California Legalizes Gay Marriage

[MojoMan]

I brought it up because you didn't seem to know what a fact meant, especially if you think a fact can be wrong lol.



Those can most certainly be wrong


It can be prove by win rates and how often a team wins over all. You can easily determine which team is the better team.



Yes there is. Console power, accessibility to the console, price range, and game line up. All these would be taken into consideration.

It can, I just did it.




No because theres no logical reason to believe in it, no more then say for Unicorns or Fairies

And that, my friend, I think was rather obnoxious. Every single thing you stated as fact can easily be opinionated. For the game consoles, what if one has more accessibility and memory and price range, but the one without all that stuf, you think, has better games than the "better" game console. You cannot prove which team has more overall skill because a win or a loss can be made through a simple fluke. You could follow the data, or what happened in actuality.

 

[iankobe]

No Johns, I don't care if they're human they're a team and if they can't win nearly as much as another team guess what during that season they weren't as good as the other team.

Plus you also have to take into account their over all record not just 1 seasons record. If a team has a record of playing very well all season but they squander during 1 thats not going to take away from their good team standing.

I don't even follow basketball but I'm assuming you took two very even teams to try and trick me right? Probably.

My reasoning works though you compare their wins over all from various seasons and make an objective answer as to which is better. It's not hard it just takes time.


I could careless about religion, faith isn't necessarily a good thing it can often times be a bad thing.

As much as you careless about religion, they'd still care for you.

 

[Crimson King]

All right, enough religious bickering. None of you will get through to someone who is indoctrinated since birth. It's foolish to try and just ruining the topic further.

All I really have to say to machspeed is exactly what I said to the other guy:

How would you react if the entire world was always gay (somehow) and heterosexuality was the minority. You can't marry a girl you love because EVERYONE thinks it's gross. I doubt you'd be so adamant. Plus, the bible do you actually read what the bible did condone? Mary was 14 years old when she was forced into marriage to Joseph and gave birth to a child. This is not to start another debate, of course, but you have to realize your audience will not be interested in this as a subject matter when it has many instances of pedophilia. Also, I am stopping this debate now, despite the fact that you essentially spurred them to fight. It's like me going into a topic for Civil Rights and saying Black skin is a sign of a curse.

 

[Machspeed]

All right, enough religious bickering. None of you will get through to someone who is indoctrinated since birth. It's foolish to try and just ruining the topic further.

All I really have to say to machspeed is exactly what I said to the other guy:

How would you react if the entire world was always gay (somehow) and heterosexuality was the minority. You can't marry a girl you love because EVERYONE thinks it's gross. I doubt you'd be so adamant. Plus, the bible do you actually read what the bible did condone? Mary was 14 years old when she was forced into marriage to Joseph and gave birth to a child. This is not to start another debate, of course, but you have to realize your audience will not be interested in this as a subject matter when it has many instances of pedophilia. Also, I am stopping this debate now, despite the fact that you essentially spurred them to fight. It's like me going into a topic for Civil Rights and saying Black skin is a sign of a curse.

Enough with the hypothetical talk.

Notice the title the "VIRGIN" Mary, meaning she never had sex. Jesus was just conceived by her, without any means of such contact.

This is no case of pedophilia or anything of the sort.
There is no accurate information on exactly how old Mary was, unless you would like to find me some evidence.

How'd I start this? I came in, stated my opinion, and that's how it flared up. Am I supposed to hold my tongue and not say a word even though I disagree with it?

And no, it's nothing like walking into a Civil Rights topic and saying black skin is a sign of a curse.

 

[Goldberg]

Fine by me.
This is pointless explaining to an athiest, but I'll bite.

Yeah, but God also made man and woman for a reason.
It wasn't Adam and Steve who were put on the Earth together.

The first thing on Jesus' list was relieving human's of sins, and allowing them to go to the celestial kingdom. Being homosexual is considered a sin in the religion. Jesus does love us all and wants us to go to heaven, but if we continue to sin and disobey the word of God, we cannot join Him.

Claiming ridiculous things like more people are pro-marriage around the globe versus anti, without any sort of evidence is really out of it. People do think like me, so no, it's not just me and a small group of friends who think this way.

And no, reading the Bible did not make me join the big Athiest bandwagon which has been sweeping lately.

I don't think that an attempt to explain anything to anyone should be pointless.

I see you brought up some "Bible Facts", that you can rely on without any proof or evidence outside of the context they are written on, you ask for evidence from us when there has never been proof for those?.

On the subject of you having second foundations for your beliefs with "lots of people believing it too", does that counter what I asked you?:

Why deny (or believe in denying) people the right to be united?.

I don't believe faith and religion should be tied together, religions impose rules by manipulating faith. Why not just let people live happily, just like they would want you to live?.

Edit: Sorry for continuing the discussion, if this stops I'm fine with it.

