Chain grab to spike

[rodrigo_ssbb]

I believe that most of you are familiar with the CG and know how to use it. I have been looking for something in this forum about the CG followed by the spike, but didn't find much.

It is said that it (CG+Spike) KOs some chars from 0% (Wolf, which I main, for example), but the video below made me wonder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62g82Ch2mgY

Note that Wolf recovers after a spike (that seems to be well applied) , but was it Wolf's ability that made the recover possible or Falco's inaccuracy?

And what other chars can be CG+Spiked to KO?

 

[ftl]

The falco just did it wrong, I think. You have to properly edgehog afterwards to finish the wolf off, and the Falco didn't do that, he tried to go for a second dair instead of grabbing the edge at the right time. I think if he'd just grabbed the edge instead of trying for a second dair, wolf would've died.

I think Ness/Lucas are spikable for a ko, assuming proper edgehogging. Wolf and Falco definitely; Fox not sure about, he might have a long enough firefox to get back. Ganon dies.

DDD may or may not be 0-death-able, you can CG->spike him but he can up-b, and you need to spike him out of the up-b for the kill, but he can cancel that at different times (or not cancel it to use the SA). Ganon can be 0-deathed, pretty sure.

There's probably others. Honestly, if someone can be CGed, they can be CG->spiked, and from there you just have to see how good their recovery options are, can they get around an edgehog and do they have enough versatility to avoid a second spike. (MK, for example, can be cg->spiked, but with his jumps and his up-b, there's nothing falco can do to him after that - spiking him into the ground for a tech-chase is more effective than spiking him off the side...)

 

[8AngeL8]

Other than the floaty characters like Peach, Jiggs, DDD, MK, etc, most characters who get caught in a full chain-grab can be caught in a spike. Some will be instantly killed, some will be killed if the Falco edge-hogs properly. There aren't many that can be killed every single time. Wolf and Snake can for sure, let me actually hop on my Wii and go through the list to see who I can do it to. I'll edit later with the results.

 

[wangston]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175482

Here you are my good man. It's a how to on chain grab to spike. With a video. though the vid is waaaaay to long 7 min hhahahaha. I'm to lazy to make a new one.

You can tag a dair on almost everyone that is below 45%.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm pretty sure captain falcon can be 0 - deathed this way
*looks around*
*cries*

 

[ftl]

Wolf and Snake can for sure, let me actually hop on my Wii and go through the list to see who I can do it to.

Are you sure you can do it to Snake?

I'm pretty sure Snake can use his cypher after the spike. Falco can stand at the edge and try to grab him out of it, or try to do a second dair on him, but I think Snake can recover far enough away from the edge to get around both of those, then c4 himself to get his cypher back and then recover high. It's certainly extra damage - by the time that's done, Snake should be somewhere around 80% or so, and in a prime position to be juggled - but I didn't think it was 0-death...

 

[J4pu]

I'm pretty sure captain falcon can be 0 - deathed this way
*looks around*
*cries*

I'm pretty sure CF can meteor cancel with a jump soon enough that his UpB will put him back on the stage and he won't need the edge. wolf falco and fox have terrible aerial control after the initial direction of their UpB starts CF has quite good aerial control if i remember.

I'm not positive though.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm pretty sure CF can meteor cancel with a jump soon enough that his UpB will put him back on the stage and he won't need the edge. wolf falco and fox have terrible aerial control after the initial direction of their UpB starts CF has quite good aerial control if i remember.

I'm not positive though.

I hope you're right, but I think you're not..
can someone test this

 

[wangston]

If DK can survive the spike at %50 I think CF can. You first have to jump cancel then UP B. Though if the falco grabs the ledge right before you do you might be toast. I'm not sure if CF makes it above the stage.

 

[ftl]

DK can survive because he can't be edgehogged (at least, not easily) because of the length his hitbox stays out. I've got no doubt that CF can make it at least to edge level - all characters can do that, I think? Whether he can make it high enough to avoid the edgehog is the question.

It makes me very sad for the Falco boards that we don't even have this question answered I wish I could contribute real data, but all I've got are CPUs, and I don't trust data I'd get from them, they're not very good at getting out of the chaingrab when they should be able to and then recovering properly... if anyone can suggest a good way for me to test it out without a human opponent I'd be more than happy to make a list, but I don't think there is a good way.

