Character Competitive Impressions

[Nabbitnator]

What is really considered bad? I'm a tad confused. I see stuff like falco and luigi being "low tier" (I know there are no tiers yet) but when I decide to go to training mode to see what they're options are they're decent. Not omg this is amazing but enough to do its job.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I honestly don't understand how Sonic ignores neutral.
But im tired of reading this for the past...40? pages and not knowing what the flying **** is being talked about.
His Speed? Spindashes? How do these ignore neutral wtf.
As far as the former, so are Falcon, Shulk, Paletuna.
If Spindash...well then Paletuna again.

I've sat here reading it all like "huh? Sonic post, better ignore that, they're speaking some other language".
"Top tier, no respect for neutral, everyone has to play his game, disgusting, he and pikachu are atrocities"
"Eh he's not OP or anything just annoying"
wtf are you talking about in relation to sonic, let me into this inner circle of Sonic haters.

 

[TTTTTsd]

@ Nabbitnator I guess in this case "bad" is a relative term.

Nobody in this game is like Melee Kirby or Brawl Ganondorf, really. Most everyone can do SOMETHING right, it's really more a matter of "The other characters are just BETTER", perse.

 

[NairWizard]

I honestly don't understand how Sonic ignores neutral.
But im tired of reading this for the past...40? pages and not knowing what the flying **** is being talked about.
His Speed? Spindashes? How do these ignore neutral wtf.
As far as the former, so are Falcon, Shulk, Paletuna.
If Spindash...well then Paletuna again.

I've sat here reading it all like "huh? Sonic post, better ignore that, they're speaking some other language".
"Top tier, no respect for neutral, everyone has to play his game, disgusting, he and pikachu are atrocities"
"Eh he's not OP or anything just annoying"
wtf are you talking about in relation to sonic, let me into this inner circle of Sonic haters.

Sonic doesn't ignore neutral.

Pikachu certainly doesn't (those who say that are overrating Quick Attack I'm pretty sure: it's not a good approach most of the time).

Sonic is supposedly not fun to fight when he's just mixing up spindash and grab attempts over and over again because you have to shield the incoming spindash (or time your reaction perfectly) and then try to punish him during the endlag. It's just a matter of playing very patiently. I don't really agree with this mentality; I think that Little Mac is far more boring to fight overall, but I don't really think that any character is "boring" to fight. The mental battle is what matters to me, and you get that in every matchup.

However, Hammer Spin Dash is really absurdly good, so I think it may make Sonic a little *too* good. But I haven't worked out a good strategy against it yet, other than Ike's side-b, which tears through it as though it were paper.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I honestly don't understand how Sonic ignores neutral.
But im tired of reading this for the past...40? pages and not knowing what the flying **** is being talked about.
His Speed? Spindashes? How do these ignore neutral wtf.
As far as the former, so are Falcon, Shulk, Paletuna.
If Spindash...well then Paletuna again.

I've sat here reading it all like "huh? Sonic post, better ignore that, they're speaking some other language".
"Top tier, no respect for neutral, everyone has to play his game, disgusting, he and pikachu are atrocities"
"Eh he's not OP or anything just annoying"
wtf are you talking about in relation to sonic, let me into this inner circle of Sonic haters.

I don't pay enough attention to sonic but all I mostly see is spin dash. by the way I that thing grab able? Life would be so much easier if you could grab that just as easy as egg roll.

@ TTTTTsd with that it doesn't sound so bad. Its like you're able to find ways around certain stuff (maybe not around some of diddy's bs) and deal with the match ups.

speaking of diddy why am I seeing stuff like banning him all of a sudden? he's not brawl mk.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Can someone please talk about Hammer Spin Dash?

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and I still have no clue what this move even does that's so special.

All I hear is how great it is without any explanation.

 

[HeroMystic]

Luigi ain't ignoring the neutral game. That's simply having some options in said game.

If you want something close to truly ignoring, look at Sonic or maybe Little Mac to some extent.

It was mostly hyperbole. Ultimately everyone has to play the neutral game, I just feel Luigi has some pretty good options to get inside in comparison to others around his level.

I feel Little Mac actually has to pay attention the most during the neutral game out of any other character, because his style is all about having the momentum and keeping it throughout the entire match. Taking a hit confirm that leads to him being juggled can lead him off the stage, where his only option is Side-B.

