Cancelling landing lag with a turnip throw may be gone?

[Hazzuh]

Apparently they have patched out the ability to cancel your landing lag with an item through:

all landing cancels greninja's Shadow sneak, peach and TL/Links bomb cancel with bomb pull i was told by the socal top players who went to the west hollywood wii u smash event and a friend of mine who plays link told me he wasn't able to do it, but you can z-drop without a laggy zair now and now your hook shot drops to the ground like in brawl not like in the 3ds where it shoots and comes back without dropping

So in regards to the item toss Landing-lag cancel:

Sorry, but Scizor is not a troll. Unfortunately, I can confirm it is true that the Wii U version doesn't have it. I went to a tournament last night in Toronto, one of the players got a copy of the game early (Nintendo has been giving some members of the community early copies up here in Canada, particularly members who have done a great service to their major smash communities. The only I can mention is Pidge, since she already made it public and posted a photo of her with the box on her FB profile). They let the participants play friendlies (8-player mode is balls to the wall chaotic, btw), but the conditions were we couldn't take video nor pictures of game footage to avoid getting in crap with Nintendo. Hence, I have no footage to show, and I also can't reveal anything besides character data.

I guess you'll all have to take our word for it, but I can confirm: Unfortunately, no item toss landing-lag cancel exists in Wii U. I dunno if the big N is planning to update this through an online update: they did say all the 3DS tactics would work in Wii U in the direct. But since the game isn't supposed to be officially released in NA yet, we'll have to wait and see whether this remains permanent or not.

Thought it would be worth creating a thread to let you guys know / see if anyone knew any more? Wouldn't be too surprising if Nintendo were to patch this out of the game, it's a real shame though.

 

[Meru.]

No surprise at all, this was to be expected. While I think turnip tossing is a very strong tool, she can do without it perfectly fine with shorthop and floating fairs.

Thanks for the news though. I'm definitely going to stop using this now. Is there any news on floating aerials not staling? Even if knockback staling has been greatly weakened in this game, I would like it if it would stay.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Well the 1.0.4 patch is going to hit this month. I bet it's included there.

 

[Smockers]

Damn! I've been incorporating this into my game too... Now I'll have to just forget about using it completely :/ I was just recently exploring how you can input the throw before the down-b input to change the direction of the throw, gives her a lot of options. That's a shame. Guess I should've seen this coming eventually

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I bet there will be a lot of changes many people will be unhappy with.
Good thing about Peach is that this will most likely be the only negative change.

 

[byebye]

I think the change is fine, we just have to adjust!

 

[yungunr2]

Curious...do you think they removed her instant turnip pulling as well?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Curious...do you think they removed her instant turnip pulling as well?

Unlikely since it's exclusive to Peach. The item throw cancel affected multiple characters and was way more useful and easier to do.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I don't like this patching thing. Nerfing characters who don't need to be nerfed.

 

[byebye]

I wouldn't call it straight out nerf. nerf could be lower the damage or knockback of moves. or lowering the range of hitbox. or maybe adding frames to lags or moves.

I treat it more like a bug fix. characters should have landing lag when doing something aerial. in general.
but peach, link and TL by passes that rule due to some bug.

so a choice would be, to fix that bug. or give every character that similar behavior.
I believe Greninja also has that some kind of trick in the current version. and that too I believe is being patched out.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Just popping in to say ledge cancel pulling is also gone, sorry guys.

Source: being completely unable to do it on the Wii U version of the game but no issues on the 3DS.

Also the interaction between floats and aerials not staling is also fixed.

 

[Smockers]

Just popping in to say ledge cancel pulling is also gone, sorry guys.

Source: being completely unable to do it on the Wii U version of the game but no issues on the 3DS.

Also the interaction between floats and aerials not staling is also fixed.

Ummmm

Are you actually being legit or

Wow. That would be honestly ****ty. I don't wanna believe this. I mean, you can still pull turnips when the opponent is away, but this cuts out so damn much of her options. Ledge-cancel turnip pulling has been present in both Melee and Brawl. It's barely even a glitch considering that. Pleaseeee

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, it's 100% legit, i tested several times last night, with moving platforms etc. It's gone. She just stops and completes the move at the ledge.

