Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[Chaco]

It doesn't really have merit without context, though. If you admit it was a mechanical way of looking at things, then why do it like that?

Because it would have been a starting point to look at those who jumped on, however, it holds no merit because I failed to see that Zen invited those two on boards rather than them joining of their own accord. Think of it like this, by itself it's nothing, but with further evidence it's everything. Just like small tells, they catch your eye, but without backup and further reasoning it's merely nothing. Get where I'm coming from?

 

[Dooms]

Joey. Give me your read on OS, first. You forgot to do that.

No read on Overswarm. I have no idea what he was doing with the vote thing, and I currently have no idea where his mind is at. No read at all. I'm trusting others for a read on him simply because I can't gain information on things that I don't know about (such as what the **** overswarm is doing).

Now answer my question.

Doesn't matter the reason why you would have voted him or not. Your "I hope this doesn't count" statement was what I didn't like. If you wanted to, you could have voted him when the game started with the same reasoning. Like "Oh you left town? You might not be town then..." or something like that. I am not saying you should, but you are asking if you could, so there you go. I also want you to reply to what X1 told you to respond to.

Point out where I was asking if I could have voted Chaco. I COULD have, but it would have been stupid to put pressure on someone that was V/LA, especially with an RVS vote, plus there was actual content in the game by the time that the day started, and Chaco hasn't posted. When you think about it, I really couldn't have. If I did, I woulda been stopping pressure until he got back, not really putting pressure on anything else.

Do you not realize how stupid it sounds to put a legit RVS vote on someone that is V/LA, especially considering the fact that there were actual things past RVS going on? Even without my biased opinion against RVS, it still sounds stupid.

@X1 said: Oh. Thought I got to this.

Where did I say I was afraid? I said I didn't want it to count. No fear at all. What does anyone gain from pushing a player that is V/LA in RVS stage? Note that the pressure on said player that is V/LA can very easily be moved when actual content is put into the game, so it would probably move before they got back.

It's simple. Someone would ask about "Why didn't you vote in RVS?" and then, people would have to choose sides and give opinions based on that question. One person can be like "Yes, I agree! That is pretty scummy that you didn't want RVS to progress! vote: scummy guy" Why would that person be scummy? Because scum benefit from the RVS taking a long time. That way scum can hide and let the town destroy itself. But, scum might already know this, and that person could just have been lazy town, and scum would take advantage of that. That, is when you have to read intent. And bam, content that you can scumhunt on.

Take a step back from your computer, rethink everything, and come back.

Now, tell me what in the hell you just said. Like... what?

First off, RVS didn't even happen this game. Axel and Overswarm started us off. My vote was after Overswarm did his thing and after Axel started the alliance. Asking "Why did you not vote in RVS" would be stupid as hell because RVS was before the game even started.

Second, your example. The guy wouldn't be scummy at all. You're acting like RVS is the only thing that is going on in the beginning of the day. With all of the players we have that do gambits and ****, RVS is basically a side thing, and it literally does nothing to progress the game except MAYBE a scummy thing or two if people over react to the whole phase. Not wanting to be involved in something so pointless doesn't make the player scummy, it makes them null until they actually do something.

Third, how are you going to scum hunt based on the intent of choosing to participate in RVS or not? So they chose not to vote in the beginning of the game due to the lack of content. How is that scummy if other players are doing things to actually progress the game? You're not throwing a vote out there that won't change ****... big deal. Explain that for me instead of just spewing this BS.

No, my scumread on you isn't based on you underestimating the RVS. It's based on you not looking into the intent of Axel's alliance, and trying to seem town by being so against it.

So you're calling me scummy for something you could only do because you had meta on him? What about someone that doesn't have any meta on Zen? How are they going to reach the same conclusion as you? Trying to seem town by saying that I don't like alliances and can't see the town intent behind them? How is that townie in any way, shape, or form?

Why don't you stop being hypocritical and consider the possible scum intent behind it? I could call you out on the same thing you're calling me out on very easily.

Yeah, there was a town purpose to it I believe. I feel he wanted to see how weak players would act with POWAH. This was why I asked your thoughts on the alliance thing, but you didn't give any. Even so, I don't think he planned to do anything with the Alliance. Look at how he rejected my friendship of all things! D: < Now then, look at his crappy crappy case on me. I'll comment further on this in response to Kafka (Who is beautiful btw). I don't think he would push such a crap case on me knowing me well. It reminds me of Time Travelers when he gambitted a cop guilty on me. I kind of thought he was scum but he did it to gauge my reaction. He's that kind of guy.

I responded to the second part of this post before the first, but I'll just say it now, great reason to have me as scum for not believing what you do within the intent, especially when you show with wording that you're not even certain of it yourself (with word choice like "I believe", it's obvious that you're not 100% certain)

Where did you get that feel? Because he didn't want to align himself with you?

How are Kantrip and Dark Horse weak? Why did he choose them over me or you, players that are considered weaker than the two above?

Waiting for you to go into the "crappy case" before I comment on it at all.

You asked me why he didn't propose anything to the alliance after the day started, not about the alliance as a whole. Reach some more, please.

What are you even going on about with everything after the sentence talking about Kafka? Do I need to respond to that? It sounds pointless to have it there.

Put simply. I don't think his intent was to mis-use the alliance to gang up on people to mislynch them. Like you said, I feel someone who really intended to use an alliance would have at least tried pick town reads. Also consider that he said that he preferred Marshy, Us, and Rajam. Yet he didn't offer the positions to us, but instead to DH and Kantrip. Why do you think he picked them instead of us?

What? You don't think he intended to use it or misuse it? Where did you get that idea from? Because of the fact that he chose Kantrip and Dark Horse?

I don't know why he chose those two players. Maybe he has meta on them, can read them easily, they're easy to abuse/mislynch, sheep... endless amount of possibilities. Just as much scum reasoning as town.

Underlined, it does say nothing at all. You can't have an opinion on someone from their very first post. Sure you can ask them questions, but it is very odd to expect a read from that person after just getting into the game. DH didn't have an opinion on me, at all. Also notice how I responded to his reasons for his suspicion on me, and he didn't reply to them. What do you think of that?

If he's asking you for a read on Overswarm for the third time, then there is obviously something going on in his head and he obviously wants an answer to his question. The fact that he asked you for a read three times shows that he's not happy with how you're giving reads. I wasn't talking about the first time he asked, btw. Definitely the third.

No. At the time he questioned me, he wasn't part of an alliance. So why didn't he give an opinion then?

Read above. Third time, not first. Also, he questioned you instead of voting, realized you were right at the time, and backed off (from the looks of it). Not scummy, just realization and backing away until later, still showing discontent with the way you're playing.

Yes, he was trying to get information I didn't have. I already told him, that I didn't have a read on OS. OS is a hard person to read, (for me) and that has lead me to even ask X1 for tips on reading him. My questions were not baseless, I feel those questions would have sparked discussion like I have already explained above.

