timothyung
Smash Ace
Yellow?
And Cape said in the IRC that he might start working on Doc this weekend
And Cape said in the IRC that he might start working on Doc this weekend
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Challenger Approaching: His Prescription? KOs
- Thread starter The Cape
- Start date
Kei_Takaro
Smash Lord
How Oh-So timely that Project SA has arrived =D I think this'll make things easier
I played a little of Doc v3 and so far I likey. he still seems a little light, but then again so does regular Mario, so it's probably not a big deal. I like how his bair hits downward, which would make it easier to gimp your opponent. The fsmash is nice, I think the short range is a good trade for it's absolute power.
The biggest project here is going to be the fireball, FLUDD, and dair. I would hope that these could be changed up, of course the fireball being a pill, but I wouldn't know what to do with FLUDD and dair. If we keep FLUDD, I like the idea of it being a green, toxic sort of liquid, maybe even with slight damage. If it gets replaced, I would want the Doc tornado back, but then something would have to be done about dair.
If I had any kind of time I would try to learn how to change some of these things and try to contribute more than ideas to this, but unfortunately I don't, so this is all I can do. I don't know what all is possible through project SA, but let's hope we can make this happen and it be tournament-ready eventually.
The biggest project here is going to be the fireball, FLUDD, and dair. I would hope that these could be changed up, of course the fireball being a pill, but I wouldn't know what to do with FLUDD and dair. If we keep FLUDD, I like the idea of it being a green, toxic sort of liquid, maybe even with slight damage. If it gets replaced, I would want the Doc tornado back, but then something would have to be done about dair.
If I had any kind of time I would try to learn how to change some of these things and try to contribute more than ideas to this, but unfortunately I don't, so this is all I can do. I don't know what all is possible through project SA, but let's hope we can make this happen and it be tournament-ready eventually.
The problem with the FLUDD is that I can replace it with the dair animation, hitboxes, etc, but as far as I can tell, (and I asked PW, and he said the same) it's not in the current tech to make it able to rise by pressing B like the tornado should. I copied pretty much all of Luigi's code trying to get it to work except for the animation name and it still wouldn't rise. So we'll have to wait on that.
Then there is the question of what to do with Dair, once it is Tornado. We'll (presumably) have to find an acceptable animation already in Mario's file to use as a new dair. Unless we can moveswap with, say, Luigi's dair animation, and have it have multihit hitboxes instead of one strong hit like Luigi. I kind of hope this becomes possible, since their frames are so similar. Anyway, we'll see how it pans out.
Lemon-ish yellow Doc sounds delicious.
Camelot, did you ever post a download to that default texture you made so many pages ago? It's much better than the one on the first page, and would be easier to use as a base for other color swaps. I would be happy to try my hand at a yellow costume if you would post your default texture.
A possibility would be to change Marios Nair in his Fair, Fair to Dair and Marios down taunt to NAir (like Kirbys). Also i would use some of Marios victory poses to make Dr. Mario more unlike, there is a possible for a new USmash und FSmash.
The Cape
Smash Master
I have some ideas for Doc over the past week and I wanted to get some opinions from those that play Doc before I start implementing them. This is basically an overhaul of the character that makes him more different than Mario and his own playstyle. I will least each move and what it should do now, please post your opinions.
Jabs:
The slower first and second jab that he currently has in the build and the third is now the U tilt animation that sends people away, should kill from the center of FD around 250%
Utilt:
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
F throw:
B throw spinning animation with a bit of forward momentum and multi hits (think Mario's cape spin from SMW)
D tilt:
Same as current doc build (sends behind)
U smash:
More base, less growth
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
nair:
Reversed the two hitboxes
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
Uair:
25 angle, more base and growth
Fair:
80,90,100 angles
Dair:
Same as current doc build
Dash attack:
Still in the works, might try to do something with the tripping animation for damage
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
dB:
No charge or momentum, darkness type, does 1 damage per hit
upB:
Two hits, one strong when the move starts, and a weaker one that stays out (dont link). First hit about as strong as Ganon uppercut.
