Celebrity Rehab Mafia: Day 5 Begins! Deadline is Monday, May 28th at 11:59 PM EST!

[Pink Lemonade]

@X1: Alright thx for explaining dude. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@DH: what do you think about dooms?

Though his read on me is shaky, I'm also reading it as clueless town.

What really makes a difference, though, is this quote right here:

You would if you had a town read on RR (maybe). Why do you respond to RR in such a manner? You could have told him "No, I'm not into alliances they're bad cuz of mojo jojo"

I mean I don't see how you can expect RR to know that you really hate alliances. Seems like you said this to seem town, rather, saying what a townie 'should' say.

This is an incredible reach, and shoves words down Dooms' throat. It makes me think that dooms and pink are on different alignments

 

[Dooms]

Thanks X1 for reminding me that I needed to re-read.

I don't like dooms. He isn't really looking at Axel's intent, and just trying to seem town by being against his town alliance thing. His response to RR was a bit abrasive too, I don't see why he responded like that.

Vote: Dooms

Creating a town alliance when there are no reads out there is completely pointless. If they're scum, they manipulate you early. If they're town, then they don't know your role/alignment, so it shows that they're easily manipulated, making it easier for the scum. There is literally no legit town purpose behind it. Plus, I stopped considering the townie aspects to it when he reacted so poorly after Kantrip/Dark Horse broke it off.

Did he ever answer this? Since he replaced out, guess it's moot. Let me tell you my thoughts on Axel.

I think he made an alliance with DH and Kantrip to test their motives. Underlined, Notice how he came in, voted, and didn't propose anything to the alliance. What was your thought on that?

Nope. He didn't. He said he "lost the quote" when responding to me.

Can I assume that you have a town read on Axel since you're saying that the alliance could only have a town purpose?

Well, you can't propose thoughts to an alliance that is broken up, so no thoughts on it.

Now that Zen replaced out, I think you don't need this anymore correct? If the town is un-trustworthy than l-2 is fine enough.

Wasn't him specifically, it was anyone that played that way. I don't know if there are any other players in here that are like that, so I'm not sure.

Underlined, I want you to explain why you liked Dark Horse, and why you disliked us.

Dark Horse down at the bottom.

I dislike your slot because of your pushes. They're really bad.

2. So what? There is nothing wrong with voting RVS vote with that reason. ****, that's a pretty good reason for an RVS vote. He could be nervous because he is voting a scumbuddy to distance. Or maybe he is just nervous. Don't expect me to do nothing. Plus, asking these questions can get discussion going in RVS, and that is what I like to do in RVS baby.

Look at this quote, for example. You're defending your reasoning for questioning and scummy play with things like "that's a pretty good reason...", which shows you're trying to play it off as scummy when really it's just null. Asking why someone voted the mod or doesn't vote in RVS also doesn't spark discussion, although that doesn't make you seem scummy.

Your DH vote is also very ****ty.

@Inferno: Thanks.

@DH:

No, Dh, it doesn't. See, you have asked me for reads right after my first post. I don't see how you can expect me to have a read when I JUST posted my first post. Does this make sense?

Now then. We have gone over this twice now, yet you haven't voted me for it, or agreed to my lynch, until Axel proposed it. So I assumed you agreed with his reasons. Earlier you said "Pardon me, I don't want to drag this out" What was the meaning of that?

You yourself haven't given reads, nor have you DONE anything to garner reads, and you expect others (like myself) to do your work for you. You ask me to give reads to look like you are scumhunting, but you are not. You are backseat scumhunting, and you agree to my lynch only because I haven't given a read yet, even though I had done much more. Mafia isn't all about 'giving reads/not giving reads'. You even parroted my question to joey about his 'paranoia' trying to look useful.

I'm getting a very bad impression from you DH. Explain yourself~

Vote: Darkhose

You're acting like Dark Horse asking you for reads is saying nothing at all and doesn't show his opinion of you at all. It lines up with his earlier line of questioning and his response, saying that you didn't have any legit reads even though you've been a lively poster.

You're also pushing him for not wanting to lynch you when he's (at the time) part of an alliance that only lynches with a group majority, which explains why he hadn't voted you. You're, again, trying to make it seem like this is a bigger point towards him being scummy than it really is.

Him asking you for reads three times (the second of which, you didn't even respond to) shows that he is trying to get information from you, and him debating with Overswarm shows that he's trying to get a read on him as well. You're acting like he's not doing anything, when he's questioning you, debating with OS, and trying to work on the logistics behind the alliance he had. He was doing way more than you, and your generalization of what he has done just convinces me that you're anti town. Your defense is also very week and moot because all you've done is ask baseless questions such as "Why does it matter if it's a legit vote," or "Why did you vote the mod?"