Tell me what you could have gained from asking someone why they voted the mod when it was an obvious joke. Tell me what you could have gained from asking someone why they didn't want a joke vote to be a serious one.

See, you can understand why RR would. I can understand why Zen would do this. I have played with him plenty of times, hydrad with him, and played him plenty of times in the 2 person mafia. (Consider that 2 person mafia really helps with getting to know how a person might play, but I don't bank my knowledge of his play on that only) Yet again, you did not see his intent. Zen would want to form an alliance to gauge people's reactions (Like DH's and Kantrips), and I'm not saying always. I'm saying in this game, that was what it seemed like to me. You are looking at it in a black and white perspective. Some people don't like alliances, some do. I don't really care about them really. I'd just push my suspects and I would direct questions to the alliance if there was one.

Yes, I can understand why RR would, which is why I'm considering it null and not questioning him on it nor looking at the intent behind it. He'd do it as either alignment, so it's pointless to ponder about the mental thought process behind it that you can't prove in any way, shape, or form (although you could use it to back up a town/scum read later if you have a ton of content/evidence that can connect to the mind process used for making said alliance, but that won't come in until day 3-4 or later).

How do you know what Zen wanted to do? Oh wait, you don't. It seems like it to you, but you don't 100% know. You're going to call me scum because I didn't find the same logical conclusion that you did (with all of your experience with him and my 0% experience with him after my brake)?

In conclusion, this is what I got from two posts of you spewing BS (I wrote this earlier in response to the last part of the first post, but copy pasted to here):

You're calling me scum for not seeing something that you only could because you hydra'd with him, played plenty of times with him, and have played 2 person mafia with him, and even then, you're not 100% certain. You're using things that don't matter (meta) to defend a fake stance and to try and prove to other people that I'm scummy.

Yeah, you're probably scum.

 

[Dooms]

You've gotta be joking right?

You're calling me for OMGUS? Like is this real?

So I accuse you first with some actual reasoning. You kneejerk and attack me back directly (which seemed pretty OMGUS to me). Then, when I criticize your method of attack on me, and show that your arguments are awful, you turn that around and say I'm OMGUSing you by criticizing your bad arguments simply because we happen to be attacking each other? What?

That's seriously like one of the worst OMGUS accusations I've ever seen. Of course I'm going to attack you more if I feel like your responses to my initial accusations are scummy/bad as well. Like what, did you just expect me to never share my opinion on any thing else you say regarding us to and just stick to whatever I said initially and ONLY that? Basically, by your definition, me trying to further any case I might have on any player who might be attacking me back for attacking them constitutes OMGUS.

I'm not just discrediting you say indiscriminately. If you said something that wasn't awful and stupid I wouldn't discredit it. But believe it or not, it just so happens that basically everything you've said in response to me so far has been bad/scummy and needs discrediting. You're fundamentally misunderstanding causality here.

MFW He didn't even call you out on OMGUS. He was saying that you used OMGUS against him LOL.

I hope this was you misreading things, because it really makes it look like you're reaching SOOOOOO hard right now.

Yes, I need to catch up on all of the thread that doesn't have to do with Ranmaru. Responding to him was first priority xD.

 

[Rockin]

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm saying that I don't want wagons to go past L-3 until everyone is ready for a lynch. This will stop people like Zen, who are (apparently) known for quick hammering, from ending the day early. We can't look at people that have meta for doing this as town...

(Note: I don't have meta on any player, since I stopped playing for 3.5 months, and have forgotten everything meta-wise)

I believe I understand what you're saying, but nevertheless: if someone tries to quick hammer, they'll be heavily looked lat next day and (possibly) lynched. It'a as simple as that. *shrugs*.

I try not to use meta a lot on people, and just try to look at their actions and why. It saves hassles, questioning, and stress in the long run.

Man it's obv that he wants to be the brownie townie, cuz delfino is a chillax place for you to vaca. (And hopefully you don't have to clean up someone else's ****!)

That means jack. Did you forget that there was an actual MAFIA member in that Paper Mario:1000 yr door was one of those guys? He could be a secret agent for all we know.

I'm watching you, Pinky. D:<

Like seriously, I was trying to gambit reactions but I think I legitimately made Zen feel bad about playing, like **** I feel like a total *******.

Nothing you can do now. Quit sulking and continue to track down Mafia.

Also I really don't see a huge issue with this whole town alliance shindig. Don't know why everyone is freaking out about it. As long as their deliberations are all public, they don't ever grow to constitute the majority of voters, and the TA doesn't sit in the limelight as an object of our focus for ****ing ever, then I don't see why it's so bad..

I didn't like the idea of it because of who was in charge (Axel). The thought of it made me uncomfortable. ><

Does anyone have experience playing with frozenflame? I want someone with experience against him to talk to me about his #346. Specifically the stuff talking to X1. Is this in-character for frozenflame? All the swearing and violent phrasing, I mean. I am NOT trying to infer anything at this time, so don't jump down my throat about this. It just seems like he's talking to X1 with more apprehension than when he's responding to me, which is weird considering atm he thinks I'm more of a moron

I do.

Frozenflame likes to show his fangs at people when they're either very stubborn or make a stupid case against them. Like FF said, he's not angry. Just harsh and direct. He does that with a lot of his games. Normally he's pretty calm and informative when he posts, and just uses the swears to show his irritation. When he's angry at you, you'll know it lol

I do agree with FF that it doesn't really show he's scummy.

Hey Rockin. I would like to know why you second the motion of lynching Axel.

Ever since Shining Force II mafia, I'm currently having a bit of a dislike for his playstle (I mean, going so far as to LIE to town. Wtf?). Nothing personal against him, but I would hate for him to do something similar. Granted I wouldn't policy lynch him (even if I dislike his playstyle, information comes first), but had he kept on going (as well as did some other stuff that were questionable), he'd be one of my picks. >>

os is my strongest town read

I am curious as to why you really think that. LOL

OS confirmed for scum just go look at phoenix wright mafia where I was Mac's strongest scum read.

hahahahaha

I kinda forgot you was scum in that game. That game went through a few replacements lol.

New Mac harder to read because he's normally plagued by inactivity.

I don't think he's that different.

I'm sure when **** gets real, he'll be more active and contributing (not that he's not doing that now mind you lol)

Rockin you viewed yet you didn't say anything? I'll be sure to quote this again:

I tend to just scan posts from time to time and post whenever I'm not completely lazy lol.

Why the hell are people trying to figure out OS so quickly? Much less trying to lynch him? Did he made ya salty in recent games or something as scum? LOL

 

[KevinM]

Unvote
Vote Rockin

All aboard.

 

[Chaco]

Unvote
Vote Rockin

All aboard.

Ew, no. He's like it to much.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Dooms, do you think townies should worry at all about self preservation?

 

[Dooms]

In most cases if not all cases, yes. It saves mis-lynches, and it makes the game easier for town if the people in it care about keeping themselves alive.

 

[Chaco]

Unvote
Vote Rockin

All aboard.