 

[Machspeed]

I don't think that an attempt to explain anything to anyone should be pointless.

I see you brought up some "Bible Facts", that you can rely on without any proof or evidence outside of the context they are written on, you ask for evidence from us when there has never been proof for those?.

On the subject of you having second foundations for your beliefs with "lots of people believing it too", does that counter what I asked you?:

Why deny (or believe in denying) people the right to be united?.

I don't believe faith and religion should be tied together, religions impose rules by manipulating faith. Why not just let people live happily, just like they would want you to live?.

Religions is not all bad, rules, and regulations.

It actually feels good to have others interested in things you are, to know that people care for you just seeing you around the Church and would like to greet you every time they pass. You know how many people many friends through Churches and the likes? How many kids make their first friends doing extra-curricular activities with other little ones around the Church grounds?

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Religion is based strictly on faith. I cannot provide you any evidence that you would like to see, if that's what your after.

If my Lord did not want it to be so, then it must be wrong, so I will stay away from that path.

EDIT: Since he had a question, I'll end it here. Just wanted to make sure everything went answered before we stopped this.

 

[Crimson King]

Enough with the hypothetical talk.

Notice the title the "VIRGIN" Mary, meaning she never had sex. Jesus was just conceived by her, without any means of such contact.

This is no case of pedophilia or anything of the sort.
There is no accurate information on exactly how old Mary was, unless you would like to find me some evidence.

How'd I start this? I came in, stated my opinion, and that's how it flared up. Am I supposed to hold my tongue and not say a word even though I disagree with it?

And no, it's nothing like walking into a Civil Rights topic and saying black skin is a sign of a curse.

Lot's daughters, his YOUNG daughters, got him drunk and slept with him. Mary was living in Nazareth and Bethlehem in a place where dowries still exist. Women didn't, and still don't, have the any rights to chose who they get married to or when there. It was simply the wish of their father. Finally, Mary gave birth to Jesus while a virgin. The bible never said she just abstained from sex from her husband her whole life.

Actually it is. No one here was taught to be gay. I wasn't taught to be straight. I just always found women attractive.

 

[Machspeed]

Lot's daughters, his YOUNG daughters, got him drunk and slept with him. Mary was living in Nazareth and Bethlehem in a place where dowries still exist. Women didn't, and still don't, have the any rights to chose who they get married to or when there. It was simply the wish of their father. Finally, Mary gave birth to Jesus while a virgin. The bible never said she just abstained from sex from her husband her whole life.

Actually it is. No one here was taught to be gay. I wasn't taught to be straight. I just always found women attractive.

Mary stayed a Virgin all her life, and while the Bible does not say she didn't have sex with her husband, considering she gave birth to the son of God, I doubt she'd want to do something else with another man.

I believe the spread of it has to do alot with the Media, as with alot of other customs. Just look at Tila Tequila for God's sake, my 4 year old niece was scrolling through channels and turned to it; something I'd definitely not want her laying eyes on.

 

[iankobe]

All right, enough religious bickering. None of you will get through to someone who is indoctrinated since birth. It's foolish to try and just ruining the topic further.

All I really have to say to machspeed is exactly what I said to the other guy:

How would you react if the entire world was always gay (somehow) and heterosexuality was the minority. You can't marry a girl you love because EVERYONE thinks it's gross. I doubt you'd be so adamant. Plus, the bible do you actually read what the bible did condone? Mary was 14 years old when she was forced into marriage to Joseph and gave birth to a child. This is not to start another debate, of course, but you have to realize your audience will not be interested in this as a subject matter when it has many instances of pedophilia. Also, I am stopping this debate now, despite the fact that you essentially spurred them to fight. It's like me going into a topic for Civil Rights and saying Black skin is a sign of a curse.

WTF? What's your point? And there's no "what IF". We're talking about the fact here. Why don't you ask what if Sakurai made Brawl Melee 2.0? There's no point of talking about it and I just don't see where you're going.

 

[Aesir]

And that, my friend, I think was rather obnoxious. Every single thing you stated as fact can easily be opinionated. For the game consoles, what if one has more accessibility and memory and price range, but the one without all that stuf, you think, has better games than the "better" game console. You cannot prove which team has more overall skill because a win or a loss can be made through a simple fluke. You could follow the data, or what happened in actuality.

It's not obnoxious but who cares if it was or not?

However the Sports Scenario you have to judge if the flukes will make an impact it's no different then how regional PR panelists rank players in their region the weigh the over performance of the player, who they lost to who they won against and compare it to other players in their region.

It would be no different with sports teams.

Game console: This is probably the toughest thing in all honesty for the simple reason that many people look for different things in their gaming consoles. Hence why I covered all those options.

But I never once said an opinion can neither be right or wrong, an opinion can however be wrong.

go back to my earlier post you'll see I said "An opinion can be wrong" my point is to refute the argument that opinions cannot be wrong as a fact, because that is clearly not the case.