Vote: Pink Lemonade

You would if you had a town read on RR (maybe). Why do you respond to RR in such a manner? You could have told him "No, I'm not into alliances they're bad cuz of mojo jojo"

I mean I don't see how you can expect RR to know that you really hate alliances. Seems like you said this to seem town, rather, saying what a townie 'should' say.

Why would ANYONE want to form an alliance this early in the game when there is no way that we can have reads on most of the players (since only 4-5 seriously posted a lot in the pre-game that shouldn't have happened)? I understand why Ryu would, which is why I don't seriously question him on it. You're also not understanding how Ryu responded to it. If I was doubting him for it or "expecting Ryu to know that I hate alliances", then I would have backed up my questioning and called him scummy for it. Where's all that at?

By the way, your reasoning in the last sentence is trying to make something seem bigger than it really is. Explain how it's something I'd say to look townie instead of something that I'd say as townie.

So what is your DH read then? You promised to look over it but haven't? You're still avoiding giving this read... why is this??

His conversation with & read on PL are mainly the reasons why I think DH town. His push on RR, while I don't necessarily agree with it, is also something that I like. It shows very obvious intent to scum hunt. Also, the pushes against him are very weak, and convince me that he's more town due to them being so poor instead of the vise-versa. Example would be PL's push.

 

[Overswarm]

Like seriously, I was trying to gambit reactions but I think I legitimately made Zen feel bad about playing, like **** I feel like a total *******.

If he's going to be perturbed by posts in a game about emotional and logical manipulation, that's more his fault than yours.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Hey I exist. Haven't bothered with this game because homework/social life > mafia. Going to catch up now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So i was trying to get Axel to respond to me in a way i could get a clear read on him, confrentation wise and if he got overly defensive. Trying to get that to come out, but it didn't work since it got a replace out instead. :/

I got others to react to it, but a large majority of it is too null reponse wise.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Axel is probably town because he's putting himself out in the open with the stupidest stuff ever (his turning it into a dictatorship doesn't seem like a scum move to me, it seems like a stupid arrogant town move). Also Dark Horse and Axel aren't scummates because of how it went down.

Does this make you town too? Because this is just as ********, if not moreso.

Since when does drawing attention to yourself early game and throwing around questionable ideas make someone town out of no where?

I could buy a meta argument about how Axel might not normally do something like that, but without any explanation as to why a player exhibiting X behavior is unlikely as a specific alignment other than just "lol its too risky and dumb and there's no way he'd do that as scum lulllllllz" I don't buy it at all.

I am more than fine with these consequences. I WANT a string of PRs to claim among inactive/"useless" players. That gives scum a hard choice of what to go for: Players who are a force in the Day, or players who have PRs.

Wow you must be REALLY town if your standard is correct. This is about as ******** as it gets.

Scum ALREADY has to decide between killing power players and less vocal/inactive players REGARDLESS of what their roles may or may not be. Inactives are an attractive option because their flip nets so few connections in the game, while killing power players is obviously attractive if those players are making the scum squirm. The trade off already exists. Now you're telling us that we want to give the scum MORE information to make better night kills amongst the already attractive inactives? Wow, that sounds pretty town bro. Not.

Vote: Kantrip

What do you make of OS from pregame?

is it okay if we toss that question to frozen? i think itd be a good question for him. i wonder why you specifically want me to answer it

i was hoping youd forget about that question actually

Pre-game OS just comes off to me as kinda lazy and not really having balls. "Hey guys I'm gonna copy this dudes vote NO MATTER WHAT! Oh but btw I totally am reserving the right to renege on this if I "find" someone who I really want to vote for."

Translation: I really don't feel like actively using my vote so I'll just functionally give it to someone to see how they react to it/use it and then I'll stop doing that once I actually feel like pushing the game in a different direction.

It's like he's trying to act like a risky hard *** binding his vote to someone for the shock value, but then leaving himself and easy opt out whenever he feels like. Not ballsy at all. He's presenting his actions like he's being reckless or risky but without that actually being the case. The whole thing just seems kinda half-*****/whimsical. Not your typical OS behavior IMO.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Also I really don't see a huge issue with this whole town alliance shindig. Don't know why everyone is freaking out about it. As long as their deliberations are all public, they don't ever grow to constitute the majority of voters, and the TA doesn't sit in the limelight as an object of our focus for ****ing ever, then I don't see why it's so bad.

If scum want to get in to it, they'll have to work to do so, and then they'll have to work to maintain their position. They also have far less wiggle room for independent action, and thus, somewhat have their hands tied. IMO, give scum more responsibility in the game and you have a greater chance to see them **** up. The TA inherently puts more pressure on certain players relative to one another. If scum wants to try their hand at that, I'm ok with it. They'll probably **** up soon enough.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Deadline set for 4/10 at 11:59 PM!

frozenflame751- (0)
KevinM- (1) Rajam
X1-12- (5) Kantrip, Red Ruy, Macman, J, Marshy
Rajam- (0)
Rockin- (0)
Dark Horse- (1) Orbo
Macman- (0)
marshy- (0)
Chaco- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (1) Dooms
Kafkaesque- (0)
J- (1) Overswarm
Red Ryu- (2) Inferno, Dark Horse
Orboknown- (0)
Kantrip- (1) Frozenflame
Dooms- (2) X1-12, Pink Lemonade
Overswarm- (0)

 

[Kafkaesque]

Pink, what's your read on OS?

