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Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Ran|July
these questions* (plural)

@Pink Lemonade:

In Moderator Mafia I started tunneling Joey pretty hard off of an incorrect read. In LyLo. So I decided to look at that game to see what he did there and what I got mixed up with. I think you should do the same thing. One thing I noticed was a LOT less questions and defending people, two things that have taken up his play in this game. I still have reservations on giving a solid read on him yet, but at the moment I don't like him. I'll see how he answers my questions and that will matter more to me than the other stuff.

Hear that Joey? How you answer my questions is pivotal to my read on you. :)
In the bold, I would like you to explain what this meant in reference to his Moderator Mafia play.

Underlined, you stated you didn't like him at the moment, and he never game a response. So I assumed you still didn't like him.
 

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Ran|July
I've basically not been here for this game so catching up from the beginning, and taking into account the flips that have occurred while I read.

Pages 1-10 (which are terrible, so many scummy people, I hated reading this):
Axel's #46 asking about mass claiming for inactive players was trying to get a reaction out of people, which is null for them this early in the game.

Kantrip's response to Axel's post in his #49 does not set well with me; “Why let them claim when we can just policy lynch them?”; how would that in any way help town? He passes it off as joking in his #52 after Axel's Axel’s understandably suspicious reaction, but then throws his weight seriously behind a plan to have the inactives claim which seems purely illogical to me and his reasons for seriously considering it are lackluster.

OS' lottery doesn't set well with me, it makes it look like he is doing something when he is not and frankly it just seems worthless

The town alliance talk is just so strange, I really am unsure of what they thought they would get out of it, or if they considered the dangers of just blindly voting together every day and having it so structured. The best use of a TA imo should be to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, Kantrip and DH both seem like at this point they were willing to put their trust in Axel and just ride with whatever he said. DH's town flip infers that he might have been doing just that...but I'm still not sure what Kantrip truly thought he would gain from a town alliance either

Actually I like Kantrip’s #96. He stopped drinking the kool-aid, started asking questions about what was going on and questioning the merit of the TA.

Overswarm’s #97 is sooo unnecessary. Literally, the point of that post was this “I cannot in good faith force a player into a vulnerable position and, by a biased sample, choose who the Day is focused on, in a blind game that at best is fueled by logical fallacies and inadequate planning.

If we're going to force a claim, I'd do it by random lottery and only with myself being the chooser to determine authenticity. As this is the only acceptable stance at this point for anyone that wants a random lottery, it is not a viable course of action.

In short, it's a bad idea.”

Instead, he added a ton of stuff at the beginning for no apparent reason. It added nothing to what his ultimate point was; I still think he’s just posting with an intent to bolster his posts/fake content.

Axel’s #133 points on us are wrong, but have decent reasoning behind them. I also really like the way he has been provoking reactions wrt to the TA, it seems like he is genuinely scumhunting. Lean town.

OS’s #141 is legit, I like it when people temper more extreme players and put into perspective the fact that people hadn't even posted yet.

RR's first post/real post is calling for a policy lynch on Axel, literally one of the most active players in the game. Not only does it make me question what good it could possibly do but what in the hell kind of policy lynch? Which, he answers here in his #224...which is a terrible terrible reason.

Orbo's response to RR's proposed policy lynch in his #228 might be worse than the proposed policy lynch itself. I don't understand how any reasoning from RR would negate Axel's actions in thread which I don't think conveyed "dumb" at all. Granted, last game I played with Orbo he spent a lot of time sheeping, but I find this an illogical and random concept to sheep hence why it rings scummy for me.

RR's #238: “Joey & Orbo: What of you think of Inferno's vote on me? It comes off as pretty slightly scummy as a reach vote but it's possible he doesn't see where my idea comes from.”

Asking opinion, then giving own opinion at same time that he gives that opinion in order to influence their thoughts, but doesn’t want to make too strong of a statement so qualifies it as “pretty slightly” scummy.

Joey not taking a side on the issue in his #242. Fence-sitting, not good.

RR push on Axel is terrible, terrible, terrible. Followed by his proposal to start...basically another town alliance ;-;

Macman's #262 and #265 bring up subtle points that I really like, and he seems quite astute. Good first impression on him.

