Character Discussion Thread

[Weeman]

If we do get a character reveal at Comic Con who do you think it would be? I have a feeling it would be Mewtwo.

Hawlucha obviously

 

[Nat Perry]

Yeah, they can certainly make Ghirahim look right at home with the likes of Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf, I don't think it's that hard. It's not like his original artstyle is going to be directly ported to the game. Look at Other M Samus, she isn't glossy like she was in other M. Little Mac was cel-shaded in Punch Out for Wii and look at him, he totally fits with Smash's visual style.

I mean, these are the only reps for their respective series, but still I know they could make Ghirahim fit in with the rest of the Zelda characters, visually.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Appereances=/=importance, Ghirahim can be considered way more important than Tingle, Vaati, etc, he is one of the main reasons that zelda and link are attacked by little wizards, a giant pig, etc

 

[Metallaeus]

If Jiggly still remains in Smash, I'm pretty sure the door's open for any character that wants to waltz in. Saying 'there's no way this character would ever make it in, that's stupid' and being ignorant to reasoning is just plain dumb. Nobody ever expected Greninja to make it in, and if I tried convincing people that he would be a part of the roster, I'm sure people would laugh at me, but hey, Smash is full of surprises. Of course, If someone said 'Goku's gonna be in Smash 4', I would tell him the chances are definitely not in his/her favor.

 

[Nat Perry]

I feel like Jiggs is in the same boat Mewtwo's in. They both were (were) extremely popular "back in the day." Were.

Mewtwo's been gaining in popularity thanks to X & Y and the Pokemon movie, so I guess he "has an edge" on Jigglypuff.

 

[~Krystal~]

Ghirahim more important than Tingle? Unlikely. Without him, we don't get the Picto Box, an essential tool for posting selfies on social networking sites and Miiverse. Let's not get carried away.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Appereances=/=importance, Ghirahim can be considered way more important than Tingle, Vaati, etc, he is one of the main reasons that zelda and link are attacked by little wizards, a giant pig, etc

That's just overestimating Ghirahim's importance now.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Appereances=/=importance, Ghirahim can be considered way more important than Tingle, Vaati, etc, he is one of the main reasons that zelda and link are attacked by little wizards, a giant pig, etc

That's just overestimating Ghirahim's importance now.

Why? For example, let's compare Ghirahim and Tingle (nothing against Tingle supporters by the way)
In Majora's Mask, he the guy that sells maps
In Wind Waker, he is the guy that sells maps
In Skyward Sword, he is a doll
If Ghirahim didn't exist in the timeline, Demise would have never been defeated and Ganondorf, Vaati, etc wouldn't exist in the timeline, if anything you are understimating his importance

 

[Scamper52596]

Appereances=/=importance, Ghirahim can be considered way more important than Tingle, Vaati, etc, he is one of the main reasons that zelda and link are attacked by little wizards, a giant pig, etc

Why? For example, let's compare Ghirahim and Tingle (nothing against Tingle supporters by the way)
In Majora's Mask, he the guy that sells maps
In Wind Waker, he is the guy that sells maps
In Skyward Sword, he is a doll
If Ghirahim didn't exist in the timeline, Demise would have never been defeated and Ganondorf, Vaati, etc wouldn't exist in the timeline, if anything you are understimating his importance

I feel like we've seen a similar debate about a page ago.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, but that's only importance story-wise, and that is a completely different kind of importance, an importance that I doubt Sakurai will care about.

 

[Kenith]

I am a huge fan of Ghirahim but I'm not about to claim story important in games he wasn't in is reason for his inclusion in Smash where canon doesn't even matter.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Yeah, but that's only importance story-wise, and that is a completely different kind of importance, an importance that I doubt Sakurai will care about.

If appeareances hold any value then people wouldn't be expecting Dark Pit, they would expect Medusa, if they hold any value then we wouldn't have Lucas, we would have Porky, I highly doubt Sakurai cares about how many games x character had been, he cares about their moveset potential, if he fits in the game, etc

 

[BluePikmin11]

If appeareances hold any value then people wouldn't be expecting Dark Pit, they would expect Medusa, if they hold any value then we wouldn't have Lucas, we would have Porky, I highly doubt Sakurai cares about how many games x character had been, he cares about their moveset potential, if he fits in the game, etc

But Sakurai's bias is showing that he wants to push Dark Pit as one of the side characters of KI now, and he is indeed a popular enough character to get in as a last-minute semi-clone. And techincally, Lucina only appeared in one FE game so far, so your argument doesn't hold at all.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

But Sakurai's bias is showing that he wants to push Dark Pit as one of the side characters of KI now, and he is indeed a popular character. And techincally, Lucina only appeared in one FE game so far, so your argument doesn't hold at all.

