CEO 2015 Will Not Have Customs Legal & 2 Stock 5 Minutes

[SuperDuperFightingRobot]

That sucks.

 

[Diabolical]

It's gonna be a while until Custom Moves are a generally accepted thing. I played in two Custom Moves Tournaments, it was really fun. Let me give you an example of what Custom Moves can do. I was playing against this really good Luigi who kept on beating me no matter how hard I tried. I met him again in a Custom Move Tournament a week later. But I beat him easily. Because of Lucas's PK Thunder. It was a amazing Edge-Guard, so every-time he got Off-Stage, I would use it on him. It blocked his Green Missile Recovery Option, so he could recover properly. He had to rely on his Super Jump Punch if he was lucky enough to get a chance to use it. So every-time he got off-stage, he basicly lost a stock. Normally this Luigi would kick my buttocks but with Custom Moves it offered me a new chance and drasticly changed the matchup. It made the match a whole lot interesting. That experience is the whole reason why I want Custom Moves legal everywhere. It made the match more interesting, fun and hype. Custom Moves can breathe new life into characters who don't stand a chance. It also gives the game something more unique to stand-out. Does Melee have Custom Moves that makes the game more interesting and change playstyles and matchups? I. Think. Not!

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I will explain why people that play Melee would hate that. First, why do people like Melee? People play Melee because it is a very streamlined, researched, well understood metagame that encourages play that is entertaining and fun for us. Matchups are well understood and optimisation up until this point is only limited by how quickly the adaptation skills of the player is to read DI, tech chases, edguards ect. and also how quickly the player is at moving the character (20XX). This means that at the top level, matches are incredibly interesting and dynamic and the real appeal is not the mactchup (match ups have basically been well defined for years, of course debates still exist but it's not the appeal. Yoshi is a good example). The appeal is the skill displayed on the battlefield of the players and how well they adapted to the competitive environment.

Why people that play Melee would hate customs is because of 2 reasons, one is the short term affect of what you described above. Without time to analyse the matchups for the outcomes of each custom combination, the outcome will definitely result in unfair advantages and won't always allow the best player to win.
The second reason is even if everyone understands the matchups and say that Ness customs 1-2-2-3 beat Luigi, this just gives overcentralised focus on Customs instead of skill. It's exactly what happened in Project M 3.02, where all the specials and recoveries were a significant reason why many characters were viable (or even overpowered). So instead of the game being about manipulation of weak and reverse hitboxes to follow up combos, PM turned into overpowered moves spam fest (for clarification this is hardly a problem in 3.5).
People that play Melee don't like a focus on Special moves (unless it is shine, I guess) because overpowered specials are gimmicky and don't require skill or spacing to just spam.

 

[warriorman222]

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I will explain why people that play Melee would hate that. First, why do people like Melee? People play Melee because it is a very streamlined, researched, well understood metagame that encourages play that is entertaining and fun for us. Matchups are well understood and optimisation up until this point is only limited by how quickly the adaptation skills of the player is to read DI, tech chases, edguards ect. and also how quickly the player is at moving the character (20XX). This means that at the top level, matches are incredibly interesting and dynamic and the real appeal is not the mactchup (match ups have basically been well defined for years, of course debates still exist but it's not the appeal. Yoshi is a good example). The appeal is the skill displayed on the battlefield of the players and how well they adapted to the competitive environment.

Why people that play Melee would hate customs is because of 2 reasons, one is the short term affect of what you described above. Without time to analyse the matchups for the outcomes of each custom combination, the outcome will definitely result in unfair advantages and won't always allow the best player to win.
The second reason is even if everyone understands the matchups and say that Ness customs 1-2-2-3 beat Luigi, this just gives overcentralised focus on Customs instead of skill. It's exactly what happened in Project M 3.02, where all the specials and recoveries were a significant reason why many characters were viable (or even overpowered). So instead of the game being about manipulation of weak and reverse hitboxes to follow up combos, PM turned into overpowered moves spam fest (for clarification this is hardly a problem in 3.5).
People that play Melee don't like a focus on Special moves (unless it is shine, I guess) because overpowered specials are gimmicky and don't require skill or spacing to just spam.