 

[SkylerOcon]

This has turned into another flame war. Machspeed and Kobe. You two are what give Christians a bad name. You two are specifically ignoring the points given by other people and responding with a flame, or claiming that what somebody else said was a flame. You have never given one shred of proof beyond 'god said so', which is a weak argument simply because of the fact that not everybody believes in god.

CK, Aesir, and the rest on the pro-gay side, you guys are only exemplifying why people who have religions beliefs dislike us. I've seen you guys insult Christianity many times and then get mad at Mach and Kobe for insulting you.

Related to the argument:

Okay. Firstly, we've always had a lot of natural disasters. It just so happens that you've been paying more attention to the news lately because your growing up, Mach. So don't say 'zomg teh worlds horrible cuz nobodE beeleevz in mai gawd!1 luk at all teh deth!' because things like this have always happened.

Secondly, I challenge you. Give me one shred of evidence outside of the religion argument (as I said before, not everybody believes in it so that argument is automatically null) that could prove that gays could possibly inconvenience anyone in any way.

 

[Machspeed]

This has turned into another flame war. Machspeed and Kobe. You two are what give Christians a bad name. You two are specifically ignoring the points given by other people and responding with a flame, or claiming that what somebody else said was a flame. You have never given one shred of proof beyond 'god said so', which is a weak argument simply because of the fact that not everybody believes in god.

CK, Aesir, and the rest on the pro-gay side, you guys are only exemplifying why people who have religions beliefs dislike us. I've seen you guys insult Christianity many times and then get mad at Mach and Kobe for insulting you.

Related to the argument:

Okay. Firstly, we've always had a lot of natural disasters. It just so happens that you've been paying more attention to the news lately because your growing up, Mach. So don't say 'zomg teh worlds horrible cuz nobodE beeleevz in mai gawd!1 luk at all teh deth!' because things like this have always happened.

Secondly, I challenge you. Give me one shred of evidence outside of the religion argument (as I said before, not everybody believes in it so that argument is automatically null) that could prove that gays could possibly inconvenience anyone in any way.

We are not what give Christians a bad name, we are simply defending our religion when people are speaking ill of it, which is exactly what we are to do if someone tries to demean Christianity. Skyler, I'll say this again, THIS IS THE POOL ROOM. This is not the Debate Hall. Hell, I'm in another thread on this very section of the forum speaking of the NBA playoffs; this thread was not meant to be taken seriously. If this thread was not meant to be debated in such a way, why am I being questioned so much for just presenting my views? We should be able to all discuss this like adults without having to mindlessly argue who's opinion is right.

Dude, we've been having tornado's hit GEORGIA, now.
I can't tell you how much of a rarity that is.
Also, I've seen people filming videos (notably the BME pain olympics, 2 girls 1 cup, even a guy getting BEHEADED in Iraq) and putting videos on the web. Why would people put such disturbing videos on the web? What, so on my little cousin's way to play some games online, he can go visit these sites and be scarred for life just because his friends told him to go watch it?
We are seizing countries in the world who used to be at peace for centuries and wrecking their systems. The world is a much more vile place than it was a couple decades ago, you must learn to accept this.

I don't care for arguments, and I don't care for providing evidence as to why they inconvenience others. Like I said, I don't like it because it's MY religion, you guys are free to do as however you please. I don't have to prove myself to anyone but myself, call me close-minded, or whatever, but that's just how I feel.

This thread should be moved to the debate hall if that's the intention of it, as I see no point in arguing in a room that was never meant to be shown in such a light.

 

[Aesir]

CK, Aesir, and the rest on the pro-gay side, you guys are only exemplifying why people who have religions beliefs dislike us. I've seen you guys insult Christianity many times and then get mad at Mach and Kobe for insulting you.

1. I never got mad at him ever.

2. I'm very religiously tolerant person, I just feel religion is like any idea and should be treated as such.

 

[SkylerOcon]

We are not what give Christians a bad name, we are simply defending our religion when people are speaking ill of it, which is exactly what we are to do if someone tries to demean Christianity. Skyler, I'll say this again, THIS IS THE POOL ROOM. This is not the Debate Hall. Hell, I'm in another thread on this very section of the forum speaking of the NBA playoffs; this thread was not meant to be taken seriously. If this thread was not meant to be debated in such a way, why am I being questioned so much for just presenting my views? We should be able to all discuss this like adults without having to mindlessly argue who's opinion is right.

Dude, we've been having tornado's hit GEORGIA, now.
I can't tell you how much of a rarity that is.
Also, I've seen people filming videos (notably the BME pain olympics, 2 girls 1 cup, even a guy getting BEHEADED in Iraq) and putting videos on the web. Why would people put such disturbing videos on the web? What, so on my little cousin's way to play some games online, he can go visit these sites and be scarred for life just because his friends told him to go watch it?
We are seizing countries in the world who used to be at peace for centuries and wrecking their systems. The world is a much more vile place than it was a couple decades ago, you must learn to accept this.

