Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
His recovery is bad but a handful of pages ago I posted an easy way to snap ledge if you DI up and it's kinda obnoxious.
About the Pikachu vs Mario matchup, it definitely is one of Pikachu's few bad matchups. Now how bad it really is is still debatable. At worst, it is probably 60-40 in Mario's favor, in my opinion. In the second match against Teb, ESAM did really well with Pikachu. It was in the third match where he made some mistakes that cost him the win (especially in the end, where ESAM did his trademark hard read smash attacks).
The trouble with this is that it requires you to air dodge at a certain point during your recovery. If your opponent knows the distance, they can chase you off and force you to air dodge before you're within the range where you can setup for a ledge snap. Then this, of course, can be baited and punished like any other air dodge.
There are answers to answers, my friend. You can implement this at legitimately any time and mix up its timing all you want, so long as you end up near or close to the ledge, you can snap it.
She was considered bottom tier because of Brawl even though she had some good buffs and favored the mechanical changes a bit... Yeah, she had nerfs too but so did literally every other character, namely the top tiers.
Of course people are going to say being floaty isn't a good thing... In Melee, yes it was with Fox's Usmash of doom. But Brawl onwards balanced out the upwards resistance of fast fallers by increasing upwards knockback depending on how fast you fell. Samus in Smash 4 has the 16th best survival upwards IIRC.
Roy's Fsmash isn't really better Pit and Cloud's. Cloud's is still plenty powerful and a little slower, while Pit's is tied for fastest Fsmash and he's a rage machine, and of course both moves will typically beat spotdodges. Roy's is incredibly risky, and gets punished way too hard for attempting it due to his other attributes.
Vipes already cleared up some of the confusion, but to elaborate...
Well, yes, that's the dynamic of the game. All I'm saying is that this strategy is much less reliable than most good recoveries in this game. I'm not trying to imply that it has easy workaround but rather that, compared to someone like Sonic or Pikachu, Cloud's recovery is probably going to bite him in the behind more often. Being forced to air dodge is inherently less reliable because it means that your opponent knows how you are going to recover most of the time.
No, Little Mac can not. I've tried, trust me. If he can I'm mistaken but even the data dumps from early days tell me he can't, and they've never changed his Up+B in patching regarding ledgesnap so I consider it final.
up B, can be used as a combo breaker and a kill move, even if is worse for recovery.
If he's below the ledge and uses side special or down special he dies regardless.
Cross Slash halts your horizontal velocity, so without a second jump it's a very poor air stall for recovery purposes. The animation takes forever to complete, so you likely want to interrupt it with a quick limit charge or climhazzard in order to grab the ledge.
I believe that both blade beam and cross slash halt horizontal momentum, and the best option that I know of is to air dodge afterwards (same thing if Cloud gets air released from a grab at the edge). I dunno why, but air dodge is globally good at getting some of your momentum back sometimes.
Noted and probably true. On my way to a smash fest so I'll mess around with it. Blade beam gives a slight horizontal boost (can be controlled) with its vertical hop, but I never feel tempted to use it when I have max horizontal acceleration and have been trying to get myself to use it more. Subconsciously, I've probably been avoiding using it in situations where it would hurt my recovery.
Nair is decent. About as fast as Marth's Fair FAF wise, 1f over it (edited for clarity).
Good post, this is a very overlooked technique for for more characters than you might think.
I actually believe I saw M2K utilize it once against Dabuz during the Genesis pools. Seems really useful actually.
Wait what???
He seems more like a Cloud player to me. It's hard to imagine him playing Sheik or ZSS; then again, it was hard to imagine him maining Brawl MK after being the Snake player for so long.
Whoa, stop right there. Izaw is over hyped by youtube scrubs but doesn't actually have any results. Scizor has large tourney results in CA. You cannot base Link on Izaw's performance; he's where Radical Larrys come from. The Links in chat were right on.
^This. But I thought Scizor got like 97th or something?
They won doubles (with another team in top 4), won the crew battle, and had their best player finish 3rd. The only disappointing thing about their overall performance was how low Komo/Aba/9B finished in singles. So overall I'd argue no, but concede yes if you focus disproportionately on the 1v1 format.I've been hearing a lot of people saying Japan was overhyped, do you guys agree?
Not really; ZeRo said his set with Ranai was one of the hardest sets he'd ever played, Komorikiri (among others) played a month old character in half his sets, and Japan took crews and doubles.I've been hearing a lot of people saying Japan was overhyped, do you guys agree?
That's what I was thinking. Also, do you think the humongous crowd and big atmosphere effect their play? I have never seen Japan major as big as gen. Not to mention, it's the first time for most of them playing people from the USA.
What do you expect out of a character that's built to keep opposing characters at midrange at all times but doesn't have the mid-range/zoning game to do that consistently while also having frame advantage against very few characters? (Boomerang that takes half a second to come out and is easily perfect shielded, bombs that come out slow and can be used against him, telegraphed arrows that can't be stored and can only be shot in one direction at a time. All of these are high commitment as well.)
Red flag when Mario is starting to be considered unviable in the rapidly shifting metagame.
reading comments right now, apparently he'll keep him as a secondary for specific mus such as pika.
makes sense
Link, he is just really hard to fix qith the bad philosophy Sakurai gave him. His Up B will always be easy to gimp, his tether easily spiked, his mobility will always be bad, always bad close combat options, and he will also be combo food forever as well. And he got neutered since release, he lost all his tech from 3DS and the jab stuff. Mario has gotten the shaft recently. His best player dropping him and getting the overrated card like Ness. Rat gets judged for ESAM alone
There are things that can be done to make it harder to be gimped by certain opponents with Link. He's not that easily gimped.
Okay, great.
Mario was considered a top 5 character at the very beginning of Melee too. It's the natural course of an all-around character. Although I think he won't drop as low as Melee Mario.
