Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[Pink Lemonade]

OH, yeah I saw it. His vote on Dooms was bad. But it didn't really stand out to me. I'd need convincing to see the scum intent in it tho

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That alone convinced me, a reread of his play before the game started reinforced my read off that one vote.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I still find Dooms scummy. He seems to be arguing with me just to argue.

Not a scum tell without showing motive for scum play.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Heck if I am reading this correctly it's because you voted him off going against the Axel wagon without looking at intent, disagree here, and how he responded to me about the policy lynch, if anything he responded better than most people regarding it.

then the wall trading started, saying he is scum for arguing against your reasoning to vote him is a tad off if you started the confrontation.

 

[Chaco]

Joey will get to you.






Ok Chaco. Why did you say "Ew no" if you didn't even read the post yet?

Also what was your meaning in saying "He's like it to much."?

....hahahahahahahahahahaha. Old school dGames jokes mayne, everyone knows we give Rockin flak about being gay. The "ew, no. He'd like it to much was in response to the way Kevin stated his post. As in everyone jumping on Rockin, this game is primarily guys, 1+1=2.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Well my point is that his accusation on me is that (partially) my defense was weak. Then I explain to him why it isn't, and then he says my reasoning is dumb and then I explain to him why it isn't. I dunno it just seems like that, or may be he just lost it in the so many walls.

But that isn't my main point of him being scummy to me. And it's deff not for him arguing against my reasoning. It's the same vibe I get from his 'trying to be against' the TA. Like he is arguing with me to SEEM like he is scumhunting, instead of trying to understand my explanation. (Why my questions would have created discussion, but he disagreed and it contributes to his reasoning to accusing me of being scummy)

 

[Pink Lemonade]

....hahahahahahahahahahaha. Old school dGames jokes mayne, everyone knows we give Rockin flak about being gay. The "ew, no. He'd like it to much was in response to the way Kevin stated his post. As in everyone jumping on Rockin, this game is primarily guys, 1+1=2.

Looooooool.... Ok I'm cool with you now.

 

[KevinM]

Marshy, are you going to hop on this scum wagon or has your vacation from Dgames given you cold feet?

 

[Chaco]

The Rockin "wagon" is bad. The votes after KevinM vote for no reason say that he has done nothing, which really isn't the case. Wouldn't look at OS for it though, as he didn't jump on it.

...this post reeks of scum. Subtle halt on Rockins wagon with a blanket defense of somwthing he's already admitted, then an OS note as well. So you're trying to buddy up to OS, and defend Rockin. Cool.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Man PL v Joey looks TvT the more they flesh it out from both sides.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Swords/Kuz hydra: Can you tell me what makes you think makes it scum of Chaco and OS over lazy with how they have been scum hunting this game? I could see it as either way from what you pointed out.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Ok reading and up to page 8. Biggest things that caught my attention was Kantrip's post (the same one that FF is voting him for) and (surprise) Inferno's play.

In short, don't like Inferno at all here. Votes on RR and Joey are very bad and feel very forced. Also this post:

SF = Shining Force? If so, why would you not want a repeat of that? That was a very good town game.

Vote: Red Ryu



I'm not a fan of Axel's pregame talk but where the hell does this come from?



100% disagree with this. Votes and wagons provide pressure which is good to find scum. If we all agree to stop voting at L-3 then the wagon doesn't continue.

Is worded very awkwardly in the sense that's it's way too antagonistic for what he was talking. In general play feels forced.

Also

@FF: "We cannot take Kantrip's post asking inactives to claim PRs as a scumtell or a towntell but only as a dumb tell, as really neither fraction would actually ever do that."

Tell me why that logic is wrong if you would.

 

[Rajam]

ok I'm done with a college project, so I can put full attention to this game now. Sorry for basically no posting so far.

---

Hey Axel, is this still up?:

There's only four of us for now :). Alright TA this how we are going to work. We will evaluate everyone's membership two times a day. Once at the beginning of the day and once during the middle of the day (about 5 irl days). During each evaluation phase you may choose to opt out of the Town Alliance or propose the disbarment of another member(s).

While in the TA we shall stand together, vote together, work together. Who we as as group choose to vote shall work in this way:

-Any member may bring forth a proposed motion. "TA: I propose (motion)"
-All members shall vote for or against the motion using "TA: Yay on (motion)" or "TA: Nay on (motion)."

Example:




As a group we will take whatever action receives majority. So it would follow from this that we would vote from Chaco. There are currently 4 of us. Since OS will follow my vote we will just consider the three of our votes (Axel, Kanty, DH). Each of us being worth one (I don't get another vote from OS, he will just follow our decisions).

