Character and Player Success at Nationals

[allshort17]

Reading through the threads on Smashboards, I recently came across an argument involving the success of characters at national tournaments. This idea sparked my interest, so I took it upon myself to search for the results of players and characters at nationals.

This does not take into account how much one player used a character, but only if they used them. So, if the character is by their name in the results thread then it is counted. One tournament, however, did not put character usage and I am unaware on who some of those players are. If anyone knows the official character usage for FAST1 then please let me know.

This is not the final version. This is active and will change with upcoming nationals. If there are any I missed, please tell me. Also, I one day hope to include international nationals (say that five times fast) so tell me any results that could apply.

[COLLAPSE="Tournaments used"]
Apex 2012, 2010, and 2008
WHOBO 1,2, and 3
MLG Dallas, DC, Orlando, Columbus, and Raleigh
FAST1
Genesis 1 and 2
SNES
Pound 4 and 5
Clash of the Titans 4
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="First place players"]
Mew 2 King-7
Ally-5
ADHD-3
Otori- 1
Gnes- 1
DEHF- 1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Second place players"]
Ally-5
Mew 2 King-4
Nietono-1
UltimateRazor-1
Tyrant-1
Rich Brown-1
Dojo-1
Reflex-1
Lee Martin-1
Brood-1
Anti-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Third place players"]
Mew 2 King-3
Tyrant-2
Dojo-2
Nario-1
ESAM-1
DSF-1
Cort-1
Lain-1
Ally-1
Nick Riddle-1
Felix-1
Spammer-1
Seibrik-1
ADHD-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fourth place players"]
ESAM-4
Lee Martin-3
Ally-2
ADHD-1
Afro Thundah-1
Dojo-1
Anti-1
Lain-1
Ksizzle-1
Seibrik-1
Gnes-1
Atomsk-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fifth/Sixth place players"]
Atomsk-3
Tyrant-3
ADHD-3
Ally-2
Gnes-2
UltimateRazor-2
Kakera-1
Vinnie-1
Espy-1
X-1
Fatal-1
MikeHaze-1
Co18-1
HRNut-1
Inui-1
DEHF-1
Ksizzle-1
Anther-1
DSF-1
Shawdow_111-1
Judge-1
Dojo-1
Nick Riddle-1
Lain-1
NinjaLink-1
Lee Martin-1
Zex-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Seventh/Eighth place players"]
Havok-3
ADHD-2
Lee Martin-2
Atomsk-2
DEHF-2
Tearbear-2
UltimateRazor-1
Shugo-1
Will-1
Ally-1
Domo-1
Melee1-1
Needles of Juntahh-1
Fearless-1
Fiction-1
SK92-1
Anther-1
PikaPika-1
Reflex-1
Biglou-1
Logic-1
ESAM-1
Rain-1
ChuDat-1
Judge-1
Gnes-1
Fatal-1
Rich Brown-1
Fliphop=1
[/COLLAPSE]

-M2K has the most tournament wins with 7. He also holds the record for most third place finishes. There have only been two nationals he has been at where he came less than 3rd at.
-Ally has the record for most appearances in the top 8 with 15. Ironically, Ally is in second in first place finishes (with 5), but tied for first in second place finishes (with 5 again). He is also the only player to place in every position in the top 8.
-Otori and Ally are the only international players to take first at a national. Ally is the first to do so while Otori is the first from a different continent.
-Otori, Ally, Nietono, Kakeka, Brood, and Rain are the only international players to take a top 8 spot.
-Out of the 18 nationals that have happened, only 6 players have ever won.
-57 different players have been in the top 8.

[COLLAPSE="First place characters"]
-9
-5
-4
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Second place characters"]
-8
-6
-3
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Third place characters"]
-12
-2
-2
-2
- 1
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fourth place characters"]
-9
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fifth/Sixth place characters"]
-12
-6
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
-2
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Seven/Eighth place characters"]
-11
-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-2
-2
-2
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

-Surprise, surprise! But, Meta Knight is the top character chosen for all placements. The lowest placement he has been in is second place, only making it there 8 times.
-Meta Knight and Snake are the only characters to appear in all placements.
-The are less characters that have made second than first.
-The lone Toon Link was played by Lee Martin.
-Lee Martin holds all the placements for Lucario and Toon Link, ChuDat has the only Kirby, Will has the Donkey Kong, Nick Riddle owns all the Zero Suit Samus placements, Reflex has the Pokemon Trainer one, and Vinnie has the only Mr. Game and Watch placement.
-The highest placing mid-tier character is Pokemon Trainer (Maybe. Again I cannot officially count FAST1). Without FAST1, it is Sonic and Luigi.
-All characters in high tier or above have been in the top 3.
-No low tier character has been in top 8.
-Along with the low tier characters, other characters that have never seen the light of top 8 are Wolf, Fox, Peach, Pit, R.O.B, Ike, Sheik, Yoshi, and Ness.
-Olimar, Pikachu, and Wario are the only top tier characters never to win a national. Even then, Pikachu and Wario (potentially) have never seen second.


Please send in result for future, missed, and international nationals. Also, if someone can tell me the results of FAST1 that would be great.

 

[Lukingordex]

Cool,but the characters places are not a surprise...

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

The difference between this and our tierlist is pretty interesting. It tells you how actually viable the different tier characters are. How no low tier has made top eight tells me they aren't very viable at the top level of play.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

The difference between this and our tierlist is pretty interesting. It tells you how actually viable the different tier characters are. How no low tier has made top eight tells me they aren't very viable at the top level of play.