Agreed mostly, but there are no overpowered specials, and Melee players are entitled to their opinions. We are entitled to ours.

 

[RADSheikah]

*complains about Smash 4 being too defensive*
*makes the rules 2 stock so you have to play defensively*

 

[LimitCrown]

I don't see how 2 stocks would make Smash 4 more defensive. If people had the opportunities to play defensively early in a match, how would 3 stocks prevent people from doing that earlier?

 

[Snowking]

Customs makes more characters viable, simple as that.

Without custom moves, quite a few characters are not really viable at high level... with customs... we dont know.

Not trying customs out is plain stupid, just as stupid as it would be to try them out, see that they dont work, and keep them. But again, not trying them out at least, is really really stupid.

You dont see skullgirls tournaments banning custom assists, u dont see mvc3 tournaments forcing players to use the recommended assists, and u dont see usfiv tournaments forcing players to use ultra 1.

The unlocking process is bull****, but u can powersave urself through them.

Its stupid not to try them out.

 

[Diabolical]

Customs makes more characters viable, simple as that.

Without custom moves, quite a few characters are not really viable at high level... with customs... we dont know.

Not trying customs out is plain stupid, just as stupid as it would be to try them out, see that they dont work, and keep them. But again, not trying them out at least, is really really stupid.

You dont see skullgirls tournaments banning custom assists, u dont see mvc3 tournaments forcing players to use the recommended assists, and u dont see usfiv tournaments forcing players to use ultra 1.

The unlocking process is bull****, but u can powersave urself through them.

Its stupid not to try them out.

Just so you are aware, the main reason to not have them is because the majority of people (probably 99% of them) will not acquire all custom moves for themselves and thus result in matchups never being practiced or even potential overpowered custom counters (counters for specific matchups I mean) being abused since not everyone will be aware of these moves. It makes perfect sense honestly, it really is unfair to expect people to battle against an RNG for months just to have proper practice with these moves.

 

[Sleek Media]

1) Run tournament like it's For Glory.

2) Blame Smash 4 when turnout is disappointing.

3) ???

4) Profit?

 

[Diabolical]

Agreed mostly, but there are no overpowered specials, and Melee players are entitled to their opinions. We are entitled to ours.

Cool mate, but in my opinion it is a stretch to assume all of these specials are balanced perfectly by Sakurai. That's why I think the argument of overcentralisation by some specials is a reasonable expectation and that I say 'gimmick'! But I do wonder if more or less people will like Smash4 if it does become incredibly gimmicky. It will be very flashy and exciting, but fundamentals will be less rewarded.

How strong counters already are, are a good example of what I mean by a gimmick btw. Counters were near useless in Melee (except for edge guards) so you would think it's a good idea to make them stronger so they can be viable. But then it becomes a viable option to spam an OP special instead of fundamentally starting combos with footsies and spacing.
I am not sure if explained that well, but I hope you get what I mean. I really do only speak from a Melee perspective here so I am interested to see what comes from these customs - especially if it something I don't expect.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

My girl Lady Palutena, you shall shine in a major tourney someday.

I'm hearing many excellent points on both ends, those saying that we can't push customs off much longer as we have and embrace them due to how quick they can get into sets through that one users method, others saying that they aren't balanced around competitive gameplay and, while flashy and exciting, believe they'd be seen as gimmicky or that the various customs and properties of them you'd have to learn would be overwhelming.

I'm for sure welcome to them. My local scene has have had quite a few custom-centric tournaments, and while I was at times caught off guard by how some moves worked, I never felt cheated because of not understanding a move, for excellent fundamentals were still key. That being said, I hope we see these utilized in major tourneys. I haven't seen many streams use them in competition, and I'm curious how to players make use of these in play.

