Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Sheeping does help sometimes if your good with it. I've talked to Xiivi about this a few times, sheeping helps town come together and read people better when done properly.

How does sheeping help people, especially the ones who are sheeping? It's a waste of a vote, and a waste of other reads.

No that is an answer.

I said I would do it. I love gambits, see what I did in Walgreen's when I CC'd someone faking a miller claim as scum to ride it out til the end.

But while I love doing this and would do it when I can, I'm not going to go against what my scumteam would want, aka if Joey was that against the gambit I wouldn't do it.

It's a yes, if I had the opportunity.

Touché

Derped with the above.

Forgot to add, in Axel's situation he still had a voice. He may have had to compromise but his hard refusal was odd to me given that he still had a say in forcing the group to go a certain direction.

Blind sheeping is bad, but playing like a sheep isn't necessarily bad.

But in the end, what is the difference? Player A sheeps player B. Player C has other reads, yet he also sheeps player B. In the end, both are sheeping player B.

Hell, playing like a sheep is even worse, as you're letting actual effort go to waste.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Potential v/la depending on rather or not I'm able to observe a class at an elementary school for my education class.

-Swords

 

[Dooms]

I'll try to respond to things before I do, but I'm replacing out soon (probably friday). 2.5 to 3 week V/LA coming up that I didn't realize would happen, and it'd be rude to stay in knowing that I wouldn't catch up when I came back.

I'm going to re-read, respond to things, and give reads before I replace out.

Just a warning lol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How does sheeping help people, especially the ones who are sheeping? It's a waste of a vote, and a waste of other reads.





Touché



But in the end, what is the difference? Player A sheeps player B. Player C has other reads, yet he also sheeps player B. In the end, both are sheeping player B.

Hell, playing like a sheep is even worse, as you're letting actual effort go to waste.

Funny, sheeping Swiss when he is town is pretty good and worked recently.

Your thinking about blind sheeping, I'm thinking about sheeping with thought.

Felipe, is a blind sheep. He will follow the strongest player regardless of his alignment or the person he is sheeping. That is bad. Sheeping to come together to get a lynch through, for pressure, for reads, that's good.

Going off and doing your own thing isn't the best idea either, look what happened to Tery in Megaman X, shot his personal scumpick over what everyone else in town was saying, caused a blood rage at the player he didn't shoot and people lost in lylo.

It's not always bad, as long as your not doing it without purpose or even trying to have reads on players. Following people who share your reads and you having a town read, that is good.

 

[KevinM]

So I'm ok with lynching

Rockin
Chaco
Rajam
X1

In that order and are curious as to what wagon people would like to hop on first.

I believe in my first two its an 80 percent chance one of them is scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'd lynch Rajam tomarrow, not today.

Chaco is a maybe but the rest are fine with me.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

I am liking the Rocking wagon, actually.

I'd head in that direction. Want to see Joey's response first tho. (If he doesn't get to it I'll hop right on)

Also consider half of this hydra is a girl... so we'll just... forget to tell her. ;D

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@RR

You know what, to avoid confusion, how about you give me an example of some "playing like a sheep?"



Though I want to see more of Raj, I'm fine with him dying. Not only is he doing the whole "constant catchup," but he has posted before, and he had acknowledged this thread's existence. It's almost as if he was deliberately waiting for a time to start catching up.

 

[Orboknown]

V/la till next week. finishing gigabots today, then work and other shiz till then.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Good or bad DH?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Goo d

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

JoeyDoomsCutiePieBandDude has requested replacement, and until one can be found, he is free to post in thread. If you know anybody who'd be willing to replace in please let me know!

 

[Chaco]

Gotta do something more than that Kev.

 

[Chaco]

None, not really reading into it at the moment.



Difference of approach for me, because I primarily look at the framework. By the end of any game of mafia I could convince town that any singular person is of an anti-town faction with "evidence" and "tells", but the framework for presenting that evidence would be shaky.

I always prefer to see the building blocks more than the result, and see how the lines are crossed.

That's (the framework) probably why no one ever follows me when I have a good read on someone. The way I present it is usually god awful, even though the facts are there.

 

[Rockin]

Tell me what the dumb is that you are seeing. I've ignored the Dooms walls, so if you mean those, by gods I agree.

@OS: Holy mother of wall text.

Okay, no problem

Pink, what are your reads?