I don't care for arguments, and I don't care for providing evidence as to why they inconvenience others. Like I said, I don't like it because it's MY religion, you guys are free to do as however you please. I don't have to prove myself to anyone but myself, call me close-minded, or whatever, but that's just how I feel.

This thread should be moved to the debate hall if that's the intention of it, as I see no point in arguing in a room that was never meant to be shown in such a light.

Well then leave the thread. You're constantly saying things that you think to be true and expect us not to speak our minds about it. That makes no sense.

If you don't want to debate, then don't post here. The Pool Room is commonly where people start getting into debates on the SWF. You're entitled to your opinion, but don't post it and expect everybody to agree and not try to start a debate over it.

1. I never got mad at him ever.

2. I'm very religiously tolerant person, I just feel religion is like any idea and should be treated as such.

Oops. I meant to put Pink Reaper, but I guess your name was in my head since you had posted last. My bad. You weren't that bad about it really.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Personally, I'm against gay marriage.

Well, it's considered an abomination to my religion, first of all, and I can't believe the world has changed so much in a couple decades. A couple years back, all this wasn't hitting the news so frequently... sure there was an uprising or two, but nothing this rampant.

The world has done fine for centuries with just a man and woman getting married...

Anyway, just my two cents. It's not my life anyhow, so I can't make others' decisions for them.

Ok, this post confused me.

It can be easily explained that progressively more rapid changes happen as humans become more educated and free spirited and realize they don't have to sit idly while their faces stamped upon by some higher authority, apparent or not (progression may vary worldwide).

Oh yeah, the world has "done fine" with other monstrosities against human rights that have, as far as human history is concerned, only recently been developed upon. Read: women's rights.

Finally, you throw out the word "abomination" and throw up the meaningless "opinion" and "religion" shields and honestly expect people to not get offended. Why are people constantly presenting the cop out argument "God moves in mysterious ways" to justify such stances? If you really can't come up with your own half substantiated reasoning then there's probably some niggling doubt in the back of your head that maybe this issue isn't as world breaking as you've convinced yourself it is, and have to resort to weak curtains of excuses like yours.

Since you seem to be content with people giving their two cents, I have some for you. You're an absolute tard, and a presumptuous tard at that. Lord knows the fabric of reality will collapse and gay marriage will be legalized everywhere before people like you admit fault upon themselves, but don't worry, that's just my highly subjective opinion.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Oops. I meant to put Pink Reaper, but I guess your name was in my head since you had posted last. My bad. You weren't that bad about it really.

Im usually very religiously tolerant as well seeing as how almost all of my family is made up of devout Catholics. However it really gets me when someone says "This is wrong because my religion says so" especially when it comes to matter of individual rights. There's supposed to be a separation of church and state, so the fact that so many states are trampling on the rights of people simply for being born different makes me angry.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Im usually very religiously tolerant as well seeing as how almost all of my family is made up of devout Catholics. However it really gets me when someone says "This is wrong because my religion says so" especially when it comes to matter of individual rights. There's supposed to be a separation of church and state, so the fact that so many states are trampling on the rights of people simply for being born different makes me angry.

It's still not fair to do what you were doing. You were being unnecessarily rude to Mach.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I just read through all these new posts that appeared in these past few hours, and lots of the anti-gay marriage people just ignored most points. Ignoring Eor was the most obvious.

 

[iankobe]

I just read through all these new posts that appeared in these past few hours, and lots of the anti-gay marriage people just ignored most points. Ignoring Eor was the most obvious.

OK. I'll make a point then.

Think of it this way. Marriage, is meant for a man and a woman. Nothing else. Who says so?
Reason why?

Well. Just think about it. Do you think two guys having sex is right? I mean, is that even the right way to have sex? Or, is that how sex is SUPPOSED to be?

You may have your own point of views, but I don't see how same-sex marriage is right.

Its just so wrong.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Its not about sex, its about marriage. Personally, I don't think anyone should ever have sex. Have you ever actually just WATCHED porn? Its not sexy, its not hot, its hilarious. Its like watching someone try and fit a square peg into a round hole, people were just designed wrong for sex

 

[iankobe]

Its not about sex, its about marriage. Personally, I don't think anyone should ever have sex. Have you ever actually just WATCHED porn? Its not sexy, its not hot, its hilarious. Its like watching someone try and fit a square peg into a round hole, people were just designed wrong for sex

Marriage leads into sex. At least its what's is meant for.

But...I actually don't agree with you with the porn situation... And I wonder how old you are actually.

 

[Deleted member]

What kinda freaky **** are you watching?

