Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[#HBC | marshy]

[Red Ryu] Says the votes on X1 are warranted, however he needs to look closer.

look closer at what? why does he need to do this? and why is his negligence to do so worth pointing out?

@kantrip re: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14309320&postcount=650: this is one of the worst posts in this game. where are you going with your followup that is http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14310817&postcount=670? why did you feel the need to engage j regarding his reads? what are you trying to accomplish that is conducive to scumhunting? if you had a gun to your head what would you guess js alignment to be?

then in 673 you...nevermind. i wanna see what frozen has to say to this post

Marshy chooses where my vote goes for today.

awesome. ill have someone for you to vote for soon

 

[#HBC | marshy]

what are you trying to accomplish that is conducive to scumhunting?

EDIT ARE you trying to do something is conducive to scumhunting?

man nothing better than to finish a post and see a scumbag at -1. os go ahead and vote x1 as soon as you see this post

 

[#HBC | J]

Hold on a sec Marshy. Not gonna have a lynch without a claim first.

Unvote

OS can have my spot.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

**** his claim

kevin i gotchu tomo

 

[vanderzant]

What are the main points against me in point form, vandy?

-Your "gambit" on FF was scummy -> Calling him out on OMGUS and being "angry"
-http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14278660&postcount=341
-Drawing a town read on KevM based on a scum connection with FF
-Calling out RR on being "careful" with his responses -> not scummy
-Misconstruing a lot of things FF said in your recent back and forth with him
-Trying to show a Zen/Chaco scum connection based on one post Chaco said

Thanks first off for the post Vandy, now I actually see your train of thought haha.

The bolded pink is actually what I thought something that could have been said towards yourself until now. With my RR read, when I was reading the game with the point of seeing Zen vs. RR, I felt RR's reaction to what had happened felt really sincere to me. He felt actually hurt that a gambit of his to develop a read on Zen turned sour. When looking at the intent of RR's posts, I see it more as him trying to develop reads. He isn't the one to push his reads though but he does put them out there, however as I said, he has dissapated to the background which I don't like which makes him more of a town-lean because I don't like people who fade away when the attention isn't their way.

Fair enough, however I think I'm trying to push my scum picks after catching up, as opposed to RR who has been very much in the background.

So the bottom line for your X1-townish read is that he has posts that you like/like what he is doing and the lack there of a case on him? Fair enough, I don't necessarily agree to lack of a case because people have provided reasoning and there hasn't been a "case" persay on anyone this game but I can get ya.

Not so much a lack of a case on him, but I generally don't agree with the scum implications thrown at him. He's been vocal and put his reads out there which I've been able to follow quite well, and a lot of people have been worse who I'd rather see die.

Reason I asked ya on PL is because your slot was heavily involved with PL so I wanted to know if you agreed with your predecessors thought process or your own was different. Also I know your pain. xD I didn't read Axel's posts in much detail when I was reading.

K.

look closer at what? why does he need to do this? and why is his negligence to do so worth pointing out?

I'm describing what RR was saying in his post. He said "X1 hasn't change my opinion of the slot, but it could need to look closer at his more recent posts." I haven't seen him look at X1's posts closer at all since he said he needed to.

 

[Kantrip]

vandy: Your last two points are untrue. I haven't been trying to misconstrue anything and I feel like FF isn't understanding what I'm asking for at times, and also I did not try to establish that connection at all. J FORCED me to say it when I was not going to even say it at all. I WAS NOT trying to draw that connection AT ALL.

 

[vanderzant]

@J: Pretty sure x1 said he was V/LA so not sure a claim's gonna come.

Still don't agree with this x1 wagon, not with how many bad slots there are. Like really where is the reasoning for this, as far as I'm concerned the only people who've given any solid reasoning are Frozen and possibly Kantrip, and this is just stemming from the bad inferno wagon from around page 5.

@Marshy: Can you give summarise why you want to lynch x1 or at least point out some posts you didn't like?

Actually, would appreciate anyones can answer that if you'd like.

 

[Kantrip]

Also point 1 is untrue. I didn't call him out on OMGUS. I thought he was doing that to me. I later realized I was wrong.

2nd point is a post that started my pressure on FF. I don't call him out on OMGUS, I call him out on being opportunistic. Not scummy, just something to throw at him for pressure that isn't empty.

3 doesn't have scum intent, as the connection was only "They aren't scum together" which is totally valid for me to say.

4 is something I did, yes. Why is it scummy?

 

[Kantrip]

Also what made you say I have good reasoning for being on the X1 wagon?

 

[vanderzant]

vandy: Your last two points are untrue. I haven't been trying to misconstrue anything and I feel like FF isn't understanding what I'm asking for at times, and also I did not try to establish that connection at all. J FORCED me to say it when I was not going to even say it at all. I WAS NOT trying to draw that connection AT ALL.