TA: Anything either of you would like to amend? I propose we add 2 more people before d1. Our next evaluation phase will be 5 days from the start of d1.

I'd like to join if I'm not included :B

(what "TA" means btw?)

 

[Dooms]

LOL RAJAM. Read the thread, please.

Not playing mafia today due to homework, nuzlocking, and relaxing in general. .

 

[Kafkaesque]

Hey Macman, what'cha think of DH? I saw you express discomfort about him earlier and would like you're official stance on him.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Wow page 9 looks long.

X1 purely curious but why do you care about establishing that OS is town? It's not like it's really been an issue so why focus on it?

 

[Rajam]

os i never said anything to you about the town alliance, i don't know why you're talking about it.

Ta: I propose we vote pink lemonade d1

please review the posts he has made so far. They do not line up. His thought process is not together.
1. He voted before the game began. I know well how ran thinks as town from hydraing with him twice. He is very analytic and contemplated everything. He may not seem it, but he does pay very much attention when he is attempting to gain reads. His vote here is very off for the fact that he wasn't attempting to gain a read, but rather looking like he was doing something.

2. #127. He questioned joey about whether it mattered if votes counted or not. First of all think about how useless this question is. There is nothing he could possibly gain from this. He asked this because he is nervous about mistakingly voting pregame.

3. Look at the other questions he has been asking. We all know ran asks useless questions, but he always has some sort of reason behind them, mostly due to curiosity. The questions he has been asking here though completely have nothing he can gain from them at all. Nothing. It's as if he is trying to set up bases for throwing suspicion around. Take a look at #74, the bottom quote. How does os response not answer him? It does completely. Town ran would say something like "oh ok" from this, but instead he is unnecessarily trying to push on it. He's fake scumhunting everywhere, trying to push/set up suspicion on absolutely nothing.

Honestly i'd be ok with a ql on lemon d1. I'm 97 + .075% certain they are scum.

+1

I mostly agree with points 2 and 3 though since I'm not familiar with the "analytic" meta on Ranmaru

 

[Rajam]

My thought process is together.

You should know I like to vote people I haven't played with. So, that would either be

A. Marshy
B. Kantrip

I had no JOKE to put into it, so I just voted without reason. And hey, I got a reaction from him? Did it get me a read? No. Do my RVS votes usually get me a read? No, but I still try.

2. So what? There is nothing wrong with voting RVS vote with that reason. ****, that's a pretty good reason for an RVS vote. He could be nervous because he is voting a scumbuddy to distance. Or maybe he is just nervous. Don't expect me to do nothing. Plus, asking these questions can get discussion going in RVS, and that is what I like to do in RVS baby.

3. No, it doesn't answer me at all. No, I have told you that I follow up with my questions. You know that from experience, I have learned going 'oh ok' doesn't do anything, the exact opposite you are accusing me of.

Overdefensive reaction on minimal pressure before the game even starts... not townie

-> emoticon I'll use for catch-up posts

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Rajam I would like for you to explain why you agree with points 2 and 3. Glad to see you are done with your project.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[yt]Q13CoCAAZKg[/yt]

 

[X1-12]

Tell me what the dumb is that you are seeing. I've ignored the Dooms walls, so if you mean those, by gods I agree.

@OS: Holy mother of wall text.

So you haven't read them but you already know they're ********? How'd you manage that?

Sure, you want to look for intent, but again, you didn't provide even a grain of analysis that addresses SPECIFICALLY why Axel would not have the intent of accomplishing something as scum by being vocal in the early game. Literally, all that was said is "lol k well Axel is too loud too early to be scum he's probs town kthx believe me plz". Why the **** would I find that anywhere close to compelling? You're not providing any of the type of analysis you're claiming is what we should be looking for and using in the first place!

Because what would he gain from doing so? He's drawing tons of attention to himself, received several votes and gained nothing, how is this all not obvious? What do you suggest a scum Zen's motive for doing it could be? Or do you actually think he's scum who wanted some more influence over town by trying to form an alliance? Because that [non]-power over DH and Kant was totally worth all the attention he got that he otherwise wouldn't have received. How have you not got this yet.

Idk what it means yet it terms of his intent as a player. I'm just noting the nature of his behavior early on. It's too early for me to have any definitive conclusion on what he intended to accomplish by his current playstyle, or how that suggests he is X or Y alignment. I just don't know. Why is it bad for me however, to explain a more nuanced understanding of the nature of his "I'll give my vote to X player unless I decide not to" stance?

Your 'more nuanced explanation' doesn't actually achieve anything but it makes it look like you've posted something useful. This is what I mean, its non-content

I'm seriously confused about what you two are trying to day.