 

[iankobe]

What kinda freaky **** are you watching?

...thats what I was thinking too.

 

[Reyairia]

OK. I'll make a point then.

Think of it this way. Marriage, is meant for a man and a woman. Nothing else. Who says so?
Reason why?

Well. Just think about it. Do you think two guys having sex is right? I mean, is that even the right way to have sex? Or, is that how sex is SUPPOSED to be?

You may have your own point of views, but I don't see how same-sex marriage is right.

Its just so wrong.

People doing what they want is what I consider "right."
I don't understand why you think you can decide what people doing in their bedroom is "right" or "wrong" if it doesn't hurt anyone.
I don't even believe in good or evil - making me a much stronger atheist than most. I just don't believe life needs a god to make miracles, so I find the entity of one useless.

If it's physically possible, why not?
Not to mention that 90% of arguments against same-sex marriage can be applied and were applied to the debate against interracial marriages. Ask anyone that was around back then.

I find it "morally wrong" for you to deny people of their pursuit of happiness.

(I also find it absolutely ridiculous that often the religious deny global warming and when things go to **** they blame it on a god.

The world is not going to **** because a god said so, it's because people like you drive hummers, chug the gas down, make global warming, global warming causes droughts, famines and ****, poor people then get desperate for any income, that income comes from... criminal concepts. It's not a god, its YOU, ****tards)

 

[Blackshadow]

Lot's daughters, his YOUNG daughters, got him drunk and slept with him. Mary was living in Nazareth and Bethlehem in a place where dowries still exist. Women didn't, and still don't, have the any rights to chose who they get married to or when there. It was simply the wish of their father. Finally, Mary gave birth to Jesus while a virgin. The bible never said she just abstained from sex from her husband her whole life.

Mary stayed a Virgin all her life, and while the Bible does not say she didn't have sex with her husband, considering she gave birth to the son of God, I doubt she'd want to do something else with another man.

The bolded part is what Machspeed didn't address in his post. I'd like to see his response, if its possible to indiscreetly condone pedophilia, ****, incest AND lack of women's rights. This'll be interesting.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Marriage leads into sex. At least its what's is meant for.

But...I actually don't agree with you with the porn situation... And I wonder how old you are actually.

Marriage is just a license that allows for greater tax exemptions. By disallowing homosexuals to get married, your essentially disallowing them those rights, which in and of its self I believe is unconstitutional.

And yeah, sex really is ******** to watch. Seriously, go watch some(I assume your old enough, if your not, gtfo the internet and get to bed its like 1 am) and try and suppress your baser sexual nature and just look whats happening. It may or may not destroy your ability to ever watch porn with a straight face again(It also helps when the say extremely hilarious things)

Also, Im of legal porn watching age in my state, thats all you need to know(as if you couldn't find out my age by looking at my profile >_>)

 

[iankobe]

People doing what they want is what I consider "right."
I don't understand why you think you can decide what people doing in their bedroom is "right" or "wrong" if it doesn't hurt anyone.
I don't even believe in good or evil - making me a much stronger atheist than most. I just don't believe life needs a god to make miracles, so I find the entity of one useless.

If it's physically possible, why not?
Not to mention that 90% of arguments against same-sex marriage can be applied and were applied to the debate against interracial marriages. Ask anyone that was around back then.

I find it "morally wrong" for you to deny people of their pursuit of happiness.

(I also find it absolutely ridiculous that often the religious deny global warming and when things go to **** they blame it on a god.

The world is not going to **** because a god said so, it's because people like you drive hummers, chug the gas down, make global warming, global warming causes droughts, famines and ****, poor people then get desperate for any income, that income comes from... criminal concepts. It's not a god, its YOU, ****tards)

WOWO WOWOWOWOW.

HANG ON a second man. No need to say "YOU PEOPLE" Drive hummers, chug the GAS DOWN?

Now wtf is that all about? Now you're blaming whoever that has a religion is the cause of this global warming? Now WHEN did I say I blame it on my GOD? WHEN?

I find it EXTREMELY unfair, insulting and ridiculous how you just talk like that to me. As long as you don't apologize to me/us, I'm gonna remember this.

If you don't believe in GOOD or EVIL, then why are you speaking? You're neutral and what you said does not belong to either side.

But what you said was extremely vulgar and insulting.

Personally I believe us Christians has done even MORE than anything YOU've done for these famines, etc. I highly doubt that you have donate any money fot China's earthquake or have you ever even sponsor a child from India? Cause I have, and I AM doing it.

 

[Reyairia]

^The religious tend to be conservative, and conservatives tend to go against the arguing of global warming. Associating religious and conservative is something anyone can do.

And I don't believe in good or evil but I do believe in kindness and cruelty and I find it absolutely cruel that you think you can decide what people can do in their bedroom and deprive them of their happiness.

