California Legalizes Gay Marriage

[Lucrece]

Happy day indeed. I wonder whether Californians will have the stomach to invalidate the marriage of the octogenarian lesbian couple that has been well over 50 years together and are now the first to marry in California. It truly paints a different image to perceive two elderly ladies who've loved each other for so long as a "threat to marriage".

Anyways, the whole Christian debacle: Don't argue with them. By arguing with them, you are validating their mistaken notion that people should be accountable under their basis, i.e. the Bible. Someday, Christians have to realize that the Bible is not actual legislation, but rather a philosophical text in these current times.

Just don't give them the luxury of arguing why their patronizing stance is out of place. Better yet, save that time and effort, and use it on those that can actually be convinced. Straight allies will be the ones to help scorn these arrogant dimwits into submission, no doubt.

 

[lumberheartwood]

I agree. The Bible isn't universal law; it's a collection of philosophies that helps guide the normal straight, Christian person. I mean, Dante's Inferno hasn't rose or Armageddon hasn't occurred since the first gay relationship occurred thousands of years ago.

If it's love, who's to say we should stop a beautiful relationship. You can't change a person from being horny over dudes/girls in one night, let alone a lifetime. If they realize they are gay, then acceptance/tolerability is the way to go. You don't have to be a part of it if you want nothing to do with it. But you don't have to condemn it as an atrocity.

Gay marriage is okay with me. Only the self-righteous and the arrogant and the aserine keep making it a big deal. Being gay after all was never meant to make a minority group, if it hadn't been those people who kept making such a huge fuss over the issue they wanted to make clear. Geez.

*I saw a newscast of a lesbian couple the other day who have been trying to legalize gay marriage/equality for at least 3 decades and I was kind of touched that after all their hard work these years, they would be one of the first couples to be given a certificate of acknowledgement showing their bond of eternal love. Way to go. Shows how much change can happen. If we can accept integration, mixed marriages, and marriages of people from different nations, why can't we also accept a human marriage of two people of the same gender. I think the only marriages that can't be supported are those of a man and a beast, a marriage due to commerce/monetary values (unless the two parties truly do "love" each other), marriages of cousins (for fear of genetic disease), and a pedophiliac/abusive marriage. They ethically are wrong or they result in the worst for the future of mankind. But gay marriage is something that can be tolerated/embraced for it doesn't bring anything truly negative to the future of the human race. *You can say the AIDs virus as a counterpoint, but that is a misconception for gay people do not spread sexually transmited diseases. People who share contaminated needles, are born of a parent with the disease, who don't use protection, or are dumb and/or promiscuous spread the disease.

 

[Reyairia]

If anyone brings religion into it, I just say I am an atheist and therefore the bible does not apply to me, and nothing in it can be used to convince me. Nothing to be throwing at Christians here, but people used to use the Bible to support slavery back when that was in the process of being outlawed - not to mention that using the Bible as if it were some universal thing that can be applied to everyone is ridiculous. Yes, I am against the idea of the bible being used in courtrooms.

I am in support of Gay marriage. Considering that homosexuality has genetic roots it can't "spread," the only "consequence" that anti-gay groups advocate is the fact that homosexuality will become more acceptable and they do not want that even if they do not admit it. Why? Because that would make their views "out of the norm" and frowned upon in the next years. No one wants to be a minority.

Yes, I am also against the idea of first cousin marriage. There is no "small increase" in the chance of obtaining a genetic disease or disorder. The chances of a child of cousins obtaining one is 1/300, meanwhile a child of unrelated parents has at most a 1/5000 chance. 1/5000 would be a more common genetic disorder. 1 in every 300 children is a lot. In fact, there are special aspects of your brain especially made to avoid marrying too close in the family.
We can also look at the Pakistani British, who commonly marry in between their cousins to avoid family feuds. They are less than 5% of the British population yet account for over 30% of all British genetic disorder cases. And someone already mentioned the Hapsburgs. I live in Austria, so I've done my research of them and I know that many of them were born mentally handicapped during their final years of reign. I think it ended up being 1/3 or 2/3, and that's not counting the ones that didn't survive their childhood - despite pretty much literally being born with a silver spoon in their mouths.
I also don't believe women over 40 should have children, however that would be too difficult to outlaw.

 

[Deleted member]

Yay, DoH's here! And he linked to our old DWYP thread! <3

Yeah it's 5 AM and I'm really tired and I don't know how I stumbled upon this thread but whatever, I gotta clear up some stuff:

When I was deciding my topics for the actual debate contest, I decided that I'd state I was anti-gay marriage as a challenge for myself, even though I am pro civil rights. Maybe this is known, maybe it isn't, but I'm no bigot ^__^

The post explaining this is around somewhere. I'm not gonna find it, but I figured that if DoH was gonna link to our old thread, I'd properly re-explain it.

Carry on. (btw - check that thread, see when he last posted. that ******* )

 

[Crimson King]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-36235 - 0:46 to watch him get totally confused.

 

[N355]

church and state should be completely seperate. I hate when politics and religion get mixed together. I personally am not homosexual but I believe they should not be denied the right just because the bible says so

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I see it as a problem that the people of California vote against gay "marriage", but the court decides to make it legal anyway.
That may make some people all happy, but it is disgusting that the system there is destroying democracy.
Why, if George Bush had lost the election and we decided to make him president anyway, that would be met with enormous and overwhelming criticism.