I played against a Sonic a few times. He's the very definition of a "hit 'n run" character.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

alright ima bring up a few character i use and my impressions on them.


Pit
hes my main so i think my information i gathered wont be to off.
I feel pit shines the most in neutral the amount of spacing and range tools it can be exclusively easy to bring your self into advantagous position and rack some damage.
Pits grab game is solid having solid followups to down throw.
Pit can deviously frame trap using arrows apon opponents landing to bait out potential air dodges the pit can punish.
Run speed is above average and can be use effectivly in a rush down playstyle. paired with an exceptionaly fast dash attack and u got somthing.

But probably his biggest problem holding him back is the lack of reliable kill options.
like sure he can gimp well. But it can still drag a match on with an opponent whos character has god tier recovery. aka zzs, pit, zelda, diddy, pika, and more.
pit has threatening ground kill options but its just 2 rather punishable ones.
i would say everything would be dandy if pit could set up into f smash easyer but he cant.
Hes just dying to have a strong arial kill move. bair is good but stuational and not very usfull for offensive.
but overall verdict. lowest of high tier. im sure a person whos precision in god like would be destructive on pit.

Falco

well nothing others have not said really hes alot better than what lazer fanboys make him to be.

ganon

once again hes been talked about but i for one have got to say i enjoy his default down b very much. i find it a very usefull lingering hitbox to punish roll. and of course the easy kills with air down b when people dont respect you.

Dk

honestly anybody who think hes low tier has no thumbs. hes one of the most disgusting frame trappers in the game and his up tilt is god tier. longer tilt range than marth loads of damage and great arials. wills really gunna threaten people once he figures him out more.

weaknesses? big. nothing changed in that regard.

peach

probably the most technecal character in the game. but god damn is she good. yeah she has problems with presurue and her grab range is poo, but her tools as so gud. and her fair is the most rediculous thing in this game. well actually diddys up air takes that but seriously that fair makes mid weights look like light weights. dont get me started on her new up air jeezus the active frames and range on that. Turnips are still good. just put urself in an a safer postion same utility.

verdict potential top tier.

 

[Chuva]

I feel this necessity of finding "who is low tier/bottom tier" is becoming too obsessive. We shouldn't expect nor have a reason to have a traditional, well-structured tier list with multiple power gaps so early in the game, especially in what seems to be the most balanced Smash game yet.

 

[Luco]

I dunno, it's just a mental thing of mine; but I kinda enjoy having a rough idea of a malleable tier list out in my head and then allow it to change (possibly drastically) as time goes on.

 

[Chuva]

Well I admit that I also like to make qualitative analysis of everything and crafting tier lists is quite enjoyable, it's just that it might be too early to be conclusive about anything without substantial comparison.

For example: Some people claim that Robin is a "High-Mid tier" character and others say Ganon is a "Low-Mid tier", but in practice is the power gap between those two characters really that big? I can honestly see both Robin and Ganon having a good chance of placing well in a local or regional, so how exactly do we measure such reported discrepancy? Maybe matchup charts?

 

[Shaya]

I have a hard time fixating on bottom tier too, because I can't really pick out any character who just flat out loses to everyone/everything and barely feels playable.
Except for Meta Knight pre.1.04, but NOW HE'S DIAMONDS.

In Brawl, Captain Falcon was this extremely obvious first look "wow he's bad" situation, he ended up last on the tier list, although eventually everyone figured out Ganondorf was worse, although most considered him extremely bad from the get go as well.
Everything else on the initial tier list from 3rd last upwards was like "surprising" to most people. I remember "wow link's 3rd last?" although I admit not really knowing much about any character during early Brawl bar Marth and the high tiers (and our scenes common picks of pit, wolf, dk [we had hundreds]). But at the time I didn't really see how it was obvious he was third last (over time it became clear he was definitely a bottom tier though; thanks Falco/Dedede).

Right now we have some really good characters about, but no characters who just lose to them all horrendously (or more so than others get beaten by them). Kinda crazy to think the first tier list was primarily shaped by Dedede and Falco chain grabs (oh you cannot survive the down throw down air? gg).

 

[Conda]

Can someone please talk about Hammer Spin Dash?

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and I still have no clue what this move even does that's so special.

All I hear is how great it is without any explanation.