T felt this was a pretty dumb and unneeded post, despite this was a 'pre-game post.'

Asking for reads on specific people is alright. Asking for reads of all the people in general on D1 as well as asking it on a time when the game barely starts is dumb.

I am more than fine with these consequences. I WANT a string of PRs to claim among inactive/"useless" players. That gives scum a hard choice of what to go for: Players who are a force in the Day, or players who have PRs.

I commented on this before, but I'll say it again. The fact that Kantrip is totally okay with people posting their claims and giving more information to mafia has me wondering 'dumb or scum.'

Don't have much time here but I've got to say frozenflame's jump onto me screams opportunism. The wording of it is very aggressive and as a result comes off forced as well. It reminds me heavily of adumbrodeus' scum push on me D1 in Britches and Hose.

In short, frozenflame is seriously scum. The time for joking is done. Serious time, starting now.

Unvote; Vote: frozenflame751

The Logic behind this post has me debating whether he's 'dumb or scum' or was 'defensive' against FF. In either case, it's a post I disliked seeing =/

KevinM - I see you voting on me and have already wanted me lynched, but I don't think you have explained your reason.

Pink Lemonade - I don't have much of a stance on anyone cause I really don't see anyone scummy atm. Unlike most people who just calls out 'town' or 'scum' in the first two posts, I like to take my time and try to peice together information so as to see who's scummy and who's townie. Curious, do you approve of the wagon on me, or my lynch? Couldn't quite understood your stance on me.

So Red ryu, now that Axel isn't in the game, anyone you're particularly looking at and why?

 

[Rockin]

EWOTP: And when I said Axel, I meant Zen lol

 

[Overswarm]

That's (the framework) probably why no one ever follows me when I have a good read on someone. The way I present it is usually god awful, even though the facts are there.

Try posting more walls.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i reread an guess what guys

come closer so i can tell you






yeah right about there







i still wanna lynch scumferno

 

[#HBC | marshy]

oh scumkins lookin grimy as **** too. meh

@red ruy & macman still feelin scumferno aye?

vig mow down our scumkin/scumferno/scumjam problem tonight thanks man i appreciate it

 

[KevinM]

Is scumkin rockin?

Just makin sure you got this.

@Chaco: everytime you've dismissed my case on you with "Do better" you've flipped scum .

 

[Overswarm]

why does everyone keep using textbook logical fallacies

it is like they are looking them up and saying "That one. That is the perfect thing to say."

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Is scumkin rockin?

yeah son

not as much shakin and movin as id expect from a large what the **** town!

request votecount

 

[KevinM]

why does everyone keep using textbook logical fallacies

it is like they are looking them up and saying "That one. That is the perfect thing to say."

If you're referring to what I said, I'm just pointing out his tendency to be dismissive when he's scum.

 

[I am Zim!]

Deadline set for 4/10 at 11:59 PM!

frozenflame751- (2) X1-12, Kantrip
KevinM- (1) Rajam
X1-12- (4) Red Ruy, Macman, J, Marshy
Rajam- (1) Orboknown
Rockin- (2) KevinM, Chaco
Dark Horse- (0)
Macman- (0)
marshy- (0)
Chaco- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (1) Dooms
Kafkaesque- (0)
J- (1) Overswarm
Red Ryu- (1) Dark Horse
Orboknown- (0)
Kantrip- (1) Frozenflame
Dooms- (1) Pink Lemonade
Overswarm- (1) Kafkaesque

Not Voting- (1) Rockin

 

[KevinM]

God Rajam so useless..

Vig please shoot.

He literally caught up to Pre D1 stuff then stopped posting again *sigh*

 

[Kantrip]

Would I have the guts? Yes, but only if my scummates agreed to it.

I'd never force something on them unless they were sure they were to go along with it, I like having a strong say when scum in decisions. But I wouldn't force ideas unless they were sure of it.

I'd tell him to do what he wants but to be town when doing it, so if he hates alliances, I forgot from our hydra he thought me doing that was weird.

So in short, yes but only if he was willing to play along with it. And he would oppose it most likely.

Thought I would still love a Ryu/Joey/*insert person here( housepets alliance :<

You were honest, but this is quite a politician's response. I have the feeling you were very careful when typing up this answer, is this correct? Not indicative of alignment, but careful nonetheless.

Except sheeping in general doesn't help, regardless of whether they have voices or not. Why are defending sheeping?



