CEO 2015 Will Not Have Customs Legal & 2 Stock 5 Minutes

[Claire Diviner]

Xanadu will be having customs in a couple weeks, they confirmed it on the MD/VA Facebook group, they are spending a few weeks unlocking them and then will start

Well well. I definitely have something to look forward to.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I honestly have zero problems getting custom moves from Crazy Orders. Sure, I cheese my way with a custom Mario fitted with First Striker, Home-Run Bat, and Quick Batter equipment, as well as his Fast Fireball to ensure I "PING" things to death, but you gotta do what works.

The problem is that there's no way to influence when you get customs and when you get equipment, or when a specific series's icon will show up. Smash Run was definitely the best method, because you could directly influence which character the customs would be for.

 

[Zzuxon]

It's extraordinarily stupid that he'd ban customs because he's afraid of whining and johns.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The problem is that there's no way to influence when you get customs and when you get equipment, or when a specific series's icon will show up. Smash Run was definitely the best method, because you could directly influence which character the customs would be for.

True. I manage to get an average of 5-7 custom moves from Crazy Orders, but for what characters are randomized.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

"If we allow something like Customs to open up a variety or new excitement to the game because people "think" it's already failing compared to Melee, why not just allow items as well to set it apart?"

There are so many things wrong with this sentence I don't even know where to begin.

 

[fromundaman]

and somehow playing online is gunna do this?

Playing better players over stuff like Anther's Ladder? Yeah, that can definitely help you improve.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Playing better players over stuff like Anther's Ladder? Yeah, that can definitely help you improve.

lag creates terrible habits even the smoothest online has hitches.

 

[Chzrm3]

I honestly have zero problems getting custom moves from Crazy Orders. Sure, I cheese my way with a custom Mario fitted with First Striker, Home-Run Bat, and Quick Batter equipment, as well as his Fast Fireball to ensure I "PING" things to death, but you gotta do what works.

I should try tackling it that way, thanks for the tip!

 

[Thedragon159]

Yeah it really isn't that bad it's worth it once we get the moves

 

[CaliburChamp]

Being a Florida Smasher myself. I can tell you these community members in the Florida smash scene have their own agenda's for not wanting customs. They win with their defaults and they do not want something new interferring with their winning streaks or tournament dominance. I get that Jebailey does what is best for the community, but CEO isn't a State wide tournament anymore, it is bigger than that, and people from all over America come to compete. Don't let the Florida community smashers ruin it for you guys. (Though, it sounds like Jebailey has made up his mind.)

You don't need to have all customs on anyways. Just have the customs for the characters you will use if you bring your own 3DS. It literally only takes as long as a controller button check all at the same time it can be done.

 

[Sonsa]

Customs are awesome and can really expand the game and glad to see em at EVO...but yeah, that's enough for now? Not saying lets stop, but some default movesets being the norm is...less overwhelming? The game is kinda early and many have only scratched the surface of what customs are capable of.

 

[Pikmin1211]

Well I'm pretty indifferent towards customs and such, but we really need to find some kind of unified ruleset before this turns into Brawl's stagelist...

 

[Cazdon]

Holy ****! I never realized how divided the community was on this issue. I'm going back into my hole of ignorance.

Ahhh, bliss.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

On the bright side, we can compare this to the other tournaments that have customs and then see which one has/had the better outcome?

 

[ZomBiehn]

And all our answers will be answered in July at Evo15, still no telling how customs will go, but can't knock it till you try it I guess

 

[Gidy]

Good on Jebailey! Even appart from his points, I feel like we need much, MUCH longer to figure out even the base game's balance before we actually commit to custom moves (let alone figuring out if a customs metagame is even desirable!) APEX showed off a lot of characters in ways most of us haven't seen before, proof the game is still evolving even at a character vs character level. "X" could end up being a top character, "Y" could be over-hyped now and end up vastly underwhelming in the end. There's no telling this early in the game's life.

Again, the more we use customs in tournaments the faster we can find out if they are viable or not. EVO will give us the best and fastest idea of this, so let's just see first before we wait for Diddy Kong to kill the remaining viable characters.