Not to mention that I find it absolutely UNFAIR that biologists have been trying to prove global warming for decades only for people to completely ignore it (yes, I'm again attributing this to religion because I've only heard too much about priests going on saying that it's just liberal propaganda, and I could go even deeper into this but I won't) and then when it comes to bite them straight in the *** they blame a god because they can't accept responsibility for something to save their lives, oh no, they're too arrogant and believe the earth was made for them and they can do whatever they want to it and with it with no consequences. As a future biologist it makes me want to grab a gun and shoot myself in the head.

In my opinion, religion is an excuse for humans to think themselves wholly superior to other species and to not give a **** what happens to them and because they're completely on some other plane nothing that happens to other lifeforms effects them. Yes, that's my opinion, just like it's your opinion where you think it's morally right to discriminate against a minority.

 

[Machspeed]

The bolded part is what Machspeed didn't address in his post. I'd like to see his response, if its possible to indiscreetly condone pedophilia, ****, incest AND lack of women's rights. This'll be interesting.

Lot is a bit of a tricky one.

He resided in a town which openly rejected God, and who disobeyed all his laws purposely and sinned with malicious intent. He did alot bad in his lifetime, and he was blinded by his own selfish desires; despite being related to Abraham, he had the ability to be righteous in soul, but was in the wrong place.

Needless to say, his daughters were raised in that sinning town as well; they were also the sisters of Sodom: the Bible's first homosexual account. God was not proud of what the sisters did, and note THEY wanted to have sex with the father, and they intoxicated him so they could. I can assure you, the Bible is not evil as many of you may think, it's quite the opposite.

Lack of women's rights has been a problem for centuries now, and not everywhere in the world has been opened up to freedom. Bethlehem just *happens* to be one of those places; no more no less than that.

Now, this thread is full of athiests, so I don't expect you to believe any of this, but someone wanted an explanation, so here you go.

 

[Daysoo]

Warning: Wall of text, insight into Desu, and a bunch of rambling ahead.
I expect a tl;dr or two for this one, but I really would appreciate it if you'd read it. ;P

So, here's a brief intro.
I'm gay. Dunno why, but I'm attracted to guys, not girls.
I guess I consider myself loosely agnostic.

I like to think that there's a cool looking old dude with a big white beard up on a throne in the clouds. (Or Morgan Freeman in a suit.)
I like to think that he's watching over me.
Don't know if that's true, which is where faith would come in, but it's a comforting thought to be sure.

I was not raised to be religious at all.
I've never actually been to church on my own.
I went with some friends once, had fun singing, but the rest was kinda boring for my poor, inattentive young mind at the time.

I've done some praying time and again, though never in church, to my recollection.
I think I'm a fairly likable guy. I'm agreeable, easy to please, and quick to laugh.
I try to be nice to everyone I meet. If I ever see you, I'll probably give you a handshake and a hug in greeting.
I tend to laugh off most insults. Things like that don't bother me. (I don't get them that often, anyways. XD)
If you don't like me, you're entirely within your rights to feel that way.

I'd like a chance though.
If you want to talk to me, get to know me, whatever. Just toss me an IM.
I'd like to know why you think I shouldn't be able to get married someday if (hopefully when) I fall in love with someone, and want to spend the rest of my days with them.
I won't insult you, or your beliefs. I won't try to outright change your mind. That's one of those things that would happen gradually, if at all.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs.
I'd like to let god do the judging, if he's so inclined. ;P
If I can manage to glean a little insight, or perhaps allow you to do the same, that would be great, though.

Oh, and for the record, I haven't read the bible.
I'm looking for one a friend of mine from the 'Gideons' gave me though, in case something from in it comes up in conversation. (I'm sure it's in my room, somewhere under my piles of crap.)
Odds are, you'll probably have to tell me where to look for what inside it, though. XD
Though, quite frankly, I'm not too fond of the idea of the bible. If you want to know why, just ask.

Anyways, if you've read this far, congratulations, this is it.
Hope to hear from some of you soon. ;P
(Not tonight though, I should have been asleep 5 hours ago! XD)

 

[iankobe]

^The religious tend to be conservative, and conservatives tend to go against the arguing of global warming. Associating religious and conservative is something anyone can do.

And I don't believe in good or evil but I do believe in kindness and cruelty and I find it absolutely cruel that you think you can decide what people can do in their bedroom and deprive them of their happiness.

Not to mention that I find it absolutely UNFAIR that biologists have been trying to prove global warming for decades only for people to completely ignore it (yes, I'm again attributing this to religion because I've only heard too much about priests going on saying that it's just liberal propaganda, and I could go even deeper into this but I won't) and then when it comes to bite them straight in the *** they blame a god because they can't accept responsibility for something to save their lives, oh no, they're too arrogant and believe the earth was made for them and they can do whatever they want to it and with it with no consequences. As a future biologist it makes me want to grab a gun and shoot myself in the head.

