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Change what you like.....all you need is to like a top tier......then you're giving up what you like for something you like and increases your chances of winning.
unlike most top tiers she requires work to play.
You have some valid points, at least as far as safety goes. I'm probably slightly uninformed since my ZSS experience is at least half of my Sheik MU experience. Bouncing Fish feels better from an offensive standpoint and Flip Jump from a defensive one, but I'm probably wrong.
Not going to say you're wrong (heck, my Pokémon experience reinforces it) but what it really comes down to is that I play the characters I want to play. None of the top tiers currently appeal to me, neither in terms of the characters themselves nor in terms of gameplay. Pikachu is probably the closest, though. I'd probably get better results if I used better characters, but at the same time I feel that playing characters with more limitations has given me the ability to work around those limitations in many instances.
Seriously what? I'm not complaining, just stated my tendencies. Heck, I embrace them and enjoy bopping people with my bad characters.
Maybe, Sheik's not for everyone. I prefer ZSS and Pikachu's movesets to Sheik, even though i'm decent with her.
i dont like fast characters and probably never will. it does not make me masochist for staying with what i like. all im saying is that there isstraight up flaws to telling someone to just switch characters if i was playing to make money sure. if i was playing to be the best i sure as hell want to be known for using a character i enjoy personaly.
There's certain limitations that can't be worked around. There's plenty of characterswho are strong in this game I see no reason to intentionally limit yourself. I'd pick up pikachu if I were you that's going to help you in the long run. At the very least if you don't want to drop whoever you play you should play a strong character also.
Can't wait til your "strong" secondaries get bodied by better players.
Sorry but that's not even comparable due to the engine of Smash and how the neutral/footsies are much more complex than Street Fighter. Zangief has to commit much more to get in against campy characters (Ex Green Hand, risky jump-ins etc). Sonic can actually run circles going for stray hits while being relatively safe in a lot of cases, then for most characters it's a herculean task to make a comeback once Sonic has the % lead and decides to play campy through sheer mobility (something that also wouldn't be possible in SF because of the linearity of movement options.)
Hey the same thing will happen with your low tier main. If you want to avoid getting bodied then pick a top tier......
is a really bad character? samus just placed 8th in a 200+ tourny.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I haven't been keeping updated....
This sort of mentality is a ****ing joke. It still comes down to the player, homie.
ryuga gets bodied as shiek and wrecks with ike. whats that say?
Well. Low on the tier list. Less abusable stuff. Super clear weaknesses. Even if it's only in friendlies.
Are you implying Ike is bad?
I've been trying to see how easy it is to just react to the DI during the first hits of up b. At lower percents i'm pretty sure you can but at higher percents of rage personally I couldn't but my reaction time isn't the greatest. It might be possible though. Also I'm pretty sure you can land bair on short characters when they are on the ground but it's kind of hard. If you can you don't even need to be consistent with it you just need to make them scared to crouch under it.The mobility specials in a free moving engine are way too good, as many have said.
To combat them you generally need to give a lot of respect and think 2-3 steps ahead of the opponent. It sucks because against the best characters, their frame data/neutral state is so strong that you can't just play a game where you're able to react to those movement specials while covering other things.
Anyway.
ZSS isn't easy.
I don't think she universally beats everyone. She's got a lot of potential though.
BUT.
her neutral b laser is not god tier. It isn't "safe" on shield or a frame trap unless charged (a lot), you can definitely take a positional advantage gain against her if you're shielding it properly. Most characters can completely out prioritise it with their aerials and smack her (which is an interesting nuance of the sheik MU where her fair isn't doing enough damage to beat it out, so ZSS gets guaranteed clashing stun Up-B's)
Her down B is quite good but definitely not disgusting like bouncing fish or quick attack at all, not even close. I'm not sure how the invincibility works with the move (perhaps moving the stick for 'rotations' is what causes it or something?), but it's somewhat consistent for a things like thunder, all of diddy's aerials, etc etc to just 'win' through the spin. It can be used aggressively but it's high risk / high reward.
It's one of the best moves in double though, holy crap. ZSS can literally be controlling two fights on opposite sides of the stage at the same time better than most (if not everyone) because of how destructive ground stomps / meteorish footstools / super kicks can be when covered by your partner and the speed
Up-B is very powerful, but somewhat like Ness if you're ramboing into her off stage and can pop out with DI you'll kill her in horizontal scenarios. If she loses down-b she's in a lot of trouble usually, but it isn't too bad if you have your mid air jump, better players expect the mid air jump option too though. It roofying and killing early is a mixture of people not having optimal DI (you want to go horizontally) and not respecting that you can't DI/shuffle out of it if ZSS picks 1 of the 3 angles properly a lot of the time (unless you're little mac).