I can do it with 100% consistency on 3DS (not that.. it's particularly hard to do) so i know I'm not just missing the input.

 

[Smockers]

What a shame. It had some really interesting properties this time around too, what with being able to do it out of a walk, dash, or run, or even from the air by using your momentum. I also used it all the time for edgeguarding because you can use it to quickly z-drop or throw turnips from the ledge.

I guess her turnip pull game is effectively like Melee's now, as ledge-pulling isn't utilized that much in Melee. The logical thing to do to compensate for this would be to decrease the big start-up lag that her down-b has now, but I'm not holding out for that. What did Peach mains ever do to you Sakurai :/

 

[yungunr2]

Just popping in to say ledge cancel pulling is also gone, sorry guys.

Source: being completely unable to do it on the Wii U version of the game but no issues on the 3DS.

Also the interaction between floats and aerials not staling is also fixed.

Yikes even more bad news, well I'll hold my judgement till i play the wii u version. I mean surely they are going through the same procedure with every other character, so we shall see.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

For all the friendly Peach mains here who were stubbornly refusing to believe that this could happen and throwing a fire under me for thinking things would get fixed:

 

[LordShade67]

The turnip nerfs we probably had coming, mostly the LL Cancel Turnip. And the Links were also hit apparently, so it's not just Peach. Losing Ledge cancel turnips kinda sucks if legit, so we'll have to play smarter with pulling Turnips out now.

As for Floating Aerials staling, the only move actually affected by it is FAir since, you know, KO move and all. Maybe NAir and BAir, but NAir at least has its versatility still, and I dunno about this iteration BAir.

Just my .02.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

They took out the instant turnip pull as well?? That's like a staple technique. How unnecessary. Poor peach. I'm going to have to make a section in the dictionary for all the stuff they patched out. There's just too much.
Patches take out all the fun.

 

[Meru.]

These were all bugs. Bugs are unintended so it makes sense they got removed. These bugs were in her favor, but she is perfectly fine without any of thes bugs because

• Fair is still safe when shorthopped or floated back. Sometimes opponents cant even shieldgrab a dropped Fair because of its crazy range.
• Knockback staling has been drastically reduced from Brawl... seriously. I tend to use shorthop Fair a lot, even more than floating Fair, and even when it does like 12% it still kills at very early percents.
• She never relied much on turnip ledging.

Sure, they helped a bit but she has more than enough to compensate for the removal of her bugs, the nerfs don't hit her hard at all. At the moment she is pretty much guaranteed to be a top 15 characters and she's a contender for top 10 so she's relatively a strong character. As long as she doesn't receive any furthermore or characters get buffed to the extend she becomes underwhelming, she'll be perfectly fine. I doubt either possibilty is going to happen, and the top tiers are probably receiving some nerfs. Let's hope she doesn't receive any nerfs.

Yeah, it's 100% legit, i tested several times last night, with moving platforms etc. It's gone. She just stops and completes the move at the ledge.

I can do it with 100% consistency on 3DS (not that.. it's particularly hard to do) so i know I'm not just missing the input.

Thanks for reporting the changes! Do you happen to own the game or something or did you just play a pre-released version somewhere?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

These were all bugs. Bugs are unintended so it makes sense they got removed. These bugs were in her favor, but she is perfectly fine without any of these bugs

When do I pull turnips out now against fast enemies? ;_;
Nah, you are mostly right, but I think ledge cancel turnip pull was really useful under pressure.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

For all the friendly Peach mains here who were stubbornly refusing to believe that this could happen and throwing a fire under me for thinking things would get fixed:

Lol sorry, you were right and I will admit to it.



I am thoroughly sad the floating aerials stale now though. That's going to hurt more than the turnip stuff.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Thanks for reporting the changes! Do you happen to own the game or something or did you just play a pre-released version somewhere?

i got the game early, there was a big thread about it last week in the general boards, Supreme Dirt and I are roommates

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Thanks for reporting the changes! Do you happen to own the game or something or did you just play a pre-released version somewhere?