After actually reading his post, I agree with this. Rockin said a whole lot of nothing, except defending OS, ofc.

Unvote; Vote: Rockin

 

[X1-12]

@FF: Just realised a mistake in my last post at you, the paragraph should read like this

@FF: Are you really suggesting that scum players would largely push themselves into spotlight D1, yes I'm not ******** and I know this is a playstyle choice but playstyle is influenced by alignment and my point still stands that making a big scene of yourself is not something scum players usually do. Furthermore I don't care whether its pro-town or not because that fact is completely redundant in determining Zen's alignment from his action.

This is pretty much what I was talking about earlier. Pink here is shoving behaviors down Joey's throat, telling him why a townie "should have said"

How is Ran pushing behaviours down Joey's throat? Joey was at the very least concerned about his vote counting (and at worst scared) and Ran proposes that this is because Joey was scum and worried about appearances. What is wrong here? Why do you think Joey said what he did about the vote counting?

Incorrect. When I was asking the questions, I had already found your lack of any stances to be, at the very least, odd. I had asked you those questions to see how you would respond.

How on earth is this a stance? Looking hard at something then calling it odd achieves literally nothing and is non-contributing, just like I've been calling FF out for doing.

Just because I don't want to throw joke RVS votes out of my *** that won't go anywhere doesn't mean that I'm trying to "hide" anything.

Why don't you want to throw RVS votes out of your ***? You say there was no advantage to doing so, but also no disadvantage so why did you care? You even say in the quotes below that the vote could be moved at all, and that the vote did nothing, but you still show concern (if not fear) about your vote - why?

Where did I say I was afraid? I said I didn't want it to count. No fear at all. What does anyone gain from pushing a player that is V/LA in RVS stage? Note that the pressure on said player that is V/LA can very easily be moved when actual content is put into the game, so it would probably move before they got back.

but it would have been stupid to put pressure on someone that was V/LA, especially with an RVS vote

@Mod: You have me listed voting twice, also can you prod peoples?

Lurkers need to post something useful, notably Rajam, Chaco, RR, marshy and J,

People ask me questions or get back to me already, I want something to do

 

[Overswarm]

After actually reading his post, I agree with this. Rockin said a whole lot of nothing, except defending OS, ofc.

Unvote; Vote: Rockin

I'm curious as to why Rockin left a back door.

He didn't defend me so much as deflect attention from me. There's a difference between the two that has to be noted.

But "I'm curious as to why you think that" due to Macman's strong town read and "Why is everyone so quick to try to figure out OS" can easily coexist with the same mentality, yet they do not obviously fit together.

The "pieces", so to speak, seem more manufactured... at least if Rocking leaving a way for him to backpedal is uncommon.

Does anyone with more Rockin experience have something to say in the matter?

 

[Dooms]

How is Ran pushing behaviours down Joey's throat? Joey was at the very least concerned about his vote counting (and at worst scared) and Ran proposes that this is because Joey was scum and worried about appearances. What is wrong here? Why do you think Joey said what he did about the vote counting?

About what vote counting? The whole L-3 thing that we had for Zen?

Why don't you want to throw RVS votes out of your ***? You say there was no advantage to doing so, but also no disadvantage so why did you care? You even say in the quotes below that the vote could be moved at all, and that the vote did nothing, but you still show concern (if not fear) about your vote - why?

I was under the assumption that I was being attacked due to a joke vote and a mis-informed intent behind it... of course I was concerned. Why shouldn't I be?

 

[Chaco]

I'm curious as to why Rockin left a back door.

He didn't defend me so much as deflect attention from me. There's a difference between the two that has to be noted.

But "I'm curious as to why you think that" due to Macman's strong town read and "Why is everyone so quick to try to figure out OS" can easily coexist with the same mentality, yet they do not obviously fit together.

The "pieces", so to speak, seem more manufactured... at least if Rocking leaving a way for him to backpedal is uncommon.

Does anyone with more Rockin experience have something to say in the matter?

That's what I saw, and that's why I claimed it as more of a defense. Because with mentioning you, he's actually bringing the subject matter back onto you and questioning those who are curious about you. But not adamantly enough to mean anything. It's just like he's throwing it out there, now what I mean? Leaving a ghost of a stance with a question to your pursuers.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@X1 Time to go with a 50/50 shot with your vote. If wrong just lemme know. Also prods have been checked, and everyone's posted within 48 hours.

Deadline set for 4/10 at 11:59 PM!

frozenflame751- (2) X1-12, Kantrip
KevinM- (1) Rajam
X1-12- (4) Red Ruy, Macman, J, Marshy
Rajam- (1) Orboknown
Rockin- (2) KevinM, Chaco
Dark Horse- (0)
Macman- (0)
marshy- (0)
Chaco- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (1) Dooms
Kafkaesque- (0)
J- (1) Overswarm
Red Ryu- (1) Dark Horse
Orboknown- (0)
Kantrip- (1) Frozenflame
Dooms- (1) Pink Lemonade
Overswarm- (1) Kafkaesque

Not Voting- (1) Rockin

 

[Rockin]

After actually reading his post, I agree with this. Rockin said a whole lot of nothing, except defending OS, ofc.

Unvote; Vote: Rockin

I defended him? When?

I was merely just asking a simple question that seems to come out whenever I try to catch up on posts. It's just something I noticed that doesn't happen in previous games I've been with OS.

As far as me 'not saying nothing,' There isn't really much to say atm. Most issues that happen before the game officially started is moot due to Axel (Zen) leaving the game. As the game officially starts, all I'm seeing is quick throws at people being scummy and votes without much reasoning. It's too early for me to really see a motive behind it, but I'm seeing mostly dumb and null readings...=/

 

[Dooms]

Why don't you want to throw RVS votes out of your ***? You say there was no advantage to doing so, but also no disadvantage so why did you care?

Forgot to respond to this part specifically.

I don't want to throw RVS votes out of my *** because there is no purpose to do so. It won't get me anywhere and it just doesn't really change the gameplay at all, especially when I'm playing with people that do things like what Axel and Overswarm did early game. Even if there is no disadvantage, there is no advantage. I have no reason to, therefore I won't.

 

[Kantrip]

MFW He didn't even call you out on OMGUS. He was saying that you used OMGUS against him LOL.

I hope this was you misreading things, because it really makes it look like you're reaching SOOOOOO hard right now.

Yes, I need to catch up on all of the thread that doesn't have to do with Ranmaru. Responding to him was first priority xD.

This is another case of when you should have let me respond.

But yeah, Joey is right. I was not calling you on OMGUS, YOU called OMGUS on ME.

Theatre ran late as **** and I have to get to homework after eating dinner, so I'm not going to be posting the promised content today.

FF I want a new response from you now that I've clarified the OMGUS thing. Reread what I said with it in mind please.

 

[X1-12]

About what vote counting? The whole L-3 thing that we had for Zen?