Exactly, Lucina got in despite being a one shot character, this means that the number of appeareances of one character doesn't hold any value in how the roster is decided, which was my point all the time

 

[Zynux]

I think a Zelda newcomer is unlikely, but thats just me for arbitrary reasons.

I too also think that a Zelda character is not only unlikely, but not even necessary at this point for arbitrary and subjective reasonings.

Meh. The only problem I have with ghirahim is that his artstyle sorta clashes with link, zelda and probably ganondorf. You could use toon link as a counterargument but he's a stand alone character representing a string of titles that use that particular style.

I don't see how this would pose a problem for Ghirahim. The entire Smash Bros. cast has opposing artsyles clashing with each other; Ghirahim would be no different. Besides, Ghirahim standing out is nothing new; his design even in Skyward Sword was pretty distinguished from everyone else.

If Ghirahim didn't exist in the timeline, Demise would have never been defeated and Ganondorf, Vaati, etc wouldn't exist in the timeline, if anything you are understimating his importance

Maybe, but that's assuming his importance and indirect role in the Zelda canon is going to help him anyway, which I don't believe at all (subjectively, of course). It seems to me (presuming) that whether Ghirahim makes it in or not will solely be based on whether Sakurai saw potential in him. His appearances (or lack thereof) or his perceived importance (which seems to be very indirect in the grand scheme of things) may not be relevant to his inclusion.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If appeareances hold any value then people wouldn't be expecting Dark Pit, they would expect Medusa, if they hold any value then we wouldn't have Lucas, we would have Porky, I highly doubt Sakurai cares about how many games x character had been, he cares about their moveset potential, if he fits in the game, etc

Porky and Giygas would be our only Mother character if Mother dealt with # of games a character was in...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Exactly, Lucina got in despite being a one shot character, this means that the number of appeareances of one character doesn't hold any value in how the roster is decided, which was my point all the time

I speculate that it was mostly because of her popularity and the fact she was very easy to make into playable, in which Ghirahim doesn't do so well at.

 

[Donalp15]

Assuming the trophy theory has merit, I think Impa is the one with the higher chance. Ghirahim justs reminds me of Yuga, Zant, Malladus, Bellum, Staven, Midna, Fi, Navi, Ceila, King of Red Lions, Skull Kid and Majora. While Ghirahim is more interesting than most of these (except maybe skull kid or Midna), it doesn't stop the fact that the supporting cast is ever-changing, and in a few years there will be another character that fills a similar role to him.

Ghirahim is really nothing special, Midna and especially Skull Kid gained relatively large support followings, but they were basically ignored in brawl and and are only assist trophies in SSB4.
While Impa has appeared in or was mentioned a number of games, her appearances were generally boring and minimal. Her Skyward Sword appearance may still have been small, but it was much more interesting than her previous incarnations and gives me hope for an interesting character for subsequent titles.

I do not believe there will be a Zelda newcomer in SSB4, but if there is i think it should be Impa or Vaati, and maybe in the next game Tingle (although I do not want him myself).

 

[ultimatekoopa]

I too also think that a Zelda character is not only unlikely, but not even necessary at this point for arbitrary and subjective reasonings.


I don't see how this would pose a problem for Ghirahim. The entire Smash Bros. cast has opposing artsyles clashing with each other; Ghirahim would be no different. Besides, Ghirahim standing out is nothing new; his design even in Skyward Sword was pretty distinguished from everyone else.


Maybe, but that's assuming his importance and indirect role in the Zelda canon is going to help him anyway, which I don't believe at all (subjectively, of course). It seems to me (presuming) that whether Ghirahim makes it in or not will solely be based on whether Sakurai saw potential in him. His appearances (or lack thereof) or his perceived importance (which seems to be very indirect in the grand scheme of things) may not be relevant to his inclusion.

I wasn't arguing that canon importance is what puts characters in smash bros, I was saying that the "x character won't get in because he hasn't appeared in Y number of games"
@ BluePikmin11 Ghirahim is actually a popular zelda character
Basically the number of appearances of 1 character isn't what sakurai cares about smash

 

[Kenith]

I speculate that it was mostly because of her popularity and the fact she was very easy to make into playable, in which Ghirahim doesn't do so well.

What about Robin then? He's not as popular as Lucina or Chrom, and only appears in one game, yet because he was unique he made the cut anyway.

 

[Autumn ♫]

What about Robin then? He's not as popular as Lucina or Chrom, and only appears in one game, yet because he was unique he made the cut anyway.

