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Kill confirm just means "If I confirm this happens, I kill" that's all. As unnecessary as you THINK the air dodge might be, if they air dodge they do die. (It also beats out dragon punches which is very important)
What are these super specific situations where Bowser can hit you? He has a dashgrab that can outspace hitboxes because of it's absurd range. Pivot grab can do the same and is very safe/ He has a long range unreactable dash attack, and decently fast aerials to catch jumps with.
The range on the landing hitbox for dair is absurd too. Pretty sure the sour spot can shield poke. I know that you if dair onto the side platforms on BF it'll sourspot characters beneath them.
I swear, Mario is so overrated it's not even funny. I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I fail to see how he's anywhere within Top 5 with disadvantages like these.
I'm mostly talking about certain people like those on r/smashbros. Some even argue that he's Top 3 even though I (and mostly likely most of us here) have zero reason to believe that, especially with inferior results.
Getting mad at r/smashbros for having an inaccurate tier list is like getting mad at an ant for not understanding the world doesn't end at the colony.
I don't get it.
Ron? Being a popular secondary?
I had this whole long thing written out but I realized that I'm in a bad mood and being generally unfair to r/smashbros, so I'm gonna drop the overly long and verbose point I had. But I will say, that even in your example, you placed Mario in A rank, and the final tier list ended up with him being in A+ tier list - which doesn't seem too far off from your beliefs. Overrated yes, but it's not like you had him in D tier and then r/smashbros placed him in A tier (*LOUD COUGH*ROY*LOUDCOUGH*)
You're mostly right but a few things are off. Link's standing, dash and pivot grabs have 7, 6, and 13 frames less cool down (edit, I mean IASA frames) than ZSS' and all start sooner so that's considerable. Link's ground upB is frame 8 not 4.Link doesn't get guaranteed kills off of dthrow on lightweights, at least not on ZSS who's a fairly fast falling lightweight, so I highly doubt he gets them on the rest of them either. It's a 50:50. Jab 2 sets up for nothing on fast fallers, possibly not others either if you SDI the jabs down/up depending on whether going for mid-air jump or trying to hit the ground and shield is faster for that particular character.
And no, fair doesn't work either, airdodge avoids both hits.
ZSS' grab also has roughly 3 times the active frames of Link's, her dashgrab covers nearly half of an omega stage, and she has far better mobility and pressure to force the opponent to sit in shield and be vulnerable for her grabs. Their cooldowns are also very similar which is the most important part. Link's standing grab has a clear edge due to being able to shieldgrab some crucial things ZSS can't, but then again they both have a frame 4 up b OoS so it's irrelevant in most cases.
ZSS doesn't have a single rising aerial but she has good autocancels for air to air and her mobility and dash grab force people to jump around more, while her nair and zair outperform Link's disjoints in the air horizontally. Nair and uair also set up for death combos at 30-90% and can't be shieldgrabbed on landing before ZSS' jab comes out, and zair sets up for grab which sets up for the same death combos at the same percentages. Bair is a kill move that's as safe as nair and uair except jabbing isn't as useful afterwards due to requiring a turnaround. Link's autocancels on the other hand are non-existent unless you're going to be relying on bair a lot, and his falling aerials don't have nearly the same safety or reward as ZSS' do, and his jump squat is also very slow.
You can't compare the two just because they both have a tether grab and a bad rising aerial game. Even if we only consider these two factors without all the other massive differences, ZSS' grab is quite good for a tether grab due to her dashgrab and active frames, her grab reward is as overtuned as possible without being broken and her falling aerial game is the safest and most rewarding in the entire cast (with Ryu as a relatively close runner-up in my opinion). Link's grab reward is only decent to good (dependent on the opponent's weight) and his falling aerial game is meh.
No, provided Link reads the DI properly the sour Uair is guaranteed. The gif didn't buffer dash before jumping.
I believe the issue is, in that scenario too, Air dodging inward (or against Link's current momentum) would let them avoid it.
Honestly at this point I agree. Look at the SIZE of our roster. The most we could do is like, reliably Top 5 and Bottom 5 and even then it's hard for a lot of people.