The argument I've heard, and which makes some sense, is that it is generally too fast for most human reaction times to react to it in any decent way, and has big reward when landed.

For example: Some people claim that Robin is a "High-Mid tier" character and others say Ganon is a "Low-Mid tier", but in practice is the power gap between those two characters really that big?

Nobody knows, speculation is fun though. As John Cleese says, "Nobody actually knows what they're talking about."

 

[Road Death Wheel]

on the note of tier lists I belive they are the most un healthy thing to occur in a competitive comunity and is the number 1 reason why many games stagnate without sequals.

lets look at pokemon for an example in the begining of a new games life cycle the comeptive comunjty is experimentive ans exploring. this will continue to occur untill the smogon community develops what are considered OU pokemon and almost all the others will never be seen again.
its what makes OU so boring to me. like can i find a match without rotom and heatran please?

and i think tier lists do the exact same thing in smash. for that i feel once an established tier list comes out only the few who are dedicated try to make them better and find there hidden potential. while all the other characters are getting picked up by hundred of players developing there meta while the considered low tier dedicated experimenter and there group of ten trying to build that characters meta but its way more obvious that the hundred of players are going to find more than the ten. i feel tier list limit peoples exploration of pther characters, limits character variaty in tournys and the cycle continues. and rarly is a character brought up unless by a dedicated professional player. witch is why i love will, gunnire, and hungry box so much.


like i once heard orion complementing people who want to be the best ganon. but he said he just has different goals and wants to see how good he is in general. But what i wanted to say at that moment was I dont want to be the best ganon or pit or (insert character) i just wana prove that these characters can beat the suposed top tiers to a pulp and that the tier list is bonked.

 

[HeroMystic]

I feel this necessity of finding "who is low tier/bottom tier" is becoming too obsessive. We shouldn't expect nor have a reason to have a traditional, well-structured tier list with multiple power gaps so early in the game, especially in what seems to be the most balanced Smash game yet.

My train of thought is usually "man, this character is really unconventional. I wonder if anyone will be able to figure out a solid playstyle with him/her/it".

Right now, that pattern of thought is current with Wii Fit Trainer, Megaman, and Shulk. Honestly, the only character I thought that was immediately bad was Ike, but watching Ryuga changed my ways, and that was before the patch.

Tier lists are interesting to speculate though, because it brings out opinions from most players, especially ones who are hardcore about their mains.

 

[Conda]

@ Road Death Wheel
Tier lists may give sheepish people a shepherd to follow, yes. But they're 'bad' in the way statistics or science is 'bad' (aka - they're not).

It's just stats, and isn't bad inherently. People can use it or try and come up with their own in perhaps reductive ways, for sure. Discussion about tier lists can often suck and mostly be about who people think needs buffs and nerfs. It's this kind of 'discussion' and 'mentality' that sucks, not statistical lists themselves.

There's nothing 'bad' about actual tier lists that develop over years - they're meant to simply show you tournament results and who statistically is faring better in the climate of how competitive players are currently playing the game at a high level (aka metagame).

 

[Shaya]

Knowledge should proliferate. The cultural impact of misconceived 'knowledge' can be damaging, but it has to happen anyway.

I played Pokemon competitively for a while, I tried many teams throughout OU, and also played UU a lot as the strains of seeing 5/6 of the same pokemon for hundreds/thousands of matches got to me.

It's just kinda how competitive gaming works. Denying it is almost like denying science, numbers, etc.

If we're lucky the gaps will be so small that people are rewarded for their efforts enough so all characters get explored to their full potential. Otherwise we hope characters reach their full potential eventually. Tier lists or not, we'll otherwise be looking at tournament statistics (which is what came first before an official tier list, btw).

Data and tier lists speeds things up, and that's what this new age world is all about!

 

[Road Death Wheel]

@ Road Death Wheel
Tier lists may give sheepish people a shepherd to follow, yes. But they're 'bad' in the way statistics or science is 'bad' (aka - they're not).

It's just stats, and isn't bad inherently. People can use it or try and come up with their own in perhaps reductive ways, for sure. But there's nothing 'bad' about actual tier lists that competitive games naturally develop over years.

perhaps but its just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I honestly don't understand how Sonic ignores neutral.
But im tired of reading this for the past...40? pages and not knowing what the flying **** is being talked about.
His Speed? Spindashes? How do these ignore neutral wtf.
As far as the former, so are Falcon, Shulk, Paletuna.
If Spindash...well then Paletuna again.