Kantrip's vote on Inferno in his #267 is really confident ("obvscum"), despite not seeing any serious pressure from Kantrip on Inferno before this point.

I like Rockin’s #274. Blunt, which is good, and he makes a good point about policy lynches being stupid despite the high number of policy lynches that were suggested early in the game which hurt my head immensely.

RR's #278 I like better than his other posts, he gives some legit reasons for voting Inferno/X-1. Makes me feel slightly better about him after the terrible push on Zen.

X1 goes out of his way to assert to Zen in his #298 that OS has been "clearly unplanned/spontaneous" and infers that this is a town tell for him. This seems suspicious after X1's flip, like he is trying to get Zen to lay off OS.

RR's revoking his gambit could just be a cop out, could be legit, hard to tell. RR's reasons for the gambit he gives in his #326 are about the only reasons he could have for such gambit.

Kafkaesque's first real post is wonderful, one of the few posts so far that I not only agree with, but is actually logical.

Not sure if KevinM posted before his #340, but this is the first post of his I've noticed and I like it...more thoughts/opinions than evidence, but the points he made seems like he's looking for intent and working logically.

Bleh Kantrip's #341. "In short, frozenflame is seriously scum. The time for joking is done. Serious time, starting now." I believe his vote was on Inferno before this, so he's admitting he really wasn't on Inferno for serious reasons which looks like fake pressure. Furthermore, vote on ff screams OMGUS.

Haha actually he follows up his #341 with this: "By the way, saying it's serious time doesn't mean I was joking about X1 being scum. Just noticed his vote on FF which I'm very happy for, but he can still totally be scummates with FF doing some distancing." At this point I really do find Kantrip extremely scummy, so its not suprising I don't buy this, I think he's merely covering his ***.

KevinM's pressure on Kantrip/calling him out on crappy reasoning in his #362 is perfect and really well-reasoned.

Joey and Ran interaction's are long...gonna skip those and trust Ran on reading Joey.

Orbo's #383 shows he's still out in his own little world, really the only thing he does is unvote DH, and doesn't get involved in the actual discussion. Dislike.


Pages 11-20:

Rockin's #404 is very fluffy and doesn't contribute much to the ongoing discussion; his last post was good, this leaves me feeling null on him.

OS' #426 is terrible, shameless self-meta, which I find scummy.

FF's #429 is legit, he's not someone I've played with and I'm having trouble reading him so far, but he's not overly defending himself and at the same time he's questioning X1, Joey, and Kantrip's intent.

RR's #432 catch-up gives me much better feelings about his slot, and I appreciate his early game insights which seem to delve more into intent and question people's actions more than any of his posts had so far this game, so that's a good turn around.

Rockin's #495 gives more opinions, delves into the discussion more than his previous post had. When Rockin presents content, it has been pretty good so far, he just needs to present more of it.

Kantrip's #508 contains quite some backpedaling on his already backpedaled response to Zen about policy lynching/inactive claims. It all comes across scummy.

OS' #519 is the first post from him I actually like. It shows purpose and I can clearly see that he is trying to get a read on someone and delve into their intent. Granted, I don't think KevinM is scummy, but OS' questions are still reasonable.

I like Rajam's #521 because he's really the first person to pressure Orbo, who is scummy but has managed to fly under the radar up until this point.

Kafka's #529 is insightful, and he gives opinions and reasons for pretty much all the the relevant discussion in thread at the time, which I like.

Kantrip's #541 launches into ff but doesn't go after his case on X1 as much as he does his style, which isn't indicative of alignment, and some of this post seems to be coming from angst at ff pushing Kantrip. I like ff's push on both X1 and Kantrip and Kantrip's response to ff is quite weak.

Vandy's #576 is a good first impression, I like the paths he looked into when he replaced in even though I don't completely agree with his conclusions such as liking OS.

Ahhhh Kantrip's #577 is causing me physical pain, it's so scummy. He switches back to X1 for completely arbitrary reasons which really look like he's making sure he's on that wagon if X1 gets lynched, and his accusation that Vandy's catch-up is "too surface level" seems like its solely focused around Vandy's dislike of Kantrip's Inferno pressure.

