CASUAL ELITISTS vs COMPETITIVE ELITISTS!!!!

[TheBuzzSaw]

The casuals are blamed for the removal of WaveDashing and whatnot all the time...

What? That doesn't even make sense. Who is blaming them for removal of wavedashing? And how would casual players influence the removal of wavedashing? Are you referring to its removal in Brawl? That doesn't mean anything. There will be new advanced techniques in Brawl, anyway. I, for one, will not miss wavedashing.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume you are referring to threads where upon announcing that wavedashing was gone, casuals rejoiced while advanced players mourned. Casuals still moved first. They said stuff like, "HAHA! Now we're gonna **** you online because you don't have your precious wavedashing! Boohooo!"

 

[Demon Kirby]

there isn't supposed to be hostility in this thread! haha come on now guys

Alright.

*hug*

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Alright.

*hug*

This coming from Demon Kirby? *shudders*

 

[Demon Kirby]

This coming from Demon Kirby? *shudders*

I'd hug you too if you weren't, y'know, a razorblade.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'd hug you too if you weren't, y'know, a razorblade.

... I need to work on that.

 

[sfox8]

All the arguing going on in this thread is exactly what the thread is about.

I'm in between casual and competitive. I've never had a problem with any competitive player. I am a bit annoyed that some people here are grouping all casual and competitive players together like they're all the same. Not all casual players start arguments with competitive players and call them cheap. And not all competitive players argue with casual players.

I think the stereotyping needs to stop. That's one of the main reasons these kinds of arguments get started in the first place...

edit: i'd also like to add that not all casual players are noobs.

 

[Xanderous]

Casuals are the instigators, which is ***-backwards if you ask me.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I think the stereotyping needs to stop. That's one of the main reasons these kinds of arguments get started in the first place...

How many times must I repeat this? I have no problems with casual players. I am unopposed to playing with items. I am perfectly fine with playing on Big Blue. I am still unsure as to how people gather that people like me are supposedly vehemently against casual players. I like playing with casual players. When I do, I play by their rules.

The issues arise from casual players who feel it is their duty to come onto the Internet, create a forum account, and proclaim their passionate stance on anti-passion. Despite my acceptance for them, they have the audacity to call me a cheater, a cheap player, etc. and that my style should be banned as if I do not have the right to "play against the creators' intent". That is when I start stereotyping.

 

[LavisFiend]

What? That doesn't even make sense. Who is blaming them for removal of wavedashing? And how would casual players influence the removal of wavedashing? Are you referring to its removal in Brawl? That doesn't mean anything. There will be new advanced techniques in Brawl, anyway. I, for one, will not miss wavedashing.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume you are referring to threads where upon announcing that wavedashing was gone, casuals rejoiced while advanced players mourned. Casuals still moved first. They said stuff like, "HAHA! Now we're gonna **** you online because you don't have your precious wavedashing! Boohooo!"

Of course it dosen't mean anything man, but the point still stands that pros are just as guilty as starting **** as casuals are. Here is a post to show you what I am talking about.

Quoted from here, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121725&page=2

Page 2, #21, The Hypnotist:

Kind of a rant but here goes anyways...

They removed something that they knew we loved, them removing wavedashing didn't accomplish anything. They don't want the game to be seriously competitive and they seriously think we, the .08% of the smash audience will make an impact online. Seriously, not cool. I was going to be nice and respect the newbs. But no, because your trying to make the game less pleasing for me I'm going online to destroy newbs. (Yeah I know I'm venting but I'm really upset about this) Seriously those newbs are going to get Chain Throwed, Comboed, it's not even going to be a game. I'm going to teach Nintendo a lesson, not to take away our **** because we're better then the casuals (at the game) and that's something they (Nintendo) just has to accept. Seriously! Trying to make the game eaiser... Auto sweet spot ledge, easier to catch items, characters only playable with items, no wavedashing, possibly no L-Canceling. You guys can't catch everything! You guys won't catch the wobble!

and no, the thread was not casuals bragging about the removal of WD, it is about some kid who is paranoid about talking about techs on a forum board.

 

[Foe]

I think it's not, casual and competitive players as a whole, but the elitists that get the other party mad.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

LavisFiend, thank you for showing that to me. You have proven that stupid people do exist on both sides (and it's what I asked for). I just still think it is worth noting that the ratio is still severely imbalanced on the side of casuals starting crap with competitive players. >_>

 

[sfox8]

How many times must I repeat this? I have no problems with casual players. I am unopposed to playing with items. I am perfectly fine with playing on Big Blue. I am still unsure as to how people gather that people like me are supposedly vehemently against casual players. I like playing with casual players. When I do, I play by their rules.

The issues arise from casual players who feel it is their duty to come onto the Internet, create a forum account, and proclaim their passionate stance on anti-passion. Despite my acceptance for them, they have the audacity to call me a cheater, a cheap player, etc. and that my style should be banned as if I do not have the right to "play against the creators' intent". That is when I start stereotyping.

Calm down. I don't remember ever mentioning your name, in fact. No need to get defensive. I'm just stating my stance on the situation.