That doesn't let them escape because Link can simply read their movements and react accordingly.
You're talking about the overall durations of their grabs, but Link's actual cooldowns are 50/52/52 and ZSS' are 53/56/63, or 45/47/47 vs 40/43/51 if you count the cooldown from where their grab hitboxes completely end instead of where they actually come out. Was wrong about Link's up b though, good to know.
Landing lag is an important factor but not enough alone to make something safe. Bair does very little damage because it's a multi-hit and you can only land with either of the hits, fair comes out slow so it can be punished upon startup or powershielded relatively easily, and nair/uair/dair all put Link close to the opponent despite doing good damage and are particularly punishable if spotdodged, nair much less so though. Zairs on the other hand are always good, so that one and nair are the only good falling aerials I'd personally admit Link to have. Very importantly as well, Link doesn't have any fast ground options to cover himself or frametrap the opponent after hitting a shield, in fact all his options for this are among the slowest in the game along with the likes of Ganondorf and Palutena, and his slow mobility and jump squat don't help him with that either. I think Link's ground game is still a much stronger part of him than his aerials.
Other "low tiers" with notable kill setups include Lucas, Mewtwo, Robin and Bowser Jr.
My bad in phrasing. The IASA frames are important on wiff though.
A few things. Bowser first off can only really hurt you when you are either next to him or on the ledge. Being above him is not that scary when he had no high hitting options that are not super telegraphed. It's generally more trouble than it's worth for Bowser to try to chase people in the air minus specific matchups, meaning as I stated, the two obvious situations where he can hurt you are when he's next to you, or edgetrapping.
I'd say no because I believe that, in this game, Mario and Captain Falcon are the two characters that are pretty much built from the ground up by fundamentals. If you have a good grasp of competitive Smash, these characters will serve you well. Success with these characters largely boils down to spacing and knowing how to follow up attacks because, all in all, neither character really has anything special about them. Aside from Mario's cape and FLUDD, both characters have a low learning curve and are pretty straight forward. This all being said, unless there's some new advanced technique that's applicable for both of them or they get some buffs in a future patch, I think they're as good as they're going to get.
Not in the same sense as the last three games because, kind of like you imply, there's nobody in this game that is Melee Kirby or Brawl Ganondorf levels of hilariously bad. The patches have also saved more than a dozen characters from become total lost causes. This isn't to say that this game doesn't have unviable characters but there really isn't anyone that you'd simply select if there was an enormous skill difference between you and your opponent and you just wanted to show off. At this time, I think Samus and Zelda are the worst but they're not totally unredeemable. Like
in the past, both of them are maybe one buff dump away from being back on the right track.
I know people here love to hate on r/smashbros, and thanks for realizing you had been a bit unfair. Just to clarify though, the r/smashbros tier list put Roy in B, not A.
Glass Joe? Mac's air game, Puff's ground game, and gets OHKO'd if you hit him at the right time at the end of a taunt.
Honestly, I say this as someone who REALLY wants to main Jiggs. . . it kind of feel like Jiggs is that way. She was good in Melee and decent-ish in 64, but she's god-awful in Brawl and in Smash 4. . . I'd eliminate the "god" and just put her at "awful"
Waluigi is probably the only character that could get away with this without pissing off too many people because, I mean, that kind of is his character: a perpetual loser who blames everyone else for his faults. I dunno, I've always seen Jiggs as a joke character if only because the instant death on a broken shield is the dumbest concept ever added to a Smash game.
Only in the sense that any sorted list will have something on top and something on the bottom, so whoever's at the bottom of the tier list can be considered "bottom tier". But compared to Melee or Brawl, being "bottom tier" doesn't mean quite as much, although the stigma still lingers.
Disagree.
Oh sorry, I thought I included a "that I can think of" in there. I didn't mean it to sound like there's absolutely no other avenues of meta advancement.
Perfect pivot means you aren't committing to your full initial dash animation while getting momentum facing backwards. This is one of the best ways to aggressively perfect shield in neutral or to stay mobile with shield. Yes normal turnaround JC U-smash is the usual practical option, but PP -> Shield has very unique applications.