J's #596 catch-up makes me very happy. Very open about reads, about questioning intent and about tackling current issues/discussions. Reaffirming the town read I was starting to get on Axel early on.

Kantrip's #614 screams that he hopes to be considered town on an X1 scum flip, and I personally don't think X1/Kantrip scum team is improbable, Kantrip's voting pattern on Inferno/X1 was so random and arbitrary, I don't understand his reason for ever voting the slot because I don't feel he ever gave an adequate explanation.

Vandy's #639 is completely focused on how scummy Kantrip is; all legit reasons, all things I very much agree with him on (even though this means disagreeing with my other head I believe).

OS' #723 and #724 do NOT set well with me at all. He completely advocates no cop CC and with that keeping X1 alive. The keeping X1 alive at this point makes sense since he was not confirmed scum/cc'ed yet but still the way he shut down the idea of a cc and I truly don't follow his train of thought here in so vehemently rejecting a cc.

Furthermore, ff's response to OS in his #788 is beautifully articulated, I don't think I could have expressed my discontent with OS' terrible plan to avoid a cc/keep X1 alive any better if I wanted to.


Pages 21-31:

FF v. OS, FF clearly, clearly, very clearly has the better argument about cop claim.

Oh, Macman's #841 is beautiful as well in the sheer rationality he uses in crushing OS' reasoning.

OS offering himself up as cop target for X1 looks suspicious as Macman astutely points out in his #841, and obviously it looks even worse in retrospect.

Kantrip also makes some good points in this discussion too, which is probably the first time I agree with him all game.

I really cannot read through everything dealing with cop cc/x1 lynch, but I read the majority and sided with Macman/FF over OS by a long shot.

One more comment on this who cop cc conversation, I thoroughly agree with Macman's #913 in that the real issue here is that what OS is proposing hurts town. Macman is clearly looking at motivation and is the winner of this debate hands down.

Rajam's cop cc is a relief for outing X1 scum and putting an end to the the co discussion. The only scum read I really agree with him on outside of X1 is Orbo, though.

Orbo's #924 is so useless, he just stops by to vote X1 once he's confirmed scum and to throw weak suspicions on Macman/marshy.

Macman and FF's reaction to Ran's theory of one of marshy and macman being scum for their role on the X1 wagon is valid and I have no problems with the way they addressed us in that argument. As I'm sure is no surprise to anyone, the only person on X1's wagon who I think is scummy (and hasn't already flipped) is *gasp* Kantrip.

Rockin's #1024 is curious. Any reason for the changed opinion on Kantrip? There has to be something identifiable when you make a shift away from a scum read on someone.

Vandy's #1056 is alright, I agree with everything except the switch off Kantrip. Maybe this is because I read the game in a different context where I'm looking retroactively, but I don't understand everyone getting off Kantrip. I still find his behavior scummy no matter X1's flip. He was still okay with a Vinyl and OS lynch though which I agree with.

Still love J's posts and his #1077 gives some excellent reasons for suspecting OS and I like that he reevaluated his Kafka read, and his reasons for suspecting us, while wrong, is logical.

Inno on Kuz is always a good thing and Kafka was a read that was cautiously leaning town to me because I found it hard to get a strong read on them with a lack of consistent posting.

I'm liking the Orbo pressure toDay, that is a route I would gladly follow and I'm glad to see he's not being allowed to fly under the radar anymore.

OS inno is good, although I'm honestly skeptical because his play has annoyed me so much and how he was willing to be investigated by cop earlier in game. Bleh, I'll move him more to null, but I still don't trust him.

@Kantrip: I believe I have provided a plethora of reasons why we suspect you and why I believe you could be scum.


My reads:

Town: Rajam, J, Macman, KevinM
Leaning Town: Kuz, frozenflame, RR
Null: Vandy, Rockin
Null because of innos which complicate my pre-existing scumread: OS
Scum: Orbo, Kantrip

Vandy and Rockin I've had conflicted feelings about. What I read of Joey's posts I didn't like and my other head REALLY didn't like, but Vandy has had good posts for the most part. Still, my other head very much distrusts this slot and that has weight to it. Rockin has had a range of good, bad, and ehh posts which have made it hard to get a strong read on him.
 

