California Legalizes Gay Marriage

[Blackadder]

The world has done fine with men and women marrying for centuries?
I guess so, but letting gay men marry men and women marry women isn't going to cause WWIII.

The world is changing fast, as you said. And this one's for the better.

 

[Mini Mic]

You can't force someone to share your values. It offends me to think people can choose how others should live.

 

[Aesir]

I don't even wanna hear about it's unnatural either. Homosexuality happens naturally in nature, look at any mammal and you'll see this is obvious. Furthermore if lack of population would ever become a problem due to homosexual marriages (Yeah ****ing right 6 billion people, Heterosexuals vastly out number homosexuals as well.) We can just adopt a similar strategy the Spartans practiced.

 

[Machspeed]

The world has done fine with men and women marrying for centuries?
I guess so, but letting gay men marry men and women marry women isn't going to cause WWIII.

The world is changing fast, as you said. And this one's for the better.

Says who?

This issue is split half and half, I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I never said it would cause WWIII (but then again, war is caused by practically ANYTHING these days; I'm looking at you, Bush) but some people are just not used to it, and look at it as unacceptable.

By the way, you can also clearly read in my post that I say it's not my choice for others lives, and neither do I want to make the decision for them. It's their call, not mine.

 

[Crimson King]

It's ridiculous to state that the bible is the source that it's fine for men and women to marry when, allegedly, Jesus never married. I guess marriage is below him then.

 

[Machspeed]

This won't turn into a religious debate, but let me clear something up.

It wasn't in Jesus' scriptures to get married; he was God's son, and he did exactly what he said, and lived exactly how his dad envisioned him to live. Jesus was put on the Earth strictly to allow humans to repent for their sin, and that's that.

 

[Blackadder]

Says who?

This issue is split half and half, I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I never said it would cause WWIII (but then again, war is caused by practically ANYTHING these days; I'm looking at you, Bush) but some people are just not used to it, and look at it as unacceptable.

By the way, you can also clearly read in my post that I say it's not my choice for others lives, and neither do I want to make the decision for them. It's their call, not mine.

Eyy, eyy, chill man. Like you, I'm just throwing in my own thoughts. I'm well-aware you're not the only guy who thinks this way (We did an essay on this in class, I was one of the very few people up for gay marriage).

I've just never been able to see why anyone can be against it... it does no harm to anyone, as far as I can see.

 

[Machspeed]

Eyy, eyy, chill man. Like you, I'm just throwing in my own thoughts. I'm well-aware you're not the only guy who thinks this way (We did an essay on this in class, I was one of the very few people up for gay marriage).

I've just never been able to see why anyone can be against it... it does no harm to anyone, as far as I can see.

Your entitled to your own opinion, no need to think I'm angry at you or something.

 

[Mini Mic]

Regardless of what Jesus supposedly said, the bible is not meant to be taken as fact. If it was there would be no human race today (keep in mind Adam and Eve had 2 sons).

Machspeed, do you think that a Buddhist man shouldn't be allowed to marry another because of the way someone interpreted the bible?

 

[Machspeed]

Ignore this, bumped to the next page to it could be read.

 

[Aesir]

Norway and Sweden allow gay marriages, last I heard they were pretty well off.

 

[Machspeed]

Norway and Sweden allow gay marriages, last I heard they were pretty well off.

Oh for crying out loud.

People, I didn't say the world would be destroyed if gay marriages were allowed; I just said I, and many others are against it.

Regardless of what Jesus supposedly said, the bible is not meant to be taken as fact. If it was there would be no human race today (keep in mind Adam and Eve had 2 sons).

Machspeed, do you think that a Buddhist man shouldn't be allowed to marry another because of the way someone interpreted the bible?

Lol.


This is strictly the way I live my life, not others.
I believe most all of the bible is true, and I live my life accordingly. Whether or not a random Buddhist man gets married to another due to how THEY interpreted the bible (note, they might have taken the reading the wrong way), is frankly not my problem.

As for how many children Adam and Eve had:

The Bible does not give us a specific number. Adam and Eve had Cain (Genesis 4:1), Abel (Genesis 4:2), Seth (Genesis 4:25), and many other sons and daughters (Genesis 5:4). With likely hundreds of years of child-bearing capability, Adam and Eve likely had 50+ children in their lifetime.

No, they did not only have two sons.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Norway and Sweden allow gay marriages, last I heard they were pretty well off.

You never hear about Norway anymore do you? Its like, they have this awesome whale with a spike coming out of its face and everyone just ignores them

Edit:

No, they did not only have two sons.

