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I actually wanted to point that out;
Guard Breaker is really neat, but Grounding Blow's area of coverage is huge for offering Little Mac an additional avenue to threaten the skies. If someone SHs anything you jump punch them into the floor :v but you know that Dash Counter has my attention...
I really do enjoy Pikachu's quick attack. Its so versatile. Kind of like float but not as punishable when spaced.
I see nothing that hasn't happened on hundreds of Delfino matches in the past - and this stage has the advantage of not having zany blast-line changes.
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Yeah, Espy picking PS2 was a pretty big gamble. In all honesty, PS2 benefits Diddy more than Sonic.
Ah, so I imagine Ganon can pull off the same thing.
Speed's just so important that it's hard to want to use him over mario, especially in a custom environment where you can use the strong up-b.
Doc's damage per hit is actually very good. The reason why Mario's damage per hit is bad is because everything he combos into (with exception of F-air and Up-B) uses low damage. Doc can use U-Smash(14%) and B-air(14%) within his combo strings. Doc also has way more kill moves than Mario does, which gives him that luxury of abusing his high-damaging moves because he has more to choose from. Also, Doc's Down-B edgeguard can get stupid-early kills. I've killed Fox at 50% with it.
TTTTTsd
@Liberation
Here's my experience with Doc.
If you buffer it correctly, you can SH double U-air with Doc, which in some really situational circumstances is helpful in juggles.
You're actually right. Doc's short-hop height just makes it a bit more awkward.
It's particularly impressive considering Denti has more experience in that matchup than almost anyone (since he fought Bwett so many times). Also, I can't believe that I'm actually rooting for a Little Mac player after all that time I spent detesting the character in the early meta.
I've been saying this since the very beginning in the Stage Analysis thread but I got shouted down. 3 of the 4 transformations are just garbage and stall out the match until they go away.
My impression of Falcon is the same as it always was in Smash4: he's back to being good (Melee) Falcon. He still has pretty much the same issues he always had, but if he gets in on you it's going to hurt.
I think that Mega Man is a sleeper top 10 character TBH. He can just do so much with his kit. I'm probably a little off, but he is an excellent character who will only be limited in representation because of his odd style.
Top 15, yes. But top 10? Ehhh...
Doc's damage per hit is actually very good. The reason why Mario's damage per hit is bad is because everything he combos into (with exception of F-air and Up-B) uses low damage. Doc can use U-Smash(14%) and B-air(14%) within his combo strings. Doc also has way more kill moves than Mario does, which gives him that luxury of abusing his high-damaging moves because he has more to choose from. Also, Doc's Down-B edgeguard can get stupid-early kills. I've killed Fox at 50% with it.
Doc's recovery isn't good, but it's not terrible. It's main problem more than anything is distance, but the recovery itself is not bad as long as Doc maintains his second jump and protects himself with Down-B (which will stuff the majority of edgeguarding done against him that's not completely disjointed).
Doc's main problem that holds him back is his lack of offensive options. Mario has issues with approaching, so he has to bait out moves from his opponent and punish. Doc's low run speed only polarizes this weakness. For the majority of his matches you have to use his (admittedly good) pills to get anything to happen, otherwise he can be spaced out pretty easily. For that same reason, along with having a very poor jump height and his U-air having no auto-cancel, his advantaged state is quite sub-par.
Doc is basically Mario specced in defense. He's a niche character that can be better in certain MUs (vs Luigi is a big one.), but at the end of the day his glaring weaknesses overshadow his pretty good strengths.
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Thanks guys. I thought I'll get some scrubs, but I got everyone I wanted for their input. FYI Doc is not my main, DK/Ganon is. I used Doc against a Pikachu and then won 2 straight (only to get KO by another Pika). Dunno the MU spread, but which MU does Doc shine the most?
I feel like the characters that Mega Man has to worry about the most are generally the ones that can out-speed him in the air.
are disadvantaged matchups for Mega Man.I think Mega Man in disadvantage isn't quite as screwed as you make him out to be, though I guess it has less to do with him having amazing disadvantaged state options, and more the fact that he seems built to weather the storm. Between a heavy weight that makes him fairly difficult to KO and the fact that pellets are frame-2 (making them the fastest aerial in the game) he just needs that brief moment to stun the opponent and get things back to neutral.
I probably exaggerated his disadvantage state a little bit, but his 2 frame nair doesn't mean much when you realize it has a tiny hitbox in front of mega man. It isn't the ideal combo breaker, but it is amazing for landing considering it has NO landing lag.I feel like the characters that Mega Man has to worry about the most are generally the ones that can out-speed him in the air.