 

[Liggli]

Custom moves shouldn't be prohibited due to not being available in previous games. That's like not being able to trim your car in Racing games.

However, due to them all being locked at start - and no easy way to unlock - plus that custom moves has to be set in a completely different menu, and only 8 can be saved - and recreate it at every game.

Allowing moves would just result in a lot of tedious work.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Not that my own input really matters for this tournament in particular, since there's no way I can afford to go to a national any time soon but...I respectfully disagree.

I understand the reasoning, but IMO it isn't unreasonable to expect a player to do their research before going to a Smash Tournament, be they a seasoned veteran of the scene or a new player starting out for the first time. Admittedly, most new players probably won't bother to research match ups and stuff but that just means the loss is on their shoulders if they don't know what their opponent's options are.

Even though I didn't do much research into match ups, I at least spent a good amount of time reviewing the ruleset and stage list before I went to my first tournament at Civil War last year, and the players there were helpful in teaching me other things I didn't have experience with, like the stage striking system. I also got to experience first hand some of the incredible depth Smash has in general, so if anything else it was a good learning experience. I think, at least, that part of the experience should be respected- we shouldn't expect a new player to perform well in their first tournament, but we can certainly expect (and encourage!) them to learn, both before, after, and during the tournament.

That's just my 2 cents on the matter, however.

 

[chaosmasterro]

In other words, "I didn't feel like playing the game in single player mode to get customs and me and my friends who are bringing Wii Us didn't feel like it either."

 

[DaRedMage]

It's gonna be a while until Custom Moves are a generally accepted thing. I played in two Custom Moves Tournaments, it was really fun. Let me give you an example of what Custom Moves can do. I was playing against this really good Luigi who kept on beating me no matter how hard I tried. I met him again in a Custom Move Tournament a week later. But I beat him easily. Because of Lucas's PK Thunder. It was a amazing Edge-Guard, so every-time he got Off-Stage, I would use it on him. It blocked his Green Missile Recovery Option, so he could recover properly. He had to rely on his Super Jump Punch if he was lucky enough to get a chance to use it. So every-time he got off-stage, he basicly lost a stock. Normally this Luigi would kick my buttocks but with Custom Moves it offered me a new chance and drasticly changed the matchup. It made the match a whole lot interesting. That experience is the whole reason why I want Custom Moves legal everywhere. It made the match more interesting, fun and hype. Custom Moves can breathe new life into characters who don't stand a chance. It also gives the game something more unique to stand-out. Does Melee have Custom Moves that makes the game more interesting and change playstyles and matchups? I. Think. Not!

 

[captain clutch]

Diddy or Sheik to win CEO. Or Dabuz winning 5min per game.

 

[Pazzo.]

Even though I disagree, good on him for explaining his stance. It's a step further than the total nothing we got regarding why Apex's ruleset was the way it was.

That said, I think I see some flaws in the logic. Sticking to 2 Stock/5 Minutes because it's that way in For Glory makes little sense since we don't know why FG uses that setup. For all we know, it could've been intentionally short so players can do more matches, aware that a loss caused by one freak mistake that the player didn't have a chance to come back from won't mean much in the long run since it isn't a tournament setting.

And this quote:


That isn't at all why more people are in favor of customs.

Oh well.

We're still in the game's infancy... I may disagree, but this doesn't mean much considering more and more want to use customs.

 

[CaliburChamp]

>Takes customs away which could possibly make the game more interesting (or not)
>Makes 2 stock 5 min the rule
>Expects matches to fly faster simply be cuz less stocks.
>Less stocks means less flashy, but more conservative playstyle.
>Viewers will dwindle and will cause the game to die prematurely if conservative playstyle is the way to go.
>Stifled playstyle will result in people drop and pick up a high tier simply be cuz matches move faster and can easily punish ANY mistake which is great in a conservative playstyle.
>............hype?

My thoughts exactly. They obviously seen other custom move tournaments and 3 stock matches running on time. I'd like to ask them why Brawl timers were 7 minutes when Smash 4 is only 5 minutes now? Isn't that a bit unfair?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Imagine if they banned every stage except omegas. Would people start saying "No customs, 2 stock, omega stages only"?