Kantrip said you were just pulling the OMGUS card on him, or rather you were just immediately called his attack on you OMGUS because you attacked him first. When he says you're just discrediting him he means you calling OMGUS without actually responding to his points.

Kantrip's opposition to the joining the majority seems odd to me, he still can put forth an idea but he seems objected to joining in a group mentality and sheeping sort of way. Sheeping is not bad for even good players to if you are good with it and know how to tell people banding together vs blending in and when you should sheep vs opposing an idea. You still keep free will here, but it's not like your forced to servitude of others opinions unless it is a majority.

How does this give you scum intent? And to that point how the hell do you find sheeping good? Reaching similar conclusions can be a good thing yes, but blindly following someone is bat**** ********, it just means original ideas are all but lost, it promotes tunnelling and makes it easier for people to look like they are doing something. Why the hell would you say this, and even more why would you use this idea to attack Kantrip?

Will cover the rest tomorrow afternoon, sorry guys

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm going to try reading this game tonight however this game is becoming a behemoth of walls vs. walls.

Oh wellz, I'll get to work on it. ^^

 

[Overswarm]

Ignore the walls. Then pick a few players that interest you otherwise, and read their walls. Most of the people who are posting walls will be dead when it gets really important, and you'll konw who you need to read.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How does this give you scum intent? And to that point how the hell do you find sheeping good? Reaching similar conclusions can be a good thing yes, but blindly following someone is bat**** ********, it just means original ideas are all but lost, it promotes tunnelling and makes it easier for people to look like they are doing something. Why the hell would you say this, and even more why would you use this idea to attack Kantrip?

Will cover the rest tomorrow afternoon, sorry guys

Because it doesn't force this when he still has a voice in this.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, does this also set Joey in your scumdar? Why or why not?

What do you mean also? I got a town read on KevinM (it was KevinM right?) when he defended FF, because I don't see KevinM outright supporting FF like that as scummates. With Joey, I really don't know what his intent was. All he was doing was pointing out a mistake made in interpretation, and so I can see town intent in his actions. He should have let me respond for the sake of others reading me, but what he did certainly wasn't scummy.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not very motivated to read through walls at this time, I'll be honest. My goal throughout my interaction with FF has been to get involved in a back-and-forth so people could read the two of us, and so I could see how FF reacted. While my initial points were not very strong, I did mean for them to have at least SOME backing with which I could make a pressure vote that actually motivated a response.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Well do you have any opinions besides FF?

 

[Chaco]

@X1: Cause they're all ridiculously long, and unnecessary. Concision is pro-town.

 

[Overswarm]

@X1: Cause they're all ridiculously long, and unnecessary. Concision is pro-town.

Disagree.

Laziness is anti-town. In any game of hidden information, the side with greater control benefits the more information is made public.

This can be both sides, but in a large I'd imagine town would have a distinct advantage the more information was made public.

Posting "walls" may be annoying, but they create a very distinct trail; as long as players are honest and articulate with their beliefs it gives mafia less wiggle room.

While in my games it is sometimes the case that more information = bad for town (several of my games are designed around that premise, FF6 in particular) I highly doubt this game fits that bill.

The more information, the better. Simply seeing "think X1 is town" then later seeing that change to "think X1 is scum" is worthless without knowing the reasoning behind it.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

doubt im changing my vote this day phase but well see when i force myself to read these walls tomorrow

in the meantime is there something in particular any of yall want me to focus on when i read through?

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: Axel

What could you have gained by making an alliance like that? Easier to wagon people? Why did you choose Dark Horse & Kantrip specifically?

Joey what did you hope to gain by asking this question? What kind of answer were you expecting? How would that answer affect your ability to read Axel?

A vast amount of your posts have me believe you are faking content.

 

[Kantrip]

these questions* (plural)

@Pink Lemonade:

In Moderator Mafia I started tunneling Joey pretty hard off of an incorrect read. In LyLo. So I decided to look at that game to see what he did there and what I got mixed up with. I think you should do the same thing. One thing I noticed was a LOT less questions and defending people, two things that have taken up his play in this game. I still have reservations on giving a solid read on him yet, but at the moment I don't like him. I'll see how he answers my questions and that will matter more to me than the other stuff.

Hear that Joey? How you answer my questions is pivotal to my read on you.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

OS what are your thoughts on Inferno's slot?

 

[Kantrip]

Red Ryu, serious question: If you were scummates with Joey, would you have the guts to publicly set up an alliance with him? Would you instruct him to agree with it or oppose it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Would I have the guts? Yes, but only if my scummates agreed to it.