Addressing your reply though, I understand your anger over casual players that call you a cheater (also known as trolls. again, not all casual players do this). Either way, I don't believe the stereotyping helps the situation at all. All it does is make things worse. Fighting evil with evil gets you absolutely no where. Stereotyping the whole crowd based on certain people will also get you absolutely no where. Because again, the whole crowd is not like that.

That's basically like me saying "some competitive players attacked me saying i can't be in between casual and competitive and i should be banned from playing brawl because of it! all competitive players must be like that!"

Universal statements = bad. :[

 

[LavisFiend]

LavisFiend, thank you for showing that to me. You have proven that stupid people do exist on both sides (and it's what I asked for). I just still think it is worth noting that the ratio is still severely imbalanced on the side of casuals starting crap with competitive players. >_>

Yup.

However, that was not the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that both sides are guilty of the same crime, no one side is innocent.

I am vastly aware of the number of casuals being the bigger offenders than the pros, but no matter how small the number, pros are just as bad as casuals, sometimes worse.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I agree that stereotyping is a dangerous habit, but I just operate on the philosophy that only casual smashers who have beef with the competitive community are the ones reading my posts, so the innocent ones are protected through ignorance. So, it all works out. XD

 

[AtticusFinch]

Casual players do start it most of the time =/

It all starts with someone saying..."(Insert Adv. Tech. here) is cheap!!11eleven"

And then a mini war brakes out, with johns and C-sticks flying everywere.
I've seen it to many times, I can completly ruin a thread, and even get it closed >.>

But Im not on any side, Im like Switzerland, small and netrual XD

 

[LavisFiend]

Casual players do start it most of the time =/

It all starts with someone saying..."(Insert Adv. Tech. here) is cheap!!11eleven"

And then a mini war brakes out, with johns and C-sticks flying everywere.
I've seen it to many times, I can completly ruin a thread, and even get it closed >.>

But Im not on any side, Im like Switzerland, small and netrual XD

I march to the beat of my own drum. I have no classification.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

LOL @ "C-sticks flying everywhere"

Only on a smash forum...

 

[Foe]

I march to the beat of my own drum. I have no classification.

America.

 

[Igneous42]

lol seriously i dont understand how many of you can be SO harsh to the other side, play the game how you want and have fun doing it. competitive players have fun playing competitively, casual players have fun playing matches with their friends w/o anything on the line.

Stop being ridiculous everyone.

the fact that somebody doesn't bother learning how to l cancel doesn't make them a bad human being, just like the fact that soembody wavedashes doesn't make them a bad human being.

basically...

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

I think the big problem is that a lot of casual players want to be competitive but don't like how in the competitive smash scenes you pretty much have to know advanced techs, which makes them angry. But then the hardcore also take it so offensively it leads to flame wars.

But I agree people take other people's opinions too seriously.

 

[JaimeHR]

What is an Elitist?

 

[AtticusFinch]

I march to the beat of my own drum. I have no classification.

That first part kind of sounds like a term for masterbation XD

But I still second it ^^

 

[Mckillyou]

Gimpyfish62 for Brawl

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

What is an Elitist?

The bigger question is this: what on earth is a "casual elitist"? O_O

 

[LavisFiend]

That first part kind of sounds like a term for masterbation XD

But I still second it ^^

The thing you mentioned about Switzerland made you sound bi with a tiny Pen0r.

We are both guilty of subliminal sexual innuendo.

 

[Foe]

The bigger question is this: what on earth is a "casual elitist"? O_O

An oxymoron?

 

[AtticusFinch]

The thing you mentioned about Switzerland made you sound bi with a tiny Pen0r.

We are both guilty of subliminal sexual innuendo.

lol, well it was a quote from Futerama (Is that how it's spelled?), but I geuss you didn't catch on, but can't blame ya ^^

 

[LavisFiend]

lol, well it was a quote from Futurama (Is that how it's spelled?), but I geuss you didn't catch on, but can't blame ya ^^

Fixed.

It is on Smash as well, I thought you were referring to that.

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

What is an Elitist?

A miserable little pile of arrogance.

 

[JaimeHR]

A miserable little pile of arrogance.

Yup, ego is evil.

Just play the game guys. BEEF!

 

[Hitaku]

... against whom? This is where the contradiction comes in. Casuals claim they have "skills", but they have an extremely weird and skewed definition.

But I'm still confused. Where is the line? How come only some casuals call edge-hogging cheap? Why is rolling cheap to some casuals but not others? Who sets your guys' standards?

I don't really think there is a line...To me it's more of a broad spectrum of players, focusing mostly around not enjoying the tourney environment, not using advanced techs, or just wanting to play the game with all the options available for the "full" experience. Some casuals use some and others don't. It all has to do with the person and their own common belief rather then some sort of law they all follow.

In my opinion a casual player can have skill, just not as much as someone who focuses on the tournament scene (because with advanced techs there is more to learn than without). You can use mind games and know what moves to use at what times without advanced techs...you just wont get as far as someone who uses them. The skill they claim to have is important to them because its designed around what they do when playing the game. When we advanced players look at it we don't view it as much of anything but thats because it doesn't include the techs we put hours into learning.