Probably because he represents something different, that being magic. Tag that along with him being able to represent the other tactitians, and I think that may be the full reason why Sakurai decided to add him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What about Robin then? He's not as popular as Lucina or Chrom, and only appears in one game, yet because he was unique he made the cut anyway.

Technically he appeared in multiple games, just not the same tactician.
The fact that he was one of the main characters in Awakening made him a possible contender for the third FE character, and his uniqueness was probably the reason Sakurai gave him the approval over Chrom. Ghirahim is not the main character of SS, he was just a one-time villain in Skyward Sword who will most likely be left aside. And honestly, the fact that he's not the recurring main villain for the entire Zelda series makes me doubt him.
Bear in mind though, I support Ghirahim, I just don't see him as likely as you people exaggerate.

 

[KageJuin]

whhn theorycrafting, wouldn't it be nice to take into consideration how Sakurai goes to work?
He always adds characters based on :
Popularity,
Unique gameplay elements,
And lastly classic characters who he wants to revive (ROB, Ice Climbers, Pit. Mr Game and Watch.)

looking at a series such as zelda we have to assert he will not be adding a classic character as the franchise is alive and kicking.

Popularity? the popular characters are in, such as the Mario cast.
Mario got Rosalina. Why? combination of popularity and uniqueness.
FE got Robin. Why? you guessed it.


Think like this: What Zelda character is popular, but also has great potential for a new moveset?
Girahim certainly has more to draw from than Impa does.
Vaati has more to draw on than Girahim does.


If the new character had to be a toss up between Girahim, Impa and Vaati, I would be Sakurai would choose Girahim.
I would pick Vaati solely for moveset potential while representing a Toon Link Villain.

I just think it's funny nobody has mentioned Ravio or Yuga, which I think could make it into the game.
Ravio as an alt at the very least while Yuga could make an interesting character.


If Skyward sword is the game that will be drawn from we have very limited options:
Link (already in the game), Zelda (already in the game, Demise(Pretty much Ganondorf), Impa (no moveset potential due to Sheik), Girahim (Slightly interesting), Fi (Trophy already announced so doubtful), Groose? (what?).

That seems like a limitation if anything....

 

[EmceeEspio]

So I thought you may want to have fun ranting at me today so I made this,

51 characters plus Miis (Random when custom is off)

Have fun. And please let me live.

 

[Kenith]

Technically he appeared in multiple games, just not the same tactician.
The fact that he was one of the main characters in Awakening made him a possible contender for the third FE character, and his uniqueness was probably the reason Sakurai gave him the approval over Chrom. Ghirahim is not the main character of SS, he was just a one-time villain in Skyward Sword who will most likely be left aside. And honestly, the fact that he's not the recurring main villain for the entire Zelda series makes me doubt him.
Bear in mind though, I support Ghirahim, I just don't see him as likely as you people exaggerate.

He's the main villain.
And no, Robin did not appear in multiple games. Saying that the Tactician appearing in multiple games is like saying Marth is in every Fire Emblem game because there's a Lord in them.

EDIT: And frankly, the one-time character argument is moot, and, moreover, presumptuous.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Technically he appeared in multiple games, just not the same tactician.
The fact that he was one of the main characters in Awakening made him a possible contender for the third FE character, and his uniqueness was probably the reason Sakurai gave him the approval over Chrom. Ghirahim is not the main character of SS, he was just a one-time villain in Skyward Sword who will most likely be left aside. And honestly, the fact that he's not the recurring main villain for the entire Zelda series makes me doubt him.
Bear in mind though, I support Ghirahim, I just don't see him as likely as you people exaggerate.

But Ghirahim is one of the main characters in skyward, being one of the main antagonist, How do you know that Ghirahim will always be a one side villain? Let's remember that the only new zelda game that have gotten since skyward sword is a link between worlds, he could be a recurring zelda character for all we know

 

[Donalp15]

I don't think the comment about Impa having no moveset potential is very fair, since Sakurai has made movesets out of less of numerous ocassions.

 

[Kenith]

Sigh...the people who are on my side in this discussion don't exactly understand my point...

 

[Zhadgon]

Classic Ganon or nothing for the new Smash.

.n_n.

 

[Kenith]

Probably because he represents something different, that being magic. Tag that along with him being able to represent the other tactitians, and I think that may be the full reason why Sakurai decided to add him.

Note: None of the reasons he was included have anything to do with how many games Robin is in.