Orboknown

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
5,097
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SatShelter
Vote: Orbo

needs pressure, so Orbo let's chat i know you are busy and i will not hold that against you.

But let ante up some stances, OS was under a lot of heat before, you think FF is right that how OS approached that situation was scummy?

Kuz was given pressure as well for the way he handled Chaco? Chaco's slot flipped scum but with multiple factions does J's case still stand?

:phone:
you got lucky english ended early.

From what I remember, I don't like Kantrip off the DH flip from the whole TA, I still think it was a way for the scum team to... nvm just realized vinyl flipped the same color as DH so there wouldn't be room for all three on that scum team.

/pissed at self.

@ the OS thing, I'd have to reread it in full but i remember my initial impression was that it was TvT with both having a different way of looking at it and I know that OS could have been trying to subtly save X1 but I could see both sides of the argument.
@ Kuz- I never saw anything really scummy from that slot when I first read it.
there was a J case on chaco? IDR that. unless you're just throwing a good amount of things for me to consider into one sentence and the grammar got skewed?
 

Orboknown

Smash Hero
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Aug 3, 2011
Messages
5,097
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SatShelter
Don't like PL pressure on dooms, I thought he was pretty town and was just trying to get things done. Xonar even said something about that in pregame.
 

Orboknown

Smash Hero
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Messages
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also what are the odds that the blue maf is finished off and that's why there was only one NK last night? or is it more likely we got another successful doc protect?
 

Orboknown

Smash Hero
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Messages
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SatShelter
we'd need to amount of scummies and mislynches, which no one would know at this point. Why do you want to know this?
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
17 players to start so lets assume 5 scum since 6 > (17/3).

4 dead. 3 scum, 1 town.

So we're sitting on 11 town, 2 more scum.

Assuming we're dealing with a poisoning faction and a killing faction and only townies die from here on out:

D3 (11 v 2) -> D4 (8 v 2) -> D5 (5 v 2) [LYLO]

So it looks like we have worst case 2 mislynches before we're in LYLO. That what you're looking for?
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Yep. Looking at who'd be left I'd imagine we'd have a fairly solid lylo for town unless the dice fall really poorly.
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
3,546
Location
Bronx, New York
Rockin's #1024 is curious. Any reason for the changed opinion on Kantrip? There has to be something identifiable when you make a shift away from a scum read on someone.
Identifiable is right.

I've already spoke out about that subject on D2, but I am no longer interested in lynching Kantrip. You just have to take my word for it.

I was weary of Red Ryu though, but seeing the flips on D3 has made me a bit more comfortable with him living (I still suggest he heavily step up his game :l )

Does the other head feel I'm null as well or is it just you?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
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B.C. Canada
also what are the odds that the blue maf is finished off and that's why there was only one NK last night? or is it more likely we got another successful doc protect?
There were two deaths. One faction poisons, so their kill is delayed. The DH death came from Pink Mafia N1.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
2,031
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@ Kantrip, yes I agree, if this game simply has two scum factions and there is significant chance for cross fire (i.e. at most 1 bulletproof/scum doctor/poison doctor for each opposed faction) then 6 scum would be acceptable.

Even if that is the case though, we still wouldn't technically lose at 5v3 if we assume 6 scum and use my same math, since it would be impossible for there to be 3 same faction scum at this point since we've killed at least 1 from each side.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Of course. In fact, it could give us an extra ML.

Also consider 2 deaths a night for the worst case scenario. I'd wager there's one more member of the blue mafia as they have had a GF and a Goon so far. My bet is on Pink Lemonade for this one. Then there's one or two pink mafia, maybe one and an indy depending on what the pink mafia is. I want to find the last blue member first, which is why I want Pink Lemonade gone. I don't know why we're lynching Orbo except to flush him out before LyLo and because he's been useless, but I don't agree with the lynch.

