Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[Kantrip]

So I totally NAILED that test yesterday . I'll catch up and convince you all why PL is scum today (hopefully) but if not over the weekend.

Tomorrow not today Vanz.

Do it whenever you have a chance, really. If you get it done then post it by all means as I want to see it for multiple reasons.

 

[vanderzant]

That's all there really is to it Kantrip, PL didn't get involved when there was a lynch choice between Vinyl/You; he was content to sit back and let either player be lynched. Ran would of had an opinion on the wagons if he was Town, or he would of asked questions to try and form one. If you want to see more of why this is weird, go to the end of page 23 and see the massive playstyle shift once Rajam CC's Cop. He immediately begins to question/pursue stuff. He even immediately tries to connect RR/Mac/Marshy to x1 scum.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Alright Ran, you find me scummy because Joey defended DH. Cool. But I'm not Joey, so I can't explain his thought process outside of "you're wrong." Are you trying to convince others of a Joey/DH/Vinyl scum team, or are you looking for me to explain Joey's actions?



Fair enough that it was close to deadline, but after the extension was given, how come you just sat back without pushing Kantrip, the player you supposedly wanted to lynch?



This was well after a deadline extension had been given. You're just asking others for their thoughts, acknowledging existing support for the wagon, while giving no opinion of your own.

You literally did nothing wrt to the Kantrip/Vinyl pushes, until Rajam came in and counterclaimed and it was suddenly irrelevant. It is very scummy that you didn't get your hands dirty with either wagon, but instead asked for support on Kantrip without giving your own thoughts or trying to follow up a supposed scum read. I'd expect you to try and make the best of the deadline extension.

Underlined, yes that is what I am doing, because I can see Joey/DH connections. You haven't had much connection to DH and your play hasn't really stuck out to me so I feel it is possible for you to be scum.

At the time I was in class. So I just hopped on the biggests wagon I could to help since time was waning. I was busy with school.

I had no thoughts, I was null on him. I was going to leave him to my other head because she said she would read him better. Otherwise from his interactions with me earlier on in the day, I had no opinion of it. Just that he never got around to committing to his 'dislike' of your slot. Any thought on that, Vandy?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

J, I specifically want you to give an opinion on my Joey/DH case. I remember earlier on in the day you didn't really read the arguments between me and Joey, so I want you now to read them, and give opinions on them. Then on the case.

Thank you. : ]

 

[Kantrip]

Oh alright. I expected there to be more than that, honestly.

The way Vinyl reacted in that one scenario when PL asked him to vote is gross. I seriously can't see it being anything BUT SvS. Knowing Vinyl scum, if he weren't aligned with PL he definitely would have responded in some way. It's just the natural reaction for him, and I know it. The only reason he COMPLIED with the request WITHOUT acknowledging it is because it came from his scummate.

Ran ignoring the wagons is of course also of note. The reason for this is that he didn't want to draw an unnecessary connection between himself and his scummate. Either action he took could have done that. Siding with a Vinyl lynch is dangerous because
A. Vinyl's response could be incriminating for PL
B. Someone could catch something as distancing
While siding with the Kantrip lynch would be dangerous because it could help to draw a connection to Vinyl should one of them flip. The intent for PL not choosing a wagon at that time was because he didn't have to, and why take such a risky action unnecessarily? PL chose to get involved ONLY when they HAD to get involved: When the lynch was confirmed to be between one of the two targets. In this situation, PL chooses to go with Kantrip for the artificial reason of "it has more support". NOT ONLY was this false both in votes and in voice, but it also lines up perfectly with the scum intent behind keeping the team safe.

Picture this: You're worried about Vinyl's reaction to something incriminating himself, and even possibly incriminating you as well by extension. You instruct Vinyl not to address you whenever possible and you choose to basically ignore him when "deciding" what lynch to join for the Day. You hop on the lynch that is not Vinyl with the reasoning of "it has more support". As planned, Vinyl ignores you and you get by with little to no reasoning for the lynch. For good measure/town points, you make sure to mention you'll hop on the opposite wagon if that's what town wants (if it gets more support). Funny, it already has more support.