Thoughts?
Jabs:
The slower first and second jab that he currently has in the build and the third is now the U tilt animation that sends people away, should kill from the center of FD around 250%
Utilt:
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
F throw:
B throw spinning animation with a bit of forward momentum and multi hits (think Mario's cape spin from SMW)
D tilt:
Same as current doc build (sends behind)
U smash:
More base, less growth
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
nair:
Reversed the two hitboxes
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
Uair:
25 angle, more base and growth
Fair:
80,90,100 angles
Dair:
Same as current doc build
Dash attack:
Still in the works, might try to do something with the tripping animation for damage
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
dB:
No charge or momentum, darkness type, does 1 damage per hit
upB:
Two hits, one strong when the move starts, and a weaker one that stays out (dont link). First hit about as strong as Ganon uppercut.
Thoughts?
timothyung
Smash Ace
Everything seems to be OK except for Utilt. lolwat.
About the Fsmash, are you saying only Doc's body would have hitboxes? I liked it best with the little electric explosion in front of him with a hitbox, but weaker. I know we're not trying to remake Melee Doc exactly, but he's still a clone of Mario, and some of those ideas seem a little...out there. I'll have to see how it turns out, though.
timothyung
Smash Ace
Imo we should keep the more unique things of Doc and change others.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Woah, how are you going to implement Pills?
Also HATLESS CODE!
Also HATLESS CODE!
The Cape
Smash Master
I was trying to keep some of Doc's uniqueness, and I planned on having the F smash bubble as well.
Basically hit body is a hitbox and has decent power and KB, but the one on his hand only hits forward (non reversible) and has more power and KB. It will be small, but have more priority.
I know that some of these ideas are completely different from the Doc we know, but the thing is, the Doc we know is so much like Mario that he shouldnt even be another character. I wanted to try some unusual ideas to make him a bit more of his own char with his own playstyle.
Might try this Doc texture:
Basically hit body is a hitbox and has decent power and KB, but the one on his hand only hits forward (non reversible) and has more power and KB. It will be small, but have more priority.
I know that some of these ideas are completely different from the Doc we know, but the thing is, the Doc we know is so much like Mario that he shouldnt even be another character. I wanted to try some unusual ideas to make him a bit more of his own char with his own playstyle.
Might try this Doc texture:
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
!!!I was trying to keep some of Doc's uniqueness, and I planned on having the F smash bubble as well.
Basically hit body is a hitbox and has decent power and KB, but the one on his hand only hits forward (non reversible) and has more power and KB. It will be small, but have more priority.
I know that some of these ideas are completely different from the Doc we know, but the thing is, the Doc we know is so much like Mario that he shouldnt even be another character. I wanted to try some unusual ideas to make him a bit more of his own char with his own playstyle.
Might try this Doc texture:
Could I please a link to that texture!?!
I've been searching EVERYWHERE, and all hatless codes make all Mario's hatless. Dude, what code are you using?
timothyung
Smash Ace
That texture is just the one in the first post
I like this better though
I like this better though
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
First post texture has hat though... But yeah I agree I like the Mario texture. Without a hat, it could be even better!That texture is just the one in the first post
I like this better though
I much prefer Camelot's texture, the one timothyung posted. It doesn't have those red and blue buttons on the overalls, and the jacket looks more like a jacket whereas the one in the texture Cape posted just looks like overalls with a triangle cut in the bottom. If we could combine a working hatless code (as in one that doesn't make other textures glitch up) with Camelot's texture, I think that would be the closest to Doc we could get in terms of costumes.
Please, Camelot, post a link!
Please, Camelot, post a link!
Utilt:
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
This is an interesting idea, if it looks alright I think it could be a pretty good move.