I've sat here reading it all like "huh? Sonic post, better ignore that, they're speaking some other language".
"Top tier, no respect for neutral, everyone has to play his game, disgusting, he and pikachu are atrocities"
"Eh he's not OP or anything just annoying"
wtf are you talking about in relation to sonic, let me into this inner circle of Sonic haters.

Way to misrepresent things.

Sonic more accurately completely ignores midrange. And this is not healthy for the game when you are simultaneously a character that is very difficult to trap. Pikachu has the same design issues. Very hard to trap, can't seriously be reacted to in midrange. Pikachu doesn't get KOs as easily as Sonic though, so he's not as good overall. But his gameplan by design is a headache.

There basically is no intelligent way to really play against Sonic if you don't have an extremely safe projectile to stop his ground mobility. He slows the game down to a crawl, because trying to pin him down is for the most part extremely unproductive. Sonic vs most characters devolves into a guessing game that is mostly in his favor numerically. He gets in on you for free, and you only really win against him if he messes up. In Brawl, he was bad because his reward was a lot worse in comparison. He was still completely toxic to play against.

Captain Falcon also ignores midrange. So does Little Mac. Big difference is they pay a price for dominant mobility in their negative state. Trying to pin them down is not a completely bad idea, because they don't get out of traps easily. So there's strategically a lot of intelligent gameplay involved in playing against these characters. But Sonic, okay, you guess right and hit him. Now what? Each time Sonic gets in on you in contrast, he probably hurt you more

I would assume Palutena on an optimal custom load though probably commits similar crimes to Sonic, but I haven't seen much from her.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Way to misrepresent things.

Sonic more accurately completely ignores midrange. And this is not healthy for the game when you are simultaneously a character that is very difficult to trap. Pikachu has the same design issues. Very hard to trap, can't seriously be reacted to in midrange.

There basically is no intelligent way to really play against Sonic if you don't have an extremely safe projectile to stop his ground mobility. He slows the game down to a crawl, because trying to pin him down is for the most part extremely unproductive. Sonic vs most characters devolves into a guessing game that is mostly in his favor numerically. He gets in on you for free, and you only really win against him if he messes up. In Brawl, he was bad because his reward was a lot worse in comparison. He was still completely toxic to play against.

Captain Falcon also ignores midrange. So does Little Mac. Big difference is they pay a price for dominant mobility in their negative state. Trying to pin them down is not a completely bad idea, because they don't get out of traps easily. So there's strategically a lot of intelligent gameplay involved in playing against these characters.

thats strange since my pit gets owned by sonics but if i switch to ganon. all those small taps i managed on my pit becomes explosivly rewarding on a character like ganon. since u know the damage an all. i taped u with pit. 3percent. ganon? 13 percent it really forces sonics to respect u and get that spacong u want xd.

 

[NairWizard]

Way to misrepresent things.

Sonic more accurately completely ignores midrange. And this is not healthy for the game when you are simultaneously a character that is very difficult to trap. Pikachu has the same design issues. Very hard to trap, can't seriously be reacted to in midrange. Pikachu doesn't get KOs as easily as Sonic though, so he's not as good overall. But his gameplan by design is a headache.

There basically is no intelligent way to really play against Sonic if you don't have an extremely safe projectile to stop his ground mobility. He slows the game down to a crawl, because trying to pin him down is for the most part extremely unproductive. Sonic vs most characters devolves into a guessing game that is mostly in his favor numerically. He gets in on you for free, and you only really win against him if he messes up. In Brawl, he was bad because his reward was a lot worse in comparison. He was still completely toxic to play against.

Captain Falcon also ignores midrange. So does Little Mac. Big difference is they pay a price for dominant mobility in their negative state. Trying to pin them down is not a completely bad idea, because they don't get out of traps easily. So there's strategically a lot of intelligent gameplay involved in playing against these characters. But Sonic, okay, you guess right and hit him. Now what? Each time Sonic gets in on you in contrast, he probably hurt you more

I would assume Palutena on an optimal custom load though probably commits similar crimes to Sonic, but I haven't seen much from her.