What are you saying, you don't believe that there was a scummy relation between Zen/RR? Or that you do think there is one but you wouldn't of vocalized it had J not pressured you?

 

[Kantrip]

You mean Zen/Chaco?

I'm saying that I realized my connection point was bad and decided against sharing it as I no longer believed it. I wouldn't have vocalized it had J not pressured me.

 

[#HBC | J]

Since I have time.

Your gut is telling you they are scum because their posts have been null.

wut.

Also because Swords has been posting. So kuz being inactive plus Swords' posts being null=scum. NO. IT EQUALS ****ING NULL.

They are not giving anything that isn't risky, isn't anything besides cautious and safe. Look at their jump onto the Chaco wagon, look at their vote on OS which didn't do anything, they have been posting null stuff because what seems to be on purpose. Do not tell me what I see what is. How does Kuz' inactivity play into what Swords has been doing?

You don't like Sworddancer's choices for who should get vigged. And the scum intent is...? Seriously, not liking who he wants vigged is STILL NULL.

Are you listening to me? It looks like he is keeping more people open to die/be vigged just to leave more things open. Not liking who someone wants vigged is not null. Quit doing this.

This last paragraph says the thing you dislike the most is that they haven't gotten their hands dirty yet. I still have yet to see why this is worse than null, but I guess it's because you have high expectations from the slot, seeing as coming from someone else you wouldn't give it the same attention. There are town reasons, scum reasons, and indy reasons for not getting your hands dirty, but you have yet to give anything that suggests it's one over the other.

You have yet to see but it is what I see and what I consider scummy. My "high expectations" where did that even come from? Their actions are scummy, I have explained but if anything your expectations are flawed for what I should be saying. I have suggested what the intent is and why I feel scum reasoning.

This whole post from you is like this. It's either meta-based, gut-based, a null tell turned into a scum tell, or just not explained.

If you think it's more than possible to flesh this out as you suggest in your latest post, feel free to do so toMorrow when we have time to lynch them. As it stands now, this isn't good enough.

That whole post was not meta-based/gut-based and null-tell into scum tell and it definitely was not "just not explained". Your points against me are bad and not true at all and this is starting to irritate me. Please actually read what I am posting before attempting another one of these attacks on me. As marshy pointed out, your posts directed at me are possibly your worst this game. I'm fine with being attacked for reasons that credible/valid. I will not be continuing this battle against you until some new material is given.

 

[vanderzant]

Also point 1 is untrue. I didn't call him out on OMGUS. I thought he was doing that to me. I later realized I was wrong.

2nd point is a post that started my pressure on FF. I don't call him out on OMGUS, I call him out on being opportunistic. Not scummy, just something to throw at him for pressure that isn't empty.

3 doesn't have scum intent, as the connection was only "They aren't scum together" which is totally valid for me to say.

4 is something I did, yes. Why is it scummy?

@1: You thought he was OMGUS'ing you? Well logically, that means you were accusing him of OMGUSing you. And yeah, that's exactly what I said. This is irrespective of 2nd point which was an OMGUS in itself

@2: I stand by that this was a bad way to go about pressuring someone. Calling him scum for being aggressive. There were better targets at the time and you calling him out was almost completely based on him pressuring you in the first place (aka OMGUS).

@Point 3: You specifically said this:

What do you mean also? I got a town read on KevinM (it was KevinM right?) when he defended FF, because I don't see KevinM outright supporting FF like that as scummates. With Joey, I really don't know what his intent was. All he was doing was pointing out a mistake made in interpretation, and so I can see town intent in his actions. He should have let me respond for the sake of others reading me, but what he did certainly wasn't scummy.

In your mind here you're ignoring the possibility of KevinM scum based on the fact that he isn't scum buddies with FF. Your entire reasoning for this town read is completely based on FF being scum. You didn't give substance for your read on KevinM other than this one point.

@4: Your misconstruing what FF is saying and as a result trying to paint him in a bad light by doing so.

 

[#HBC | J]

Kanty, I didn't force you to think anything. I didn't even force the answer out of you. I questioned you on what made you think of Chaco-Zen connection and then you gave your reasoning. When people started pressuring you on your reasoning because no one seemed to like your connection, you started fending it off as "The Bad J forced my opinion out! It isn't really what I was thinking." which is just a terrible defense.

 

[vanderzant]

EBWOP: Yes I meant Zen/Chaco

I'd go find the quote but I'm a little preoccupied atm. Why though are you vocalising an opinion you thought was bad and didn't necessarily agree with?

 

[Kantrip]

@1: You thought he was OMGUS'ing you? Well logically, that means you were accusing him of OMGUSing you. And yeah, that's exactly what I said. This is irrespective of 2nd point which was an OMGUS in itself

No. I thought he was calling ME out on OMGUSING HIM. I never accused him of OMGUSing me.