No, your vote on chaco.. The thing I've been attacking you about the whole time

I was under the assumption that I was being attacked due to a joke vote and a mis-informed intent behind it... of course I was concerned. Why shouldn't I be?

Why does this matter? You voted knowing it was RVS and, as town, what you did should have been for a legit reason, regardless of whether it helped town you should know you did it for a reason. But when attacked you were worried about your past action of voting, why? As town you should know that what you did was nothing to be called scummy for and thus not be concerned about people attacking you because you have a legit reason for what you did rather than trying to undo your action, as though you were aware that you were guilty of something

 

[Chaco]

I defended him? When?

I was merely just asking a simple question that seems to come out whenever I try to catch up on posts. It's just something I noticed that doesn't happen in previous games I've been with OS.

As far as me 'not saying nothing,' There isn't really much to say atm. Most issues that happen before the game officially started is moot due to Axel (Zen) leaving the game. As the game officially starts, all I'm seeing is quick throws at people being scummy and votes without much reasoning. It's too early for me to really see a motive behind it, but I'm seeing mostly dumb and null readings...=/

Well, if you're noticing it, question the specifics on it, maybe? Because, just throwing a blanket question will do absolutely no good and will leave you with nothing to say. I doubt anyone would even take that question seriously, like I said, it feels like there's nothing behind it.

 

[Dooms]

No, your vote on chaco.. The thing I've been attacking you about the whole time

Why does this matter? You voted knowing it was RVS and, as town, what you did should have been for a legit reason, regardless of whether it helped town you should know you did it for a reason. But when attacked you were worried about your past action of voting, why? As town you should know that what you did was nothing to be called scummy for and thus not be concerned about people attacking you because you have a legit reason for what you did rather than trying to undo your action, as though you were aware that you were guilty of something

Oh...

LOL I completely read what you were saying wrong.

I wasn't worried about it counting or not at the time. I didn't want it to count because it was a ****ty RVS vote and I knew that I wouldn't get anything from it, plus I'm personally against starting a game before everyone is confirmed (which is why you didn't see any serious posts from me until after the game really started, and why I didn't really push on anything before the game starteD).

Sorry for misunderstanding what you were saying.

 

[Dooms]

Well, if you're noticing it, question the specifics on it, maybe? Because, just throwing a blanket question will do absolutely no good and will leave you with nothing to say. I doubt anyone would even take that question seriously, like I said, it feels like there's nothing behind it.

I like this. It makes me sad that I didn't notice it at all :/.

Also, can anyone here seriously read OS? (Serious question)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I was fine with deserters not rejoining because it's a group no one should want to rejoin anyways.

this is stupid too

its not even a real answer

kantrip, I would like a response to this... can you give an not-nonsensical answer to the question I asked you? You're the one that suggested adding the clause that anyone who disagreed with the TA can't rejoin the TA. That means you must have had an actual reason for suggesting it, right?

 

[Kantrip]

kantrip, I would like a response to this... can you give an not-nonsensical answer to the question I asked you? You're the one that suggested adding the clause that anyone who disagreed with the TA can't rejoin the TA. That means you must have had an actual reason for suggesting it, right?

I wasn't the one who came up with it. I was the one who proposed "people can leave at any time", and AXEL added the "they can't rejoin" clause.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ah, nvm then

 

[Rockin]

Well, if you're noticing it, question the specifics on it, maybe? Because, just throwing a blanket question will do absolutely no good and will leave you with nothing to say. I doubt anyone would even take that question seriously, like I said, it feels like there's nothing behind it.

I would, but again I'm seeing more of 'dumb' then anything else atm (then again, in Shining force II, I considered DH dumb town and he turned up scum on D2).

I'm giving it time to see how things progress for the moment. Right now, there's nothing really of importance for me to really speak out (unless Pink Lemonade has more questions or if you or anyone else has something specific to ask me).

 

[Overswarm]

Also, can anyone here seriously read OS? (Serious question)

No, not really. Red Ryu is the closest to being someone who can read me.

When I'm scum, I have a plan. Ask anyone who has ever been my scummate, ever, and it's always about a plan. And the plan nearly always works. I freely give victories to town in order to boost the status of my allies, often correctly picking on D1 what day I will die and using that to my advantage. When my scummate pushes on me on D1, keeps it up on D2, and then D3 he finally gets the lynch to go through and I flip scum? He'll probably go through to end game, don't you think?

Of course, my other teammate will have defended me along with a few others I've primed. That's to keep the selection game going. If three people have been defending me since D1 and I'm scum, unless they had a convincing reason it's probably that at least one of them is scum too, right? But that's a lot of lynches. One or two Day phases go by and they get the 2nd scum but suddenly it's lylo and my teammate is in the "confirmed townie" slot, despite the complete lack of presence for the past two days.

Things like that.

It's always a different plan, and I'm not always the starring role. I play to my teammate's strengths and no one makes a move without a reason.

http://quicktopic.com/45/H/LpQJp5Tttq79

http://quicktopic.com/44/H/JCMEJeL82Lg

There's two mafia quick topics from my previous games if you want to study; I also give a post saying "how I beat all of you" after any scum game I win explaining my plans and thought processes so I have to switch it up in the future. Plus it's funny.


Want my tactical assessment of this game if I were scum?

It's plagued with inactive players and strong players alike, many of them happen to be both.

A weak scum player would simply attempt to waste a day or two killing inactives; it wouldn't be hard. Time your push right or just keep conversations going around in circles and there will be more than enough players with "no content" on D1 in a normal game, let alone this one. Even better for scum, players already came into this game with pre-made "cliques", years in the making.

That is inefficient. Instead, I'd avoid killing inactives via lynch. It's a good policy for scum, and it's a good policy for town.

My scummates and I would take a three-pronged approach, creating three different probable lynch scenarios but sticking to none of them. This game is a snake; that is, the lynch will quickly and rapidly change from one target to another with most of the players switching to that lynch doing so for "pressure" and reads on other players doing the same. Very old school DGames, very different from the new slow and steady "every vote counts" new games. This will create a dichotomous relationship between the old and the new if scum cultivates it correctly.

While town won't remember the snake pushes that are rapid and shallow, they will remember the reasoning. Hunches will change and be replaced, but actual attacks will stick. My scummates would make their attacks very prominent, but not strong enough to seal a lynch directly. This gives the highest probability of getting an inactive lynch on D1 while setting up for multiple mislynches throughout the game. I wouldn't have my scum team attack each other at all; distancing is key in this setup. There's enough players you can avoid to where distancing can't really exist. If I make a push on Rockin but not KevinM, it doesn't mean KevinM isn't scum just because he didn't mention me either; others would feel the same way.

I'd want to avoid vindictive players. FrozenFlame would be avoided at all costs; better to kill via NKill. I'd fit the bill if I wasn't scum in a normal game, but enough people here don't know how my brain works so it might be easier to swing a lynch my direction than normal. Plus, I generally allow my lynch when I'm town in early phases if I think it'll help later in the game.