That thing directly above me. I'd be happy to test anything else you guys want tested within reason, but i think i've already tested all the known bugs and I'm pretty far from being Peach main (which is funny to me ecause i play against one all the time, you'd think i'd have picked up a bit of the character but NOPE).

Just trying to clear up as much of the misinformation about glitches as I can.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Hey, that's a lovely thing for you to do, Supreme. And it was the active patching of the game that lead to me not really trying a lot of the bugs too much, outside of ledge canceling turnips since it's a habit from Brawl. XD

 

[EOE]

Let's just hope for some actual character changes and not just bug fixes from the rest of the patch. ='(

I'm starting to think we should keep these techs a secret from Nintendo in the future. Haha.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ Supreme Dirt : Thank you very much for your input! It's unfortunate these "good" glitches got removed, but Peach is still a great character nonetheless.

Did Peach get any other modification? I'm particularly interested in vegetable-pulling speed.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

@ Supreme Dirt Did Peach get any other modification? I'm particularly interested in vegetable-pulling speed.

No. There do not seem to be any other changes to Peach, of course i haven't done a comparison on percents of moves (her aerials all do the same damage as 3DS though). I don't think this has the balance patch sakurai's been talking about lately.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ack, I had just started to get used to using the Turnip Cancel for follow ups after Fair/Momentum Cancelling

I'm not surprised they've patched this though. What does surprise (and worry) me is that they're taking out Turnip ledge pull - why would they remove it? I wonder if it's because it allows you to pull up Heavy Turnips with no penalty...

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm not surprised they've patched this though. What does surprise (and worry) me is that they're taking out Turnip ledge pull - why would they remove it? I wonder if it's because it allows you to pull up Heavy Turnips with no penalty...

That's... an interesting possibility, actually.

These nerfs are a darn shame, but Peach can still hold her own without them, so it's hard to be too upset.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

There's one thing that struck me while I was thinking about it. If they got rid of the ability for us to ledge cancel turnips, does this mean she can now pluck turnips in spite of wind effects like Mario's gust cape, Fludd, and other such hitboxes and remain on the stage?

 

[Twinkie Toadstool]

Were these nerfs really necessary. They never made her over powered. They were useful but it wasn't that beneficial. If they wanted to make nerfs necessary then they should nerf Shiek, Rosalina, Greninja, and Yoshi. Peach is good and high tier, but she didn't need any nerfs.
ugh *crys for seven years*

 

[Yackabean]

The reaction to bomb / turnip cancel has been mixed across all chars who could do it. It's kind of funny.

Peach : "We'll manage without it we have a good air game bla bla bla"

Link : "Back to Triforce tier trash"

Toon Link : "WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?!"

It's great to see all the peach mains calmly not mind it being gone xD

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

The reaction to bomb / turnip cancel has been mixed across all chars who could do it. It's kind of funny.

Peach : "We'll manage without it we have a good air game bla bla bla"

Link : "Back to Triforce tier trash"

Toon Link : "WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?!"

It's great to see all the peach mains calmly not mind it being gone xD

We do mind, but there is no use complaining about it. It's not like complaining is going to change anything.
Just adapt and move on :3

 

[EdreesesPieces]

To be fair Toon Link and Link used this a million times more than us... our only aerial with lag is fair..i actually used the turnip lag cancels so little i'd rather it be gone to make those two matchups that much easier. It's really the turnip edge cancel pluck that nerfs us more so.

There's one thing that struck me while I was thinking about it. If they got rid of the ability for us to ledge cancel turnips, does this mean she can now pluck turnips in spite of wind effects like Mario's gust cape, Fludd, and other such hitboxes and remain on the stage?

That's good thinking! To taketh away they must give something else in return. I will have to try it out.

They are obviously learning these glitches from smash community. Part of me wants to organize a team to post fake glitches and techniques to waste Nintendo's time and frustrate them while they try to patch things out.

 

[StarForce]

I haven't updated yet but now I see what awaits me.Turnip cancel is something I use half the times depending the match. Stale move negation is used in every match or nearly every one of mine. I'm not bothered much for the pulling cancel glitch near an edge. That happened to me one by cheer luck but I don't use that technique. I guess Peachy is now more fair play?