I'm going off on a tangent, though. Basically, I'm saying Pink Lemonade's actions in this situation line up very well with scum motivation of self and team preservation, and have very little grounds in town motivation of find and lynch scum. I can see no reason to ignore the issue until forced to address it, and then go with the "path of least resistance" that actually has more resistance. It just doesn't make sense.

Then there's the early game distancing. I truly do think the Dark Horse/Pink Lemonade interactions are distancing. I think I already showed this earlier, but I'm open to looking back at it.

I'm with vandy on this one, even though I said I'd wait to reread Pink Lemonade. I will still reread, of course, but it'll be with the goal of either keeping or changing my read, and not forming one.

 

[vanderzant]

Iirc his dislike wasn't of me directly, but rather my catch up post. He thought it was pretty surface level (which it was, because I was simply pointing out things I disliked/liked), and I was still catching up at the time. Not sure why you'd expect him to vote me for catching up poorly.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Iirc his dislike wasn't of me directly, but rather my catch up post. He thought it was pretty surface level (which it was, because I was simply pointing out things I disliked/liked), and I was still catching up at the time. Not sure why you'd expect him to vote me for catching up poorly.

I said your slot, not your catch up post. I'm talking about D1. I don't see why you felt I was talking about your catch up post.

 

[Kantrip]

Underlined, yes that is what I am doing, because I can see Joey/DH connections. You haven't had much connection to DH and your play hasn't really stuck out to me so I feel it is possible for you to be scum.

At the time I was in class. So I just hopped on the biggests wagon I could to help since time was waning. I was busy with school.

Second paragraph: We've already been over that this is a lie. My wagon was not bigger in size or support. Nice try.

I had no thoughts, I was null on him. I was going to leave him to my other head because she said she would read him better. Otherwise from his interactions with me earlier on in the day, I had no opinion of it. Just that he never got around to committing to his 'dislike' of your slot. Any thought on that, Vandy?

This is gross, disgusting.

It's the whole "defend from pressure" and then "ask some sort of question about something irrelevant to make them start talking about something else".

This is not the first time you've done this. You tried to get me to comment on your Dooms case right when I started warming up with my questionning of you, and now you're trying to incriminate me (don't tell me you're asking your question objectively, because I just won't believe it) by asking vandy what he thinks of me not committing to suspicion for his slot.

Scummy.

 

[Kantrip]

I implore EVERYONE to try to muscle their way through Pink Lemonade's play. Look through mine and vanderzant's plays, all individual from each other too, to get a feel for what you all think about these interactions. I promise if you look in the right place you'll see the elephant in the room.

 

[vanderzant]

The intent for PL not choosing a wagon at that time was because he didn't have to, and why take such a risky action unnecessarily? PL chose to get involved ONLY when they HAD to get involved:

Exactly.

Though I could still see PL avoiding the wagons even if he was scum of a different variety (pink, indy).

 

[Kantrip]

Exactly.

Though I could still see PL avoiding the wagons even if he was scum of a different variety (pink, indy).

I could see other varieties of scum as well, but I do think scum with Vinyl/Dark Horse is my top pick.

 

[vanderzant]

I said your slot, not your catch up post. I'm talking about D1. I don't see why you felt I was talking about your catch up post.

Well the only dislike I remember from Kantrip on Day 1 was when I replaced in and was catching up. Unless he had a dislike of Joey, which I don't remember. What other dislike did he have of me on D1?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Frankly, I don't even remember what I think of the slot anymore. Stuff is gross, but so many players in the early game are. For me, bigger targets arised. I really can't remember.

My question to Vandy has merit because of what you said here, Kantrip. You say you didn't have an opinion on Vandy's slot because of other people. That is a very weak excuse to drop suspicion altogether. This also makes it clear that you are trying to twist my statement to vandy as a deflection.

