Character Competitive Impressions

[Ikes]

Here's what a tier list looks like in my opinion:
Top tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

there's a lot about this thats incredibly disagreeable

lucario in high tier? Wario below him? shulk in high tier? Toon Link in mid instead of high mid? link being that low? Ike being that low? Roy not being higher? Charizard not at least in low tier? Meta knight in low tier instead of high tier?

like are you trolling or is this serious

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Here's what a tier list looks like in my opinion:
Top tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

You forgot ZSS
But I don't agree with this list anyway.

 

[Ulevo]

Low Tier:

I was just in the mood for a cute story.

 

[hypersonicJD]

Here's what a tier list looks like in my opinion:
Top tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:

• 

Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

FIx'd.

Nah. This is honestly just my opinion. I don't know what you guys think.

 

[DunnoBro]

How so? Are a lot of them in the same pools or something?

The japanese civil war is taking place in las vegas

 

[Speed Boost]

Here's what a tier list looks like in my opinion:
Top tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

Care to elaborate on any of this? You have a lot of placements that would be considered unusual. Especially when taking the recent patch into consideration. Most consider Ike, Meta Knight, Marth, Lucina and Link to be but better than 1.0.6. Kirby, Yoshi, Doc and Pacman are often placed higher on tier lists as well. While Falco, Game & Watch, Robin, Jigglypuff, Donkey Kong, are considered lower than your placements. Those are just the highlights too.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

FIx'd.

Nah. This is honestly just my opinion. I don't know what you guys think.

NoZSSeither/10

 

[hypersonicJD]

I actually forgot her. I was going to edit it But she's definetily Top Tier. I'm going to fix my list.

 

[DunnoBro]

duck hunt too high, olimar too low

Roy WAYYYY too high. He's ass. I played my heart out with roy for 2 straight weeks, genuinely planned on manning him. Even entered xanadu with him. I found and practiced all sorts of set-ups and neutral options, but in the end his neutral is just garbage and his disadvantage state is awful.

He's like sheik without safe aerials or landings. Free as hell to combo. Yea, he's got great rewards... So do your opponent on you. There's no way he's ever having a good matchup vs the majority of top tiers.

 

[Smog Frog]

can someone give me a good explanation as to why people think is above , , in most tier lists?

also is NOT low tier. he's not top but he's not low either.

 

[Unknownkid]

Yes, Roy sucks. He is low tier. He needs more Buffs >_>.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Here's what a tier list looks like in my opinion:
Top tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

Move MK to bottom tier. I want him to get more buffs.

 

[bc1910]

Yes, Roy sucks. He is low tier. He needs more Buffs >_>.

Maybe his Down Smash should do 20% uncharged as well.

And his Up Smash.

 

[Pyr]

can someone give me a good explanation as to why people think is above , , in most tier lists?

also is NOT low tier. he's not top but he's not low either.

The second half of your signature answers your own question.

 

[san.]

Ike is in the right spot

Also, buff nair's startup by 2 frames, kthanks.

duck hunt too high, olimar too low

Roy WAYYYY too high. He's ***. I played my heart out with roy for 2 straight weeks, genuinely planned on manning him. Even entered xanadu with him. I found and practiced all sorts of set-ups and neutral options, but in the end his neutral is just garbage and his disadvantage state is awful.

He's like sheik without safe aerials or landings. Free as hell to combo. Yea, he's got great rewards... So do your opponent on you. There's no way he's ever having a good matchup vs the majority of top tiers.

Indeed. I think Roy's saving grace is that is nair and dtilt are really good. His power outside of fsmash, usmash, and maybe ftilt/dash attack aren't very good. UpB seemed good at first, but good DI allows you to live for a fairly long amount of time. Aerials lack kill power compared to true killing aerials, only killing far offstage.

His weight + absurd fall speed and decent size makes him among the easiest to kill off a throw combo in the game.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

duck hunt too high, olimar too low

Roy WAYYYY too high. He's ***. I played my heart out with roy for 2 straight weeks, genuinely planned on manning him. Even entered xanadu with him. I found and practiced all sorts of set-ups and neutral options, but in the end his neutral is just garbage and his disadvantage state is awful.

He's like sheik without safe aerials or landings. Free as hell to combo. Yea, he's got great rewards... So do your opponent on you. There's no way he's ever having a good matchup vs the majority of top tiers.

I literally just starting exploring roy today. It sucks to hear that. I'm still going to give him a shot though.

 

[Smog Frog]

The second half of your signature answers your own question.

no i'm seeking a legit explanation. i KNOW is overrated, but WHY is the general population seeing him as "better" than , , and ?