 

[popo12]

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I will explain why people that play Melee would hate that. First, why do people like Melee? People play Melee because it is a very streamlined, researched, well understood metagame that encourages play that is entertaining and fun for us. Matchups are well understood and optimisation up until this point is only limited by how quickly the adaptation skills of the player is to read DI, tech chases, edguards ect. and also how quickly the player is at moving the character (20XX). This means that at the top level, matches are incredibly interesting and dynamic and the real appeal is not the mactchup (match ups have basically been well defined for years, of course debates still exist but it's not the appeal. Yoshi is a good example). The appeal is the skill displayed on the battlefield of the players and how well they adapted to the competitive environment.

Why people that play Melee would hate customs is because of 2 reasons, one is the short term affect of what you described above. Without time to analyse the matchups for the outcomes of each custom combination, the outcome will definitely result in unfair advantages and won't always allow the best player to win.
The second reason is even if everyone understands the matchups and say that Ness customs 1-2-2-3 beat Luigi, this just gives overcentralised focus on Customs instead of skill. It's exactly what happened in Project M 3.02, where all the specials and recoveries were a significant reason why many characters were viable (or even overpowered). So instead of the game being about manipulation of weak and reverse hitboxes to follow up combos, PM turned into overpowered moves spam fest (for clarification this is hardly a problem in 3.5).
People that play Melee don't like a focus on Special moves (unless it is shine, I guess) because overpowered specials are gimmicky and don't require skill or spacing to just spam.

The matchups and mechanics in Melee are well understood because the game is 13 years old. If Smash 4 was nearing it's 14th year of competitive play, even with customs on, it would probably be a similar situation. If you have a new game with new stuff, it's going to take some time to learn how to play around things. If the reaction to every new thing is to ban it, then nobody learns anything.

And don't forget that Melee has its fair share of BS moves. Fox usmash, shine, Peach dsmash, etc. It's just that when people play the game for a long time and take the time to actually learn it, they find options to play around these things. Everybody's knee jerk reaction to 4 and PM is to whine and go back to Melee, but both games are still very young, and have a lot more viable options than Melee ever did or ever will. There's a chance that there are customs or characters in this game that break it, but there's no way of knowing that if nobody gives it a chance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The matchups and mechanics in Melee are well understood because the game is 13 years old. If Smash 4 was nearing it's 14th year of competitive play, even with customs on, it would probably be a similar situation. If you have a new game with new stuff, it's going to take some time to learn how to play around things. If the reaction to every new thing is to ban it, then nobody learns anything.

I remember similar debates concerning wavedashes, which had the potential to COMPLETELY CHANGE THE METAGAME OF MELEE, and it didn't get banned. In fact, it was encouraged. Now, the same people are AGAINST custom moves, which may be far from being the same thing as wavedashes, but still has the potential to change the metagame.

The only reason I can see a TO ban customs is because of how much time it actually takes to unlock them all in each Wii U/3DS, then making the custom sets. It is a very long and tedious task. (Please give us a 100% DLC, Sakurai-san)

And don't forget that Melee has its fair share of BS moves. Fox usmash, shine, Peach dsmash, etc. It's just that when people play the game for a long time and take the time to actually learn it, they find options to play around these things. Everybody's knee jerk reaction to 4 and PM is to whine and go back to Melee, but both games are still very young, and have a lot more viable options than Melee ever did or ever will. There's a chance that there are customs or characters in this game that break it, but there's no way of knowing that if nobody gives it a chance.

This. This. A million times this. Competitive players should've taken the time to try out custom moves in their free time to see if there was anything game-breaking, even if TOs kept banning them, because each Smash title introduced its own set of techniques that makes it unique compared to the orhers; 64 has a ton of combos and only 3 specials, Melee has the wavedash, Brawl makes everyone feel like Jigglypuff and for Smash 4, it's the customs. If we managed to accept everything the past Smashes had to offer, why suddenly hate the new thing that makes Smash 4 unique? If we want to prevent Brawl 2.0, we need to ban the least amount of content as possible from Smash 4 tournaments. Customs have a lot of potential and the majority of Smash 4 players are supporting the idea of legalizing them in tournaments, so why let the minority win?