It'd be pretty easy to get to D4 on that strategy alone. It's a strong town and an inactive town. Just sitting back and setting up for the end game is the most optimal route. Don't give yourself any rope to hang yourself on and you'll live, simple as that. By the time town is done eating itself alive, the entire scum team will be in charge of the game and it'll just be a waiting game with a strategic bus at the right time.


That's part of the reason I started the game off as I did. Being loud and visible forces scum's hand; it becomes incredibly apparent who remains silent, who attacks, who thinks what, and who is less interested in figuring things out and more interested in appearing to figure things out.

You can figure out a lot about me if you read those old game threads/QTs if you've got the time.



Now that I've helped you a bit, I again answer: no, no one here is really going to be able to read me. Macman assumes my actions are town because of their apparent nature and the lack of structure; he's correct, but there is definite structure in my actions and they are, as always, deliberate. Being right for the wrong reasons does not confidence make.


Rockin will always give himself more rope to hang himself with as town. If he's scum, he'll probably unsuccessfully attempt to stall. The real question is if he was scum, would his teammates leave him out to dry, or would they cut it off at the pass? I can't really say.

It's early enough in D1 to where a counter lynch would be viable to save Rockin scum should this all turn into a serious wagon on him. Unfortunately for them the only possible suspect at hte moment for that is KevinM and Myself, neither of which are particularly easy to quick lynch. Especially KevinM given this roster. I doubt a counter lynch attempt will occur, so any defense of Rockin will have to come after actual attacks are made; it is likely scum would wait for Chaco to continue questioning and then try to pick apart a few key aspects to his argument in an attempt to stall or redirect.

So, I wait.

 

[Chaco]

I would, but again I'm seeing more of 'dumb' then anything else atm (then again, in Shining force II, I considered DH dumb town and he turned up scum on D2).

I'm giving it time to see how things progress for the moment. Right now, there's nothing really of importance for me to really speak out (unless Pink Lemonade has more questions or if you or anyone else has something specific to ask me).

Tell me what the dumb is that you are seeing. I've ignored the Dooms walls, so if you mean those, by gods I agree.

@OS: Holy mother of wall text.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Joey will get to you.

Ew, no. He's like it to much.

After actually reading his post, I agree with this. Rockin said a whole lot of nothing, except defending OS, ofc.

Unvote; Vote: Rockin

Ok Chaco. Why did you say "Ew no" if you didn't even read the post yet?

Also what was your meaning in saying "He's like it to much."?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@FF: Are you really suggesting that scum players would largely push themselves into spotlight D1, yes I'm not ******** and I know this is a playstyle choice but playstyle is influenced by alignment and my point still stands that making a big scene of yourself is not something scum players usually do. Furthermore I don't care whether its pro-town or not because that fact is completely redundant in determining Zen's alignment from his action.

No, I'm not suggesting that scum players would push themselves into the limelight D1 typically. Just because I said that scum won't necessarily typically AVOID the spotlight on D1 doesn't necessitate that they must then typical SEEK the spotlight. That's some assbackward logic right there. Sure, playstyle can be influenced by alignment. But if you're going to make an argument that "Player X was super vocal early D1 therefore they are probably Y alignment" you'd better have some damn good specific analysis regarding that particular player's inclinations as different alignments, because without other corroborating evidence that suggests that that person's alignment is largely affecting their play in a given way, I have no reason to believe anything you say is anywhere close to accurate or worth listening to if you're just throwing a bunch of general, baseless, meta conjecture out there.

Do you really think alignment doesn't inform playstyle? Also read what I said to Kevin: "How are you meant to read someone's intent if you don't think about it from their point of view? That's the only way to try and get an idea of why they posted it. Yes OS was anti-town because he posted pages about appeal to x: but to call OS scummy for that reason imo is stupid when you actually think about his intent and realise that OS just likes being a smart-*** and showing off"

Again, of course alignment can inform playstyle. Problem is, playstyle has many elements to it, and some elements of a players playstyle can be affect more by alignment than others. Without some distinct reasoning to think otherwise, I don't feel like a person being particularly loud in the early game is something that would largely be influence by their alignment.

Sure, you want to look for intent, but again, you didn't provide even a grain of analysis that addresses SPECIFICALLY why Axel would not have the intent of accomplishing something as scum by being vocal in the early game. Literally, all that was said is "lol k well Axel is too loud too early to be scum he's probs town kthx believe me plz". Why the **** would I find that anywhere close to compelling? You're not providing any of the type of analysis you're claiming is what we should be looking for and using in the first place!

All you have come out with about OS is the following:Yes, OS is playing different from his usual behaviour. What does this actually mean in terms of his alignment? I've already asked you this and you've given me nothing. The above is just an objective analysis of OS without actually even any attempt at inferring something from this to discern his alignment.

Idk what it means yet it terms of his intent as a player. I'm just noting the nature of his behavior early on. It's too early for me to have any definitive conclusion on what he intended to accomplish by his current playstyle, or how that suggests he is X or Y alignment. I just don't know. Why is it bad for me however, to explain a more nuanced understanding of the nature of his "I'll give my vote to X player unless I decide not to" stance?

MFW He didn't even call you out on OMGUS. He was saying that you used OMGUS against him LOL.

I hope this was you misreading things, because it really makes it look like you're reaching SOOOOOO hard right now.

This is another case of when you should have let me respond.

But yeah, Joey is right. I was not calling you on OMGUS, YOU called OMGUS on ME.

FF I want a new response from you now that I've clarified the OMGUS thing. Reread what I said with it in mind please.

I'm seriously confused about what you two are trying to day.

Here's what happened:

I voted for Kantrip for making some pretty bad statements.

He IMMEDIATELY attacks me back and votes me. Classic OMGUS.

I defend myself and discredit his arguments against me. He tries to say that I'm just OMGUSing him back, and says that I'm trying to make it seem like I wasn't OMGUSing him just because "I attacked him first". I explain why me attacking him back IS NOT OMGUS and that I attacked him back because his attacks on me were completely ********, not just because I am trying to discredit everything he is saying, like he implied.

So yes, I still stand by my stance that your initial reaction to my attack on you was OMGUS. You also implicitly argued that by discrediting your arguments, I was guilty of OMGUS back on you as well, which is ******** reasoning and isn't true.

I don't see how any of that can be interpreted as me "reaching" or anything similar at all. Idk what language is being misinterpreted here but I'm pretty sure we're not on the same page based on the way you two are reacting.

I'd want to avoid vindictive players. FrozenFlame would be avoided at all costs; better to kill via NKill.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I'm seriously confused about what you two are trying to say*

^^^ That's how the sentence after the Kantrip/Joey quotes should read

 

[Pink Lemonade]

This is another case of when you should have let me respond.

But yeah, Joey is right. I was not calling you on OMGUS, YOU called OMGUS on ME.

Theatre ran late as **** and I have to get to homework after eating dinner, so I'm not going to be posting the promised content today.