I was giving my opinion I had of you, and I am sure this wouldn't cause Vandy to forget about his pressure on me.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

these questions* (plural)

@Pink Lemonade:

In Moderator Mafia I started tunneling Joey pretty hard off of an incorrect read. In LyLo. So I decided to look at that game to see what he did there and what I got mixed up with. I think you should do the same thing. One thing I noticed was a LOT less questions and defending people, two things that have taken up his play in this game. I still have reservations on giving a solid read on him yet, but at the moment I don't like him. I'll see how he answers my questions and that will matter more to me than the other stuff.

Hear that Joey? How you answer my questions is pivotal to my read on you.

Here it is, Vandy ^

 

[vanderzant]

Well Joey replaced out shortly after that. I don't see how this is incriminating of Kantrip. To me it just looks like he dropped his pressure because Joey replaced out. I mean, why would he want my responses to questions he asked Joey?

Bbl guys, going for a swim

 

[Kantrip]

My question to Vandy has merit because of what you said here, Kantrip. You say you didn't have an opinion on Vandy's slot because of other people. That is a very weak excuse to drop suspicion altogether. This also makes it clear that you are trying to twist my statement to vandy as a deflection.

I was giving my opinion I had of you, and I am sure this wouldn't cause Vandy to forget about his pressure on me.

Nope. Twisting my words.

I said stuff was gross, but so many people in the early game were. Implying that some town people were acting gross too. Gross /= scum in this regard. Just anti-town, and I think Dooms' early behaviour was anti-town and warranting questionning and pressure. Never did I have a legit scum read on his slot, though, as far as I recall.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Keep in mind Joey never replied to his questions nor did he reply to my argument against him. This kept me without having... closure. But I was still wary of his slot, and of you. So of course I wouldn't expect you to answer the questions, but I would expect Kanty to also be keeping an eye on you as well. I don't really remember what Kanty said about you.

Kanty, can you refresh me on what your thoughts were when Joey replaced?

@NINJA: Ok Kantrip. Can you tell me how you felt Joey's play was anti-town and not scummy?

 

[Kantrip]

Okay.

I found Dooms to be asking useless questions (something that I have done as town. useless questions aren't just for scum). I also saw him jumping around the map with defending people (still no real clear-cut scum intent, as he's smart enough not to openly defend scummates in RVS phase and so it was just as likely scum defending town as town defending _____). The things I remembered from Moderator mafia were only partly legit, and I didn't actually remember his behaviour in that game too much. It was different, for sure, but I wasn't pinning him as scum.

So I asked questions to see what his intent was for the questions he was throwing around were as well as giving threatening pressure such as the bolded in the quote you posted. Unfortunately, he replaced out. Vandy's catchup did look shallow to me, but again it wasn't a scum intent thing as much as unhelpful to town.

Make sense?

Could you explain how your mind was working throughout the events described in my #1325, as well?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Kanty:

The way Vinyl reacted in that one scenario when PL asked him to vote is gross. I seriously can't see it being anything BUT SvS. The only reason he COMPLIED with the request WITHOUT acknowledging it is because it came from his scummate.

I asked Vynil to vote because regardless, he was useless. He is a newb, and I have newbs wagon with me because it's one more vote.

Ran ignoring the wagons is of course also of note. The reason for this is that he didn't want to draw an unnecessary connection between himself and his scummate.

I didn't ignore any wagons. I chose you because you had more support. I was fine with going with you because at the time I had class, and had to vote quickly.

Picture this: You're worried about Vinyl's reaction to something incriminating himself, and even possibly incriminating you as well by extension. You instruct Vinyl not to address you whenever possible and you choose to basically ignore him when "deciding" what lynch to join for the Day. You hop on the lynch that is not Vinyl with the reasoning of "it has more support". As planned, Vinyl ignores you and you get by with little to no reasoning for the lynch. For good measure/town points, you make sure to mention you'll hop on the opposite wagon if that's what town wants (if it gets more support). Funny, it already has more support.

