Carolina Brawl Power Rankings [1/27] Breaking Bad PRs!! YAY!

[RaphaelRobo]

Ganon's way better than that.

The only problem I have is that, if my opponent's on their last stock, I start playing stupid and go for a sideB suicide KO.

 

[Stockfield]

Well that's not the character's fault.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

What are you talking about, that's totally the character's fault. If Ganon were a good fair balanced character, I'd have absolutely no trouble 4-stocking Esam and PP at the same time.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

DK is broke in P:M

 

[waldorf2007]

now I need to play this game :|

 

[stingers]

DKs not broke dont listen to him
his dash attacks pretty redic. tho

 

[Juno McGrath]

Dk is fine. Gannon is the only character thats really broken. '

actually, gannon as a character isnt really broken as his mix up game is REALLY broken

per say

Any character with a fifty fifty mixup in any smash game is too ****ing good. Period.

 

[Sushi-Man]

God damn I wanna play PM sooooo badly. Does anyone know if snake is good in the game?

 

[V1CE]

why is everyone so hype about project m

 

[stingers]

snakes aight. I use him on the side.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

So you're saying Ganon is better than Fox and Falco?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Any character with a fifty fifty mixup in any smash game is too ****ing good. Period.

I...what?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Snake is kinda butt in my opinion. His grenades suck (He can only throw one and since shield dropping takes longer you can't throw them as far since it takes longer for you ti pick them up), his u-tilt doesn't kill, his nair doesn't kill, he was just blech. His recovery is better though since it's always like you jumped beforehand and it gives you a constant hitbox and you can get off any time you want.

 

[Sneak8288]

Snake isn't bad. Just different. You can shield drop and wavedash the grenades. Up-b out of shield is viable. Ftilt sets up C4 stickies and you can combo into a kill. You can control space super easy as well since you can fake your C4 as well.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'm thinking I might main Ike instead. Every time I play as or against him, I feel like he's a better Ganondorf. I'd rather play Ganondorf, but I don't like the idea of playing one character when there's a strictly better version of him in the game.

 

[stingers]

Ikes slower then ganon honestly. Maybe if you used quick draw really intelligently with platforms he could be played faster but for the most part if you want speed and strength I'd take ganon

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That's the thing, though. Ike feels stronger, has better range, and I can move pretty quickly with quick draw. Ganon can suicide, which is fun, but Ike's strength and range give him a huge advantage. Plus, Ike's punishes (e.g. Fsmash) are a lot stronger. And, unlike Ganon, stage ledges don't screw over my recovery. Plus, every time I use Ike as if he were Ganon, I do better than I do with Ganon.

EDIT: Here's a list I came up with for reason's to play each character:

Ganon: His Jab is awesome, He's better at edgeguarding, he has a better recovery from far off stage, but near the stage Ike's seems better, and his Fair is really strong. He can juggle well with his Uair. He has a neutral B and Utilt that will never be used. His sideB often guarantees a follow up attack. Either before they hit the ground, or be techchasing. Ganon's has a Nair that I like a lot. I don't know if it's any better in P:M than it is in Melee, but I still like it. He also looks a lot cooler, and is slightly more fun to play.

Ike: All of Ike's attacks can actually be used, unlike a lot of Ganon's. His Fsmash is just as fast, but is a lot stronger. His Dsmash is faster, acts very similarly, and you can choose to only perform the first attack from it. His Ftilt has more range, Fair, and Bair all have better range, making them more useful for spacing. While they're slightly slower, Ganon's attacks are still pretty slow, so this doesn't matter much. His Nair covers a similar range to Ganon's Uair, but can't be used as well for juggling and edgeguarding. His quick draw allows him to get around more easily that Ganon, and being able to JC it means he won't get caught out of it often. His Fsmash can be used in the same situations as Ganon's neutral B and Utilt, and functions almost as well. He also has a counter.

 

[Juno McGrath]

I...what?

Side b is an unblockable dash command grab that has a fifty/fifty mixup, more than half of any of the options they can do are punishable with down b the other ones are punishable by simply side bing the opposite way.