FF I want a new response from you now that I've clarified the OMGUS thing. Reread what I said with it in mind please.

Kantrip, does this also set Joey in your scumdar? Why or why not?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So I decided to actually read the earlier parts of this game before D1 started, wasn't that bad actually.

So how Axel proposed the alliance, nullish sort of town lean, I could see motivation for both sides and even with making them I can say personally it's not a tell for either, maybe more leaning towards town due to how it can force people's hands but still can be played around with other methods. They still need to discuss everything in the open which seems to be what Axel said would happen, more so gives me the town lean with this group.

Kantrip's opposition to the joining the majority seems odd to me, he still can put forth an idea but he seems objected to joining in a group mentality and sheeping sort of way. Sheeping is not bad for even good players to if you are good with it and know how to tell people banding together vs blending in and when you should sheep vs opposing an idea. You still keep free will here, but it's not like your forced to servitude of others opinions unless it is a majority.

OS's #128 covers this pretty well. Though I disagree with it being lose lose if you set up a clear goal and motive as town when doing it.

I dislike the punishment he proposed for not going with it, I didn't force this on people in the ones I made. But it could be strong arming and really isn't a tell, I tried to buddy manipulate a little with my group so I coul get players that were less experienced than me to vote where I wanted them to vote for town. Didn't work too well when they got more independent, lol.

The accusations that came up after, didn't see many if at all that had true merit, it was too early to claim a lot of the things people were doing, even more so with the lack of people in the thread whom hadn't posted yet. I really don't like what happens and it;s there where I see the Armageddon button happening.

Axel didn't give me a scum tell from it actually, Kantrip was the one who made it off putting during it if anything.

I don't like how some people treated the alliance during the posts later like an instant scum tell, looking at Marshy and Chaco here, where as a lot of people, like OS, took it mostly as a null though he thought the action was useless as a whole. I see hindsight for analysis from him were as a lot of people kinda just put it under the rug as a simple black an white issue.

So for everyone but Kantrip, don't see scum intent from trying to form it. People outside commenting on it, a few people stood out and either lazy or scummy need to figure out which later.

~

So the big voted right now.

X1 - This is warranted Inferno's earlier posts had some repeated questions I couldn't see where he was going with it or his suspicion. Even then, looking at his vote on Joey, which is really bad btw, X1 hasn't change my opinion of the slot, but it could need to look closer at his more recent posts.

Joey - This seems unwarrented to me, I don't see what he has done this game that warrants votes at this time. Even more so over other posters in this game. Someone should make a case or something or I on;t get this one.

Frozenflame - Seems like a reach from the voters on him, I dislike this wagon.

Rockin - There is merit to this one, when I explain the whole what a hows it do it stuff from the Axel reactions I saw his posts to it and actions around it to be rather, "too perfect" in a sense.

I don't like Chaco or Marshy but those are less trustworthy since I could chalk it up to being inactive/not posting fully in a sense.

My vote stays and I gotta get up for class in 5 hrs after I sleep lol. Later.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also @mod: Inferno's vote should not be on me anymore since he was replaced.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Currently knocking out Joey's post. But in the meantime...

Let's see....

Hardest Probably Marshy, FF, Inactives

Easiest probably you, joey, axel, RR, Kantrip.

Everyone else is between those two.

Ok thank you. Two more questions, and that's it.

1. How did your last question to me (and my answer in response) help you with finding scum?
2. What are your opinions on events/people in the game not involving me/joey/kantrip? (More than one please)

 

[Dooms]

I'm seriously confused about what you two are trying to day.

Here's what happened:

I voted for Kantrip for making some pretty bad statements.

He IMMEDIATELY attacks me back and votes me. Classic OMGUS.

I defend myself and discredit his arguments against me. He tries to say that I'm just OMGUSing him back, and says that I'm trying to make it seem like I wasn't OMGUSing him just because "I attacked him first". I explain why me attacking him back IS NOT OMGUS and that I attacked him back because his attacks on me were completely ********, not just because I am trying to discredit everything he is saying, like he implied.

So yes, I still stand by my stance that your initial reaction to my attack on you was OMGUS. You also implicitly argued that by discrediting your arguments, I was guilty of OMGUS back on you as well, which is ******** reasoning and isn't true.

I don't see how any of that can be interpreted as me "reaching" or anything similar at all. Idk what language is being misinterpreted here but I'm pretty sure we're not on the same page based on the way you two are reacting.

Where did he say you were OMGUS'ing him?

In the post I quoted, he was saying that you accused him of OMGUS, not that you were OMGUS'ing him. Completely different things.

(Sorry Kantrip, but I already responded once, so I might as well make it clear, right?)

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Rajam viewed again and didn't post anything...

Don't like. Still knocking joey's post out. *Sweats*

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

How is Ran pushing behaviours down Joey's throat? Joey was at the very least concerned about his vote counting (and at worst scared) and Ran proposes that this is because Joey was scum and worried about appearances. What is wrong here? Why do you think Joey said what he did about the vote counting?

What difference would the vote have made? The intent of the vote would still be the same. I don't see how that results in a scumtell.*

How on earth is this a stance? Looking hard at something then calling it odd achieves literally nothing and is non-contributing, just like I've been calling FF out for doing.

So I asked them those questions to see if I could strengthen my read.

1. How did your last question to me (and my answer in response) help you with finding scum?

*

That question was more out of curiosity, as you had been asking "how do you read X?" several times. It was mostly to see if you were to have used that to breeze by, and to see who you could have a read on.

The Rockin "wagon" is bad. The votes after KevinM vote for no reason say that he has done nothing, which really isn't the case. Wouldn't look at OS for it though, as he didn't jump on it.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Really long reply to Joey ;-; Sorry loool

@Joey:

Ok, who exactly are you trusting with the OS read? Also, did you ask about reads on OS before your #402?

Answer:

Creating a town alliance when there are no reads out there is completely pointless. If they're scum, they manipulate you early. If they're town, then they don't know your role/alignment, so it shows that they're easily manipulated, making it easier for the scum. There is literally no legit town purpose behind it. Plus, I stopped considering the townie aspects to it when he reacted so poorly after Kantrip/Dark Horse broke it off.

Underlined. I felt that it would be null (From your pov). You would have known that if you looked at his actions (the ones I asked for you to comment on but didn't) That was what I was saying.

See, this is where you are wrong. You even state that people DO gambit for town's benefit, right? You tell me to look at the scum intent, so ok. Here I go: Scum intent is: To confuse the town, to abuse power. That is the only scum intent I can think of. For example, Zen achieving people like me getting a town read on him, COULD had been his scum intent if he were scum. Yet, I feel he had done so much that I'm ok with keeping him at town lean for now. Now of course, notice how J hasn't really posted yet at all. So, if he were scum, his intent could have been to get town cred early on, and so he can fade away to stay under the radar. If J doesn't do a thing later on that would line up with my town read now, then I'd have reason to doubt his actions then. Of course, after posting this, and somehow J has a blurt of activity, I'd keep an eye on him.