 

[Macedonian]

Anybody else Gona mention that he has the bird listed as high tier? I love my bird but he is nowhere near that placement

Also of luigi is overrated he sure gets a whole lot of tournament success/use for being so overrated, he is too tier IMO

 

[hypersonicJD]

No he doesn't suck. Neutral air and Down tilt are so damn safe. Forward Smash is pretty damn good. All of his smashes have some pretty good knockback and damage, his counter is pretty powerful, even Forward Tilt and Up Tilt can kill. And that is pretty huge. I don't think Roy is mid tier or even High mid tier. He's either High Tier or Top Tier. That's my opinion though.

By the way. Luigi can just stop Sonic with fireballs and he gets better combos. But Sonic can also do some pretty nasty stuff to Luigi with Forward Air or just stop Luigi with Forward Tilt. Zero Suit Samus is pretty good. But she has to rely on grabs to get to her most awesome combos. Pikachu can get killed pretty fast by Luigi. This are just excuses to why I think that Luigi is higher than them. But I do think that Ness and Lucas can kick Luigi's Ass.

 

[Pyr]

no i'm seeking a legit explanation. i KNOW is overrated, but WHY is the general population seeing him as "better" than , , or ?

It's my personal belief that, the stronger the fundamentals of the other player, the harder it is for a Luigi to do anything. It's really simple: Luigi has a massive reward for getting in. People that can't space/zone/play patiently/etc let him get in. And then we have people say "oh my god this character is good!" when they don't understand why Luigi is as good as he is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a character with 10+ bad matchups, scattered across all the tiers, and with the flaws that Luigi has, is not a top 3 character.

 

[Unknownkid]

Maybe his Down Smash should do 20% uncharged as well.

And his Up Smash.

I was being sarcastic but it will nice if his Aerial Up B had super armor. That is all I ask for. He isn't top tier material except for he is fast and hit hard.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife. And hide yo husbands cuz the

/r/smashbros Monthly Voted Tier List​

is up here! My horrid attempt to liven up the announcements of this thing and be funny aside, here's another chance to go vote and try to educate the masses. With three new characters I'm actually pretty stoked to see how this one ends up.

 

[Djent]

How so? Are a lot of them in the same pools or something?

Abadango is okay, but Nietono (probably) has to fight Ally and Zeto to make it into finals on winners side. Rain got it even worse, as he fights Nairo (projected) R1 semis.

EDIT: lolZeto. Although Rain > Nairo is the most probable early top seed upset.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Is Rain going to EVO or Apex 2016? I'm confused.

Or is it both?

 

[Djent]

Rain is going to EVO and hasn't said anything about Apex yet AFAIK. Ranai (similar name) is not going to EVO, but will be at Apex.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It's my personal belief that, the stronger the fundamentals of the other player, the harder it is for a Luigi to do anything. It's really simple: Luigi has a massive reward for getting in. People that can't space/zone/play patiently/etc let him get in. And then we have people say "oh my god this character is good!" when they don't understand why Luigi is as good as he is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a character with 10+ bad matchups, scattered across all the tiers, and with the flaws that Luigi has, is not a top 3 character.

The way I see Luigi in this game is sort if like a grappler. Despite his low mobility he gets extremely high rewards from grabs. He also has a decent enough projectile. So I think the mindset of people talking about Luigi should change a bit. He's going to get in and he's going to corner you unless you play Rosa or samus apparently.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of some underdog (or a player we haven't seen before) make it in to top 16 or 8?

 

[hypersonicJD]

Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of some underdog (or a player we haven't seen before) make it in to top 16 or 8?

It's pretty good though. Like abadango can make it. Or even an unknow Samus player. Or just ESAM using his Samus.

 

[DunnoBro]

Luigi's in an odd spot where he loses hard to the two best chars, then only to certain niche chars with good keep-away/anti-grab games. And to most everyone else he bodies HARD and EASILY.

Like, sheik vs ness is definitely sheik's favor, but you gotta play conservative as hell. Luigi can get bodied in his good MUs and still come out on top. It's a naturally more fun and easy way to play, you can practice him freely without the social stigma of "being campy" and as a result people tend to unlock luigi more completely than they do sheik.

Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of some underdog (or a player we haven't seen before) make it in to top 16 or 8?

Highish, but only players who dedicated themselves to customs from the beginning like Dapuffster, or character loyalists who benefit from customs like DKwill, or Aerolink. Don't expect fraud custom dks, villagers, or pikachus to get very far. I'm expecting a mostly default top 8/16.

 

[Unknownkid]

Luigi's in an odd spot where he loses hard to the two best chars, then only to certain niche chars with good keep-away/anti-grab games. And to most everyone else he bodies HARD and EASILY.

So like Brawl King DDD?

 

[Solfiner]

So, how good do you guys think Lucas would be if he got increased grab range and/or less grab end lag? Just curious.