Let's assume RR is scum. Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity to mislead you, as he could just tell you that he would do X, and do Y?

RR's response itself is pretty open, "I would, but It would depend on Joey." No real answer.

He could only mislead me if I was planning to let his answer lead me at all. It was more about how he answered than what he said. Anyone can mislead you at anytime if you take their responses at face value, but it's how they go about it and their ulterior motives that matter. I'd say RR's answer was carefully crafted all around and it's really not very telling to me. I can say I honestly don't think that Joey and RR are scum together, but anything else would be a rougher call.

 

[Kantrip]

Derped with the above.

Forgot to add, in Axel's situation he still had a voice. He may have had to compromise but his hard refusal was odd to me given that he still had a say in forcing the group to go a certain direction.

Blind sheeping is bad, but playing like a sheep isn't necessarily bad.

I personally saw no benefits in having two people dictate a third person's actions.

The thing about sheeping usually is that you PICK someone/something to sheep because you agree with THAT thing. Signing into the TA was deciding to sheep before you even knew what you were sheeping. Sheeping is NOT pro-town when it's not their real opinion.

 

[Kantrip]

@KevinM contemplating "dumb or scum" about me: I want you to know first of all that getting inactive people to mass-claim wasn't something I wanted to actually happen, but it was great to talk about. I got around to seeing some pros behind that when I thought it was purely a bad idea when Axel first suggested it.

With the FF vote, as I think I said earlier, I was trying to see how he would react to me throwing some accusations at him (not completely hollow as RVS votes would be, but not strong either). My hardcore "he is SERIOUSLY scum" thing wasn't for real, and at the time I was much more null with him and his pressure against me.

 

[Chaco]

@Chaco: everytime you've dismissed my case on you with "Do better" you've flipped scum .

Did I really? It's been so long since I played with you. But really, the only case I see is a case of air.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Kantrip, I disagree with the sheeping part and it's situational. But I'm gonna leave it there since any more discussion of that is pointless here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Same for DH, I'm not gonna go in circles about why sheeping isn't universally anti-town and is mislabeled as such.

I don't like that people do it, Felipe instantly comes to mind, but people like that will exist and they can be pro town with it depending on the situation.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So Red ryu, now that Axel isn't in the game, anyone you're particularly looking at and why?

In a reread will get back to this tomarrow for full answers.

Just us my answer to KevinM foir the three I got atm, Chaco, X1-12, yourself.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

oh scumkins lookin grimy as **** too. meh

@red ruy & macman still feelin scumferno aye?

vig mow down our scumkin/scumferno/scumjam problem tonight thanks man i appreciate it

Still more than anyone else atm.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You were honest, but this is quite a politician's response. I have the feeling you were very careful when typing up this answer, is this correct? Not indicative of alignment, but careful nonetheless.

Don't think it would have either way, for my alignment. I just answered how I would do it and what the background of what would go on if I did.

Dunno where the political stuff is coming from.

He could only mislead me if I was planning to let his answer lead me at all. It was more about how he answered than what he said. Anyone can mislead you at anytime if you take their responses at face value, but it's how they go about it and their ulterior motives that matter. I'd say RR's answer was carefully crafted all around and it's really not very telling to me. I can say I honestly don't think that Joey and RR are scum together, but anything else would be a rougher call.

Joey is town me thinks, a lean but I'd bet more on him being town over scum.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Rockin: Yes I approve of the wagon and your lynch. Chaco made a good point that you just talked about OS and the only thing game related you talked about earlier on was about Axel, and that was the only thing I could have picked up on from ya. Like it seemed you were trying to connect yourself to OS in a subtle way.

Do you have an opinion on me and Joey? How about Rajam?

I don't know where Joey is at, but I'm moving my vote now.

Unvote Vote: Rockin

@RR: Why do you want to lynch Rajam Tommorow instead of ToDay?

@DH: Sheeping is ok in some situations. Thing is if you don't have reads, then if you see someone you can trust you can just sheep their reads (or vote) for the time being at least to go in SOME direction. But it doesn't help others read you. See, for a lynch to be reached, someone has to lead it, and others have to follow. Kevin is leading, we are following. Get it? You just have to watch when people sheep to get a lynch instead of just trusting that person. That's when you look at that person's intentions.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Red Ryu:

One more question;

Rockin - There is merit to this one, when I explain the whole what a hows it do it stuff from the Axel reactions I saw his posts to it and actions around it to be rather, "too perfect" in a sense.