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
I assume you just mean Doc's hand, similar to melee. This sound good. Have you looked at the Fsmash I put together in v3? I think it recreates melee's Fsmash quite well. The KBG might be a bit high, I'm not sure. Obviously it should have a bit more strength due to its decreased range
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
That would be alright, but the move would need a speed increase, perhaps same speed until after the first hitbox comes out, then the move is significantly sped up.
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
Interesting idea, but bair is pretty universally used by the cast as an off stage move to help keep the enemy off (though you could presumably use the weak hitbox for that?). This would need some tweaking/playtesting to test its viability as a useful move.
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
Great, obviously. Is there any graphic in the work for that? Will it just be a modified fireball with the capsule graphic? Just curious what the ideas are.
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
Like it.
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
This is an interesting idea, if it looks alright I think it could be a pretty good move.
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
I assume you just mean Doc's hand, similar to melee. This sound good. Have you looked at the Fsmash I put together in v3? I think it recreates melee's Fsmash quite well. The KBG might be a bit high, I'm not sure. Obviously it should have a bit more strength due to its decreased range
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
That would be alright, but the move would need a speed increase, perhaps same speed until after the first hitbox comes out, then the move is significantly sped up.
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
Interesting idea, but bair is pretty universally used by the cast as an off stage move to help keep the enemy off (though you could presumably use the weak hitbox for that?). This would need some tweaking/playtesting to test its viability as a useful move.
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
Great, obviously. Is there any graphic in the work for that? Will it just be a modified fireball with the capsule graphic? Just curious what the ideas are.
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
Like it.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
I keep hearing that but i need a more definitive date.
The Cape
Smash Master
Is the moveset even worth pursuing as I posted it? Might be a good thing to start testing and see whats up with it.
Do you all concur?
Do you all concur?
camelot
Smash Ace
I put up the Doc texture, grab it if you want: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?itmoofz1yjx
All I've changed since I posted those pictures were the gloves (made them a little brighter), and the shirt (made it a little darker so it stood out more). The lighting is really weird in Brawl. Those pictures were in a really dim place, and in normal areas the shirt and coat were the same color.
All I've changed since I posted those pictures were the gloves (made them a little brighter), and the shirt (made it a little darker so it stood out more). The lighting is really weird in Brawl. Those pictures were in a really dim place, and in normal areas the shirt and coat were the same color.
Red
Blue
Green
Black
Yellow
The pants seem a little darker in the game, but it works pretty well. There's only one minor problem that's really only visible on the black costume - since the jacket effect is achieved by texturing part of Mario's overalls the same as his shirt, they don't line up perfectly. Meaning there's a little black bar running across Mario's shirt where the top of his overalls used to be. It's not that bad, though, and I could probably fix it if I only knew what texture went where.
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
is there a way to remove his hat and make the doctor headband thingy?
Half-yes. We can remove the hat with codes, but it has a tendency to glitch a lot of other textures. The only way to make the headband would be to sort of paint it on over Mario's hair, which would look really warped and out of proportion. We can't make items and accessories out of scratch, so...
camelot
Smash Ace
Absolutely. Frankly, I think it will be a good while until we have a stable clone character engine up and running, especially with things like model hacking. We have a good amount of time to playtest and tweak the moveset until something that is both balanced and unique is agreed upon. There's no need to rush to a gold version.
Jabs:
The slower first and second jab that he currently has in the build and the third is now the U tilt animation that sends people away, should kill from the center of FD around 250%
This sounds good, I liked in melee that the first two jabs combod into a dsmash, but I also like that the third jab is a "get away from me" move. Sounds like here you may be able to do either, but the second jab might have to pull them in a little for the "utilt" jab to hit.
Utilt:
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
Decent enough to combo into a killing fair at certain percents and I couldn't be happier. It's a new move, though, which is good.