 

[BigRick]

The bigger question is this: what on earth is a "casual elitist"? O_O

Oh yess, you're too fast and you wrote the words that I was about to write before me!

I guess that's why they call you the Buzz saw hehe

 

[vesperview]

I don't think this thread belongs in the Brawl boards.

 

[Micahc]

I'd consider myself CASUAL, but not what the majority of casuals are. I play with tournie rules and advanced techs etc., but I can't get real competitive because I only have one friend who plays with me, and I'm to poor to enter tournaments

 

[JEBesh]

... against whom? This is where the contradiction comes in. Casuals claim they have "skills", but they have an extremely weird and skewed definition.

But I'm still confused. Where is the line? How come only some casuals call edge-hogging cheap? Why is rolling cheap to some casuals but not others? Who sets your guys' standards?

this is where your logic is horribly flawed.

you need to quit generalizing people as some cult that has to follow set standards for the label that they've been stamped with, especially in the case of casual players where they don't intentionally do anything to merit this label.

casual players are simply players who play for their own enjoyment in their spare time, and do not play to compete in tournaments or any professional means. if you want to make another blind generalization and say that no casuals have true skill, that's fine, but your blind opinion does not change any facts.

you cannot simply pass off an entire group regardless of how eclipsing the majority is to the minority in question.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

This thread is made of ****win and lawl.

4chan's heads are exploding from the logic. Keep going guys!

 

[BigRick]

this is where your logic is horribly flawed.

you need to quit generalizing people as some cult that has to follow set standards for the label that they've been stamped with, especially in the case of casual players where they don't intentionally do anything to merit this label.

casual players are simply players who play for their own enjoyment in their spare time, and do not play to compete in tournaments or any professional means. if you want to make another blind generalization and say that no casuals have true skill, that's fine, but your blind opinion does not change any facts.

you cannot simply pass off an entire group regardless of how eclipsing the majority is to the minority in question.

Try to use logic.

The reason why casuals cannot have true skill is said in your very own post.

Just in case you have a hard time noticing I bolded it out for you.

 

[JEBesh]

Try to use logic.

The reason why casuals cannot have true skill is said in your very own post.

Just in case you have a hard time noticing I bolded it out for you.

who are you to say there is an impossible wall blocking skill progression that no casual player has ever crossed? implying that there absolutely has to be an organized competitive scene in a game for skill to develop is just ignorant. one can develop skill through competitive play in one's own time, such as researching techniques and developing them playing local smashers. it escapes me how people can be so blind as to say you have to go to a tournament to develop skill.

there were greatly skilled smash 64 players before there even WAS an organized competitive scene.

keep in mind i don't consider myself casual nor an exceptionally skilled player.

 

[BigRick]

who are you to say there is an impossible wall blocking skill progression that no casual player has ever crossed? implying that there absolutely has to be an organized competitive scene in a game for skill to develop is just ignorant. one can develop skill through competitive play in one's own time, such as researching techniques and developing them playing local smashers. it escapes me how people can be so blind as to say you have to go to a tournament to develop skill.

there were greatly skilled smash 64 players before there even WAS an organized competitive scene.

keep in mind i don't consider myself casual nor an exceptionally skilled player.

yea sure casuals can gain skill there's no doubt about that

but you said true skill

80% of competitive players doesn't even have it, there's always an aspect of their game holding them back

you think that a casual would have it?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

this is where your logic is horribly flawed.

you need to quit generalizing people as some cult that has to follow set standards for the label that they've been stamped with, especially in the case of casual players where they don't intentionally do anything to merit this label.

casual players are simply players who play for their own enjoyment in their spare time, and do not play to compete in tournaments or any professional means. if you want to make another blind generalization and say that no casuals have true skill, that's fine, but your blind opinion does not change any facts.

you cannot simply pass off an entire group regardless of how eclipsing the majority is to the minority in question.

If my logic is "horribly flawed", how come casual players act like there is a line? They call my tactics cheap, but they fail to define how much I have to hold back in order to not be cheap. They remind me of how Comcast advertises unlimited Internet but yell at their customers for exceeding some limit.

If they truly do not follow a set of standards, then they just need to say so. If they truly have no standards, then why do they complain when they have their butts handed to them by "cheap" players? Are they not just better? Why can't casual players just admit that? What is it about their ego that has to generalize us in that we lack "true skill"? You claim to know what a "casual player" is, yet you overlook the fact that they are the ones marching into the forums and calling all competitive players cheap. As I said before, I have zero opposition to casual gameplay. It is their attitude towards competitive players that bothers me.

And yes, there is a wall that casuals cannot surpass. For each player, it is different. For some, that wall is as silly as Link's up-B. >_>

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Personally, I think my wall is right on the border of technical skill. I've pretty much got everything else down, but frame intensive stuff like WDing and L-cancel? Er...not so much.

Oh and casual is actually hard to define. Some casuals are more...er...casual(?) than others? Some are fairly good, just need to polish their skills. Some couldn't K.O. a lvl. 1 Mr. Game and Watch (I've met a few. I almost cried)