I'd never force something on them unless they were sure they were to go along with it, I like having a strong say when scum in decisions. But I wouldn't force ideas unless they were sure of it.

I'd tell him to do what he wants but to be town when doing it, so if he hates alliances, I forgot from our hydra he thought me doing that was weird.

So in short, yes but only if he was willing to play along with it. And he would oppose it most likely.

Thought I would still love a Ryu/Joey/*insert person here( housepets alliance :<

 

[Chaco]

Disagree.

Laziness is anti-town. In any game of hidden information, the side with greater control benefits the more information is made public.

This can be both sides, but in a large I'd imagine town would have a distinct advantage the more information was made public.

Posting "walls" may be annoying, but they create a very distinct trail; as long as players are honest and articulate with their beliefs it gives mafia less wiggle room.

While in my games it is sometimes the case that more information = bad for town (several of my games are designed around that premise, FF6 in particular) I highly doubt this game fits that bill.

The more information, the better. Simply seeing "think X1 is town" then later seeing that change to "think X1 is scum" is worthless without knowing the reasoning behind it.

I entirely agree with what I bolded, and I totally agree with where you're coming from. However, you can convey these points in a much simpler format than writing out a massive wall and fluffing it up all the while. Bullet points make excellent break downs with a minimum point, and you expound upon it if requested and need be further explained. However, pouring out your heart and soul into a novel, is just plain annoying and it hurts us cause no one wants to read it. They begrudgingly read it when they do, because it's a pain in the *** to go through someone's walls when it is highly unnecessary. I agree they leave a distinct information trail, but a similar one can be obtained through concision. Essentially you're looking for augmented information throughout these walls, correct? I agree the more they flesh it out the easier it is to check its accuracy, but you can flesh it out in a less wordy manner. It's gets to the point where it's easy to hide behind walls, cause no one looks closely enough at them, that's why concision is pro-town. If your evidence is compelling enough, and the tells are there, then you do not need to lay the framework to build up your idea. You with me?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Because it doesn't force this when he still has a voice in this.

Except sheeping in general doesn't help, regardless of whether they have voices or not. Why are defending sheeping?

Red Ryu, serious question: If you were scummates with Joey, would you have the guts to publicly set up an alliance with him? Would you instruct him to agree with it or oppose it?

Let's assume RR is scum. Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity to mislead you, as he could just tell you that he would do X, and do Y?

RR's response itself is pretty open, "I would, but It would depend on Joey." No real answer.

 

[Overswarm]

OS what are your thoughts on Inferno's slot?

None, not really reading into it at the moment.

I entirely agree with what I bolded, and I totally agree with where you're coming from. However, you can convey these points in a much simpler format than writing out a massive wall and fluffing it up all the while. Bullet points make excellent break downs with a minimum point, and you expound upon it if requested and need be further explained. However, pouring out your heart and soul into a novel, is just plain annoying and it hurts us cause no one wants to read it. They begrudgingly read it when they do, because it's a pain in the *** to go through someone's walls when it is highly unnecessary. I agree they leave a distinct information trail, but a similar one can be obtained through concision. Essentially you're looking for augmented information throughout these walls, correct? I agree the more they flesh it out the easier it is to check its accuracy, but you can flesh it out in a less wordy manner. It's gets to the point where it's easy to hide behind walls, cause no one looks closely enough at them, that's why concision is pro-town. If your evidence is compelling enough, and the tells are there, then you do not need to lay the framework to build up your idea. You with me?

Difference of approach for me, because I primarily look at the framework. By the end of any game of mafia I could convince town that any singular person is of an anti-town faction with "evidence" and "tells", but the framework for presenting that evidence would be shaky.

I always prefer to see the building blocks more than the result, and see how the lines are crossed.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Except sheeping in general doesn't help, regardless of whether they have voices or not. Why are defending sheeping?

Sheeping does help sometimes if your good with it. I've talked to Xiivi about this a few times, sheeping helps town come together and read people better when done properly.

Let's assume RR is scum. Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity to mislead you, as he could just tell you that he would do X, and do Y?

RR's response itself is pretty open, "I would, but It would depend on Joey." No real answer.

No that is an answer.

I said I would do it. I love gambits, see what I did in Walgreen's when I CC'd someone faking a miller claim as scum to ride it out til the end.

But while I love doing this and would do it when I can, I'm not going to go against what my scumteam would want, aka if Joey was that against the gambit I wouldn't do it.

It's a yes, if I had the opportunity.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Derped with the above.

Forgot to add, in Axel's situation he still had a voice. He may have had to compromise but his hard refusal was odd to me given that he still had a say in forcing the group to go a certain direction.

Blind sheeping is bad, but playing like a sheep isn't necessarily bad.