 

[deepseadiva]

Can someone make a hypothetical buff/nerf thread already

 

[hypersonicJD]

He would be pretty damn good. His grab combos are not bad at all. But if you get a string of Neutral Airs. It's an almost guaranteed Stock. You can just chain Neutral Airs like Ness's Forward Air. But with even better properties.

 

[Speed Boost]

I main Dark Pit and I was curious of the community's general impression of the Pits. In my opinion he is the top third of the cast for sure. He had a lot of strengths.

Good combos out of down throw up until mid percents. Good kill options with Up Smash, Forward Throw, Side B, Back Air and Forward Smash. The ability to go deep offstage for spikes and followups. Great Dash Attack that allows him to catch landings and condition foes into shielding. Great Dash and Pivot Grabs to punish defensive options. Solid projectile to force some MUs to approach. Super Armor Side B allows him to punish overly commited rush down. Great aerials for juggling and followups. Nair and Dair are solid out of shield options. Solid Jab, DTilt and FTilt for boxing in neutral.

He doesn't seem to have any horrible MUs because of his well rounded kit. He is a very honest character that rewards being played with fundamentals and is especially strong at punishing mistakes. Characters that leave few openings even after mistakes are his hardest MUs.

 

[Solfiner]

I main Dark Pit and I was curious of the community's general impression of the Pits. In my opinion he is the top third of the cast for sure. He had a lot of strengths.

Good combos out of down throw up until mid percents. Good kill options with Up Smash, Forward Throw, Side B, Back Air and Forward Smash. The ability to go deep offstage for spikes and followups. Great Dash Attack that allows him to catch landings and condition foes into shielding. Great Dash and Pivot Grabs to punish defensive options. Solid projectile to force some MUs to approach. Super Armor Side B allows him to punish overly commited rush down. Great aerials for juggling and followups. Nair and Dair are solid out of shield options. Solid Jab, DTilt and FTilt for boxing in neutral.

He doesn't seem to have any horrible MUs because of his well rounded kit. He is a very honest character that rewards being played with fundamentals and is especially strong at punishing mistakes. Characters that leave few openings even after mistakes are his hardest MUs.

I've used both Pits as secondaries since the 3DS days and I agree with pretty much everything you said. Solid characters.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I main Dark Pit and I was curious of the community's general impression of the Pits. In my opinion he is the top third of the cast for sure. He had a lot of strengths.

Good combos out of down throw up until mid percents. Good kill options with Up Smash, Forward Throw, Side B, Back Air and Forward Smash. The ability to go deep offstage for spikes and followups. Great Dash Attack that allows him to catch landings and condition foes into shielding. Great Dash and Pivot Grabs to punish defensive options. Solid projectile to force some MUs to approach. Super Armor Side B allows him to punish overly commited rush down. Great aerials for juggling and followups. Nair and Dair are solid out of shield options. Solid Jab, DTilt and FTilt for boxing in neutral.

He doesn't seem to have any horrible MUs because of his well rounded kit. He is a very honest character that rewards being played with fundamentals and is especially strong at punishing mistakes. Characters that leave few openings even after mistakes are his hardest MUs.

I think the pits lose pretty badly to Rosalina.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Pit is a really solid character. The only problems I can think of when it comes to Pit is that
1) his reflector is one of the worst in the game since it lasts for a WHOPPING 64 frames at minimum, which leaves him pretty open to punishes if used incorrectly
2) Same goes for the Arms. They can be punished on hit and on whiff, so look out for that
Other than that, his frame data is really good (especially that frame 4 Nair) and I find him easy to pick up.Just gotta use his specials and off-stage game wisely.

I think the pits lose pretty badly to Rosalina.

By that do you mean Rosalina does better than the pits at mid-range, or is there more to it?

 

[KenMeister]

Pit is a really solid character. The only problems I can think of when it comes to Pit is that
1) his reflector is one of the worst in the game since it lasts for a WHOPPING 64 frames at minimum, which leaves him pretty open to punishes if used incorrectly
2) Same goes for the Arms. They can be punished on hit and on whiff, so look out for that
Other than that, his frame data is really good (especially that frame 4 Nair) and I find him easy to pick up.Just gotta use his specials and off-stage game wisely.

By that do you mean Rosalina does better than the pits at mid-range, or is there more to it?

They don't take advantage of her disadvantaged state well at all, which makes the punishment factor really skewed for them

 

[Shaya]

Can someone make a hypothetical buff/nerf thread already

I've said this multiple times before but a character subforum should be where this happens. Talk about the fluff there, where you're among similar minded people who like to play pretend.

I am really really really really really against making a cancer thread malignant edition in it's purest form. We've had a dedicated thread before but it didn't last long~

 

[Speed Boost]

I think the pits lose pretty badly to Rosalina.

I guess that makes sense because she would leave few opening even after mistakes and Luma is in the way. I don't have any real experience against tourney level RosaLumas, but it still doesn't surprise me to hear that it's his worst MU.