Too early to base?

If it's too early to base, then why have you voted marshy?

Pardon me. Don't want to drag this out.

Hmmm, weird way to start out the your game DH. Obviously Ran doesn't have a read at this point in the game, so it seems like a pointless ice breaker. Also, you ended it in a strange way to. You weren't really dragging anything out so why did you feel you were?

Seems awfully structured when there's no penalty for denying the majority. Anyone can just vote regardless of the majority decision, and then what?

I am strongly opposed to "obey the majority or be scum". For one, it completely obstructs my ability to read anyone in the group except for the one who puts forth an idea. Everyone else is basically either sheeping the idea or choosing to oppose the idea. At this point, there's no more free will. If the votes are 2 to 1 and the 1 really doesn't want to be forced to do something they don't agree with, we're gonna declare 'em scum for that?

Not only that, but there's the chance of scum in our alliance pretty easily. I have to ask, by which merits was Dark Horse admitted? What made you invite him when you did?

The alliance would still require you convince everyone else to vote with you, which is something one should expect to do anyways. In short, it's either completely redundant or a hindrance.

Last experience I had with something that called itself the "town alliance" was in Majora's Mask. It contained 2 members of the mafia AND the indy in that game, and the group's first order of business was bussing and lynching a third mafioso for town points for the whole group.

I'm open to bouncing ideas off of each other and voting together sometimes, but I'm not committing to anything that will obstruct the game in such a way such an alliance would.

Yeah I agree with Kantrip here. Seems like an arbitrary system without any real benefit. Nothing bad, just nothing good either and pointless. Sure you get voting power but you should probably of been doing that anyways. Also I don't see why evaluation periods have to wait until a certain day or the benefit of that.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14266630&postcount=97

OS big post so I'm not quoting it.

Agree with Zen's 102 (J doesn't exist). Totally superfluous post. Only real thing it accomplishes is OS finishing up his mental masturbation session. Don't see the town intent in it and it seems to me that OS is trying too hard in that post.

Yo, I'm out of town currently in Florida, but I'll be back on Monday.

Yo, you probably won't see this but you in Orlando? If so, wanta do a Dgames real life meet up?

Those who jumped on your idea are now on my radar. Clever, Zen.

Really? Why? Seems like a mechanical reason to have someone on your radar. No one really jumped on Zen's idea btw, Zen invited people into the group.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14267796&postcount=128

Total black and white thinking OS. This isn't a real reason to be suspicious of someone.

Tell me, what do you currently think of Zen (nevermind that I haven't caught up)?

@Inferno: Thanks.

@DH:

No, Dh, it doesn't. See, you have asked me for reads right after my first post. I don't see how you can expect me to have a read when I JUST posted my first post. Does this make sense?

Now then. We have gone over this twice now, yet you haven't voted me for it, or agreed to my lynch, until Axel proposed it. So I assumed you agreed with his reasons. Earlier you said "Pardon me, I don't want to drag this out" What was the meaning of that?

You yourself haven't given reads, nor have you DONE anything to garner reads, and you expect others (like myself) to do your work for you. You ask me to give reads to look like you are scumhunting, but you are not. You are backseat scumhunting, and you agree to my lynch only because I haven't given a read yet, even though I had done much more. Mafia isn't all about 'giving reads/not giving reads'. You even parroted my question to joey about his 'paranoia' trying to look useful.

I'm getting a very bad impression from you DH. Explain yourself~

Vote: Darkhose

Like this post, especially to bold. MY thoughts exactly. Like your play in general, I get a sense of Ran with curiosity which I like. You can be town for now.

Ran, read on OS (now)?

161

Lol DH Ran not giving an opinion this early in the game isn't a scumtell. Hell even you recognize that Ran has shown concern, which if you ask me is pretty townie.

Stuff about not liking Ran (and Joey) and why

Eww, gross.

Ran's play has changed to be like OS? He's being awkward? Are you sure that you've played with Ran before? At worse he should be null to you right now, I'm looking over Ran's play right now and I can't see any of what you're talking about.

Also what's up with that Dooms suspicion?

@PL: Jumping quickly onto a something that "implies" you as town, in an alliance, is more than likely to have a scum member jumping on. Therefore, I marked the joiners on my radar, because I feel this is highly likely. Like voting patterns yknow? Middle of wagon; more likely to be scum. That doesn't necessarily hold as true as it once did, but with this being a a play on that "law", I feel it would do well to take interest in those who jumped on.

Not convinced. Still feels like a mechanical way of viewing things to me.