F throw:
B throw spinning animation with a bit of forward momentum and multi hits (think Mario's cape spin from SMW)
I like the multi hits idea
D tilt:
Same as current doc build (sends behind)
This works at higher percents with a bair combo, but useless at lower percents. Maybe it could knock them further at lower percents without much growth?
U smash:
More base, less growth
Sounds good
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
The fsmash in v3 is really good, imo, maybe a tad strong, but that makes up for lack of range.
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
This would take me some getting used to, as I'm used to using dsmash when enemies are in front of me. It may not be a bad idea, if sped up after the first hitbox behind doc.
nair:
Reversed the two hitboxes
Part of doc's sexyness of the sex kick was the fact it was reversed from Mario's. If switched back around, though, doc would probably play a little better since it's a quick kick.
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
I actually like v3 of the bair with it knocking back at a downward angle, but I also like the idea of an elec hit. Not so much the pulling in part, because it would be harder to edgeguard that way.
Uair:
25 angle, more base and growth
This is good, not a lot more growth, though. I like that it can combo into another uair at nearly any percent.
Fair:
80,90,100 angles
Not sure what the angles do exactly, but I would suggest a little more knockback than v3. For the fact the move is pretty slow, it needs to punish anyone who gets hit by it.
Dair:
Same as current doc build
Wish we could change this move altogether. Could it have a little suction power, if nothing else?
Dash attack:
Still in the works, might try to do something with the tripping animation for damage
In the first doc build I played it tripped what seemed like nearly 100% of the time. Of course, that's a little much, but it would be interesting to have a very high tripping rate. It would make it pretty easy to chase an opponent that like to roll to get up.
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
yay pills
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
I like the reverse momentum, but it would screw up recovery...I can see myself caping backwards to get closer to the stage and upB the wrong way (although you could play some mindgames from the edge with it). Depending on the knockback if doc hits you, it could potentially be a combo move if it hits them straight up or in front of you.
dB:
No charge or momentum, darkness type, does 1 damage per hit
Sure. Anything to make this move better...or worth anything.
upB:
Two hits, one strong when the move starts, and a weaker one that stays out (dont link). First hit about as strong as Ganon uppercut.
I use upB most for recovery only, this may be good against people trying to edgeguard, so I like it.
Edit: Any time you want me to test a change, send me the .pac file and I'll play around with it and tell you what I think. I wish I knew/had time to learn how to make the changes myself, but all I can do is test. I'm very excited to have Doc abord the Brawl crew.
The slower first and second jab that he currently has in the build and the third is now the U tilt animation that sends people away, should kill from the center of FD around 250%
This sounds good, I liked in melee that the first two jabs combod into a dsmash, but I also like that the third jab is a "get away from me" move. Sounds like here you may be able to do either, but the second jab might have to pull them in a little for the "utilt" jab to hit.
Utilt:
The victory screen animation where Doc jumps up and spins, hits away from him with decent KB
Decent enough to combo into a killing fair at certain percents and I couldn't be happier. It's a new move, though, which is good.
F throw:
B throw spinning animation with a bit of forward momentum and multi hits (think Mario's cape spin from SMW)
I like the multi hits idea
D tilt:
Same as current doc build (sends behind)
This works at higher percents with a bair combo, but useless at lower percents. Maybe it could knock them further at lower percents without much growth?
U smash:
More base, less growth
Sounds good
F smash:
No fireball, elec type, just Doc's body
The fsmash in v3 is really good, imo, maybe a tad strong, but that makes up for lack of range.
D smash:
Front and back hit are switched, back hit gets more KBG
This would take me some getting used to, as I'm used to using dsmash when enemies are in front of me. It may not be a bad idea, if sped up after the first hitbox behind doc.
nair:
Reversed the two hitboxes
Part of doc's sexyness of the sex kick was the fact it was reversed from Mario's. If switched back around, though, doc would probably play a little better since it's a quick kick.
bair:
Doc body has a weak hitbox and beyond his feet has a small electric bubble that pulls towards him (think Zelda Melee kick, but pulling in). Elec hit is only on the "strong bair" portion
I actually like v3 of the bair with it knocking back at a downward angle, but I also like the idea of an elec hit. Not so much the pulling in part, because it would be harder to edgeguard that way.