Non FD omegas should be banned. The stages are different enough to cause recovery changes but have the same fundimental matchup and gameplay problems as the original. Just have one FD, Battlefield, and Smashville as the stage list.

 

[Patrick Ray]

It took me about 2 months to unlock all customs on Wii u. I think its been long enough that we can start using them. The longer you hold this off, the more resistant the community will become.

 

[Hellrazor]

Can't say I agree with him nor believe he knows about what he's talking, but at least he tried to explain himself.

 

[Anthon1996]

3DS + Powersaves + Import loadouts =

Note: I do not use Powersaves!

 

[SmashRayner]

fake and gay

 

[Flawed]

I am extremely happy about this decision.

We must separate custom moves from normal play.


>Takes customs away which could possibly make the game more interesting (or not)
-Most likely not
>Makes 2 stock 5 min the rule
-For Glory
>Expects matches to fly faster simply be cuz less stocks.
-They do.
>Less stocks means less flashy, but more conservative playstyle.
-No one goes for flash in smash 4 unless its a friendly or a scrub
>Viewers will dwindle and will cause the game to die prematurely if conservative playstyle is the way to go.
-Its the way to go, no doubt around that already
>Stifled playstyle will result in people drop and pick up a high tier simply be cuz matches move faster and can easily punish ANY mistake which is great in a conservative playstyle.
-Thats how it goes in most games
>............hype?
-Windbox

 

[DunnoBro]

Xanadu will be having customs in a couple weeks, they confirmed it on the MD/VA Facebook group, they are spending a few weeks unlocking them and then will start

Unlocking -and- practicing. They're mostly unlocked really.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I am extremely happy about this decision.

We must separate custom moves from normal play.


>Takes customs away which could possibly make the game more interesting (or not)
-Most likely not
>Makes 2 stock 5 min the rule
-For Glory
>Expects matches to fly faster simply be cuz less stocks.
-They do.
>Less stocks means less flashy, but more conservative playstyle.
-No one goes for flash in smash 4 unless its a friendly or a scrub
>Viewers will dwindle and will cause the game to die prematurely if conservative playstyle is the way to go.
-Its the way to go, no doubt around that already
>Stifled playstyle will result in people drop and pick up a high tier simply be cuz matches move faster and can easily punish ANY mistake which is great in a conservative playstyle.
-Thats how it goes in most games
>............hype?
-Windbox

-Yes because seeing the same game play and same moves and same playstyle is more interesting than seeing some variation. Explains why aMSa us the worst and least popular Melee player.....
-Stocks moves approximately 2 seconds slower for 2 stocks.

-You clearly don't watch enough tourneys to say that no one goes or has flashy tendencies outside of scrubs or friendlies. Stop speaking please.​

-We are simply trying to avoid the problem Brawl faced as the meta progressed and then cliff dived. Customs should he done now to see if they are any good or not.
-Smash ain't like most other fighting games.
-..................WHAT?
-Also FG isn't even close to competitive gameplay.

 

[warriorman222]

I am extremely happy about this decision.

We must separate custom moves from normal play.


>Takes customs away which could possibly make the game more interesting (or not)
-Most likely not
>Makes 2 stock 5 min the rule
-For Glory
>Expects matches to fly faster simply be cuz less stocks.
-They do.
>Less stocks means less flashy, but more conservative playstyle.
-No one goes for flash in smash 4 unless its a friendly or a scrub
>Viewers will dwindle and will cause the game to die prematurely if conservative playstyle is the way to go.
-Its the way to go, no doubt around that already
>Stifled playstyle will result in people drop and pick up a high tier simply be cuz matches move faster and can easily punish ANY mistake which is great in a conservative playstyle.
-Thats how it goes in most games
>............hype?
-Windbox

1. It makes the game more interesting confirmed. Most people think that, and since interesting i purely subjective, The more the better.
2. We should not be giving any advantages to online players in any form. Miis and Palutena are effectively banned if they don't get their sets, as using them pretty much bans you from winning.