IGMEOU: Chaco

Going stop here so I can do errands/finish my hw. Right now kinda not liking OS and Chaco (although Chaco needs to post more). Zen started out okay but I can't get behind that Ran read at all and I kinda thought Zen knew Ran rather well. Need to watch him. DH started out weird, but although I didn't mention this I feel like he's been trying. His attack of Ran seems like a dumb townie if you ask me.

and yeah, that's it.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Oh, and forgot about this:

Vote: OS

For reasons stated.

 

[Kafkaesque]

X1-12- (5) Kantrip, Red Ruy, Macman, J, Marshy

Oh hey X1 already got 5 votes? What's this about?

 

[X1-12]

Does this make you town too? Because this is just as ********, if not moreso.

Since when does drawing attention to yourself early game and throwing around questionable ideas make someone town out of no where?

I could buy a meta argument about how Axel might not normally do something like that, but without any explanation as to why a player exhibiting X behavior is unlikely as a specific alignment other than just "lol its too risky and dumb and there's no way he'd do that as scum lulllllllz" I don't buy it at all.

To be fair scum typically do not push themselves obviously into the spotlight on early D1 - unless you find this to be a common scum tactic? I'm pretty sure you could infer from Kant's post that he's saying "does not match up with typical D1 scum play -> is less likely to be scum"

It's like he's trying to act like a risky hard *** binding his vote to someone for the shock value, but then leaving himself and easy opt out whenever he feels like. Not ballsy at all. He's presenting his actions like he's being reckless or risky but without that actually being the case. The whole thing just seems kinda half-*****/whimsical. Not your typical OS behavior IMO.

When you remember the size of OS' ego are you actually surprised that he's presenting his actions like he's better than he is? What is you're actual read on OS and what does the above have to do with it? This is non-content

Vote: FrozenFlame

You weren't really dragging anything out so why did you feel you were?

Have you not read a DH vs Ranmaru before?

Agree with Zen's 102 (J doesn't exist). Totally superfluous post. Only real thing it accomplishes is OS finishing up his mental masturbation session. Don't see the town intent in it and it seems to me that OS is trying too hard in that post.

Don't you think OS just likes mental masturbating?

Also Kuzzai do you like Kanty? And where do you stand on FF?

 

[Dooms]

@Mod: Request that people have to type out my full username to vote me.

 

[Raziek]

@Mod: Request that people have to type out my full username to vote me.

[yt]_OemNp6hgX4[/yt]

Couldn't resist.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

You weren't really dragging anything out so why did you feel you were?

I could have brought up stuff about what I thought of OS at the time, but I then realized that that really wouldn't lead anywhere, and the conversation would just drag out.

That's why I decided to stop there.

 

[#HBC | J]

Jeezus Zen, not making my life easy.

Sorry for not being here but I'll be fully caught up when I'm back from V/LA.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Deadline set for 4/10 at 11:59 PM!

frozenflame751- (1) X1-12
KevinM- (1) Rajam
X1-12- (5) Kantrip, Red Ruy, Macman, J, Marshy
Rajam- (0)
Rockin- (0)
Dark Horse- (1) Orbo
Macman- (0)
marshy- (0)
Chaco- (0)
Pink Lemonade (Ranmaru/July hydra)- (1) Dooms
Kafkaesque- (0)
J- (1) Overswarm
Red Ryu- (2) Inferno, Dark Horse
Orboknown- (0)
Kantrip- (1) Frozenflame
Dooms- (2) X1-12, Pink Lemonade
Overswarm- (1) Kafkaesque

 

[Chaco]

Just returned from a hellish car drive....

And no, I was in Panama City. Got arrested too while there. Whoo!

Anyways, Kafk, I was skimming on my phone and thought that they jumped onto Zens idea. And yeah, it is a mechanical way to look at things, but had they jumped on it, it pulse held merit. However, it's nothing.

I'll read more than the last page shortly.

 

[KevinM]

Joey- Don't really like that we're not a while into D1 and he's still using some stupid fluff posting tactics, it really seems like he doesn't want to contribute to anything that might need his opinion on something.

X1- I didn't really see the hate on him but his last post I didn't like at all, it was pretty much all heavily based on meta stuff that doesn't give us any of his actual insight into the conversations. "Isn't OS always like that" and "Haven't you ever seen X and X" argue is just such a scummy way to talk about the points being brought up.

Town Alliance- I thought it was a rather dumb idea but pretty much a null event in the game because it's really hard for me to read into if the players who latched onto it were serious or not. I think if he was serious about having the names he had listed in red be forced to claim/be lynched then we have something serious to look into but it's hard to think about because it was all pregame.

OS- I don't like how he's played so far, I think he's been wishy washy but I'm expecting him to start posting on issues more so hopefully I can get more of an idea of how he expects to play this game.