Now let's go over this line: "If they're scum, they manipulate you early. If they're town, then they don't know your role/alignment, so it shows that they're easily manipulated, making it easier for scum."

See, this would make sense for me if it seemed like Zen was serious about the TA. I can see where you are coming from. But that line, turns to null when the intent isn't to VOTE people off with POWER, and when it actually is to gauge those he picked (and outsiders). Basically your reason doesn't apply to the situation that you failed to notice. Seeing as I don't think Zen was trying to manipulate people, but to create and gauge reactions, I wouldn't think your scumscenario would fit. Seeing as Zen isn't a dumbtownie, I wouldn't think the townie scenario would fit either. (If he were serious about an alliance I feel he would choose others) Again, if Zen has doubts about someone, he will push and prod that person to get an accurate read on them.

Point out where I was asking if I could have voted Chaco. I COULD have, but it would have been stupid to put pressure on someone that was V/LA, especially with an RVS vote, plus there was actual content in the game by the time that the day started, and Chaco hasn't posted. When you think about it, I really couldn't have. If I did, I woulda been stopping pressure until he got back, not really putting pressure on anything else.

Do you not realize how stupid it sounds to put a legit RVS vote on someone that is V/LA, especially considering the fact that there were actual things past RVS going on? Even without my biased opinion against RVS, it still sounds stupid.

@X1 said: Oh. Thought I got to this.

Where did I say I was afraid? I said I didn't want it to count. No fear at all. What does anyone gain from pushing a player that is V/LA in RVS stage? Note that the pressure on said player that is V/LA can very easily be moved when actual content is put into the game, so it would probably move before they got back.

That isn’t the point. (You probably didn’t) The point was that I was trying to make that you COULD have done that, not should have in that scenario. I think you and I know that RVS votes don’t really put pressure on people, so no, I don’t think it would have been stupid to put it down at that time. (But it wouldn’t have been beneficial, that is true) But, it makes sense not to RVS vote and go srs in our situation. Yet, this isn’t my problem with you. My problem was your comment for your vote counting or not. It counting wouldn’t matter. Like you said, it wouldn’t have pressured him or do anything, and no one would have suspected you for it, so there was no need to say that. Even so, I like this part of your response.

Take a step back from your computer, rethink everything, and come back.

Now, tell me what in the hell you just said. Like... what?

First off, RVS didn't even happen this game. Axel and Overswarm started us off. My vote was after Overswarm did his thing and after Axel started the alliance. Asking "Why did you not vote in RVS" would be stupid as hell because RVS was before the game even started.

Second, your example. The guy wouldn't be scummy at all. You're acting like RVS is the only thing that is going on in the beginning of the day. With all of the players we have that do gambits and ****, RVS is basically a side thing, and it literally does nothing to progress the game except MAYBE a scummy thing or two if people over react to the whole phase. Not wanting to be involved in something so pointless doesn't make the player scummy, it makes them null until they actually do something.

Third, how are you going to scum hunt based on the intent of choosing to participate in RVS or not? So they chose not to vote in the beginning of the game due to the lack of content. How is that scummy if other players are doing things to actually progress the game? You're not throwing a vote out there that won't change ****... big deal. Explain that for me instead of just spewing this BS.

My example was in games where the pre-game didn’t happen. Usually rvs starts that way, and that’s how it would progress. My response to you was showing how my earlier questions in pre-game could have sparked discussion. These two are related. (When you accused of my questions of not going anywhere, I said they could go somewhere, you said that was stupid, and I showed you how it would have went) I sort of don’t like how that went, Joey. [Refer to the parathensis for an idea] It feels like you are arguing just to argue with me (to find me scummy) without even considering my explanations.

Underlined, this is how I play. With RVS in mind. I mean, I always act as if we are in rvs, without gambits, and start from there to get my own reads/evaluations. Why would I let Axel’s and OS’s gambits do that for me? Meaning, I wouldn’t rely on their gambits to get us started. I would ask simple questions, that could garner discussion later on. That was what I was doing, and I was asking about the TA and OS’s randomizer thing too.

Yes, it does make that player scummy in rvs. Think of it like this. RVS is just the start of the game, so it’s in towns best interest to get out of rvs. To get out of it, you need to get serious and when people are being suspected and wagoned, that’s when you are out of it. You can’t get out of RVS without people contributing opinions and suspicions on people. The longer rvs goes, the harder it will be to leave it, and for people to scumhunt, and that will benefit scum. So, if a person isn’t talking in rvs or giving opinions in the rvs, then it would be assumed they don’t want to help RVS progress (assume that no one like axel or os is helping it progress for this example) and wouldn’t mind if it lingered a while longer.

It would be a legit stance to accuse that person of being scum for not helping the rvs progress, but that person would have had to post to be accused of not giving an opinion (because he would have had to post filler or something for this to be true). Of course, this would not be a hard or solid stance at all (You wouldn’t use this as evidence to lynch). This is just producing pressure and a means for that person to defend themselves, and an opportunity for the rest of the town to weigh in, and for the scum as well. From there you would have to look at the intent of the people who have weighed in, and figure out the scum from there. If no one posts at all and just keep posting filler and lurk, then no one can really accuse anyone else of suspicious intentions because no one has exhibited any actions to attract attention/suspicion in the first place, therefore ****ing town’s d1. This of course would need for someone to do something crazy (like me posting some rqs and getting attention for it in HP maf) to help the rvs progress itself somehow in that situation. As you can see, I am very fond of the rvs.

So you're calling me scummy for something you could only do because you had meta on him? What about someone that doesn't have any meta on Zen? How are they going to reach the same conclusion as you? Trying to seem town by saying that I don't like alliances and can't see the town intent behind them? How is that townie in any way, shape, or form?

Why don't you stop being hypocritical and consider the possible scum intent behind it? I could call you out on the same thing you're calling me out on very easily.

You don’t need meta. You have everything you need in this thread. You just looked at him as a person proposing a TA. You didn’t look at what he did afterwords, or what he was doing currently at that time. Yet again, I felt Zen was trying to gauge reactions with me, Kantrip, and DH. You, didn’t want to give an opinion on the TA or what it has done, quote here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14275793&postcount=323

Well, you can't propose thoughts to an alliance that is broken up, so no thoughts on it.

Now tell me, what do you think of Zen’s interactions with DH and Kantrip? You didn’t look at others who also have proposed alliances, such as macman. This shows you don’t really care about TA’s as you say you do, and only want to seem like you are against them in this case. Furthermore, you state things like “Why would I join you if I already said I disliked TA’s in the first place?” while ignoring Macman’s alliance. Yet again I find this suspicious.

I am not being hypocritical.

I responded to the second part of this post before the first, but I'll just say it now, great reason to have me as scum for not believing what you do within the intent, especially when you show with wording that you're not even certain of it yourself (with word choice like "I believe", it's obvious that you're not 100% certain)

Where did you get that feel? Because he didn't want to align himself with you?