@2: I stand by that this was a bad way to go about pressuring someone. Calling him scum for being aggressive. There were better targets at the time and you calling him out was almost completely based on him pressuring you in the first place (aka OMGUS).

Which is why I thought he was calling me out on OMGUS, which I would have ACTUALLY pinned him on. That was my plan. Then later I realized he told me my points were bad and actually felt better about him. I realize you don't like the choice, but I stand by it and don't see how it is scummy.

@Point 3: You specifically said this:



In your mind here you're ignoring the possibility of KevinM scum based on the fact that he isn't scum buddies with FF. Your entire reasoning for this town read is completely based on FF being scum. You didn't give substance for your read on KevinM other than this one point.

This is true actually. But it was so as to keep calling FF scum, as that was what I was doing at the time. That KevinM town read doesn't still apply now that FF isn't a scumread for me anymore.

@4: Your misconstruing what FF is saying and as a result trying to paint him in a bad light by doing so.

But I don't have him as scum anymore....

 

[#HBC | J]

EBWOP: Yes I meant Zen/Chaco

I'd go find the quote but I'm a little preoccupied atm. Why though are you vocalising an opinion you thought was bad and didn't necessarily agree with?

This is a really good question and I second it Kanty.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Vandy:

I have a slight town read on X1, and I'd rather just lynch Kantrip at the least. I would also opt in to a rocking lynch before X1, yet I don't know if we have the time to wagon up on those other two before TomMorow.

If you can, I will be on those other wagons.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Oops. I mean tommorow IRL. lol

 

[#HBC | J]

I'd do a Kanty wagon after his last series of posts directed at me but I highly doubt we will be able to swing another wagon to as close as the X1-12 wagon is at the moment to having a lynch.

@Vandy: I didn't know he was V/LA but thanks for that. However, I still am keeping him at L-2 because I hate the pain of not being able to claim because I know it all too well, all too recently. (Liar Game) He can at least make a post saying what his claim is and I'd still be here to hammer.

 

[Kantrip]

Vinyl replaced Chaco, yes?

I'm not too sure about the Chaco wagon yet. I think if Chaco is scum that makes Axel more likely scum as well. Was there reasoning put out or did people just start throwing votes? It's always easier to draw connections after a lynch if people share reasoning.

What gives you the Vinyl-J connection Kanty? Also there was reasoning for the Vinyl wagon, stated by KevinM twice and also re-given some more by myself. Kafka also gave some reasoning as to why we are on him.

This quote.

Chaco evidently didn't read clearly and just popped in with this comment, assuming people who were in the TA jumped on the idea. My questions would be "why would he assume this" and "why did he choose this to comment on". I feel that as scum, this may be the kind of distancing he'd attempt. There's another possibility I could kind of dig but I'm going to wait a bit on that one and see how things play out, but it involves J being town and someone else being connected with Chaco. It also involves little scum communication.

Either way, Chacoscum seems to have gotten his information about the TA from somewhere other than reading the thread, because no amount of skimming should have given him the impression that people jumped on the idea. I'll look again to verify this.

My reason for thinking this links him to Zen is... more gut than I would like.

Scratch that. I just looked at the post that Chaco quoted of Zen's, and I have reason to believe it was legitimately like the only post he read at that point. You know why? Because Zen used Chaco as the example vote, and Chaco very likely namesearched to the post. Even assuming that people jumped on the TA may not be as strange, since if all he read was the post with his name in it, there was no reference as to who was in on it.

However, that doesn't account for why he called Zen clever and said the people in the TA were on his radar if he only had that one post.

I never really understood what connection you were drawing onto of Chaco-Axel. It seems to just be your last line which says its about gut.

It was the way Chaco said Zen was clever for a plan that Chaco didn't even know anything about. How was Chaco, someone who evidently didn't even know anything CORRECT about the TA, calling Zen clever? It didn't make sense unless Zen had explained it to Chaco in the scum quicktopic. Now I realize the potential for Chaco have namesearched, but I still don't understand why he's calling Zen clever and assuming things about the TA that were untrue.

Has Vinyl even been in here? It would be nice to have him say stuff.

Yeah well the namesearch thing came in and made me say nevermind. There's a reason I told you it was more gut than I'd like and left it there. You forced it out of me, so naturally it's going to seem reachy.

Here's the series of quotes. I had it mixed up how it happened.

-I had a connection
-J asked for it
-I gave it
-I found something that made me scratch it completely
-j asked for further explanation
-I gave a reachy explanation because I had already changed my mind

 

[Kantrip]

@The question, I think my last post answers it. Tell me if it doesn't.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm digging myself in a horrid hole, I'm going to take a break for a bit. I'll be reading but I'm going to refrain myself from posting until I'm not stupid.