Her challenging (not necessarily losing) match ups include
Possibly/probably loses to; Greninja seems hard too? Olimar?
*cough Ganondorf and Link do pretty well cough*
Anyway a point on ZSS is that she still struggles against smart shielding at mid-range. Don't over shield, that's silly (she's fine at waiting it out, and that's actually a really good situation for her a lot of the time when she reads shields, she can stand and react eventually). But unless neutral-b is charged it's pretty easy to negate it as a pressure tool, if you're a short character nair, fair, uair, bair, zair are no longer immediate or sometimes ever usable options (rar bair does swipe short characters sometimes though I should check the heights sometime).
ZSS can get grabs in this game better than in Brawl imo due to the shield changes, but at the same time I don't think people should be getting grabbed after any form of shield pressure; don't do silly rolls or jumps.
Beyond Up-B set ups or OoS punishes (based 4 frames), she can really struggle to kill, often only being able to fish for back airs. Back air is long range and generally safe but it's only out for 2 frames and can be crouched under. If people get consistent/better at shuffling out of Up-B she'll be kinda screwed tbqh. But i'm in the boat that the right position + right angle of up-b guarantees it 90% of the time.
no he was just implying that anyones who not in high tier gets bodied besised i dont think anyones that bad.
Terios the Hedgehog
not really answering my question bud, samus still placed really damn well.
It isn't new, it's just not something you see often I'd imagine.
His Ike is better than his shiek.
but sheiks better and he puts time into his shiek why shouldent he just quit ike?
=(because he's already spent the time on ike and quitting would be a huge ****ing waste
Despite being a video game.
A 200 person tournament doesn't have 200 pro-level top players competing, though. Top 8 is great, but a consistent top level placement by multiple Samus players is more indicative of her actual potential.
well hes insinuating that its a waste to spend time on character below certain peramiters so pick a top tier.i am sad to confess i have committed the sin of maining
is it too late to switch? i started maining him 4 weeks ago.
because he's already spent the time on ike and quitting would be a huge ****ing waste
Conda
while this is correct it is also incorrect in the same way. so far there is only 2 notible luigi mains and thier tourny placement at larger tournys is almost nonexsistant why are we placing luigi high? or even mario for that matter with really only one top level playing going anywhere with him.
Conda
time out.
This will always be an issue in Smash. Representation for inherently weaker characters will always be less and as a result you will either see the handful of excellent users of the characters placing or the rest of the player base failing to achieve anything meaningful. Heck, I'll bring up villager for a Smash 4 example. Several players have posted here saying that they feel Villager is really good, possibly top 15 (which I don't agree with BTW). There are a few Villager mains who are placing (zeezee is the main one) but few players are opting to choose Villager over others. How many of these wins are from player superiority or from matchup inexperience? Probably a little of both. What ends up happening is you have 90% of the best players using 10 or fewer characters that are the best, 8% using the other decent ones, and 2% using those that are just ineffective.@
The problem with any of this is representation.
How many Donkey Kongs, Samus', etc do you think are actually even their to begin with?
If there is only one "top" player who plays Samus, you'll never have multiple Samus players to place.
Actually you can look @ ESam in NA given there is only slowly a Pika playerbase developing. Sure Pika places in other locations throughout the world but given the context of discussion is unfortunately primarily based around NA/EU, then Pikachu should be put on blast like Samus. Except it's not necessary.
Its the same problem with that smashladder ranking list that came out awhile ago. There was like 10 characters that weren't even played which said nothing about their potential.
You won't know until they go up against ZeRo and M2K's Diddys, which on paper and in practice are doing much better than anyone else pretty much. You can win locals and such all you want, but ZeRo showed the strongest and more effortless wins with his skilled Diddy last night. I watch amazing Ganons and Charizards, and all I see are the ways ZeRo would destroy them without a sweat. APEX will show us how dominant these other players are with their mains. On paper, they don't hold a candle to what we've seen in the past 2 days.no he was just implying that anyones who not in high tier gets bodied besised i dont think anyones that bad.
@
Dk placed really damn well at The come Up Tourny
Ganons placing well overseas with gungnir
Trela and bloodcrosses charazard placing well.
once again who is bad?
Do i have to though.
you dont have to per se, but its going to require a ****ton more work.
Is working a bad thing?
Conda
one again ima chop that up to zero being better than basically every body else he had similar preformances when he played bowser before patch. i just dont see a reason to flip out cuz its diddy. its zero we should flipping out about.
Main whoever you want.i am sad to confess i have committed the sin of maining
is it too late to switch? i started maining him 4 weeks ago.
I think Sonic is the devil but I will always encourage people to play Sanic if that is who they enjoy