That would be:
A couple of them aren't so bad, namely DK and Sonic, but when you combine the ability to get past pellet walls with a few other tricks (Mario's cape, Yoshi's range, Jigglypuff's fantastic mobility), it often feels difficult for Mega Man to play his game properly. They're not necessarily terrible matchups for Mega Man (I'd say all except maybe Jigglypuff and ZSS are in the 4:6 to 6:4 range) but they can often feel that way.
Other than that, I suspect that
Villager's ability to camp the ledge exacerbates Mega Man's issues with killing reliably, and while Samus is awkward up-close, Mega Man is even more awkward, and so it stops being much of a weakness for Samus. Meta Knight and Zelda share the property of being very strong in disadvantage, and make trying to land a follow-up KO against them legitimately dangerous due to the KO power of their teleporting Up B's.
I think Mega Man in disadvantage isn't quite as screwed as you make him out to be, though I guess it has less to do with him having amazing disadvantaged state options, and more the fact that he seems built to weather the storm. Between a heavy weight that makes him fairly difficult to KO and the fact that pellets are frame-2 (making them the fastest aerial in the game) he just needs that brief moment to stun the opponent and get things back to neutral.
It's not the best nair in the world as you would normally use it, but the arm cannon hit box isn't as important as the fact that you have that and the pellets as well. If someone's underneath him it's terrible, but Mega Man has enough air speed to fade back while shooting pellets to get them to at least stop for a moment and let him get his bearings.
The mu between samus and megaman is even. it could be slightly in eithers favor but for now i would say its even.I feel like the characters that Mega Man has to worry about the most are generally the ones that can out-speed him in the air.
That would be:
A couple of them aren't so bad, namely DK and Sonic, but when you combine the ability to get past pellet walls with a few other tricks (Mario's cape, Yoshi's range, Jigglypuff's fantastic mobility), it often feels difficult for Mega Man to play his game properly. They're not necessarily terrible matchups for Mega Man (I'd say all except maybe Jigglypuff and ZSS are in the 4:6 to 6:4 range) but they can often feel that way.
Other than that, I suspect that
Villager's ability to camp the ledge exacerbates Mega Man's issues with killing reliably, and while Samus is awkward up-close, Mega Man is even more awkward, and so it stops being much of a weakness for Samus. Meta Knight and Zelda share the property of being very strong in disadvantage, and make trying to land a follow-up KO against them legitimately dangerous due to the KO power of their teleporting Up B's.
I think Mega Man in disadvantage isn't quite as screwed as you make him out to be, though I guess it has less to do with him having amazing disadvantaged state options, and more the fact that he seems built to weather the storm. Between a heavy weight that makes him fairly difficult to KO and the fact that pellets are frame-2 (making them the fastest aerial in the game) he just needs that brief moment to stun the opponent and get things back to neutral.
It might just be that Samus feels difficult to fight against, a grass is greener on the other side deal. It sort of reminds me of the fact that, just recently, someone here (maybe @Antonykun ?) mentioned that, for Villager, Mega Man can be an annoying matchup. What makes this so funny is that, to a Mega Man player, Villager is an annoying matchup too. While both people think the other is Satan incarnate, the matchup might be closer than either believes.
Regards to air speed, Mega Man's anti-air is great. SH UAir, SH pellet, Usmash, utilt... Combined with the fact that your opponent has to respect utilt and the possibility of powershield>sweetspot utilt can make approaching him from the air scary.I feel like the characters that Mega Man has to worry about the most are generally the ones that can out-speed him in the air.
That would be:
A couple of them aren't so bad, namely DK and Sonic, but when you combine the ability to get past pellet walls with a few other tricks (Mario's cape, Yoshi's range, Jigglypuff's fantastic mobility), it often feels difficult for Mega Man to play his game properly. They're not necessarily terrible matchups for Mega Man (I'd say all except maybe Jigglypuff and ZSS are in the 4:6 to 6:4 range) but they can often feel that way.
Other than that, I suspect that
Villager's ability to camp the ledge exacerbates Mega Man's issues with killing reliably, and while Samus is awkward up-close, Mega Man is even more awkward, and so it stops being much of a weakness for Samus. Meta Knight and Zelda share the property of being very strong in disadvantage, and make trying to land a follow-up KO against them legitimately dangerous due to the KO power of their teleporting Up B's.