In my opinion, religion is an excuse for humans to think themselves wholly superior to other species and to not give a **** what happens to them and because they're completely on some other plane nothing that happens to other lifeforms effects them. Yes, that's my opinion, just like it's your opinion where you think it's morally right to discriminate against a minority.

Again. I am still insulted even though I have yet to deny global warming. You accusing me = no good.

I like how you changed from saying "You" to "they" "they" "they".

 

[Mini Mic]

due to how THEY interpreted the bible (note, they might have taken the reading the wrong way), is frankly not my problem.

You assume they even have an interpretation of the Bible as if they choose to live their lives by it too. What you seem to fail to acknowledge is that the Bible is a Christian thing, other people simply don't care about Christian beliefs.

 

[Reyairia]

Again. I am still insulted even though I have yet to deny global warming. You accusing me = no good.

The same way I am insulted when you insult my best friend by calling his attractions to men wrong and believe to deny him of his happiness because he'd rather have a relationship with a man than with a woman.
He is the most kindest person I know, and one of the smarterst. Funny that I first rejected him at first (not because he was gay, he was still in the closet at the time) because I had some bad experiences with bullies from a Catholic school I had gone to earlier. I am completely devoted to him because he was the first person to ever call me his best friend and mean it. Defending his rights to be happy is something very, very personal to me.
Although I admit I confused you with Machspeed and I apologize for that. However, I still think that you are discriminating against a minority for being born gay and not lying to themselves to keep in the closet.

I like how you changed from saying "You" to "they" "they" "they".

That's always been a bad habit of mine.

 

[Machspeed]

Ok, this post confused me.

It can be easily explained that progressively more rapid changes happen as humans become more educated and free spirited and realize they don't have to sit idly while their faces stamped upon by some higher authority, apparent or not (progression may vary worldwide).

Oh yeah, the world has "done fine" with other monstrosities against human rights that have, as far as human history is concerned, only recently been developed upon. Read: women's rights.

Finally, you throw out the word "abomination" and throw up the meaningless "opinion" and "religion" shields and honestly expect people to not get offended. Why are people constantly presenting the cop out argument "God moves in mysterious ways" to justify such stances? If you really can't come up with your own half substantiated reasoning then there's probably some niggling doubt in the back of your head that maybe this issue isn't as world breaking as you've convinced yourself it is, and have to resort to weak curtains of excuses like yours.

Since you seem to be content with people giving their two cents, I have some for you. You're an absolute tard, and a presumptuous tard at that. Lord knows the fabric of reality will collapse and gay marriage will be legalized everywhere before people like you admit fault upon themselves, but don't worry, that's just my highly subjective opinion.

What?
Weak curtains of excuses?

Excuse me, but there are several things wrong with your post.
First off, in a thread like this, the first thing every poster needs from one another is RESPECT, which is what you don't seem to have. You throwing such snide barbs at me shows how your grasping at straws for an argument. I got a couple more cents to give, as well.

I'm using Abomination in the exact context it is used in the Bible, not in an insulting way in the least bit, so I'd suggest you lay off of that. The Bible says it's an abomination, so that's what I'm going to call it as well; no time for political correctness.

Free Will was one of the biggest faults of humankind, because whether or not you believe in God, I'm going to school you on some Christianity right here. God did not want us to have free will; he knew it would bring sin to the world, and people to move further and further away from him. He loves all of us and wants all of us to go to heaven, no matter the sins, as long as we trust in him and take him for our Lord.

Religion may not be important to you, but I can assure you, to BILLIONS around the world, some kind of religion is. Many religions are strictly against homosexuality, which is probably why today it is considered such a controversial topic; and many are against it as well due to such influence. And please tell me how this is considered a monstrosity? Men were not made to reproduce with other males, and females were not made to reproduce with other females. Even if you are atheistic, basic anatomy should tell you this.

Keep insulting me, it makes you look all the more pathetic.

 

[iankobe]

The same way I am insulted when you insult my best friend by calling his attractions to men wrong and believe to deny him of his happiness because he'd rather have a relationship with a man than with a woman.
Although I admit I confused you with Machspeed and I apologize for that.


That's always been a bad habit of mine.

Well. Apology accepted.

I also apologize for insulting you or your best friend in anyway.

But let me clarify something. I, personally think is wrong, doesn't necessarily make me hate those people or I look down on them.

Its the same thing if I think a serial murderer is wrong. In this case, the murderer could be enjoying his life killing people and pursuit his own happiness in his way. He'd rather kill people than live his life "normally".

Do you get what I'm saying? I think its wrong, yes. But yet I don't look down or any of them nor treat them differently.

 

[Machspeed]

Well. Apology accepted.

I also apologize for insulting you or your best friend in anyway.