Also, 2 stocks 5 minutes? inb4 the only legal stages are Omega forms

 

[Snipnigth]

one thing im really hating about smash 4 is camping a lot of players just wait for time out too win, specially sonics and rosalinas, its so dam boring and anoying to watch....thats why i despise seagull's sonic, he is always camping hitting and running, last tornament i wastched from vgb was boss vs seagull seagull won because of time out, the entire game he was playing that campiish defensive style just wating it out...im just hoping 5min games dosent make it easier for them to camp it out, at least the torture will end 1 minute earlier.

 

[warriorman222]

one thing im really hating about smash 4 is camping a lot of players just wait for time out too win, specially sonics and rosalinas, its so dam boring and anoying to watch....thats why i despise seagull's sonic, he is always camping hitting and running, last tornament i wastched from vgb was boss vs seagull seagull won because of time out, the entire game he was playing that campiish defensive style just wating it out...im just hoping 5min games dosent make it easier for them to camp it out, at least the torture will end 1 minute earlier.

Or change it for 8 minutes 3 stocks where stocks last 2 seconds shorter(and those calcs are off with Diddy everywhere making them way shorter single handedly, Diddy alone, ignoring others could be like 25 seconds.), you wait an extra 3 minutes if you really want to time-out, and where comebacks are possible, and accidental SDs not insta-losses.

 

[Shawn Michael Slaughter]

That is very faulty logic. Only if customs were unlockable from hours spent in training, vs or online would your post hold water, but the way it is now any time you dedicate to unlocking customs is time you are not spending improving as a player.

That's a main problem with this. I haven't seen any customs drop in battle like with trophies or CDs, but honestly there should be a system for custom moves (and NOT equipment) to show up in regular smash. Like, have them drop in like the trophies, have it where if you play for a certain amount of time consecutively (Let's say 1/2 an hour?), and random chance to unlock them at the end of matches. It'd be much better. Since I really don't feel the motivation to go through classic and all-star with every freaking character

one thing im really hating about smash 4 is camping a lot of players just wait for time out too win, specially sonics and rosalinas, its so dam boring and anoying to watch....thats why i despise seagull's sonic, he is always camping hitting and running, last tornament i wastched from vgb was boss vs seagull seagull won because of time out, the entire game he was playing that campiish defensive style just wating it out...im just hoping 5min games dosent make it easier for them to camp it out, at least the torture will end 1 minute earlier.

I can't stand Sonic in general in this game. It just feels like he has one combo/strategy. Spam side special, if it hits, follow up. If not, run away and try again or homing attack. And it's unfortunate because I really want to play him, but it feels like that's the only way to get consistent damage and combo.

 

[Shawn Michael Slaughter]

I don't see how 2 stocks would make Smash 4 more defensive. If people had the opportunities to play defensively early in a match, how would 3 stocks prevent people from doing that earlier?

Because with 2 stocks, you have far less leeway for mistakes and less time to analyze your opponent and learn their patterns. So you play defensively and be careful about your every last move so you don't do a stupid SD or leave yourself open for a big attack.

With 3 stocks, you have a whole 'nother stock to work with. So if what you did that first life doesn't work out, you can try something different the next stock and still have another life to adapt. 2 stocks is incredibly restricting and unfair in my opinion. Brawl was a defensive game and yet they still got 4 stocks. So why can't we at the very least get 3 for Smash 4?

Just so you are aware, the main reason to not have them is because the majority of people (probably 99% of them) will not acquire all custom moves for themselves and thus result in matchups never being practiced or even potential overpowered custom counters (counters for specific matchups I mean) being abused since not everyone will be aware of these moves. It makes perfect sense honestly, it really is unfair to expect people to battle against an RNG for months just to have proper practice with these moves.