Doesn't the tierlist kinda also tell you that? Ya know, seeing as all of them are in the Low Tier and all. The difference is that this list also says that Wolf, Fox, Peach and Pit are also not a threat, which isn't any more true than saying Kirby, PT, and DK are bigger threats simply because they appeared in the top8 once.

That's why he also lists players. Cuz it's not so much that Kirby, PT and DK are threats, but more that Chudat, Reflex and Will are threats.

 

[Raziek]

Where the heck did Marth get a first? That one time Ally used him for a CP?

 

[allshort17]

Where the heck did Marth get a first? That one time Ally used him for a CP?

Yeah. He did at WHOBO 3.

 

[Cassio]

This sounded like a good idea until using one character one time at a national meant you placed with them.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This sounded like a good idea until using one character one time at a national meant you placed with them.

I agree with this but the information is very interesting regardless. I may do something like that with japanese results and see if they are worth publishing.

 

[Flayl]

Didn't san get a top 8? Pretty sure he did.

edit: Nope he got a top 12. Sorry.

 

[Orion*]

This sounded like a good idea until using one character one time at a national meant you placed with them.

not you....

but i like how when it's metaknight nobody seems to complain

 

[fkacyan]

It's really funny because in Melee it would be like, all Fox and Falco with like two people placing highly with Jiggs / One with peach / random ylink CP for jiggs, 3S would be YUN/CHUN all day, etc

Brawl is so well-balanced compared to a lot of other fighters because most of the game is entirely reads. Shame the game is so boring to watch.

 

[allshort17]

Should I count Evo2K8 as a national? I know it had items, but it was early in the game's life and still had a good turnout I believe. I want to count it.

 

[Flayl]

A character's power depends heavily on items, I would put it in a separate list

 

[Orion*]

items are almost a completely different game, i would not count it

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's really funny because in Melee it would be like, all Fox and Falco with like two people placing highly with Jiggs / One with peach / random ylink CP for jiggs, 3S would be YUN/CHUN all day, etc

Brawl is so well-balanced compared to a lot of other fighters because most of the game is entirely reads. Shame the game is so boring to watch.

Ignoring the Sheiks, Marths, Doc, and the fact that Armada being the "one peach" wins him a large portion of those Nationals, then sure, it's all Fox and Falco.

I must have missed the 61 Metaknights compared to 23 Snakes in top 8.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I only used Wario at FAST1. At SNES, I only used PT.

 

[Orion*]

Ignoring the Sheiks, Marths, Doc, and the fact that Armada being the "one peach" wins him a large portion of those Nationals, then sure, it's all Fox and Falco.

I must have missed the 61 Metaknights compared to 23 Snakes in top 8.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771

 

[allshort17]

For FAST1, I'm just going to assume these are the characters.

M2K- MK
Reflex- Wario
Cort- Snake
AfroThundah-Snake
HRNut- Snake
Inui- MK
Fearless- Olimar
Needles of Juntaah- G&W

Speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

[Orion*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ovHARCOHaQ

m2k used ddd also
im pretty confident inui was using marth/snake a lot at that stage I'll ask him.

edit: did jason even use mk at this event? lol

 

[C.J.]

I actually don't think so. I've only ever seen his DDD in vids.

And I believe you're right on Lucas using Snake. Idk about Marth though.

 

[Orion*]

i know in 08 he used both a lot, i wouldnt be surprised if marth was dropped at this point though. he kept using snake way into 2010

 

[Sinister Slush]

The Toon Link placing interests me, was that at one of the MLGs?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

For FAST1, I'm just going to assume these are the characters.

M2K- MK
Reflex- Wario
Cort- Snake
AfroThundah-Snake
HRNut- Snake
Inui- MK
Fearless- Olimar
Needles of Juntaah- G&W

Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Mew2King also used King Dedede. Otherwise, that looks correct.

 

[Kink-Link5]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771

Those are all at the state level, not nationals, and still show less centralizing results than in Brawl.

Very little about the thread linked can be accurately compared to what is shown in this one, and what can be compared shows the vary opposite of

It's really funny because in Melee it would be like, all Fox and Falco with like two people placing highly with Jiggs / One with peach / random ylink CP for jiggs, 3S would be YUN/CHUN all day, etc

Brawl is so well-balanced compared to a lot of other fighters because most of the game is entirely reads. Shame the game is so boring to watch.

Since Sheik placed in the top 8 nearly as much as Faco, who placed

[Math]

0.47 as many times as Fox, compared to Barlw's second highest, Snake, placing

[Marth]

0.38 as many times as Metaknight,


It is hardly accurate to say it is all Fox and Falco-- much less so, anyway, than it is to say Brawl is all Metaknight. I don't see how one game dominated by one character is more balanced than another that is less dominated by a character, but maybe I'm not looking at this dataset properly.

 

[fabulouspants]

did him saying that brawl was well balanced hurt your feelings? =(

 

[allshort17]

SKTAR and WHOBO. Nationals or no? Also, any I missing any, whether past or upcoming?

I will also start the international version too. The this will start after Sunrise and will include Sunrise, Bushido Brawl I and II, and Impulse. Please tell me other international tournaments through history and the results if possible. Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan, Mexico, Chile, I need them all.