Uair:
25 angle, more base and growth
This is good, not a lot more growth, though. I like that it can combo into another uair at nearly any percent.
Fair:
80,90,100 angles
Not sure what the angles do exactly, but I would suggest a little more knockback than v3. For the fact the move is pretty slow, it needs to punish anyone who gets hit by it.
Dair:
Same as current doc build
Wish we could change this move altogether. Could it have a little suction power, if nothing else?
Dash attack:
Still in the works, might try to do something with the tripping animation for damage
In the first doc build I played it tripped what seemed like nearly 100% of the time. Of course, that's a little much, but it would be interesting to have a very high tripping rate. It would make it pretty easy to chase an opponent that like to roll to get up.
B moves:
Pills, high trajectory, 8 damage, fixed KB, 90 degrees
yay pills
fB:
Reverse momentum (Doc flies backwards). Wind box in front of the cape, and a hitbox on Doc's back that does 5 damage if he flies into you
I like the reverse momentum, but it would screw up recovery...I can see myself caping backwards to get closer to the stage and upB the wrong way (although you could play some mindgames from the edge with it). Depending on the knockback if doc hits you, it could potentially be a combo move if it hits them straight up or in front of you.
dB:
No charge or momentum, darkness type, does 1 damage per hit
Sure. Anything to make this move better...or worth anything.
upB:
Two hits, one strong when the move starts, and a weaker one that stays out (dont link). First hit about as strong as Ganon uppercut.
I use upB most for recovery only, this may be good against people trying to edgeguard, so I like it.
Edit: Any time you want me to test a change, send me the .pac file and I'll play around with it and tell you what I think. I wish I knew/had time to learn how to make the changes myself, but all I can do is test. I'm very excited to have Doc abord the Brawl crew.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
I won't let this die!
The Doc is almost complete, I just wish we could effectively remove his hat.
The Doc is almost complete, I just wish we could effectively remove his hat.
camelot
Smash Ace
Weren't you planning on making his KO power superior to Mario's, but nerfing his gimping power? (Which is pretty much the reverse of what it is now, or at least what it was the last time I played)
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Well, Doc was always a more gimp heavy character than Mario in the first place, so it makes sense that it's the way it is.
The Cape
Smash Master
Well we are reworking him completely right now. More KO power, less combos and gimps.
In Melee Doc was better than Mario at everything so there was no reason to play Mario. We dont want that here.
In Melee Doc was better than Mario at everything so there was no reason to play Mario. We dont want that here.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Awesome.
Nice to see some doc work. Can't wait until it's finished.
Nice to see some doc work. Can't wait until it's finished.
pokelover980
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 905
I saw you wanted to remove Mario's fireball from his F-Smash.
Sub-Action 58, External Graphic File #0, graphic 19. Remove that. I know because that's the graphic I used to add extra fireballs to his F-Smash.
Sub-Action 58, External Graphic File #0, graphic 19. Remove that. I know because that's the graphic I used to add extra fireballs to his F-Smash.
You'll have to PM Cape about that. He's the one doing all the testing on Doc, and he's still not the finished product we want him to be. There's a lot of work to be done, particularly on his ftilt and throws.
BeepBopRobot
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
- Messages
- 57
Nvm delete this.
Oni K4ge
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 1,119
... no ones using my Doctor Mario Model... 
I fixed it y'know. It's perfect now... if I do say so myself ^_^ here;
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242011
thought I thought I caught a glimpse of it in one of these posts. Anyway USE THAT^^
I fixed it y'know. It's perfect now... if I do say so myself ^_^ here;
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242011
thought I thought I caught a glimpse of it in one of these posts. Anyway USE THAT^^