loses her edge guarding game to Rush, since the burst vertical is an option she can't cover. Mega Man can also stay safe from Rest by just being safe in general while out ranging her with BAir disjoints. She likes to weave and camp and stay safe at a range that's just outside of most melee ranges... but Mega Man shoots projectiles so she has to be more aggressive. Up smash OOS is key. goes back in forth in my head and on the boards. It is probably even or slightly in Yoshi's favor. They both keep each other out well and the zoning battle can be real fun. His range isn't like DK's range, so there's plenty of room to pellet. Leaf shield+footstool is goodnight for low recoveries from Yoshi. is being discussed now. He's such a weird character I don't even pretend to understand him (and a couple people on the Mega Man boards feel the same). Disjoints help, dtilt beats chomp, but umm... yeah. It seems like the majority of Mega Mans think it's in his favor a bit. loses her paralyzer game and can't out space Mega. Her kills are either difficult (BAir on a short character) or incredibly risky (whiffed grab is a utilt). UAirs do good work, but we have it as in Mega's favor.I've touched on. 's cape isn't too big of a factor, it's more the fact that he combos Mega well. However, Mario loses neutral hard (fireballs can get canceled or traded with fsmash/run under usmash/uair), gets edge guarded, and combo'd by BAirs. And how Mario is going to have a tough time KO'ing. RAR BAir for Mega beats a lot of aerial approaches and is especially good against Mario's short range. is super light and the bucket is really a non-issue in the matchup. He has approach issues. Mega Man boards just went over this and, while he can combo us well, he has to get in. Similar to Mario, the usmash invincibility doesn't really mean much if Mega doesn't approach through the air. loses to Mega. - Yeah, the villager boards have trouble with Mega. Personally, and talking to some other Mega Mans, I think Mega wins this slightly. Camping the ledge is dangerous, as no ledge invincibility = easy DAir target (Also, run off BAir). Villager will find it hard to kill Mega, and metal blades blow up Lloids allowing Mega to avoid those traps. When being aggressive, Villager likes to use his lingering aerials, but the anti-air kit (most notably SH UAir) works so well against him. Villager's aerial blind spot is diagonally down, and that's the only blind spot of Mega Man's anti-air kit (sans utilt). Without a good grab, Mega can safely sit in shield against a lot of Villager's stuff.loses to pellets. With a charged shot, she has one shot and a chance, but she can't roll, she can't approach from the air... Even if she catches him shooting pellets, he can jump while shooting to avoid it. She just loses to pellets.'s teleporting up B... well, Mega Man just has to be ready to shield>dsmash or move while shooting. She also can't approach well and gets outspaced safely. With a poor uair for juggling, Mega Man doesn't really need to fear... anything.
I'm sorry but Samus is boldly hard countered by Megaman.
Locke 06
amusingly sums it up quite well but I'll go in detail because I personally played this MU in tournament. Missiles are clanked by pellets. Uncharged Shots are clanked by pellets, F-tilt loses to pellets, Dash Attack loses to pellets, every single aerial Samus has loses to pellets. Megaman destroys Samus at mid-range so badly that this is not even a matter of player skill and mindgames. Megaman just has stay right outside of Samus' F-tilt, and Samus can't do a ****ing thing. 
Super missiles eat pellets after pellets go stale though. (They have to go really stale... It happens). But yeah... I don't want to say it's that bad, since she can combo him well and she does have the charge shot... But it is at best 30-70.I'm sorry but Samus is boldly hard countered by Megaman.
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Add on the fact that all of Megaman's other projectiles cancels out Samus' projectiles, and Megaman has the easiest time B-airing Samus due to her large frame, and D-air giving Megaman a safe option that covers Samus' recovery and this MU is ****ed.
Samus' only option is to go Full-on For Glory Mode and camp like a madwoman, and hope Megaman is too scared to spam pellets while she has charged shot primed so you can actually do stuff.
But I'd go as far as to say this is an 80:20 Disadvantage for Samus. It's that bad.
If Samus' moves were transcendent, just how much better would she be? Seriously, her priority is the thing I see cited as by far her biggest weakness. Do you think being transcendent on at least her aerials would make the match-up more even or is she still doomed? I can't believe everyone slept so hard on Mega Man simply because he was awkward and takes practice. People used to say he was garbage...I guess Zucco showed them.I'm sorry but Samus is boldly hard countered by Megaman.
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Add on the fact that all of Megaman's other projectiles cancels out Samus' projectiles, and Megaman has the easiest time B-airing Samus due to her large frame, and D-air giving Megaman a safe option that covers Samus' recovery and this MU is ****ed.
Samus' only option is to go Full-on For Glory Mode and camp like a madwoman, and hope Megaman is too scared to spam pellets while she has charged shot primed so you can actually do stuff.
But I'd go as far as to say this is an 80:20 Disadvantage for Samus. It's that bad.
Well she definitely out speeds us and has better air mobility. We can get out of her ftilt shenanigans, but fair is an issue for us since it beats a lot of our aerials. Its a very irritating match up. I believe its 60:40 shiek though. I haven't had too much of an issue with sheik but I still believe its a losing match up.