Edit: raph I dont know if you read anything I posted but I never said Gannon was the best, just that his mixup from side b is broken making him potentially top 2 in my book. It's just way way too good and easy.

why is everyone so hype about project m

Best of brawl and the best of melee what's not to get hype about?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I figured when you meant broken, you meant better than those characters, since that's the typical definition for broken.

I have to agree, though, that his sideB is amazing. Landing it, from either the air or land, always results in a follow up. And usually a pretty good one. One thing I've done against my friends, although I don't know how well it would work against other people, is aerial sideB to dTilt to juggle to KO.

 

[Juno McGrath]

That's the one aspect of Ganon that's broken, he's tanky as ****, deals a ton of damage has great recovery potential and they gave him a fifty/fifty on side b, that to me at least is just a little too much. Wizard kick can set up for gimps or just straight up kill some characters around 70

The fact that he can land that move for free 99 percent of the time is OP. the only character I think that's better is fox or maybe falco.

Falco might be the best really.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

One of the devs said he thought Falco wouldn't be top tier once people get used to the new characters. It was only one person, but it's something to think about.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i think ike is a better ganon. the fact that you've realized that is good, raphael. played P:M today with taheem and tac. don't think my ganon or ike lost more than once. neither is bad, but i like ike's recovery a lot more than ganons.

i don't think it's much different than ganon getting a normal grab and having a guaranteed aerial from it for most of the cast in melee.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I agree with pretty much everything Chris said.

I actually noticed the Ike being a better Ganon a while a go, I was just in denial for a few weeks and tried to blame it on me being bad at this game.

 

[V1CE]

YOOOOOO did you know DDD can upsmash snake out of down throw if he buffers dash and jump cancel upsmash

 

[Bing]

Side b is an unblockable dash command grab that has a fifty/fifty mixup, more than half of any of the options they can do are punishable with down b the other ones are punishable by simply side bing the opposite way.

Edit: raph I dont know if you read anything I posted but I never said Gannon was the best, just that his mixup from side b is broken making him potentially top 2 in my book. It's just way way too good and easy.

I need a new tag -_-

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i have ike vids from before you were in the scene, raph. he was always the better ganon, since P:M was a young fledgling

I AM THE ORIGINAL GANONIKEEEEEE

EDIT: he's really like a hybrid of ganon and marth, which is pretty ****ing godlike in the end.

 

[Sneak8288]

LOL at unblockable grab. Every grab is unblockable. You can still tech side b so its not like the follow up is garunteed and you can still beat it with other moves. Its basically your normal tech chase setup and not really broken at all. I also feel that the Mother boys **** spacies for free. Lucas is the best char in the game lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i shouldve played sonic to see what the deal is there. there has to be a reason cam is playing him rather than falco..

i didn't really like what i saw from ness. my favorite part was that they gave the bat both sounds depending on where it hit. that mind****ed me a little when i heard the dull bat sound the first time lol.

sneak, do you think that lucas can "shine" oos as a useful tactic? i think the only time it'd be useful is for things like fadeback nairs that people think are safe. but that'd be hilarious to watch a falco shield pressure fadeback and then just get hit that way lol

 

[Sneak8288]

Idk, I think his nair would be better oos instead of down b, but the hitbox seems so good that it should work regardless. I would have to test it more

 

[Juno McGrath]

Teching in place, tech rolling away, not Teching are all covered by down b, Teching behind Ganon is covered by side b'ing again. Lol

The fact that no one else has a problem with this until I beat them using nothing but this is super lol to me

I think Ike might be good? But not nearly as good as Ganon imo, could be wrong though, been wrong before.

I think Ike's biggest advantage is that he has so many good options near the ledge and recovering. **** up gimping him and youll most likely die for it, that's pretty strong.

His biggest disadvantage at least in my opinion is that it's so easy to get inside and combo him.