This gets on my nerves. The bible states how many children Adam and Eve had. The bible has passage after passage about who beget who and such, if Adam and Eve had more children, the Bible would have so stated.

 

[Aesir]

Oh for crying out loud.

People, I didn't say the world would be destroyed if gay marriages were allowed; I just said I, and many others are against it.

I don't think you realize how unpopular your position is globally.

 

[Machspeed]

I don't think you realize how unpopular your position is globally.

If me being pro-gay marriage or anti-gay marriage has to do with popularity, I honestly don't care.
Way to be a follower of the crowd, Aesir.

And Pink, I'm not going to sit there and count all of the children for a silly internet debate.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Way to be a follower of the crowd, Aesir.

Coming from the person who gets his "Personal beliefs" from a man with a robe and a cross this statement is hilarious.

 

[Machspeed]

Coming from the person who gets his "Personal beliefs" from a man with a robe and a cross this statement is hilarious.

This is the same kind of demeaning context I'm talking about.

I'm going to leave that statement unanswered, and I'd advise you stop right now before this thread turns into just back and forth flaming.

 

[Aesir]

If me being pro-gay marriage or anti-gay marriage has to do with popularity, I honestly don't care.

Way to be a follower of the crowd, Aesir.

And Pink, I'm not going to sit there and count all of the children for a silly internet debate.

I don't follow the pro-gay marriage camp because it's popular I do it because it's morally correct in my book.

I merely pointed it out to show you how incorrect you are in the assumption that it's cut down the middle so to speak. which whether your intention or not is how you came off.

Please note how ironic your post was LOL.

 

[Machspeed]

I don't follow the pro-gay marriage camp because it's popular I do it because it's morally correct in my book.

I merely pointed it out to show you how incorrect you are in the assumption that it's cut down the middle so to speak. which whether your intention or not is how you came off.

Please note how ironic your post was LOL.

I'd like you to prove me wrong that the debate has more people pro-gay marriage versus anti?
Or is it just your assumption based on what you've seen? Because I'm very sure you don't know what's going on in 3rd world countries, and what their take on it is.

For awhile actually, I wasn't a real Catholic, until I explored deeper into the religion to see what it was actually about. I read every single word of the bible, trying to grasp an understanding of the religion, and I felt right at home. I embrace it whole-heartedly.

No, I'm not just a Christian because family raised me that way.

 

[Aesir]

I'd like you to prove me wrong that the debate has more people pro-gay marriage versus anti?
Or is it just your assumption based on what you've seen? Because I'm very sure you don't know what's going on in 3rd world countries, and what their take on it is.

Prove you wrong? why should I have to you're the one making the claim that it isn't, the burden of proof falls on you my friend.

 

[Pink Reaper]

This is the same kind of demeaning context I'm talking about.

I'm going to leave that statement unanswered, and I'd advise you stop right now before this thread turns into just back and forth flaming.

Nah, I think I'll just keep flinging degrading comments your way. You're reasoning to why Gay Marriage is wrong is ridiculous, at least the last guy who argued his case intelligently and with an opinion that was his own rather than latching on to the beliefs of others.(me and Johnthegalactic had a VERY long discussion over PM a little while back. I still don't agree with him, but I now realize hes not some ignorant bigot, he just has a different belief on what homosexuality is)

 

[Machspeed]

Prove you wrong? why should I have to you're the one making the claim that it isn't, the burden of proof falls on you my friend.

There are people who think like me, whether you'd like to believe it or not.

I want you to show me some evidence, that the majority believes same sex marriages should be endorsed. Alot of countries who are, out-of-date, so to speak, still hold onto their old views and traditions, which contains men marrying women strictly.

Nah, I think I'll just keep flinging degrading comments your way. You're reasoning to why Gay Marriage is wrong is ridiculous, at least the last guy who argued his case intelligently and with an opinion that was his own rather than latching on to the beliefs of others.(me and Johnthegalactic had a VERY long discussion over PM a little while back. I still don't agree with him, but I now realize hes not some ignorant bigot, he just has a different belief on what homosexuality is)

So you insulting my religion helps you get your point across better? Whatever, feel free to do so I guess; shows how immature you are.

Note how I have yet to make some ignorant comment, such as you just did about my religion. The operative word in your sentence is >MY< reasoning, meaning it's my opinion. I'm not trying to be persuasive or any of that; I came into the thread, expressed my opinion, and got jumped on for it.

I think your the one who's acting ridiculous, my friend.

 

[Aesir]

No they don't

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/world/main604084.shtml

It's from 04 amazing how 4 years ago even roman catholic states are beginning to break and allow it to a degree.