Vote Joey

 

[Kantrip]

Don't have much time here but I've got to say frozenflame's jump onto me screams opportunism. The wording of it is very aggressive and as a result comes off forced as well. It reminds me heavily of adumbrodeus' scum push on me D1 in Britches and Hose.

In short, frozenflame is seriously scum. The time for joking is done. Serious time, starting now.

Unvote; Vote: frozenflame751

 

[Kantrip]

By the way, saying it's serious time doesn't mean I was joking about X1 being scum. Just noticed his vote on FF which I'm very happy for, but he can still totally be scummates with FF doing some distancing. I mean, he's voting FF for "non-content" when I think there are more substantial things to drill him for, but the vote is still pretty great

 

[KevinM]

You can't say someone is SERIOUSLY scum, link it to someone else's playstyle in a different game and just say opportunism without pointing out the reasoning behind it..

You come out with a lot of heavy words here and absolutely no backing..

 

[Kantrip]

You can't say someone is SERIOUSLY scum, link it to someone else's playstyle in a different game and just say opportunism without pointing out the reasoning behind it..

You come out with a lot of heavy words here and absolutely no backing..

Really KevinM? I mean, I guess you can go immediately defending someone else before they have a chance to respond to it themselves and make their job easier, but I don't think that's a very classy thing to do

 

[KevinM]

I'm not defending someone.. he still has to respond to your accusations but currently you haven't made any, you're making it literally impossible to read why you think he's scum. Nice attempt at spinning my motives around but I'm calling you out not defending FF. If you're going to say you're SERIOUS about someone being scum and saying they're opportunistic you need to say go into a little more detail.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

To be fair scum typically do not push themselves obviously into the spotlight on early D1 - unless you find this to be a common scum tactic? I'm pretty sure you could infer from Kant's post that he's saying "does not match up with typical D1 scum play -> is less likely to be scum"

On what basis are you saying that typically scum don't push themselves into the spotlight early day 1? So just because someone does something aptypical of what a typical scum might do, we should give them a free pass for that action? That's ****ing ********.

Putting yourself into the spotlight early day one doesn't have to be a scum tactic to make it scummy, or abdicate it of being pro-town. I think him putting himself into the spotlight early on is value neutral in terms of his alignment, and I think his CONTENT (which is what actually matters by the way, his vocalness is just a matter of playstyle) is scummy.

Arguing that just because someone is acting atypically they are less likely to be scum because they wouldn't want to be atypical as scum and draw attention to themselves for it is seriously like n00b level argument. How bad do you think people are at this game as scum?

When you remember the size of OS' ego are you actually surprised that he's presenting his actions like he's better than he is? What is you're actual read on OS and what does the above have to do with it? This is non-content

OS's alleged ego has nothing to do with the machinery behind the method of behavior he pretended to lock himself into.

You call my analysis non-content when you yourself have spouted nothing but bull**** about how atypical behavior somehow means someone is less likely to be scum (awful, shallow analysis that doesn't even differentiate between playstyle, role strategy, and alignment) and about how somehow OS's ego makes him a special case when analyzing his current content. Yeah, no, you can **** off with that ****.

Don't have much time here but I've got to say frozenflame's jump onto me screams opportunism. The wording of it is very aggressive and as a result comes off forced as well. It reminds me heavily of adumbrodeus' scum push on me D1 in Britches and Hose.

In short, frozenflame is seriously scum. The time for joking is done. Serious time, starting now.

Cool, you called me aggressive, an opportunist, and "forced". Oh and man, look at all that analysis. Totally not just labeling and namecalling. You really got me good dude. Man, I wish I could make as compelling an argument as you by just throwing negative descriptors out there and acting as if I actually made a point.

I mean cmon even Kevin knows you're talking out of your ***:

You can't say someone is SERIOUSLY scum, link it to someone else's playstyle in a different game and just say opportunism without pointing out the reasoning behind it..

You come out with a lot of heavy words here and absolutely no backing..

More pressure on this guy please? I throw a few criticisms at him and he immediately kneejerks coming out swinging with a "OMG FF MUST BE SCUM" stance just because I attacked him, and with no real substantiation. If thats how much he reacts to a single attack and vote, we should have a novel's worth of content that proves he's scum after a few more votes lol.

 

[Kafkaesque]

To be fair scum typically do not push themselves obviously into the spotlight on early D1 - unless you find this to be a common scum tactic? I'm pretty sure you could infer from Kant's post that he's saying "does not match up with typical D1 scum play -> is less likely to be scum"

When you remember the size of OS' ego are you actually surprised that he's presenting his actions like he's better than he is? What is you're actual read on OS and what does the above have to do with it? This is non-content

Vote: FrozenFlame


Have you not read a DH vs Ranmaru before?

Don't you think OS just likes mental masturbating?

Also Kuzzai do you like Kanty? And where do you stand on FF?