Miscategorization I think of Pikachu's gameplan. He doesn't try to get in with unreactable attacks in midrange: he tries to get in via safe aerials and footsies (d-tilt, f-tilt), plus Thunderjolt -> grab (with such an extremely short grab range, the mobility is almost a requirement). You are vastly overrating Quick Attack as an approach option: good Pikachus will use it, but only as a mixup.

Sonic doesn't just use Spindash as a mixup. It's his bread and butter. It's all he does. Well, that's not true. It's not ALL he does. But he can literally just charge spindash for a while (Hammer Spin Dash, that is), and wait for you to not be shielding, and then make you guess if he's going to jump, hit you, or just stop. It's very annoying that you have to guess against this move because it also hits very hard.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pikachu can still force you to respect the option of Quick Attack, because it has multiple uses in neutral. All of them require different responses which you cannot do reactively (one of the required responses is shielding in the event he does it directly for offensive purposes), and ultimately these allow Pikachu to always be at a positional advantage if he chooses.

The fact he actually has this option available means competitively, you need to respect it, especially since it's not something you can reactively counter. Right, I know more of his game revolves around more traditional solid midrange gameplay, but I ultimately believe it's poor design in this game to have an unreactable approach option and easy resets to neutral.

 

[Trifroze]

Sonic confirmed for El Fuerte.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

So then where is the cutoff in speed.

 

[Minordeth]

The hardest thing about a tier list for SSB4 will be watching the bottom half of the list come together. Given the seemingly smaller spread, bigger player bases are available to more characters. This will lead to a feedback loop where better players play within a larger range of characters that they feel they can win with. The more diverse the tournament results, the more attention to lower tier characters, the better the results, the more muddled the bottom half becomes.

This is a good thing, of course, akin to seeing Q's and Hugo's go deep in SF3:TS tournies.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I have a hard time fixating on bottom tier too, because I can't really pick out any character who just flat out loses to everyone/everything and barely feels playable.
Except for Meta Knight pre.1.04, but NOW HE'S DIAMONDS.

In Brawl, Captain Falcon was this extremely obvious first look "wow he's bad" situation, he ended up last on the tier list, although eventually everyone figured out Ganondorf was worse, although most considered him extremely bad from the get go as well.
Everything else on the initial tier list from 3rd last upwards was like "surprising" to most people. I remember "wow link's 3rd last?" although I admit not really knowing much about any character during early Brawl bar Marth and the high tiers (and our scenes common picks of pit, wolf, dk [we had hundreds]). But at the time I didn't really see how it was obvious he was third last (over time it became clear he was definitely a bottom tier though; thanks Falco/Dedede).

Right now we have some really good characters about, but no characters who just lose to them all horrendously (or more so than others get beaten by them). Kinda crazy to think the first tier list was primarily shaped by Dedede and Falco chain grabs (oh you cannot survive the down throw down air? gg).

Mii Swordsman is honestly the only character I think that might fit that, wow he is the worst, kind of bad tbh.

The rest of the cast not so much anymore.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

As long as Gunner isn't put in the same boat as Swrdman.
I think Gunner is better then Samus,DhD, megaman and Bowser Jr. As far as his contemporaries go.

 

[Kofu]

As long as Gunner isn't put in the same boat as Swrdman.
I think Gunner is better then Samus,DhD, megaman and Bowser Jr. As far as his contemporaries go.

And how is Gunner comparable to Bowser Jr. again? I'm not seeing the similarities. If you think he plays a campy sort of game you're sadly mistaken.

 

[X3I]

maybe:

Inb4 the bowser jrs/wiifits (insert your favourite character here) players come to yell at me.

G&W players can yell, or ?

 

[LostinpinK]

I'm starting to wonder if Donkey is not the best of the 4 heavies (DDD, Bowser, DK, Charizard), or at least very close to Bowser. I used to play him a lot in brawl, and not so much in sm4sh because the changes felt weird, but his speed and power are still incredible. And i'm not event talking about his customs.

 

[Feryn Hyrk]

Mii Swordsman is honestly the only character I think that might fit that, wow he is the worst, kind of bad tbh.

The rest of the cast not so much anymore.

Why is Mii Swordsman bad? I almost nevert play him but last time I played I remember looking at his custom moves options and thinking he has really good ones, he can even have 2 projectiles like Link but better ones (no need to charge) and a better recovery that mix ups spin attack with fox fire... how can he be bad when he has so many goos custom moves options?