Interesting.

 

[Machspeed]

No they don't

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/world/main604084.shtml

It's from 04 amazing how 4 years ago even roman catholic states are beginning to break and allow it to a degree.

Interesting.

You showing me that article means absolutely nothing, I hope you realize.

That only shows a couple of the hundreds, maybe even thousands of countries in the world. By the by, I'm just not talking Roman Catholic states; whether it be Islam, Judaism, whatever, alot of countries don't allow it.

 

[Eor]

I want you to show me a single reason why the majority should have the right to trample the minority. You can be against it all you want, but trying to make it an actual law is ridiculous

edit: Only a couple of the hundreds? There isn't a set number of countries, but at most there are 245. Way to go

 

[MojoMan]

I don't understand why everyone is so against gays. You can't prove their way of life any more wrong than they can prove ours. I live on the same block as several gay/lesbian people, and they are just as nice and normal as any straight person. Loving someone of the same sex is just a different view on life. Every straight person out there must be thought repulsive by gays and lesbians, just as many people think of them. And at everyone that is disregarding machspeed or anyone else that is against gay marriage, your religion or opinion is your choice and his choice alone. Your views on whether gay marriage should be legal or not cannot be proven or disproven any more than gay marriage can. Personally, I think their is nothing wrong with gay marriage, but for those who do, I cannot prove you right or wrong.

 

[Aesir]

I'm just point out the fact that he's wrong in assuming it's as much of an issue to the rest of the world as he makes it out to be. The entire western world doesn't even see it as an issue, africa and the muslim countries well they're a lost cause when it comes to secularism and asia? well they're getting there


the Article I showed you is an example of how this isn't as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. Most realize theres nothing wrong with homosexual marriages those who do are blinded by their dogmatic religion and refuse to see the other side.

 

[Machspeed]

I want you to show me a single reason why the majority should have the right to trample the minority. You can be against it all you want, but trying to make it an actual law is ridiculous

edit: Only a couple of the hundreds? There isn't a set number of countries, but at most there are 245. Way to go

Lol.
So I'm not taking geography right now; sue me?

It's been a law for decades now.
And again, I am no politician trying to make laws against gay marriage, no need to make appeals to me buddy. You guys must realize, an OPINION cannot be wrong; only fact can.

I'm just point out the fact that he's wrong in assuming it's as much of an issue to the rest of the world as he makes it out to be. The entire western world doesn't even see it as an issue, africa and the muslim countries well they're a lost cause when it comes to secularism and asia? well they're getting there


the Article I showed you is an example of how this isn't as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. Most realize theres nothing wrong with homosexual marriages those who do are blinded by their dogmatic religion and refuse to see the other side.

Sorry, but everyone in this world may have a like to have belief that they have a superior being watching over them. You can't blame them for believing it either, it's their choice, am I right?

It's an issue with me, and some others. I honestly could care less how the rest of the world reacts.
Just like how others refuse to believe in any sort of religion, and refuse to believe the moon is made out of cheese, I can refuse to see eye to eye with another's views.

And why are the African and Muslim countries a lost cause? They are as much of a human as you are, and have as much say in this issue as you do.

 

[Aesir]

Lol.
So I'm not taking geography right now; sue me?

It's been a law for decades now.
And again, I am no politician trying to make laws against gay marriage, no need to make appeals to me buddy. You guys must realize, an OPINION cannot be wrong; only fact can.

Wrong an opinion can most certainly be wrong, not all opinions as some are more subjective then others but opinions in general have the ability to be wrong.

A fact can't be wrong simply because a fact is backed by evidence, it's not a fact if it's wrong.

I suggest you brush up on your English it might help you.

edit: you're not even really debating anymore are you? you're just sorta throwing out ideas now.

And why are the African and Muslim countries a lost cause? They are as much of a human as you are, and have as much say in this issue as you do.

Africa has that whole Genocide issue going on right now, and the Muslim states well they're sort a lost cause of the extremist movements. Sucks they fell out of their enlightened age.

 

[Eor]

Unless I'm wrong (point it out if I am), there is no law defining marriage outside of random bigoted states.

An opinion might not be considered wrong. Doesn't mean it can't be close minded, bigoted, and unreasonable. Just because it's your opinion does not mean you have a right to disagree with ours then not back up your own.

But, what I want to know is if you think it should be a law that only men and woman should marry, and that gay marriage should be illegal

 

[Machspeed]

Wrong an opinion can most certainly be wrong, not all opinions as some are more subjective then others but opinions in general have the ability to be wrong.