But let me clarify something. I, personally think is wrong, doesn't necessarily make me hate those people or I look down on them.

Its the same thing if I think a serial murderer is wrong. In this case, the murderer could be enjoying his life killing people and pursuit his own happiness in his way. He'd rather kill people than live his life "normally".

Do you get what I'm saying? I think its wrong, yes. But yet I don't look down or any of them nor treat them differently.

QFT.

I don't mind hanging out with gay guys or gay people in general, as long as they don't try to hit on me.
I believe it's horribly wrong, and there's no getting around that, but I'll live with it.

You assume they even have an interpretation of the Bible as if they choose to live their lives by it too. What you seem to fail to acknowledge is that the Bible is a Christian thing, other people simply don't care about Christian beliefs.

I don't understand how you want me to reply to this, at all.
If they don't believe in Christian things, I'm sorry, I guess? o_O

And if this was the part that was supposed to be directed at me:

In my opinion, religion is an excuse for humans to think themselves wholly superior to other species and to not give a **** what happens to them and because they're completely on some other plane nothing that happens to other lifeforms effects them. Yes, that's my opinion, just like it's your opinion where you think it's morally right to discriminate against a minority.

And that is absolutely fine, because that's your opinion.
Now how easy was that?

 

[Reyairia]

Well. Apology accepted.

I also apologize for insulting you or your best friend in anyway.

But let me clarify something. I, personally think is wrong, doesn't necessarily make me hate those people or I look down on them.

Its the same thing if I think a serial murderer is wrong. In this case, the murderer could be enjoying his life killing people and pursuit his own happiness in his way. He'd rather kill people than live his life "normally".

Do you get what I'm saying? I think its wrong, yes. But yet I don't look down or any of them nor treat them differently.

Unfortunately you are still hurting him and continue to hurt him by denying him of his happiness. Whether you hate him or not is umimportant, whether you affect his life in any way is, and by calling his behavior wrong and undeserving of any rights you are hurting him and will continue to do so. I find that cruel. You are looking down on them by calling their behavior wrong, and you are treating them differently from heterosexuals by denying them marriage and their love for one another.

A serial murderer is different because a serial murderer harms and brings suffering. A homosexual only looks to make himself and another man happy.

 

[iankobe]

Unfortunately you are still hurting him and continue to hurt him by denying him of his happiness. Whether you hate him or not is umimportant, whether you affect his life in any way is, and by calling his behavior wrong and undeserving of any rights you are hurting him and will continue to do so. I find that cruel. You are looking down on them by calling their behavior wrong, and you are treating them differently from heterosexuals by denying them marriage and their love for one another.

A serial murderer is different because a serial murderer harms and brings suffering. A homosexual only looks to make himself and another man happy.

Let me give you another example.

I have a friend that loves eating boogers. I call it wrong because its simply disgusting and disturbing. Now I don't treat him any different from any of my other friends. He enjoys doing it, I don't have problem with it as long as he doesn't do it in front of me.

What's the problem? I think that just because I think their behavior wrong doesn't necessarily mean I look down on them.

Now you wouldn't want something that disturbs you to be shown in public will you?

 

[Reyairia]

Let me give you another example.

I have a friend that loves eating boogers. I call it wrong because its simply disgusting and disturbing. Now I don't treat him any different from any of my other friends. He enjoys doing it, I don't have problem with it as long as he doesn't do it in front of me.

What's the problem? I think that just because I think their behavior wrong doesn't necessarily mean I look down on them.

Now you wouldn't want something that disturbs you to be shown in public will you?

Eating boogers in public is considered bad manners. Public Displays of affection can be considered so as well but heterosexual couples are no different than homosexual ones.
Also, just because you find it disturbing doesn't mean that we have to lock them up in their houses with no rights either.
You are still looking down on their behavior, though.
And for your information, I also find the concept of gay sex disgusting, but I don't care because that's not my business and I don't think about it. It is not within my rights to prevent people from doing what they want so long as they do not harm anyone, and it is not within yours either.

 

[iankobe]

Eating boogers in public is considered bad manners. Public Displays of affection can be considered so as well but heterosexual couples are no different than homosexual ones.
Also, just because you find it disturbing doesn't mean that we have to lock them up in their houses with no rights either.
You are still looking down on their behavior, though.
And for your information, I also find the concept of gay sex disgusting, but I don't care because that's not my business and I don't think about it. It is not within my rights to prevent people from doing what they want so long as they do not harm anyone, and it is not within yours either.

If you find it disgusting, then why wouldn't you prevent it and pretend it is not there?

They can still harm other people. It doesn't always have to be in a physically way. They are hurting those that loves them, corrupting the world in a way.

I can just see that in the future, little kids are starting to have same sex parents and asking them why and how could this actually happen.

I still don't get how it is "looking down" on their behavior.