LoZ fan anyway.
It's also a shame that neither Link has the size to be turned into Young Link via alternate costume.

But the least they could do is, if there's a Zelda newcomer, make it Classic Ganon, who is usually Young Link's (sans OOT) main foe.

 

[Morbi]

also. Ice Climbers may become Ice Climber.
Just an observation from the way Sakurai keeps talking about the 3DS and how characters may be back in a reduced manner even though the roster will remain consistent.

It's probably why transformations were removed from the game, which makes me wonder if Ice Climbers will become singular.

I actually agree with this sentiment despite the inherent unpopular nature of the opinion. However, I would argue that if Ice Climber was in the roster that they should re-name him Sub-Zero and cash-in on those Mortal Kombat fanboys!

Ghirahim has also appeared in multiple games, he's the culmination of a long line of secondary villains, Aghanim, Cancellor Cole, Zant, Vaati, so therefore he totally deserves to be in Smash

They could just design him as an amalgamation of all of those characters and name him "Fabulous Antagonist."

 

[KageJuin]

Vaati has been leaked!!! omg!

Spoiler: Vaati Leak

 

[ultimatekoopa]

What? The characters would obviously promote the newer games coming out, not the design.
I think were losing track of the main topic here.

Indeed, Ghirahim hasn't been marketed as a recurring zelda character because there has only been 1 new zelda since skyward sword, unlike the mario series that gets a lot of new games in less time, so comparing Rosalina and Ghirahim isn't a good idea
@ KageJuin Vaati can't be playable, he is too big

 

[Morbi]

Vaati has been leaked!!! omg!

Spoiler

Who is Vaati?

I really wish they had gone with Young Link instead of Toon.
Big fan of the Oracle games, Link's Awakening, and Link to the Past.

It's my favorite kid Link. Too bad neither of the chosen Links resonates with me. But that's ok, not a big LoZ fan anyway.
It's also a shame that neither Link has the size to be turned into Young Link via alternate costume.

But the least they could do is, if there's a Zelda newcomer, make it Classic Ganon, who is usually Young Link's (sans OOT) main foe.

Young Link's main foe is still "Ganon" as he is the main antagonist. The reason he starts his adventure. Young Link is still Link... just a younger version of him. They are the same character, as I am sure you are aware.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

There's a difference between a one shot protagonist and a one shot villain. One shot protagonist's are more important, well known and popular and they are more likely to appear in future games. More importantly someone like Lucina is from a series that changes the characters almost every game, so if you want to represent the series it's hard to avoid not adding one time characters, unless you add someone like Anna, but it seems obvious that they only want to add characters that are main protagonists. That's not the case with Zelda, they don't need to be adding one shot Zelda characters, I mean we do have Sheik, but Sheik is just Zelda (who IS a recurring character) taking on a different appearance, which is a recurring thing in the series.

 

[KageJuin]

Who is Vaati?


Young Link's main foe is still "Ganon" as he is the main antagonist. The reason he starts his adventure. Young Link is still Link... just a younger version of him. They are the same character, as I am sure you are aware.

hahaha :D

and no.. Young Link =/= Link.
Unless you're talking about OoT and MM

Alttp, ALbW, etc all have a young link, which is not adult link.
Toon Link has an original Link costume in Brawl. They should flesh it out and make it an alt that looks and sounds like the young link from ALbW/AlttP and we would all be happy.

Spoiler

and Ravio please. Pink Link will become my main in that case

 

[Morbi]

hahaha :D

and no.. Young Link =/= Link.
Unless you're talking about OoT and MM

Alttp, ALbW, etc all have a young link, which is not adult link.
Toon Link has an original Link costume in Brawl. They should flesh it out and make it an alt that looks and sounds like the young link from ALbW/AlttP and we would all be happy.

Spoiler

and Ravio please. Pink Link will become my main in that case

I was most certainly alluding to "Ocarina of Time" Link. I comprehend that differences between the Links from different time-lines and/or games. It is just that Young Link from OoT is "Adult" Link from OoT.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Who is Vaati?


Young Link's main foe is still "Ganon" as he is the main antagonist. The reason he starts his adventure. Young Link is still Link... just a younger version of him. They are the same character, as I am sure you are aware.

I'll make this super short.
I was talking about designs.

Would gladly go more in-depth with why that reply was most unsatisfying, but I'm not that big of a LoZ fan to start arguing about it.

Also, I fail to see why the fact that Ganondorf IS Ganon explains anything....

 

[Morbi]

I'll make this super short.
I was talking about designs.

Would gladly go more in-depth with why that reply was most unsatisfying, but I'm not that big of a LoZ fan to start arguing about it.

Also, I fail to see why the fact that Ganondorf IS Ganon explains anything....

... um... because Ganondorf is Ganon?

What more do you want? He turns INTO Ganon at the end of the ****ing game!

 

[Autumn ♫]

Vaati has been leaked!!! omg!

Spoiler: Vaati Leak

Has my leak gotten that popular?

 

[epicgordan]

also. Ice Climbers may become Ice Climber.
Just an observation from the way Sakurai keeps talking about the 3DS and how characters may be back in a reduced manner even though the roster will remain consistent.

It's probably why transformations were removed from the game, which makes me wonder if Ice Climbers will become singular.

Transformations were cut due to the customizable features; Sakurai specifically wanted to make each character their own, and thus the customizable moveset allows each character to evolve overtime. And while I can see Sakurai tweaking the way the Ice Climbers functioned due to hardware limitations, I cannot see him cutting one of them as that would eliminate the whole idea of their character design.

 

[Morbi]

Transformations were cut due to the customizable features; Sakurai specifically wanted to make each character their own, and thus the customizable moveset allows each character to evolve overtime. And while I can see Sakurai tweaking the way the Ice Climbers functioned due to hardware limitations, I cannot see him cutting one of them as that would eliminate the whole idea of their character design.

Could you please provide a source? It seems apparent that he could still implement customization with transformation characters (aside from their d-special, for the most part; that is), so it does not seem like that would be the reason.

 

[---]

Vaati has been leaked!!! omg!

Spoiler: Vaati Leak

Please do not post off topic spam.

 

[shinhed-echi]

If Sakurai were to cut the Ice Climbers in half, I don't see him renaming him as either Popo/Nana, unless they split them into two clone characters of each other. It would be ridiculous because IN Ice Climbers, Popo and Nana are just recolors.

However, it would certainly deal with the infinite grab problem...
I thought the problem regarding the transforming characters were load times + the fact that they all lack a SPECIAL.
I don't see WHY he had to take out Pokemon Trainer, though... Just getting rid of the stamina/force switch was enough, if you ask me.

I LIKE transforming characters. Transforming characters made the game MUCH more fun for me.

But back to the Ice Climbers. I don't think they'll be split. Tweaked, probably yeah, a lot. But their issue is not the same as the transforming characters' issues.

 

[Deleted member]

Fixing Ice Climbers is easy; just make Nana unable to grab, and make her unable to move while Popo is grabbing. Not sure how easy that would be to program, but it would certainly remove the issue of infinites and guaranteed follow-ups.