A fact can't be wrong simply because a fact is backed by evidence, it's not a fact if it's wrong.

I suggest you brush up on your English it might help you.

Lol, insulting me once again. Does you insulting me make you feel like your making more of a point? I fail to see what's wrong with my English? And once again, I'm on the internet, not writing an end of course exam.

People's opinions are simply what they believe.
I could say the Celtics are a better team than the Lakers, but could that be proved with formulas and equations?
I could also say the Xbox 360 is the worst console of the generation, but is there anyway to prove that?

Opinion, as you can plainly see, cannot be wrong.

An opinion might not be considered wrong. Doesn't mean it can't be close minded, bigoted, and unreasonable. Just because it's your opinion does not mean you have a right to disagree with ours then not back up your own.

But, what I want to know is if you think it should be a law that only men and woman should marry, and that gay marriage should be illegal

In the same sense, can I call someone close minded and unreasonable for not believing in my religion?\
You guys pretend as if I agree with you, the world will be a better place. I came into the thread, stated my OPINION, and was attacked. So what if I disagree with you?
Are you that controlling and egotistical that everyone must agree with you?

 

[Goldberg]

I thought reading the bible only produced more atheists, I guess I just prefer some plot and complex characters on the books I read.

Machspeed: "Thousands of countries in the world", I respect how you clearly stated that your opinion is yours alone, and that gay marriage is "none of your business", but claiming ridiculous things like that(the countries thing) insults everyone here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries

http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything, but please explain: Why deny people the right to a formal union?, wasn't love the first thing on Jesus' list?.

P.S.: I'm very straight and atheist, and I apologize for more poking on that Geography thing.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Opinion, as you can plainly see, cannot be wrong.

In my opinion, the world is flat, Canada doesn't exist and every Asians name is actually Wang Li.

 

[Machspeed]

In my opinion, the world is flat, Canada doesn't exist and ever Asians name is actually Wang Li.

Fine by me.
That wasn't racist at all, but ok.

I thought reading the bible only produced more atheists, I guess I just prefer some plot and complex characters on the books I read.

Machspeed: "Thousands of countries in the world", I respect how you clearly stated that your opinion is yours alone, and that gay marriage is "none of your business", but claiming ridiculous things like that(the countries thing) insults everyone here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries

http://geography.about.com/cs/countr...rcountries.htm

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything, but please explain: Why deny people the right to a formal union?, wasn't love the first thing on Jesus' list?.

P.S.: I'm very straight and atheist, and I apologize for more poking on that Geography thing.

This is pointless explaining to an athiest, but I'll bite.

Yeah, but God also made man and woman for a reason.
It wasn't Adam and Steve who were put on the Earth together.

The first thing on Jesus' list was relieving human's of sins, and allowing them to go to the celestial kingdom. Being homosexual is considered a sin in the religion. Jesus does love us all and wants us to go to heaven, but if we continue to sin and disobey the word of God, we cannot join Him.

Claiming ridiculous things like more people are pro-marriage around the globe versus anti, without any sort of evidence is really out of it. People do think like me, so no, it's not just me and a small group of friends who think this way.

And no, reading the Bible did not make me join the big Athiest bandwagon which has been sweeping lately.

 

[Aesir]

Lol, insulting me once again. Does you insulting me make you feel like your making more of a point? I fail to see what's wrong with my English? And once again, I'm on the internet, not writing a end of course exam.

I brought it up because you didn't seem to know what a fact meant, especially if you think a fact can be wrong lol.

People's opinions are simply what they believe.

Those can most certainly be wrong

I could say the Celtics are a better team than the Lakers, but could that be proved with formulas and equations?

It can be prove by win rates and how often a team wins over all. You can easily determine which team is the better team.

I could also say the Xbox 360 is the worst console of the generation, but is there anyway to prove that?

Yes there is. Console power, accessibility to the console, price range, and game line up. All these would be taken into consideration.

Opinion, as you can plainly see, cannot be wrong.

It can, I just did it.

In the same sense, can I call someone close minded and unreasonable for not believing in my religion?

No because theres no logical reason to believe in it, no more then say for Unicorns or Fairies

 

[Eor]

In the same sense, can I call someone close minded and unreasonable for not believing in my religion?
You guys pretend as if I agree with you, the world will be a better place. I came into the thread, stated my OPINION, and was attacked. So what if I disagree with you?
Are you that controlling and egotistical that everyone must agree with you?

You came into the middle of an argument presenting your view, and then you continue to post remarks debating with people. You cannot be upset that you are in a debate when you push yourself into one. If you don't want to have people attack you, leave the thread. This thread is basically nothing but a sub-level Debate hall thread now.