 

[vanderzant]

@Kantrip: Ok at your #696. I see what you're saying but I'll have to agree to disagree at this point as it'll just go in circles and I've already made my p.o.v clear.

Wrt Zen/Chaco, reading those quotes I actually understand what you mean, based on you no longer holding the particular "TA/Clever" assumptions thing, but at the end of the 2nd last quote you say "I still don't understand why he's calling Zen clever and assuming things about the TA that were untrue." which suggests you still believe a scum connection exists between Zen/Chaco, but it just doesn't make sense or hold any weight.

^ Ignore that if it doesn't make sense; I'll ask you this question instead. If Chaco flipped scum would you look at Zen/J's slot based on the connection that Chaco was assuming things that he (in your eyes) possibly couldn't have known?

@J/Ran: I agree with the sentiment but considering the activity levels of this game a wagon switch would be unwise so close to deadline. Even though I don't agree with it, I won't try and derail the x1 wagon. Instead I'll keep looking for stuff and re evaluate my position on others during the Night.

A mislynch is almost always better than a No lynch so I'll be around to make sure it goes through.

 

[Kantrip]

Not any more than anyone else. All it would mean is Chaco got info from his scummates.

 

[Overswarm]

Kantrip, what did you learn from your scum play in Tactics?

Serious question, by the way.

 

[Kantrip]

Hm.

Well, I learned that if you're going to appeal to anyone it should be the influential big-shots with a herd of sheep behind them, because if they like you then half of the game will like you. I also learned not to bank on people listening to you, even if you present more logical options than the alternative. I learned that doing crazy things outside your meta can make people think you're town because "oh he wouldn't do that as scum, he would do X". I also reinforced the fact that I'm much better at playing scum than town, and people's opinions of me are almost always inverted to my alignment. I'm sure there's much more but I can't think of it off hand at the moment.

I learned that I love Overswarm set-ups because keeping track of all the shenanigans and finding contradictions among them is something I'm quite adept at compared to other things.

 

[Kantrip]

Oh yeah, I learned that scummies defending townies but doing nothing about the lynch is a thing.

And I think vanderzant is doing it. Real talk.

 

[Kantrip]

That's pending on X1 town though, X1 scum would make vanderzant town IMO.

 

[vanderzant]

Oh yeah, I learned that scummies defending townies but doing nothing about the lynch is a thing.

And I think vanderzant is doing it. Real talk.

Accusing me of not derailing a wagon 24 hours to deadline when we need 9 votes to lynch and so far I have about 2 people on board, and there's probably 10 people who won't read what I've said before deadline.

 

[vanderzant]

That's pending on X1 town though, X1 scum would make vanderzant town IMO.

Do you draw all your reads 100% off of connections? I'm legitimately concerned by this, not even trying to be condescending.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

then in 673 you...nevermind. i wanna see what frozen has to say to this post

I really have nothing to say dude. I already said I'm done dealing with Kantrip for today. He's literally asking me to explain stances/arguments I never made. I literally have no idea how to deal with him. I feel like every time I explain something, he comes up with something I didn't explain and asks me about it, even if I never suggested I had an argument close to whatever he suggests in the first place. It's ****ing ********. He's like asking me to make **** up.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

I agree Vandy. I don't really think we can get 7 people ready and voting. That is why I voted ToDay. We didn't really have much of a flow.

People kind of just sat there and now we have to move accordingly.

This, would make me keep an eye on RR, Marshy, and Macman (Kanty too now that I look at it). I feel they kind of just slapped a slightly scummy reason and didn't really let go. I want to see what they come up with further down the line, because I don't know how else to read them.

I will say things went faster than I thought. ;-; Rather, the deadline felt like it came fast.

Hopefully we won't have as much trouble getting competing wagons up in time ToMmorow.

 

[Kantrip]

Do you draw all your reads 100% off of connections? I'm legitimately concerned by this, not even trying to be condescending.

No I don't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

X1 should claim imo.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

x1 should die imo

 

[Overswarm]

We no longer have enough time for a turn around lynch unless we all agree on someone basically at random. This has worked in the past (see: Nich vs. Circus) so I'm not against it, but I'm willing to hammer when Marshy brings the call. Still no claim from X1-12 leaves little choice.

@Mod: request votecount

Would whoever started the wagon like to reiterate why they want to lynch X1? I'm all fuzzy headed on that one.

 

[X1-12]

Back from V/LA. I take it people want to lynch me eh? Reading atm

 

[X1-12]

But will be keeping an eye on new posts as they come if you need anything desperately

 

[X1-12]

Ooookay this is worse than I thought. I am Diana Ross, Town Cop