And that main reason is dumb. Yes a majority of people don't have them now, but in a few months that number will shrink. And even if you don't have them, you can probably find a way to see or practice with them. We can advertise what specials we have, hookup online, and test things. We have the 3DS to transfer over thanks to it being easier to get them there. We have YouTube for people to upload the movesets and show their findings. There are so many different ways to make this work, and to simply say "It's too hard/long to get them all" is lazy as hell. Besides, the sooner you rip off that band-aid, the better it'll be. So if we rip off this barrier preventing us from getting customs made official now, then the process of integrating, researching, etc. can be allowed to evolve and flourish.

 

[EpixAura]

Because with 2 stocks, you have far less leeway for mistakes and less time to analyze your opponent and learn their patterns. So you play defensively and be careful about your every last move so you don't do a stupid SD or leave yourself open for a big attack.

With 3 stocks, you have a whole 'nother stock to work with. So if what you did that first life doesn't work out, you can try something different the next stock and still have another life to adapt. 2 stocks is incredibly restricting and unfair in my opinion. Brawl was a defensive game and yet they still got 4 stocks. So why can't we at the very least get 3 for Smash 4?

The idea of 2 stocks isn't enough time to properly adapt has never sat right with me. 2-stock Smash 4 generally takes about as long as 4-stock Melee. Saying that 2 stock doesn't give players enough time to adapt is almost like saying Melee should be 6 stock.
As for SDs, if you manage to SD, or even get gimped in Smash 4, you probably deserve the loss. Naturally, there are a few situations that are exceptions, but for the most part, there's not an excuse for SDing in this game. In addition, if you fall behind a stock in this game, it's very difficult to come back, and just because you have more time to do so doesn't fix the root of the problem. Also, top level players are going to play just as defensively in either a 2 or 3 stock scenario, although it probably will be different for most other players.

Lastly, Brawl had 3 stocks not 4, and towards the end of its life, people tried switching from 3-stock Bo3 to 1-stock Bo5. The only reason it stayed 3-stock throughout its life span is because it's very difficult to change the rules once they've been made. People don't want to make the same mistake with Smash 4, especially since it's already receiving so much criticism from other communities.

On an unrelated note, it really should be 6 minutes instead of 5. I can see a lot of reasons why they would do 5 minutes, but I can see even more flaws in that logic.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

*complains about Smash 4 being too defensive*
*makes the rules 2 stock so you have to play defensively*

The reason Smash 4 is too defensive in a professional setting is because of the stupid rage mechanic. After one stock is taken the person winning wants to sit on rage to potentially KO the opponent a second time to win the round. And it's because of that comeback factor (if you can even call it comeback since sometimes it does the opposite of that) there isn't any form of safety unless you have a stock to lose. If rage was removed entirely the game wouldn't be played so defensively but that's never going to happen.

 

[Seagull Joe]

one thing im really hating about smash 4 is camping a lot of players just wait for time out too win, specially sonics and rosalinas, its so dam boring and anoying to watch....thats why i despise seagull's sonic, he is always camping hitting and running, last tornament i wastched from vgb was boss vs seagull seagull won because of time out, the entire game he was playing that campiish defensive style just wating it out...im just hoping 5min games dosent make it easier for them to camp it out, at least the torture will end 1 minute earlier.

Welcome to smash 4. If you watch most of the set you would notice I'm the one approaching significantly more. Why would I continue approaching when I have a 100% lead vs Mario? Stay mad LMFAO.

 

[Snipnigth]

Welcome to smash 4. If you watch most of the set you would notice I'm the one approaching significantly more. Why would I continue approaching when I have a 100% lead vs Mario? Stay mad LMFAO.

Too end the stock bro! not just wating it out, and doing it with sonic is just really annoying cuz he is so fast its almost impossible to catch....i know its not illigal and you guys must do everything to win....but its just a lame ass way to win...congrats in your win, i dont hate you, i just hate how you play sonic.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Too end the stock bro! not just wating it out, and doing it with sonic is just really annoying cuz he is so fast its almost impossible to catch....i know its not illigal and you guys must do everything to win....but its just a lame *** way to win...congrats in your win, i dont hate you, i just hate how you play sonic.