If you do this, may as well only allow Omega Stages, completely ban Miis, and remove the % difference rule, and randomize the Omega we go on. Now it's more inviting to FG players.

3. Matches don't go faster with less stocks. They go faster with more stocks and more time encouraging people not to time out.
4. You have not watched tourneys if you think only scrubs or in friendlies people use flashy tactics. Conservative playstyles are absolute bores, and form a viewer's point they shouldn't be encouraged. Yes the players matter here, but dealing with timer stallers is the worst thing ever to watch or experience.
5. It's not the way to go if you want popular tourneys. Remember, this game's long-term survival is at stake here. What we do here, and how we do it, could make or breaks the metagame
6. DK will Storm Punch you for that comment.

Also customs can never be put in side events, or they'll just be ignored, as a thing that the community rejected. Then those will be taken out because the item argument is being used and so far, literally every person using that have made it clear they will never see a difference between the two.

Normal play is more boring imo due to lack of variety due to alot of Shiek, Rosa, Diddy, and some oddball character. in custom play,there is no clear OP character, so there is actual variety. If you don't agree that variety at no cost is good, than Amsa should drop Yoshi and go main Fox or Falco.

 

[aleckermit]

The best method I've seen for unlocking customs is playing Crazy Orders with this very OP setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXZtgV-DCCA . This person manages to reach the cap of 99 turns, and the payout afterwards is massive.

Basically you use Fox and shoot the AI, gaining a "first strike" invincibility power, and then use your homerun bat to kill the AI. Fox is the best char to use because of his blaster but this works with everyone. You have a much higher chance of getting customs for the character you're playing as, so keep that in mind.

 

[KingsHaki]

Glad customs aren't there.

 

[warriorman222]

The best method I've seen for unlocking customs is [playing Crazy Orders with this very OP setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXZtgV-DCCA . This person manages to reach the cap of 99 turns, and the payout afterwards is massive.

Basically you use Fox and shoot the AI, gaining a "first strike" invincibility power, and then use your homerun bat to kill the AI.

And it takes barely above half an hour.

Glad customs aren't there.

Why?

 

[DutchRide]

Good deal!

 

[Flawed]

"Matches go faster with more stocks and more time"

3 time outs on 5 minutes equals 15 minutes of game time.
3 time outs of 8 minutes equals 24 minutes of game time.

"Customs should be tried out"

Does anyone remember 3DS tournaments? Or did they not exist?

"You have not watched tourneys if you think only scrubs or in friendlies people use flashy tactics. Conservative playstyles are absolute bores, and form a viewer's point they shouldn't be encouraged."

Welp, sure go prove me wrong with something cool and awesome that can't be countered by playing safe. The optimal way to play is what will reign, and there is no changing that or as it seems you want - to force that change.

" Remember, this game's long-term survival is at stake here. What we do here, and how we do it, could make or breaks the metagame"

So somehow the entire game is at stake because what? Like is there a mob of 3 million people about to run to play melee? I doubt it.

"Normal play is more boring imo due to lack of variety due to alot of Shiek, Rosa, Diddy, and some oddball character. in custom play,there is no clear OP character, so there is actual variety. If you don't agree that variety at no cost is good, than Amsa should drop Yoshi and go main Fox or Falco."

We have shieks, rosas, diddys, falcons, pikachus, sonics, GANONDORFS, villagers, ness, D3's , DK's, ZSS's , ROBs
all in our local tournament scene. Just because NJ streams the same people over and over does not mean the whole world is like that


yes, amsa should drop Yoshi, and have a stronger character so he would have a better chance at winning, because yoshi is bad. and once someone learns yoshi gimmicks, it can and should turn into a slaughter

 

[Hippieslayer]

"sticking to my guns"

more like sticking to my club what with the caveman logic

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't think 3DS tournaments are a very good indicator of anything besides the control scheme inhibiting a lot of the ways you can play specific characters + Vectoring (at least vertically)

I don't consider that valid test samples for customs when controlling the characters was the hardest part about that version of the game.

 

[SuaveChaser]

That timer will be a issue.