How are Kantrip and Dark Horse weak? Why did he choose them over me or you, players that are considered weaker than the two above?

Waiting for you to go into the "crappy case" before I comment on it at all.

You asked me why he didn't propose anything to the alliance after the day started, not about the alliance as a whole. Reach some more, please.

What are you even going on about with everything after the sentence talking about Kafka? Do I need to respond to that? It sounds pointless to have it there.

I don’t think the wording matters. A townie will always have to ‘believe’ and won’t know for certain until there is a alignment flip. I find you trying to discredit my push on you because of my wording suspicious.

No, I got that feel from observing his actions. Something you refused to do.

Dh I feel is weak, yes. I assumed Kantrip for the same reason, because I have read a game of his and thought he was very opportunistic and scummy when he was just a vt. Even here I think he’s just a bit confused, for example his bickering about not wanting people to respond to his accusations when they [his accusations] themselves are filled with hot air. Basically, there are better players for that position so I feel he wouldn’t erect one with Kantrip and DH in the first place.

Me and you are good players, rather we are low but we are getting better and I feel you are downplaying both of us. Even so I don’t think the purpose was to take advantage of them, but to gauge them for some reason, even if not because of inexperience/lack of skill.

I have already explained it. Did you agree or disagree with Axel’s case on me?
Uh yes you can give thoughts on that, just as I did. Here is this quote from me (with <3):

Underlined, Notice how he came in, voted, and didn't propose anything to the alliance

Now think of it as “didn’t do anything with the alliance”. Now give me your thoughts on that whole sentence, not just that fragment.

No I was giving a meta example of Zen.

What? You don't think he intended to use it or misuse it? Where did you get that idea from? Because of the fact that he chose Kantrip and Dark Horse?

I don't know why he chose those two players. Maybe he has meta on them, can read them easily, they're easy to abuse/mislynch, sheep... endless amount of possibilities. Just as much scum reasoning as town.

Yes, from my above response you can see why.

So that would mean null for you, correct?

If he's asking you for a read on Overswarm for the third time, then there is obviously something going on in his head and he obviously wants an answer to his question. The fact that he asked you for a read three times shows that he's not happy with how you're giving reads. I wasn't talking about the first time he asked, btw. Definitely the third.

I am talking about the first time he asked me. Why do you think he asked me for a read on OS after I just came fresh into the game? Him repeating the question is stupid because I already gave him an answer. I have already told him I was trying to garner a read. Now you say he has been doing this himself, now has he given a read on OS? If so, can you point me to where he did?

Read above. Third time, not first. Also, he questioned you instead of voting, realized you were right at the time, and backed off (from the looks of it). Not scummy, just realization and backing away until later, still showing discontent with the way you're playing.

If he realized I was right and that it wasn’t scummy, why do you think he was discontent at that time? First or third time, both times he knew the answer. It feels like he was just trying to get other’s opinions on people without doing the work himself.

Tell me what you could have gained from asking someone why they voted the mod when it was an obvious joke. Tell me what you could have gained from asking someone why they didn't want a joke vote to be a serious one.

Discussion. A way out of RVS. I explain this above in the RVS scenario thingy.

Yes, I can understand why RR would, which is why I'm considering it null and not questioning him on it nor looking at the intent behind it. He'd do it as either alignment, so it's pointless to ponder about the mental thought process behind it that you can't prove in any way, shape, or form (although you could use it to back up a town/scum read later if you have a ton of content/evidence that can connect to the mind process used for making said alliance, but that won't come in until day 3-4 or later).

How do you know what Zen wanted to do? Oh wait, you don't. It seems like it to you, but you don't 100% know. You're going to call me scum because I didn't find the same logical conclusion that you did (with all of your experience with him and my 0% experience with him after my brake)?

In conclusion, this is what I got from two posts of you spewing BS (I wrote this earlier in response to the last part of the first post, but copy pasted to here):

You're calling me scum for not seeing something that you only could because you hydra'd with him, played plenty of times with him, and have played 2 person mafia with him, and even then, you're not 100% certain. You're using things that don't matter (meta) to defend a fake stance and to try and prove to other people that I'm scummy.

Yeah, you're probably scum.

Again, it’s not just what Zen did. I explained above that you don’t need meta to understand what he was doing. You refused to comment on what he did afterwards when I asked you, so hopefully now you can. You told RR that you wouldn’t join his club because you were against TA’s, but I don’t recall you commenting on Macman proposing an alliance, and one where he didn’t do much on it as well. This is why I feel you are trying to seem town. You first stated that you felt that either Zen would manipulate people, or just be manipulated. You didn’t think that he might have been gambitting, even though you know people gambit here on Dgames. This feels narrow minded and doesn’t seem like you are really figuring out why someone is doing something.

Now I want to know. What exactly is your read on Axel? What do you believe he was trying to do? Did you agree or disagree with Axel's case on me? Why or why not? (I asked this in this quote already but I put it here just in case you forgot it since this is so long : 3 )

....

Man I'm not a wall poster. Sorry. xD

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Joey, I feel we should stop the walls. So I will leave you with the last word. If there is something you need me to reply to that is important, just set aside questions in a short post after your final word.

Opinions:

I like the Rockin wagon. I liked Chaco's point of Rockin leaving 'ghosts of a stance' or something on OS to try and connect to him somehow. It's true he hasn't really given any stances and the only thing I could ask stance wise was his notion to lynching Axel.

I don't like Rajam. He would be the type of lurker I'd lynch D1. He has come in to vote KevinM and hasn't really done anything while being active in other games.

I am still waiting on Kantrip to give an opinion on Dooms and an answer to my question to him before I give an opinion on him.

I like KevinM. I like the direction he is heading in.
I like X1. I don't really see him as scummy. Macman nor anyone really is convincing me. I liked how he pointed out that Joey was fencesitting when it came to opinions on us and DH, and didn't give reasons until asked.
I like Axel. I feel he did the TA to gauge peoples reactions (from within and outside the TA) and also accused me just to garner a reaction from me too. I liked it. Now I hope to see J follow up with this. If he doesn't do a thing I will look at him differently. Although I think he said he was V/la?

I still find Dooms scummy. He seems to be arguing with me just to argue. He still seems like he is trying to seem town by being really against TA's yet doesn't comment on Macman's proposed alliance nor does he comment on him and Marshy not doing a damn thing yet about X1 as a TA.

Nulls on Marshy/Macman/Dh/FF/orbo

I dropped DH to null because my other head says he has been more risky and more open than in SF. So I'll try to look at it from both perspectives and see how he does in the future.

I like Kafka's entrance post, but need more from him. : D

Null on orbo because of not much content.

Nullscum on RR because I felt he may have been using the excuse of the policy lynch as a gambit. I also don't like his stance on X1 because of his vote on him was bad? I would like RR to explain this a bit further. Need more content from RR to read him better because it seems he kind of fell off after Axel replaced out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pink did you at any point read the context of Inferno's vote on Joey?