Ending the stock is fine, but it's not like I can just throw out kill moves versus a player as smart as Boss and he'll die. If he chooses to camp me, I'll camp him back. He timed me out with Mario and then I timed him out the subsequent game.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

and somehow playing online is gunna do this?

Yes. Assuming one's internet is good, you'd be amazed how lag-free online Smash 4 can really be. I ought to know. Of course, it's also dependent on the opponent's internet too, but I seldom have problems myself.

I second this. I played online for a good two hours today. Not one single moment of lag, not a one.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Thank the Lord.

More or less for the time limit more than anything else tho

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Welcome to smash 4. If you watch most of the set you would notice I'm the one approaching significantly more. Why would I continue approaching when I have a 100% lead vs Mario? Stay mad LMFAO.

Thought you quoted me...my mistake.

 

[Thedragon159]

Doesn't matter every character in this game is **** on by diddy and I quit playing tonight cause it's so obvious it's broken endless uprthrow that basically combos every time? Why is it the monkey that wins? Cause sakurai sucks and is trolling every competitive player out there I quit

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Doesn't matter every character in this game is **** on by diddy and I quit playing tonight cause it's so obvious it's broken endless uprthrow that basically combos every time? Why is it the monkey that wins? Cause sakurai sucks and is trolling every competitive player out there I quit

That salt is real in this post.

Anyways, I'm a huge fan of customs but I understand why they would be not allowed in competetive play. A lot of variables that makes MU's unfair and unbalanced. I am excited to see if Evo will continue to have customs and how they will be handled.

 

[captain clutch]

That salt is real in this post.

Anyways, I'm a huge fan of customs but I understand why they would be not allowed in competetive play. A lot of variables that makes MU's unfair and unbalanced. I am excited to see if Evo will continue to have customs and how they will be handled.

I'd argue customs present the opportunity to make MUs more balanced. In standard play, a good DK would have a hard time vs a good Diddy, a good Villager would have a hard time vs a Sonic. But with customs, these MUs become more up in the air, and balanced. Though a villager may not use the same set vs a Sonic as he/she would against a DDD. It gives characters and players an option to adapt, bringing more depth to the meta.

 

[HavocThunder]

Here's my problem with this whole thing:

CEO's answer is not "We're working as hard as we can to make custom moves happen for everybody" It's "They're banned because we don't want to find a solution" There's a perfectly reasonable solution with taking advantage of Smash 3DS. Why is that feature to move sets there, then? To be ignored?

If TOs didn't kick the can down the road when Smash 3DS FIRST came out, we wouldn't be hearing all these excuses from TOs everywhere about customs on Wii U NOW. It's THEIR fault for not putting in the work, not the player's, not the game's.

Things are only moving forward now because EVO stopped making excuses, and that's sad. It's almost why I'm done with this community. The players and the game don't really matter, it's only about what the top tournaments and players think.

EDIT: This goes for all the stages with unique mechanics too!

 

[CEOJebailey]

It has absolutely nothing to do with the laziness of TOs like you're assuming. I'm actually playing my 3DS at work every day unlocking everything using the Home button method in Classic mode. It is a complete chore to unlock everything.

Like I've said many times, if everything was unlocked or default custom move sets were available with a single code then I'd have no problems using it because it would be an equal playing field for people to take the time to learn all the moves and practice up without having to dedicate weeks unlocking stuff in single player modes.

Don't forget EVO won't allow you to use your own 3DS to update your move sets mid tournament as most FGC events don't with any sort of game where you can transfer memory over on the fly. I hope people don't get confused by that(its something I also agree with) I hope the community Moveset idea works out and everyone agrees to custom sets but then I just see most not getting used and a top 8 having the same top players win without custom move sets.

If I had access to using custom move sets as a tournament player and couldn't use my own, but would have to use what everyone else agreed on, I'd see no point to use pre set move sets if it doesn't have exactly what I've been practicing with.

Everytime I see votes for Customs on at tournaments, it's by the spectators saying they'd like to see the variety(One had 80% voting for customs on while that same poll had like 70% saying they've never attended a tournament before), not most of the players. Which is why once registration begins and Smash 4 entrants start signing up I will give them a chance to let me know if it is what they want because it's for the players to dictate what they want in a tournament, not spectators, and I'll make it happen.