On that note, @Rajam: I would like you to keep in mind who will likely be around in LyLo when making your cop decisions. I'm not saying anything else, and your targets are still up to you.

@People who want Orbo gone: Which scumteam is he on? Why is he the play?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
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Colorado
For me, Kanty, Orbo is moreso on DH's scum-team.

Pinky said:
Orbo's response to RR's proposed policy lynch in his #228 might be worse than the proposed policy lynch itself. I don't understand how any reasoning from RR would negate Axel's actions in thread which I don't think conveyed "dumb" at all. Granted, last game I played with Orbo he spent a lot of time sheeping, but I find this an illogical and random concept to sheep hence why it rings scummy for me.

Orbo's #383 shows he's still out in his own little world, really the only thing he does is unvote DH, and doesn't get involved in the actual discussion. Dislike.
Here are some decent reasoning against Orbo and could be considered weak distancing with his vote on DH that didn't do anything at all and DH seemed unphased by the vote being on him.

@July half of Pinky: Why no comment on virtually anything on Dark Horse? You pretty much hit everyone but DH through what I've read. I'd figure you would spend time on his slot moreso since you went into a lot of detail when dealing with X1-Inferno.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Colorado
Scratch that connection because Orbo literally could be put with anyone with his play this game.

However, I believe DH moreso than X1-Inferno, could still be there. Flavour speculation is getting to me. :urg:
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
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Messages
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Colorado
Rockin, should I trust Rajam as much as I should trust Kanty?

Vandy, PL doesn't flip mafia, what do? Join me on Orbo for toDay? *Kanty totally should as well and be a bro*

KevinM, you slipping from my mind dude. Care to refresh me a bit?
 

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Ran|July
Identifiable is right.

I've already spoke out about that subject on D2, but I am no longer interested in lynching Kantrip. You just have to take my word for it.

I was weary of Red Ryu though, but seeing the flips on D3 has made me a bit more comfortable with him living (I still suggest he heavily step up his game :l )

Does the other head feel I'm null as well or is it just you?
It's hard to take your word on it when his play makes me want to kill him ;-; I'm alright with him not being the lynch toDay, however, in favor of an Orbo lynch instead.

I'm fine with your read on RR, I actually feel pretty similar in that I didn't like him D1 but flips/better content makes me feel better about him.

Of course. In fact, it could give us an extra ML.

Also consider 2 deaths a night for the worst case scenario. I'd wager there's one more member of the blue mafia as they have had a GF and a Goon so far. My bet is on Pink Lemonade for this one. Then there's one or two pink mafia, maybe one and an indy depending on what the pink mafia is. I want to find the last blue member first, which is why I want Pink Lemonade gone. I don't know why we're lynching Orbo except to flush him out before LyLo and because he's been useless, but I don't agree with the lynch.

On that note, @Rajam: I would like you to keep in mind who will likely be around in LyLo when making your cop decisions. I'm not saying anything else, and your targets are still up to you.

@People who want Orbo gone: Which scumteam is he on? Why is he the play?
I have seen a lot of people with decent reasons to suspect us or who have legitimately pushed us (Joey for example) but I don't remember legitimate suspicions from you until just now. Can you point me to where you've stated suspicions before or if you hadn't, explain your suspicions now.

For me, Kanty, Orbo is moreso on DH's scum-team.



Here are some decent reasoning against Orbo and could be considered weak distancing with his vote on DH that didn't do anything at all and DH seemed unphased by the vote being on him.

@July half of Pinky: Why no comment on virtually anything on Dark Horse? You pretty much hit everyone but DH through what I've read. I'd figure you would spend time on his slot moreso since you went into a lot of detail when dealing with X1-Inferno.
People had obvious, substantial connections with Inferno/X1 when I was reading through. My intention was only to catch up on alive people because this game has enough posts as it is, but X1's posts/connections were intriguing, especially since I've been scum with him before (albeit that was a long time ago). Vinyl and DH didn't stand out to me as much nor did their connections, especially Vinyl who I only remember having one distinct post where he said he was okay with Rajam dying even after Rajam claimed cop. With DH, Zen's TA with him and Kantrip did consciously factor into my town read on Zen/you, and I remember him having weird conversations with us and voting us at one point, but other than that no connections that would help me get reads on people stood out. Might look back on our conversation with him, because iirc he was interested in our read/interactions with Joey.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Jul 26, 2005
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2,031
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@ KevBro: Kuz has an inno result on him so I'm fine with leaving him around for now but I agree he's def not 100% cleared. I just have a really bad feeling OS is a GF/indy even if Rajam is sane and want him gone but no one else seems to want to bite.