 

[8AngeL8]

Are you sure you can do it to Snake?

I'm pretty sure Snake can use his cypher after the spike. Falco can stand at the edge and try to grab him out of it, or try to do a second dair on him, but I think Snake can recover far enough away from the edge to get around both of those, then c4 himself to get his cypher back and then recover high. It's certainly extra damage - by the time that's done, Snake should be somewhere around 80% or so, and in a prime position to be juggled - but I didn't think it was 0-death...

Snake will survive the inital spike, but you can edge-hog if you got him to high enough damage, or you can do the snake-gimp by grabbing his cypher. If he's too far out, it will run out just in time for you to spike again. I've done it multiple times, so unless the Snake players I've played are missing something, it works.

 

[Squipy]

Well when I play good snakes that know the matchup well, after a cg > spike they -always- di backwards and c4 hit themselves to gain the extra height, and then cypher again. This will prevent you to gimp grab their recovery. They only way I can kill them during this is going for a bair, before the psuedo invincibility shield frames from his second cypher, because a second spike won't reach them if they di perfectly. I usually just wait for him be atop of the level, and try and go for quick bair after they airdodge.

As for the video, it was Falco's inaccuracy for sure. Wolf would not have been able to reach back on the ground of smashville, and if Falco had grabbed onto the ledge his invincibility frames would have prevented Wolf from any grab back onto the ledge.

 

[8AngeL8]

Every time I've done it to a Snake I've been able to get them even with the C4, but it's very possible I haven't played a Snake who knew how to do it perfectly.

 

[Denzi]

Well when I play good snakes that know the matchup well, after a cg > spike they -always- di backwards and c4 hit themselves to gain the extra height, and then cypher again. This will prevent you to gimp grab their recovery. They only way I can kill them during this is going for a bair, before the psuedo invincibility shield frames from his second cypher, because a second spike won't reach them if they di perfectly. I usually just wait for him be atop of the level, and try and go for quick bair after they airdodge.

As for the video, it was Falco's inaccuracy for sure. Wolf would not have been able to reach back on the ground of smashville, and if Falco had grabbed onto the ledge his invincibility frames would have prevented Wolf from any grab back onto the ledge.

This is true. Gimping Snake in any way (at least at lower percents) is difficult.
video example of my above statement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW9_gqRYv1U

 

[ftl]

To be fair, in that one, SK92 didn't even try to jump off the edge and to a second dair. Might mean it's impossible, or might mean it was thought impossible at the time.

 

[AvoiD]

FTL, in the video with Jem and Lucien; You don't always have to go for an edge-hog. He performed it right, but tried to go for a second spike most likely.

Doesn't matter what you do after you CG to Spike, that's all he asked. Edgueguarding and **** is used as well instead of hogging.

And jes, some Characters can Up-B their way out of a spike, called a meteor cancel.

 

[wangston]

The snake I play always survives the spike. He DIs way back and C4 ways high so I can't get him with a 2nd Dair. Though he has 80% on him he lives. Also I can only gimp his recovery if I grab his cyphor. If grab him and release him he has found out some sick way to DI after the C4 and still get hit by it.

 

[Squipy]

FTL, in the video with Jem and Lucien; You don't always have to go for an edge-hog. He performed it right, but tried to go for a second spike most likely.

Doesn't matter what you do after you CG to Spike, that's all he asked. Edgueguarding and **** is used as well instead of hogging.

Yeah he executed it right, but he would have killed the Wolf if he had grabbed the ledge. He was asking if it was Falco's mistake or simply impossible. In terms of killing wolf from 0% from a cg > spike, it's possible if you choose the right moves after you spike.

 

[Megavitamins]

Falco Chain grab is broken. Just saying. Seriously, he shoudn't be able to take like... a stock off of half the cast from a single grab, thats just ridiculous.

 

[8AngeL8]

No, it's not broken. It only works up to 45% at the most, and his grab range isn't that good. D3's and IC's grabs are more powerful for sure.

 

[Black_Heretic]

No, it's not broken. It only works up to 45% at the most, and his grab range isn't that good. D3's and IC's grabs are more powerful for sure.

and you can just meteor cancel the dair that follows the cg

 

[Denzi]

Generally after a Cg to spike, I just try to go for the footstool kill.
I find more reliable (depending on who I'm facing.)