It's a pretty heated topic at the end of the day if they should be on or off so we'll see how things continue to transpire as more and more people start using customs now to find out if they're balanced enough for tournament play.

PS Good luck convincing any tournament smash player to turn stage hazards on.

 

[Juggleguy]

Here's my problem with this whole thing:

CEO's answer is not "We're working as hard as we can to make custom moves happen for everybody" It's "They're banned because we don't want to find a solution" There's a perfectly reasonable solution with taking advantage of Smash 3DS. Why is that feature to move sets there, then? To be ignored?

If TOs didn't kick the can down the road when Smash 3DS FIRST came out, we wouldn't be hearing all these excuses from TOs everywhere about customs on Wii U NOW. It's THEIR fault for not putting in the work, not the player's, not the game's.

Things are only moving forward now because EVO stopped making excuses, and that's sad. It's almost why I'm done with this community. The players and the game don't really matter, it's only about what the top tournaments and players think.

EDIT: This goes for all the stages with unique mechanics too!

No, just no.

How about you host a tourney with 1000+ unique entrants and successfully meet every single possible need and want and whim of everyone in attendance while taking care of logistics perfectly. Then come back and tell Jebailey how to run things.

What's next, should we run a 1000-player round robin format to achieve 100% accurate results, because the TOs are "not working hard enough" to provide that accuracy right now? Give me a break.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I wrote earlier that I disagreed with the decision, however, I definitely sympathize with it and understand where he's coming from. It simply is a lot of extra effort to be put into something that perhaps not every player is going to agree to.

As far as getting the practice in, I personally still think it isn't *that* difficult or time-consuming to acquire the customs for the 1 or 2 characters a given player might use. Also, there are character boards on here for a reason- you can discuss possible uses for these moves or even look at what other characters might use. There's also videos on youtube you can dig up, so it's not like it's impossible to study up on everyone's options before going to a tournament. But as far as making a tournament set up have every custom move, and then multiplying that by every Wii U console you'll need to have a reasonable amount of set ups for the tournament? Even for a small local tournament that would be a big problem.

Truth be told, he's right that a lot of the people asking for them are spectators. And as far as this tournament is concerned, that also applies to me. Ultimately you gotta do what the player's want, and what's healthy for the community. If that means no custom moves for this tournament then that's okay. I can respect that.

 

[CgWorldNation97]

They should just add customs in.

 

[HavocThunder]

No, just no.

How about you host a tourney with 1000+ unique entrants and successfully meet every single possible need and want and whim of everyone in attendance while taking care of logistics perfectly. Then come back and tell Jebailey how to run things.

What's next, should we run a 1000-player round robin format to achieve 100% accurate results, because the TOs are "not working hard enough" to provide that accuracy right now? Give me a break.

I put my actions and my money where my mouth is. As a player, I have the power to choose what tournaments I play in. That's exactly why I'm NOT going to CEO, DON'T support it, AND voicing my opinions here about why. If more people did that, I guarantee CEO would stop making excuses and do something about it quickly.

I willingly stopped going to my local events because the stages I like to play aren't there and flawed reasoning is used to ban them instead of facts. When something is done about it, I will come back.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I approve.

 

[Enderman1021]

[url=http://imgur.com/jt5i5s0][/URL]

 

[Silvia]

That's great the timer is different and there will be another CEO this yr.

 

[Soupy]

I can't wait to see Sonic, Rosalina, and Duck Hunt timeouts. Timeout hype?

It's the championship match. Pride is on the line. A bead of sweat rolls down both of the player's faces, both equal in skill.
It's apparent what they both need to do.

Their cursors hang over the one true character. The time out king.

Lock-in sounds both play at the same time.
The crowd goes wild.