Pick orbo or PL soon and I'll join you or you can make my day and help get an OS wagon moving.

@ Macman: Readddddd fassssterrrrrr gragh we need more votes and I want a Broomer power block n stuff

@ OS: Stay lazy if you want but atleast take a stance/vote. You don't have marshy to use as your scapegoat anymore.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Jul 11, 2010
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10,188
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B.C. Canada
@PL: My suspicion on you just started this Day phase from connections to the blue mafia and this should have been quite apparent had you been around for our conversation.

I feel like you're baiting a case out of me. Tell me: Do both heads agree on the scum read on me? Which head has made the past few posts?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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@J:I thought you said PL was the play. I think you said this yesterDay. What changed your mind?

Give me a chance to look at Orbo again and I'll decide if I am fine with being a part of his lynch. For now I'll be honest in saying I'm not feeling it.

@Orbo: Get your reads out there while I look back so I can look forward as well. Thanks.
 

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Ran|July
@PL: My suspicion on you just started this Day phase from connections to the blue mafia and this should have been quite apparent had you been around for our conversation.

I feel like you're baiting a case out of me. Tell me: Do both heads agree on the scum read on me? Which head has made the past few posts?
No, I very clearly understand that you have about two posts toDay about us, one which you think shows a connection between us and Vinyl, and one which you think shows a connection between us and Dark Horse. But that's not good enough considering you barely addressed us before today and you only decided to push us today only after Vandy, who I believe thinks we genuinely scum, pushed us. But you had terrible and weak reasons for being on the Inferno/X1 wagon, and I honestly haven't found any of your scumpicks to be genuinely motivated. So no, I'm not baiting a case out of you, I am pretty obviously asking you for a case on us because I don't trust you and don't find your suspicions genuine.

My other head is not as passionate about a scum read on you but I'd say he has you leaning scum; his top scum read is Vandy. And the past few posts have been from July.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Jul 11, 2010
Messages
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Ah good July, knowing that you're backing this makes me that much more comfortable calling your slot scum.

You know I'm bad at cases as well as I do, so I'm not sure how much you can expect one from me that will actually be convincing without loopholes for you to tear apart.

I'm getting from you that you think I'm part of the Pink mafia, is that correct? You think I was the first to call Inferno scum because I was distancing, and you think my continuing to back the wagon with my vote was weak, am I right? I want to know why you're giving X1 so little credit, then. If his talking to me is distancing than it is pretty damn abysmal. He flat-out appeals to me by defending me from an attack from FF.

I'll make a better case on your slot when you give me one on mine that doesn't leave out the blatantly obvious **** that makes me scum with X1 ridiculous.
 

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
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Messages
5
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Ran|July
Ah good July, knowing that you're backing this makes me that much more comfortable calling your slot scum.

You know I'm bad at cases as well as I do, so I'm not sure how much you can expect one from me that will actually be convincing without loopholes for you to tear apart.

I'm getting from you that you think I'm part of the Pink mafia, is that correct? You think I was the first to call Inferno scum because I was distancing, and you think my continuing to back the wagon with my vote was weak, am I right? I want to know why you're giving X1 so little credit, then. If his talking to me is distancing than it is pretty damn abysmal. He flat-out appeals to me by defending me from an attack from FF.

I'll make a better case on your slot when you give me one on mine that doesn't leave out the blatantly obvious **** that makes me scum with X1 ridiculous.
I think you are scum, period. Your connections point more to pink because of your terrible interactions with X1, but it all connects back to a lack of genuineness in your play in general and especially in your stances thus far.

And I wouldn't say you are bad at cases, I think you are perfectly capable of making cases, and you shouldn't be worried about "loopholes for me to tear apart" if you really think I'm scum.