 

[Morbi]

I was contemplating which clones might have a chance as playable characters myself, there are some overt choices, and some less than ideal choices. For instance, I would certainly hope that Black Shadow would make the cut; however, one character seems to stand above the rest: Dr. Mario. Sakurai has stated that if the character has slightly different attributes or abilities that they warrant their own slot. Mario does not use pills or electricity in his current move-set and as far as I am aware, Dr. Mario cannot use F.L.U.D.D. I feel as though Dr. Mario is one of the "shoe-in" clone characters. He is a Melee veteran, and he was planned for Brawl to some extent. I would not mind seeing him as a "returning Melee veteran."

At the very least, he would add one additional Mario character so that the delusional Mewtwo detractors would feel comfortable with Pokemon having one more slot.

 

[KageJuin]

Hilda alt for Zelda!
Yuga newcomer!
Ravio Alt for Toon link!
Alttp/ALbW alt for Toon Link


awwww yeah!!

 

[BluePikmin11]

But Ghirahim is one of the main characters in skyward, being one of the main antagonist, How do you know that Ghirahim will always be a one side villain? Let's remember that the only new zelda game that have gotten since skyward sword is a link between worlds, he could be a recurring zelda character for all we know

Yeah, but Nintendo hasn't been marketing and pushing for Ghirahim lately to make him a very recurring character in the Zelda series, which is bad for Ghirahim's chances.

 

[praline]

Yeah, but Nintendo hasn't been marketing and pushing for Ghirahim lately to make him a very recurring character in the Zelda series, which is bad for Ghirahim's chances.

Also the fact that he is essentially evil Fi. He probably got locked away into the sword once Demise is defeated.

 

[Kenith]

Yeah, but Nintendo hasn't been marketing and pushing for Ghirahim lately to make him a very recurring character in the Zelda series, which is bad for Ghirahim's chances.

Well, they have been marketing Skyward Sword in general...like, a lot.
Just look at Smash Bros.

Also

 

[EmceeEspio]

I was contemplating which clones might have a chance as playable characters myself, there are some overt choices, and some less than ideal choices. For instance, I would certainly hope that Black Shadow would make the cut; however, one character seems to stand above the rest: Dr. Mario. Sakurai has stated that if the character has slightly different attributes or abilities that they warrant their own slot. Mario does not use pills or electricity in his current move-set and as far as I am aware, Dr. Mario cannot use F.L.U.D.D. I feel as though Dr. Mario is one of the "shoe-in" clone characters. He is a Melee veteran, and he was planned for Brawl to some extent. I would not mind seeing him as a "returning Melee veteran."

At the very least, he would add one additional Mario character so that the delusional Mewtwo detractors would feel comfortable with Pokemon having one more slot.

Doc was my favorite character and my secondary in Melee.

Would not be disappoint.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Yeah, but Nintendo hasn't been marketing and pushing for Ghirahim lately to make him a very recurring character in the Zelda series, which is bad for Ghirahim's chances.

What do you mean by marketing and pushing? Why should they be marketing him now? There has only been a single game since skyward and that was a Link between worlds, a game where Ghirahim appereance wouldn't have made any sense

 

[epicgordan]

If we do get a character reveal at Comic Con who do you think it would be? I have a feeling it would be Mewtwo.

Ness, Shulk, and Meta Knight in descending order of likelihood. If we are just getting a veteran, it'd be Ness via potd.

 

[Morbi]

Well, they have been marketing Skyward Sword in general...like, a lot.
Just look at Smash Bros.

Also

Who is that that Link is fighting?! Zant? Yuga? Ganon??????

He's the main villain.
And no, Robin did not appear in multiple games. Saying that the Tactician appearing in multiple games is like saying Marth is in every Fire Emblem game because there's a Lord in them.

EDIT: And frankly, the one-time character argument is moot, and, moreover, presumptuous.

I agree with this sentiment, we have "Robin" on the roster we do not have "Tactician."

 

[praline]

I was contemplating which clones might have a chance as playable characters myself, there are some overt choices, and some less than ideal choices. For instance, I would certainly hope that Black Shadow would make the cut; however, one character seems to stand above the rest: Dr. Mario. Sakurai has stated that if the character has slightly different attributes or abilities that they warrant their own slot. Mario does not use pills or electricity in his current move-set and as far as I am aware, Dr. Mario cannot use F.L.U.D.D. I feel as though Dr. Mario is one of the "shoe-in" clone characters. He is a Melee veteran, and he was planned for Brawl to some extent. I would not mind seeing him as a "returning Melee veteran."

At the very least, he would add one additional Mario character so that the delusional Mewtwo detractors would feel comfortable with Pokemon having one more slot.

I'd be cool with Dr. Mario returning as his own character again.