Mii sword fighter dittos

 

[Thedragon159]

Well they will be eventually there is almost no reason not to even changing your stats seems balanced enough just wait this is gonna be smash 4s thing

 

[Sleek Media]

Ending the stock is fine, but it's not like I can just throw out kill moves versus a player as smart as Boss and he'll die. If he chooses to camp me, I'll camp him back. He timed me out with Mario and then I timed him out the subsequent game.

It's hard to believe that Sonic can't chase Mario down if he wants to engage. I watched both sets. There is a difference between the timeout you lost and the timeout you won.

 

[HavocThunder]

It has absolutely nothing to do with the laziness of TOs like you're assuming. I'm actually playing my 3DS at work every day unlocking everything using the Home button method in Classic mode. It is a complete chore to unlock everything.

Like I've said many times, if everything was unlocked or default custom move sets were available with a single code then I'd have no problems using it because it would be an equal playing field for people to take the time to learn all the moves and practice up without having to dedicate weeks unlocking stuff in single player modes.

Don't forget EVO won't allow you to use your own 3DS to update your move sets mid tournament as most FGC events don't with any sort of game where you can transfer memory over on the fly. I hope people don't get confused by that(its something I also agree with) I hope the community Moveset idea works out and everyone agrees to custom sets but then I just see most not getting used and a top 8 having the same top players win without custom move sets.

If I had access to using custom move sets as a tournament player and couldn't use my own, but would have to use what everyone else agreed on, I'd see no point to use pre set move sets if it doesn't have exactly what I've been practicing with.

Everytime I see votes for Customs on at tournaments, it's by the spectators saying they'd like to see the variety(One had 80% voting for customs on while that same poll had like 70% saying they've never attended a tournament before), not most of the players. Which is why once registration begins and Smash 4 entrants start signing up I will give them a chance to let me know if it is what they want because it's for the players to dictate what they want in a tournament, not spectators, and I'll make it happen.

It's a pretty heated topic at the end of the day if they should be on or off so we'll see how things continue to transpire as more and more people start using customs now to find out if they're balanced enough for tournament play.

PS Good luck convincing any tournament smash player to turn stage hazards on.

RIGHT NOW, I'm refusing to go to tournaments because people like me get thrown under the bus from TOs with comments like this. Maybe you don't even realize it, which is why I'm telling you now. I'm a tournament player, AND I also like stage hazards and customs. It's not mutually exclusive, and I'm living proof of that. In fact, the sole reason I made an account on SmashBoards is to share my research and help educate players on how stages with hazards are competitive. So you're completely and directly getting in the way of my positive efforts right now. Why should I give any more of my money and support to people who pretend like my efforts don't matter?

Regardless of how *you* think I should be playing this game, I have my own informed opinion because I actually play it. I have a bottom line expectation for how I want to both PLAY, EXPERIENCE, and WATCH Smash 4 and that's: I need to see customs at Smash tournaments.

As a player, I trust the custom move project, and even though it's not PERFECT, it's a SOLUTION that makes sense to me. Something I can get behind. It only takes 2 weeks of on/off play to get all the customs, but I'M OK WITH PRESETS. *only if TOs are currently working to unlock all the customs on every Wii U they use NOW* I can make my player's guarantee that I will be very happy with any TO who can make this guarantee for me. And not happy with TOs who want to make excuses about it.

The Smash community has done an amazing job of compiling all these different preset options together, so I think it needs to be tried. If you don't have any better ideas about logistics, and all you have is "no, no, no", then I will continue to not support Smash 4 at CEO, like I don't support Smash 4 at locals currently, and I encourage others to do the same.

It should be a community-wide effort to make sure everyone has custom moves, so I'll propose a solution myself for TOs. Local scenes could take one week out of their tournament schedules to host sessions where the community unlocks the moves together. With that many people playing co-op in every mode, every donated setup will make HUGE progress in getting them all. Then there'll never be a problem again. As a player, I'll do my best to come to these events and help my local scene out! :-)

So if I can come up with solutions in this post, why can't you?

EDIT: I'm saying all this as someone who LIKES watching CEO for other fighting games and has supported CEO in the past!