-No I haven't. Does it matter? I don't think I should assume that meta was the reason. Plus the interaction still started weird on DH's part.
-Perhaps, but I don't want to let the point go simply because "OS mental masturbating is a null tell cus he just does that a lot (which he does, mind you). Big pointless posts are never a good thing and usually serve the purpose of making someone look like they're scumhunting when they're really not (FF's scum play in Melee mafia comes to mind).
-I'm not Kuz, I'm Sworddancer. I've seen Kuz posting around but I haven't been in contact with him and I don't know what he's up to so I'm just taking the incentive to talk without him.

To answer your question, I'm null on both. I like Kantrip's points about the town allienge thing but there's no way I'm going to give town points over simply being logical about something like that. I haven't read anything FF's posted yet except for his most recent posts and I don't know what context they're in so I can't really make a call on him yet either.

 

[Kafkaesque]

I could have brought up stuff about what I thought of OS at the time, but I then realized that that really wouldn't lead anywhere, and the conversation would just drag out.

That's why I decided to stop there.

MMM okay, it's still an awkward question for you to ask but fair enough.

 

[Kafkaesque]

To clarify, when I say "It's still an awkward question for you to ask," I was referring to you questioning Ran so early about OS.

Just returned from a hellish car drive....

And no, I was in Panama City. Got arrested too while there. Whoo!

Anyways, Kafk, I was skimming on my phone and thought that they jumped onto Zens idea. And yeah, it is a mechanical way to look at things, but had they jumped on it, it pulse held merit. However, it's nothing.

I'll read more than the last page shortly.

It doesn't really have merit without context, though. If you admit it was a mechanical way of looking at things, then why do it like that?

Also you got arrested? Cool. Friend requesting you so we can talk about your Fl adventures out of thread.

Anyways, going to try to catch up with this game toMorrow. Again, RL > mafia and RL took up most of my time toDay, and unfortunately it will with the end of the semester coming up. But hey, I'll try.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Creating a town alliance when there are no reads out there is completely pointless. If they're scum, they manipulate you early. If they're town, then they don't know your role/alignment, so it shows that they're easily manipulated, making it easier for the scum. There is literally no legit town purpose behind it. Plus, I stopped considering the townie aspects to it when he reacted so poorly after Kantrip/Dark Horse broke it off.

Interesting. I would actually take this as null. Joey, what is your read on OS?

Yeah, there was a town purpose to it I believe. I feel he wanted to see how weak players would act with POWAH. This was why I asked your thoughts on the alliance thing, but you didn't give any. Even so, I don't think he planned to do anything with the Alliance. Look at how he rejected my friendship of all things! D: < Now then, look at his crappy crappy case on me. I'll comment further on this in response to Kafka (Who is beautiful btw). I don't think he would push such a crap case on me knowing me well. It reminds me of Time Travelers when he gambitted a cop guilty on me. I kind of thought he was scum but he did it to gauge my reaction. He's that kind of guy.

Put simply. I don't think his intent was to mis-use the alliance to gang up on people to mislynch them. Like you said, I feel someone who really intended to use an alliance would have at least tried pick town reads. Also consider that he said that he preferred Marshy, Us, and Rajam. Yet he didn't offer the positions to us, but instead to DH and Kantrip. Why do you think he picked them instead of us?

Nope. He didn't. He said he "lost the quote" when responding to me.

Can I assume that you have a town read on Axel since you're saying that the alliance could only have a town purpose?

Well, you can't propose thoughts to an alliance that is broken up, so no thoughts on it.

Yes, I have a town read on Axel. The ran side.

Wasn't him specifically, it was anyone that played that way. I don't know if there are any other players in here that are like that, so I'm not sure.

Ah, ok. Well I think l-2 or l-1 is fine. Also keep in mind the more votes the more info we have upon that person's flip. Consider that votes show INTENT to lynch that person. So the more votes the more options to find scum. If someone is at l-1, and hammers, they'll be looked at the next day. Although if I feel the town cannot be trusted (newbs/dumbtownies) I'd be ok with L-2. But I don't think it is needed.

Dark Horse down at the bottom.

I dislike your slot because of your pushes. They're really bad.

I don't think so. Carrying on.

Look at this quote, for example. You're defending your reasoning for questioning and scummy play with things like "that's a pretty good reason...", which shows you're trying to play it off as scummy when really it's just null. Asking why someone voted the mod or doesn't vote in RVS also doesn't spark discussion, although that doesn't make you seem scummy.

Your DH vote is also very ****ty.

It's true, your reason for voting Chaco is a damn good reason to vote him in RVS. (I loved it, it was really funny) I always like joke voting in RVS, so I don't see why you would be afraid if that counted. This also shows that you are paranoid about voting someone because you don't want to 'appear' scummy, a fear only scum would have. Only scum worry about appearances. If you were town you would have voted Chaco once the game started and not give a ****. Asking why someone isn't voting in RVS does spark discussion. It goes into "Oh hey why didn't you vote in RVS, don't you want to help it progress?" etc etc. I think you underestimate how good RVS is bro.