Also I have had a combo video with moo for this game back when it was still in closed alpha and we had to steal it since were talking about old vids

 

[Bl@ckChris]

it's like a chaingrab...except without the guarantee of a regrab...so...yeah...

if ganon's broken for having this, then i guess sheik is beyond broken for being able to chaingrab on reaction.

if you could do this mixup ON REACTION then i might be on board with you. cause like...falcon can do this same thing with grabs ON REACTION and just plain not give a ****.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Oh I don't think Gannon is broken, I just think this one thing is broken.

I side b you at 10 percent let's say your playing falcon, you roll behind me, I regrab you with side b, you roll infront of me kind of near the ledge, I down be you, your flying off the stage, your at about maybe 35 to 45 percent, I edge guard you moderately well and kill you.

I do this three more times.

I'm excited to see really good Lucas and ness play, that will be really interesting those characters are really solid

 

[Sneak8288]

That's still just a normal tech chase situation. There isn't really anything special or broken about it. You basically get the same thing from dashing and down throw with alot of characters. Either way, I don't really think it falls into the category of 50/50 mixup since its not really a mixup at all compared to a tech chase. It can't be any worse than tope chasing. Also teching in place kinda makes ganon have to use a bit more prediction or anticipation of a tech in place similar to sheik tope chasing or your else your not gonna have enough time to react to it before the opponent being able to buffer a roll or just hit ganon out of the side b.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i can imagine tech in place shine being the same problem it is for topechasing for me...

and yeah, that tends to be the nature of power characters reading people. or anyone reading people. don't get grabbed, and don't get read.

 

[Uncle]

All I care about is the fact that Bowser is no longer horrible. Realize who I am, and realize what this fact means for your safety.

 

[@TKbreezy]

Bowser is some bull****. its like they got a little crazy when it came to him.

being able to cancel your ground Down-B? really?

 

[big sleep]

can't wait to **** on u guys in that wanna-be melee

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ganon is worse than DK. Ike...idk. Ike is realy good and really safe, but his recovery doesn't have super armor anymore so it is a lot easier to **** with it.

Fox is obviously godlike still, but they nerfed his u-throw at low %s so I can't like U-throw uair against sheik.

Sheik is still godlike because her tech chases are even easier now with pivot grabbing. Her d-throw still CGs people and her B-throw is amazing.

Pikachu got a lot better merely because of B-reversed thunder....so fast and so stupid.

Wolf is REALLY interesting, I haven't quite figured him out yet. He seems like he has A LOT of potential, but it is definitely harder to combo with him than the other 2 spaceys.

I want my Samus :'(

 

[Juno McGrath]

Yo not all characters have moved that come out in two/three frames


:wariomain:

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Alright, I just spent a lot of time messing around with Ganon's sideB. Here's what I think about it:

It always guarantees a follow up. However, this is no different from his Dthrow. The main difference is you can chain grab any character with it, on reaction. However, there are a few differences than this and Sheik's Dthrow. First is the initial dash. This means you're committing to it well in advance, and your opponent can take advantage of this. On the other hand, you can also start the chain grab in the air, which is a pretty big boost. If the opponent techs the sideB, you have a guaranteed follow up sideB. However, if they land, things become a bit trickier. They can roll, get up, or attack. Rolling behind you or getting up result in a regrab. If you position yourself outside of getup attack range, then you're also guaranteed a regrab. The problem with this is they can just roll away from you, and you can't regrab them (I don't think you can reach them in time with Wizard's Foot, either). If you shield, then it's an easy regrab after a getup attack, and you can SH SideB anything else. However, unless you're insanely fast, they have enough time to throw out something quick, so could stop the SH sideB. Otherwise, you can keep grabbing. Also, if there's a platform above you, they get placed on it. This is a pretty nice situation or Ganondorf (his opponent's above him AND in knockdown), and guarantees a follow up, but it doesn't guarantee a chain grab.

My conclusion is, the move is extremely good, but given that it's on Ganondorf, it means it won't make him broken. You also have to find an opportunity to hit with the move, and given it's speed, it's more difficult than it sounds. It will make him pretty good, though. Not to mention, all those guys who had a big advantage on FD aren't going to be taking you there anymore.