I'm not giving X1 so little credit, I don't think he would control you; I've been with him as scum before. I think that if you are scum with X1, you were trying to be cautious and make sure you put pressure and supported a lynch if it happened but not bus him too hard. And really you don't want to talk about giving people credit. You give us virtually no credit in that you think we would tell our supposed scummate Vinyl who to vote in thread and would make such blantant connections with Vinyl and DH, and you ask me not to give you any credit by saying that I should know that you can't make cases.

Anyways, I have plenty of reasons why I think you are scum, some of which are because they look like connections with X1, some just because they exhibit scummy behavior (explicitly cautiousness, lack of genuineness, weak and wavering reasoning, backpedaling). I'll quote them here from my catch-up post:

Kantrip's response to Axel's post in his #49 does not set well with me; “Why let them claim when we can just policy lynch them?”; how would that in any way help town? He passes it off as joking in his #52 after Axel's Axel’s understandably suspicious reaction, but then throws his weight seriously behind a plan to have the inactives claim which seems purely illogical to me and his reasons for seriously considering it are lackluster.

Kantrip's vote on Inferno in his #267 is really confident ("obvscum"), despite not seeing any serious pressure from Kantrip on Inferno before this point.

Bleh Kantrip's #341. "In short, frozenflame is seriously scum. The time for joking is done. Serious time, starting now." I believe his vote was on Inferno before this, so he's admitting he really wasn't on Inferno for serious reasons which looks like fake pressure. Furthermore, vote on ff screams OMGUS.

Haha actually he follows up his #341 with this: "By the way, saying it's serious time doesn't mean I was joking about X1 being scum. Just noticed his vote on FF which I'm very happy for, but he can still totally be scummates with FF doing some distancing." At this point I really do find Kantrip extremely scummy, so its not suprising I don't buy this, I think he's merely covering his ***.

Kantrip's #508 contains quite some backpedaling on his already backpedaled response to Zen about policy lynching/inactive claims. It all comes across scummy.

Kantrip's #541 launches into ff but doesn't go after his case on X1 as much as he does his style, which isn't indicative of alignment, and some of this post seems to be coming from angst at ff pushing Kantrip. I like ff's push on both X1 and Kantrip and Kantrip's response to ff is quite weak.

Ahhhh Kantrip's #577 is causing me physical pain, it's so scummy. He switches back to X1 for completely arbitrary reasons which really look like he's making sure he's on that wagon if X1 gets lynched, and his accusation that Vandy's catch-up is "too surface level" seems like its solely focused around Vandy's dislike of Kantrip's Inferno pressure.

Kantrip's #614 screams that he hopes to be considered town on an X1 scum flip, and I personally don't think X1/Kantrip scum team is improbable, Kantrip's voting pattern on Inferno/X1 was so random and arbitrary, I don't understand his reason for ever voting the slot because I don't feel he ever gave an adequate explanation.
 

Pink Lemonade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Ran|July
Ah good July, knowing that you're backing this makes me that much more comfortable calling your slot scum.

You know I'm bad at cases as well as I do, so I'm not sure how much you can expect one from me that will actually be convincing without loopholes for you to tear apart.

I'm getting from you that you think I'm part of the Pink mafia, is that correct? You think I was the first to call Inferno scum because I was distancing, and you think my continuing to back the wagon with my vote was weak, am I right? I want to know why you're giving X1 so little credit, then. If his talking to me is distancing than it is pretty damn abysmal. He flat-out appeals to me by defending me from an attack from FF.

I'll make a better case on your slot when you give me one on mine that doesn't leave out the blatantly obvious **** that makes me scum with X1 ridiculous.
Underlined, so what? I am bad at cases too, but I still try to put out the reasons for why I believe someone is scum. How can you get better at making cases if you don't even try? How can you show us that you really believe your push?

Bolded, I don't like that you are trying to blame us for your inability to even TRY to back up your read on us.

Also Kantrip, you failed to respond to this: #1201
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
If PL is scum, he's not with the blue faction, has to be with the pink. Not with how DH interacted.

Still reading and will report back later.
 
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