You're acting like Dark Horse asking you for reads is saying nothing at all and doesn't show his opinion of you at all. It lines up with his earlier line of questioning and his response, saying that you didn't have any legit reads even though you've been a lively poster.

You're also pushing him for not wanting to lynch you when he's (at the time) part of an alliance that only lynches with a group majority, which explains why he hadn't voted you. You're, again, trying to make it seem like this is a bigger point towards him being scummy than it really is.

Him asking you for reads three times (the second of which, you didn't even respond to) shows that he is trying to get information from you, and him debating with Overswarm shows that he's trying to get a read on him as well. You're acting like he's not doing anything, when he's questioning you, debating with OS, and trying to work on the logistics behind the alliance he had. He was doing way more than you, and your generalization of what he has done just convinces me that you're anti town. Your defense is also very week and moot because all you've done is ask baseless questions such as "Why does it matter if it's a legit vote," or "Why did you vote the mod?"

Vote: Pink Lemonade

Underlined, it does say nothing at all. You can't have an opinion on someone from their very first post. Sure you can ask them questions, but it is very odd to expect a read from that person after just getting into the game. DH didn't have an opinion on me, at all. Also notice how I responded to his reasons for his suspicion on me, and he didn't reply to them. What do you think of that?

No. At the time he questioned me, he wasn't part of an alliance. So why didn't he give an opinion then?

Yes, he was trying to get information I didn't have. I already told him, that I didn't have a read on OS. OS is a hard person to read, (for me) and that has lead me to even ask X1 for tips on reading him. My questions were not baseless, I feel those questions would have sparked discussion like I have already explained above.

Why would ANYONE want to form an alliance this early in the game when there is no way that we can have reads on most of the players (since only 4-5 seriously posted a lot in the pre-game that shouldn't have happened)? I understand why Ryu would, which is why I don't seriously question him on it. You're also not understanding how Ryu responded to it. If I was doubting him for it or "expecting Ryu to know that I hate alliances", then I would have backed up my questioning and called him scummy for it. Where's all that at?

By the way, your reasoning in the last sentence is trying to make something seem bigger than it really is. Explain how it's something I'd say to look townie instead of something that I'd say as townie.

See, you can understand why RR would. I can understand why Zen would do this. I have played with him plenty of times, hydrad with him, and played him plenty of times in the 2 person mafia. (Consider that 2 person mafia really helps with getting to know how a person might play, but I don't bank my knowledge of his play on that only) Yet again, you did not see his intent. Zen would want to form an alliance to gauge people's reactions (Like DH's and Kantrips), and I'm not saying always. I'm saying in this game, that was what it seemed like to me. You are looking at it in a black and white perspective. Some people don't like alliances, some do. I don't really care about them really. I'd just push my suspects and I would direct questions to the alliance if there was one.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

****. I forgot to put @Joey.

THE POST IS RUINED. ;-;

Jk.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not defending someone.. he still has to respond to your accusations but currently you haven't made any, you're making it literally impossible to read why you think he's scum. Nice attempt at spinning my motives around but I'm calling you out not defending FF. If you're going to say you're SERIOUS about someone being scum and saying they're opportunistic you need to say go into a little more detail.

Alright, let me clarify something. I'm not spinning your motives around at all. I doubt you are scum with frozenflame after your move, whether you want to call it calling me out or defending frozenflame is no difference to me. You're doing both either way. My point was never indicating anything about your alignment, and I didn't mean to make an inference of such. I can say now that I don't think you and frozenflame are scum together at all, and it's not a scummate defense. It is possible that it is scum defending town, but I'm not going to try to make that call at this point.

I'll expand on what I mean with specific examples and do some more reads on people tomorrow

 

[Kantrip]

Does anyone have experience playing with frozenflame? I want someone with experience against him to talk to me about his #346. Specifically the stuff talking to X1. Is this in-character for frozenflame? All the swearing and violent phrasing, I mean. I am NOT trying to infer anything at this time, so don't jump down my throat about this. It just seems like he's talking to X1 with more apprehension than when he's responding to me, which is weird considering atm he thinks I'm more of a moron

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Kafka:

You are right, Zen should know me very well and he does. This is partially why I can understand his motive here. I found it odd that he rejected my offer to be friends, without really having much of a reason to doubt me. Then I realized his case on me was pure crap. I know he knows his reasoning was crap, such as the "OS response obviously cleared up your question" when it obviously didn't. His case was also very on the surface too, basically, I don't think he REALLY thought I was scummy from his own perspective. It seemed like another attempt to gauge me as he did in Time Travelers.