I see you say that. Yet, remember I told him that he should follow Me, J, and/or KevinM? Him not saying a thing to me doesn't mean he was following me or not, as he could have been following them as well. From his post I couldn't tell if he was agreeing with my nudge or if he just decided to vote him himself. Him not saying a thing to me didn't stand out to me. Like it's not something I would have naturally asked someone "WHY DIDNT YOU ADDRESS ME MAN? THAT SO SCUMMY."

Then there's the early game distancing. I truly do think the Dark Horse/Pink Lemonade interactions are distancing. I think I already showed this earlier, but I'm open to looking back at it.

I have no idea what you mean here. You seem to be just stating this here just to inflate your connection case. Go over it if you want me to give you my thought process on it.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Okay.

I found Dooms to be asking useless questions (something that I have done as town. useless questions aren't just for scum). I also saw him jumping around the map with defending people (still no real clear-cut scum intent, as he's smart enough not to openly defend scummates in RVS phase and so it was just as likely scum defending town as town defending _____). The things I remembered from Moderator mafia were only partly legit, and I didn't actually remember his behaviour in that game too much. It was different, for sure, but I wasn't pinning him as scum.

So I asked questions to see what his intent was for the questions he was throwing around were as well as giving threatening pressure such as the bolded in the quote you posted. Unfortunately, he replaced out. Vandy's catchup did look shallow to me, but again it wasn't a scum intent thing as much as unhelpful to town.

Underlined, that is part of the scumminess. It's not just him being anti-town. He literally defended DH for a weak and bad reason, against my attack on him which was legitimate. Even you said my attack on DH was legit, so I don't see why you see this as anti-town and not scummy.

Bold, so what would you do about Vandy being so unhelpful then?

 

[Orboknown]

Why are me and RR town? Those are awfully strange town reads.

RR is at least trying to evaluate me and measure what my lynch is worth/if other avenues are open. You are trying to get info out while going against the wagon of osmeone you think isn't scum.

Thinking you'd probably flip town is irrelevant though as your death would still be favorable given the circumstances.

meh I can't argue with that.

So I totally NAILED that test yesterday .

Grats.

1. frozenflame751: I can see town in him, trying to get his scum reads lynched while still playing
2. KevinM I think I had him as town.. then forgot about him till he told OS to vote me.
4. Rajam town due to claim/X1's flip.
5. Rockin town from what I remember.
7. Macman Town..?
10. Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra) don't like. OMGUSing vanz, D1 play was eh, etc.
11. th3kuzinator he's inno'd by rajam. needs to be relevent.
12. J could be scum, but more nullish.;
13. Red Ryu town explained above.
15. Kantrip explained above.
16. Vanderzant he's been town as of late since replacing Joey, who I had a town read on.
17. Overswarm null-scum but cop inno'd so eh.

 

[I am Zim!]

Jdietz43 replaces th3kuzinator​

 

[Jdietz43]

Hey guys. I'll be honest: I stopped following shortly after D1, so I'm going to have some reading to do...

However if Kuz was acting anything in here like he was in the Newbie game this is probably an entirely inactive slot anyways.

 

[Jdietz43]

If anyone wants to scream a de-brief my way I'll listen to what they have to say, otherwise it may be a day or two before I catch up and actually know what I'm talking about.

 

[Jdietz43]

Nvm, I see I'm actually a third string replacement. Don't I feel special lol.

 

[vanderzant]

Hey dietz! We're lynching Orbo toDay because they've been pretty useless through out the game and could be scum. Pink Lemonade is also scum but most people want to lynch Orbo first so we're doing that. We've already killed a bunch of scum so the order isn't necessarily important, but yeah, other than that not much interesting happening atm.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'll be straight: From my perusing D1 (and my hyper-skim) PL is my strongest scum-read. If he dies tomorrow that'd be great.