What did you mean in this statement about Rockin? Like merit to WhAT?

 

[Overswarm]

Is scumkin rockin?

Just makin sure you got this.

@Chaco: everytime you've dismissed my case on you with "Do better" you've flipped scum .

If you're referring to what I said, I'm just pointing out his tendency to be dismissive when he's scum.

You're confusing cause and effect. Just because Chaco dismissing your case with "do better" in the past has resulted in him being scum does not mean the two are directly linked.

What would be a more accurate assessment is why he is being dismissive. It may be that this time he feels that your case is "nothing but air", but during the times he was scum he knew that he couldn't answer your question honestly without getting himself lynched. Given the state of the game and how little anyone has really said, I doubt there is any question you could ask him that he couldn't answer in some fashion easily. If you feel he is actually avoiding the question, press farther rather than deal with generalities and I could definitely see myself following your lead on this. But implying that Chaco's actions correlate with his scum play based off of him simply not bothering to respond when, at this point, that brings more attention to him than simply answering? Waste of time.

While it is entirely possible that he is scum, you "catching" him saying "do better" is not correlated with it.

That's what I mean by logical fallacies.

Meta is fine and I use it all the time, but that can't really be considered Chaco meta given that it is supported by a single sentence

 

[KevinM]

I'm more placing a place holder to look back on. I don't play mafia in your style just like you don't play in mine.

Thank-you for lecturing me on how to play mafia, though at this point your contribution to the game with actual reads might be a little more helpful then just nitpicking peoples posts without putting yourself out there.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm more placing a place holder to look back on. I don't play mafia in your style just like you don't play in mine.

Thank-you for lecturing me on how to play mafia, though at this point your contribution to the game with actual reads might be a little more helpful then just nitpicking peoples posts without putting yourself out there.

I have little patience for players who approach the game on their own rather than as a team effort, and I have even less patience for players who don't show the framework that town needs to understand their actions.

Reads at this point are ultimately useless; I'm more concerned with intent and commentary at the moment.

Saying:

So I'm ok with lynching

Rockin
Chaco
Rajam
X1

In that order and are curious as to what wagon people would like to hop on first.

and then:

@Chaco: everytime you've dismissed my case on you with "Do better" you've flipped scum .

If you're referring to what I said, I'm just pointing out his[Chaco's] tendency to be dismissive when he's scum.

Does not imply you are making a "placeholder".

I'm more placing a place holder to look back on.

You've listed Rockin as your #1 lynch for today after both Chaco and myself pointed out some less than palatable aspects of his play so far, and have Chaco listed as your #2 scum read and have publicly noted (using the logical fallacy I pointed out) that Chaco's actions fit his scum meta, if not scummy in of themselves.

Here's the kicker.

I don't know why, KevinM.

You've listed Chaco as your #2 lynch pick, but so far your only support that I recall is his scum meta from previous games, as noted in your post #500. Except you listed Chaco as your second lynch choice in #485, meaning you already had something on him prior to that. I don't know what that is, because you didn't reference Chaco prior at all in any of your posts.

You've listed Rockin as your #1 lynch pick, but again I don't know why. Your only post in regards to Rockin is "all aboard" and a vote on him. That's it. Everyone else did the legwork, and I don't even know which person you agree with, if any.



So enlighten me, KevinM.

Why did you vote Rockin? You haven't questioned him at all, but have referred to his wagon as a "scum wagon"... yet have given absolutely no input of your own.

Why is Chaco your #2 lynch choice? Why Rockin over Chaco? You obviously had something prior to our recent exchange, but there's no way for anyone in this game to know it.

What is your intent?

Because you obviously don't know their alignment for certain unless you are scum, but if you are town you aren't making any effort to explain your actions or get more information for your reads. You've repeatedly listed Macman as "hard to read" and the other player you've commentated most on is me.... yet you don't ask me anything directly and I've hardly been hiding. Closest you've got to trying to figure me out is "I hope you post some reads".

Actions speak louder than words, and currently your words are hollow and unreadable. This could apply to many, but you've caught my attention with several opportunistic posts so I'll pull you into the light first.

vote: KevinM

Do explain.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Because I'll be going to New York City, I'll be V/La tomorrow.