Even so, I felt he was town because of his town alliance thingy. I already explained this to Joey. I think he did to gauge people's reactions to it, and to see how weak players would have used power (like for good or for bad). Consider that he would have liked Me, Marshy, and Rajam in it because of our smartness. :o Yet he didn't include us in. : [

My read on OS is null-town. I feel he would try to put on a big front if he were scum, and that's about it. He has been lazy and I still need more posts from him to get a solid read on him. Sure he could just be being lazy as scum to seem town, but if he lurks then I would lynch him for trying to avoid attention. I would ask if you discontinue commenting on OS's entrance until Joey answers my question about him. : D I will explain why after he does.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Does anyone have experience playing with frozenflame? I want someone with experience against him to talk to me about his #346. Specifically the stuff talking to X1. Is this in-character for frozenflame? All the swearing and violent phrasing, I mean. I am NOT trying to infer anything at this time, so don't jump down my throat about this. It just seems like he's talking to X1 with more apprehension than when he's responding to me, which is weird considering atm he thinks I'm more of a moron

I have played twice with him I believe. He will put someone in their place if he thinks they are wrong or just being scummy. So yeah, should be in character for him.

Why do you ask this?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14276363&postcount=327

@FrozenFlame:

I could buy a meta argument about how Axel might not normally do something like that, but without any explanation as to why a player exhibiting X behavior is unlikely as a specific alignment other than just "lol its too risky and dumb and there's no way he'd do that as scum lulllllllz" I don't buy it at all.

I gave one, I would like your thoughts on it.

Pre-game OS just comes off to me as kinda lazy and not really having balls. "Hey guys I'm gonna copy this dudes vote NO MATTER WHAT! Oh but btw I totally am reserving the right to renege on this if I "find" someone who I really want to vote for."

Translation: I really don't feel like actively using my vote so I'll just functionally give it to someone to see how they react to it/use it and then I'll stop doing that once I actually feel like pushing the game in a different direction.

It's like he's trying to act like a risky hard *** binding his vote to someone for the shock value, but then leaving himself and easy opt out whenever he feels like. Not ballsy at all. He's presenting his actions like he's being reckless or risky but without that actually being the case. The whole thing just seems kinda half-*****/whimsical. Not your typical OS behavior IMO.

May I ask, what is your read on OS?

 

[Kantrip]

Pink Lemonade: I ask because it seems forced to me.

On what basis are you saying that typically scum don't push themselves into the spotlight early day 1? So just because someone does something aptypical of what a typical scum might do, we should give them a free pass for that action? That's ****ing ********.

This on its own I could see as an adequate response if FF normally lashes out like this when he feels someone is being stupid. Personally, as scum, the last sentence here is exactly the sort of thing I'd add onto posts addressing scummates of mine for distancing purposes. I can't fairly compare something I do to something someone else does though, which is why I wanted to know if this behaviour was in-character for FF.

Putting yourself into the spotlight early day one doesn't have to be a scum tactic to make it scummy, or abdicate it of being pro-town. I think him putting himself into the spotlight early on is value neutral in terms of his alignment, and I think his CONTENT (which is what actually matters by the way, his vocalness is just a matter of playstyle) is scummy.

I would have just assumed it was regular and not asked about it had FF not continued with this. After saying X1 was being "****ing ********", FF proceeded to explain why anyways. I can't put into words why this bugs me, and I just know I'm going to get called out for it being baseless, but something about the point of being really abrasive and then being calm as you explain afterwards leads me to believing the anger was faked. That's all I can really describe it as.

Arguing that just because someone is acting atypically they are less likely to be scum because they wouldn't want to be atypical as scum and draw attention to themselves for it is seriously like n00b level argument. How bad do you think people are at this game as scum?

OS's alleged ego has nothing to do with the machinery behind the method of behavior he pretended to lock himself into.

You call my analysis non-content when you yourself have spouted nothing but bull**** about how atypical behavior somehow means someone is less likely to be scum (awful, shallow analysis that doesn't even differentiate between playstyle, role strategy, and alignment) and about how somehow OS's ego makes him a special case when analyzing his current content. Yeah, no, you can **** off with that ****.

Ugh, as I read this over I'm second guessing myself. I can actually see what FF means wrt X1 and maybe the behaviour is warranted. It's kind of like a "slap you for being dumb and then explain it really slowly" type of thing. Last paragraph is really what caught my eye. A lot of censored stuff when I didn't think at the time there was anything to be THAT angry about. If FF is as you say then I can actually see this behaviour lining up.

I'll scratch this, thanks Ran.

@FF: You're saying my accusations are baseless, and at the same time you're pulling the "OMGUS card" on me, incriminating me for disliking you after you criticized me. I think this accusation is just as baseless because you're calling my suspicion on you fake just because you were on me first. I realize I haven't expanded on what I said, but should it not be in your best interest to get me to do that, rather than discrediting everything I said?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Hey Kantrip. I want to know, what is your thoughts on Dooms?

 

[Kantrip]

I haven't really read into Dooms yet, but I'll throw that in tomorrow for you if you want me to.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Yes, I would like that please.