I don't care one bit about Orbo dying, but I'm not touching his hammer with a 10-foot pole having just replaced in. Someone else who actually believes in it handle that.

Vote: Pink Lemonade

 

[#HBC | J]

V/LA this weekend due to Prom

 

[Kantrip]

RR is at least trying to evaluate me and measure what my lynch is worth/if other avenues are open. You are trying to get info out while going against the wagon of osmeone you think isn't scum.

meh I can't argue with that.

Grats.

1. frozenflame751: I can see town in him, trying to get his scum reads lynched while still playing
2. KevinM I think I had him as town.. then forgot about him till he told OS to vote me.
4. Rajam town due to claim/X1's flip.
5. Rockin town from what I remember.
7. Macman Town..?
10. Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra) don't like. OMGUSing vanz, D1 play was eh, etc.
11. th3kuzinator he's inno'd by rajam. needs to be relevent.
12. J could be scum, but more nullish.;
13. Red Ryu town explained above.
15. Kantrip explained above.
16. Vanderzant he's been town as of late since replacing Joey, who I had a town read on.
17. Overswarm null-scum but cop inno'd so eh.

OMGUSing me and vanz, if that's what you're going to call it. I think calling it OMGUS is a bit extreme for this scenario, but I see what you mean. PL's scumreads are me and vandy, but only after each of us displayed PL suspicion, respectively.

 

[vanderzant]

Kantrip you can go ahead and hammer if you'd like. I don't have much else I want to say. Dietz can catch up during the night, and we can pursue PL more tomorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

Probably for the best.

Vote: Orboknown

 

[I am Zim!]

Deadline set for 5/1 at 11:59 PM! With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

frozenflame751- (0)
KevinM- (0)
Rajam- (0)
Rockin- (0)
Macman- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (1) Vanderzant
Jdietz43- (0)
J- (0)
Red Ryu- (0)
Orboknown- (7) J, Rajam, Rockin, KevinM, Frozenflame751, Overswarm, Kantrip
Kantrip- (0)
Vanderzant- (1) Pink Lemonade
Overswarm- (0)

Not Voting- (4) Orboknown, th3kuzinator, Macman, Red Ruy

A lynch has been reached! It is now twilight until the flip is posted.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Doc still on Rajam WIFOM it if you are ballzy enough.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And then, out of nowhere, the town turned on one of their OWN, and it became clear that...

Orboknown, Mariah Carey, Vanilla Townie, has been lynched!

It is now Night! Deadline is set for 4/30 at 11:59 PM!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And then, the town woke up to TWO OF THEIR OWN BEING DEADED AND STUFF.

Red Ruy, Megan Fox, Town Roleblocker, has been shot in the face!

But I said TWO!

Kantrip, Brad Pitt, Town Doctor, has been poisoned to death!

And with that, Day 4 begins! Deadline set for 5/11 at 11:59 PM! With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

frozenflame751- (0)
KevinM- (0)
Rajam- (0)
Rockin- (0)
Macman- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (0)
Jdietz43- (0)
J- (0)
Vanderzant- (0)
Overswarm- (0)

Not Voting- (10) Overswarm, J, Vanderzant, JDietz43, Macman, Pink Lemonade, Rockin, Rajam, KevinM, frozenflame751

 

[Overswarm]

Rajam ?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Vote: Vanderzant

J like I said I want you to now read the Joey vs us argument, and give thoughts on my case of Joey x DH.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Can we kill OS yet?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[yt]yd1uEvyzCmM[/yt]

 

[#HBC | J]

Hmmmmm well. I don't wanna do anything till I hear from Rajam atm but Rockin is deffo town atm and one of the only ones I trust with like Macman/Rajam. Town reads are dying and leaving me with nulls = graaaaah.

Kind of want to have Vandy vs. PL develop more so I can get more from the Vandy side of things of this argument. PL, can you highlight more about your Vandy read?