Your entire opinion is about keeping a group of people down for religious reasoning and using the law to keep them there (I'm going to assume you do want to make it a law as you ignored that part), that is no better then racism. You are bigoted because you call a whole group of being an abomination. You are in a debate, stop attacking us for actually bothering to respond to you.

You could call someone bigoted and unreasonable for not believing in your religion, but it would be destroying those words completely. I don't care about your religion in this debate, but you show yourself intolerant against gays. That alone makes you a bigot. You then support a law that has no basis outside your religion in a secular nation that has a clear ruling about the separation of church and state. That is unreasonable.

edit: might as well state that people are diluting the meaning of opinion. I say Blue is the best color. That's an opinion. I say Candada doesn't exist. that's not an opinion, that's a thesis. And thesis can definitely be proven wrong.

 

[Machspeed]

I brought it up because you didn't seem to know what a fact meant, especially if you think a fact can be wrong lol.



Those can most certainly be wrong


It can be prove by win rates and how often a team wins over all. You can easily determine which team is the better team.



Yes there is. Console power, accessibility to the console, price range, and game line up. All these would be taken into consideration.

It can, I just did it.




No because theres no logical reason to believe in it, no more then say for Unicorns or Fairies

Lol.

The Celtics and Lakers are human.
They may perform better during one game, then be off during another. There are way too many unknown variables to claim one team is ultimately better than another.

The key to any religion is faith, so if what your looking for is evidence, I guess that explains why your an athiest.

Just stop.

You came into the middle of an argument presenting your view, and then you continue to post remarks debating with people. You cannot be upset that you are in a debate when you push yourself into one. If you don't want to have people attack you, leave the thread. This thread is basically nothing but a sub-level Debate hall thread now.

Your entire opinion is about keeping a group of people down for religious reasoning and using the law to keep them there (I'm going to assume you do want to make it a law as you ignored that part), that is no better then racism. You are bigoted because you call a whole group of being an abomination. You are in a debate, stop attacking us for actually bothering to respond to you.

You could call someone bigoted and unreasonable for not believing in your religion, but it would be destroying those words completely. I don't care about your religion in this debate, but you show yourself intolerant against gays. That alone makes you a bigot. You then support a law that has no basis outside your religion in a secular nation that has a clear ruling about the separation of church and state. That is unreasonable.

edit: might as well state that people are diluting the meaning of opinion. I say Blue is the best color. That's an opinion. I say Candada doesn't exist. that's not an opinion, that's a thesis. And thesis can definitely be proven wrong.

Last time I checked, this was the pool room. You know, where people calmly discuss life, and the likes? Right above this thread is an NBA playoffs one, I wouldn't consider this room all too flared. You just want it to be that way so you can argue with someone about something.

Call me inhumane, call me whatever you will, but I consider homosexuality a sin, and that's bottom line. If they want to get married? Fine. It's really not my call in the end anyway.
I'm against it reguardless.

And, me, along with billions of people on this Earth, hold Religion as their number one focal point of life. God is more important to me than anything else in this world, so I could care less what state, or any other human has to say. Alot think this way as well, whether it be Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, whatever the case may be. Racism isn't mentioned as any kind of factor in my religion, neither is it in any (that I know of, at least).

 

[iankobe]

It's the end of the world.

What can I say? This is why America's becoming worse and worse these years.

Freakin sickening.

 

[Machspeed]

It's the end of the world.

What can I say? This is why America's becoming worse and worse these years.

Freakin sickening.

Yeah, I believe so as well.

There have been record-setting natural disasters really frequently lately, alot of famine, war, death, disregard for other human life.

He is coming kobe, He is coming soon enough.

 

[Aesir]

Lol.

The Celtics and Lakers are human.
They may perform better during one game, then be off during another. There are way too many unknown variables to claim one team is ultimately better than another.

No Johns, I don't care if they're human they're a team and if they can't win nearly as much as another team guess what during that season they weren't as good as the other team.

Plus you also have to take into account their over all record not just 1 seasons record. If a team has a record of playing very well all season but they squander during 1 thats not going to take away from their good team standing.

I don't even follow basketball but I'm assuming you took two very even teams to try and trick me right? Probably.

My reasoning works though you compare their wins over all from various seasons and make an objective answer as to which is better. It's not hard it just takes time.

The key to any religion is faith, so if what your looking for is evidence, I guess that explains why your an athiest.

I could careless about religion, faith isn't necessarily a good thing it can often times be a bad thing.