I know that maybe he needs a different body build than the other other 2 Mii types since if he goes the fitest and smallest (ideal for Mii Brawler at least) his sword range gets to something like Toon Link, but still works.

 

[Luco]

I really don't feel Gunner is bad, in fact I think he's on the positive side of the roster. Basically having Villager's Fair (that allows you to wavebounce to the point where it's ridiculously safe) and doing Samus' job like 3 times better will do that for you.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Akumetsu]

Tier Lists...
Credibity depends on what they are based on and other stuff.
At least what I see on EvenHub for example sometimes just gives me a little wtf (Link in Top 15 for example).
Since basically everyone can vote a lot of random casual opinions will be reflected in the list.
Looking at competetive results is better here, but...
Meta isn't fix and developments will always happen with Characters, like discovering a new Strat, Idea for handling Match-Ups, etc.
And sometimes certain chars will get popular due to like 1 or 2 guys being really good with them, getting multiple top spots in tournaments, creating more followers, more tops, higher place in the tier list, etc.
And some other Chars may just sleep there waiting for someone worthy to pick them up.
Given time it will become clearer though, but that also depends on the patches.
Since it's probably the best balanced Smash out right now (dunno vs. Project M, no experience there) the Tiers will become harder to set though.

Good Tier List should be respected, but not taken for granted.

 

[Browny]

Knowledge should proliferate. The cultural impact of misconceived 'knowledge' can be damaging, but it has to happen anyway.

Are you... Are you saying that the smash backroom will now be visible to the public and no more hiding strategies, techniques and theories from the public for no reason?

Thats great! I agree Knowledge should proliferate too, its good that a higher-up on SWF wants to speed up game knowledge among the community as we all know what happens when they dont! (brawl matchup chart 1.0 rofl)

 

[Shaya]

Are you... Are you saying that the smash backroom will now be visible to the public and no more hiding strategies, techniques and theories from the public for no reason?

Thats great! I agree Knowledge should proliferate too, its good that a higher-up on SWF wants to speed up game knowledge among the community as we all know what happens when they dont! (brawl matchup chart 1.0 rofl)

I never really learned anything from said backroom in that regard. At least I don't think so.

And I thought the first proper match up chart we did included outsiders anyway? And if it didn't, it still was a pretty alright format that was a lot more conclusive than any other venture prior. It really didn't turn out as poorly as you seem to make out; considering it was a game of some 1300 match ups.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I still wish I had BBR before it became moot cause no more purple name ;;
Though if a Smash4 backroom is made it's good that things will change and the discussions and such will be visible now.
Or wouldn't mind if invisible first then once discussion is over they make it visible to the public but every thread locked so they can't be bumping it weeks or months later whenever they feel like releasing it.

And are we talking about v2 of the chart that had outsiders?

 

[meleebrawler]

It was mostly hyperbole. Ultimately everyone has to play the neutral game, I just feel Luigi has some pretty good options to get inside in comparison to others around his level.

I feel Little Mac actually has to pay attention the most during the neutral game out of any other character, because his style is all about having the momentum and keeping it throughout the entire match. Taking a hit confirm that leads to him being juggled can lead him off the stage, where his only option is Side-B.

I played against a Sonic a few times. He's the very definition of a "hit 'n run" character.

Honestly the biggest mistake that neophyte Little Mac players
make is desperately jumping and Haymaking towards the stage
when they get knocked off even a little.

On "wall" Omega stages Mac can wall jump and at least
have some variety in recovering. Just that players
need to realize that Side B isn't always his best option.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Gunner is better then [...] DhD

Sounds like a stretch to me. DHD is really good and underrated.

 

[Wii Fit Bae]

Me vs Wizzzrobe
http://youtu.be/NNcPFsaSC4w

I got to play against one of the best pm players. I played him on his stream. Add input please

 

[Luco]

I'd definitely like a smash 4 back-room to be made at some point or rather. I feel it should be more involved with the community; whilst maintaining a kind of leader-ship that allows it to create and develop projects that benefit the competitive community.

And I think it should be transparent to the public but not postable in by non-members (which means input on these discussions can still happen if someone serious outside the BR wants to PM one of its members). Or at least some threads should have that transparency.

I'll check out the vid above when it's not late cause I shouldn't be on the computer right now... but i'll check it out and see what I can gleam from it.