And this shows what hypocrites you people are, you say it is democracy that you be given this freedom, and in this democracy, the people decide against it, and now, in a way completely against democracy, you are granted your so called "marriage".
You do not believe in democracy, you are selfish! You are self serving! This may be our country, but we make decision as one, not minorities!
You may have a shield against "discrimination", but I will believe in democracy and the US has it in all 50, or would in now be 49 states?
You ask yourself this, is this democracy when the US decides against the people?
You may be satisfied but I see this decision against democracy as a stinking corpse!

You may flame and whine about how you say you are born this way and cannot help it, hey, the emo kid wasn't born emo, he converted to fit in, be accepted, make friends who accept him(I don't have trouble with emo people, i am friends with some that may consider themselves this).

Think about this!

 

[Mr.Lombardi34]

I see it as a problem that the people of California vote against gay "marriage", but the court decides to make it legal anyway.
That may make some people all happy, but it is disgusting that the system there is destroying democracy.
Why, if George Bush had lost the election and we decided to make him president anyway, that would be met with enormous and overwhelming criticism.

And this shows what hypocrites you people are, you say it is democracy that you be given this freedom, and in this democracy, the people decide against it, and now, in a way completely against democracy, you are granted your so called "marriage".
You do not believe in democracy, you are selfish! You are self serving! This may be our country, but we make decision as one, not minorities!
You may have a shield against "discrimination", but I will believe in democracy and the US has it in all 50, or would in now be 49 states?
You ask yourself this, is this democracy when the US decides against the people?
You may be satisfied but I see this decision against democracy as a stinking corpse!

You may flame and whine about how you say you are born this way and cannot help it, hey, the emo kid wasn't born emo, he converted to fit in, be accepted, make friends who accept him(I don't have trouble with emo people, i am friends with some that may consider themselves this).

Think about this!

Since when did the people vote against gay marriage? And your point about emo people makes no sense. What are you trying to say? That gays choose to be gay? Name one reason anybody would want to if you could choose to love the same sex or the opposite one. You can't.

 

[TheMike54]

I see it as a problem that the people of California vote against gay "marriage", but the court decides to make it legal anyway.
That may make some people all happy, but it is disgusting that the system there is destroying democracy.

So if the people of a state decided and voted for a bill that called for the killing of all minorities, we obviously should kill all them non-whites right!

You claim that allowing gay marriage even though a supposed majority has voted against it is destroying democracy. Wrong. Denying people their basic human rights is what is destroying democracy.

Why, if George Bush had lost the election and we decided to make him president anyway, that would be met with enormous and overwhelming criticism.

George Bush did lose the 2000 election and was still made president.

 

[Eor]

I see it as a problem that the people of California vote against gay "marriage", but the court decides to make it legal anyway.
That may make some people all happy, but it is disgusting that the system there is destroying democracy.
Why, if George Bush had lost the election and we decided to make him president anyway, that would be met with enormous and overwhelming criticism.

And this shows what hypocrites you people are, you say it is democracy that you be given this freedom, and in this democracy, the people decide against it, and now, in a way completely against democracy, you are granted your so called "marriage".
You do not believe in democracy, you are selfish! You are self serving! This may be our country, but we make decision as one, not minorities!
You may have a shield against "discrimination", but I will believe in democracy and the US has it in all 50, or would in now be 49 states?
You ask yourself this, is this democracy when the US decides against the people?
You may be satisfied but I see this decision against democracy as a stinking corpse!

You may flame and whine about how you say you are born this way and cannot help it, hey, the emo kid wasn't born emo, he converted to fit in, be accepted, make friends who accept him(I don't have trouble with emo people, i am friends with some that may consider themselves this).

Think about this!

The will of the majority has no right to trample the rights of the minority. Your post shows you to be an immature liar (in relation to your earlier claim to be Buddhist), and your rant about comparing homosexuals to emo reveals your bigotry and lack of understanding on any aspect of human nature.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I guess you don't need to see this post twice.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

The will of the majority has no right to trample the rights of the minority. Your post shows you to be an immature liar (in relation to your earlier claim to be Buddhist), and your rant about comparing homosexuals to emo reveals your bigotry and lack of understanding on any aspect of human nature.

And the inverse is equally true.

Also, why, humans naturally want to fit in and do what we want and be accepted by others, do you want to be gay, I do not, that is why I am not!
Do you want to be emo? Do I? Some people do, and I get along with them, and have not seen a voting by the people to ban being emo.
These are choices.
You make choices, choices make you.
Hence.
You be gay, gay you are!

I be straight, straight I am!

My friend goes emo, emo he is!

He goes hunting, a hunter he is!

He flips burgers, a burger flipper he is!

He worships Allah, a Muslim he is!

Choices, we all make choices, everything, some necessary, breathing, decide to prevent your self from breathing, and you may have committed suicide.

Sad, how some cannot understand what a choice is, no matter the enormity of it.

 

[Eor]

Please explain how the minorities are trampling your rights by having theirs?

 

[AltF4]

JohnTheGalactic:

America is not a Democracy. And thank god for that. Otherwise idiots like you would make the place an intolerable place to live with your bigoted and prejudiced views.

Instead, we use a different system called a Republic. Democracy is just a nice word for mob-rule.

 

[Eor]

And the inverse is equally true.

Also, why, humans naturally want to fit in and do what we want and be accepted by others, do you want to be gay, I do not, that is why I am not!
Do you want to be emo? Do I? Some people do, and I get along with them, and have not seen a voting by the people to ban being emo.
These are choices.
You make choices, choices make you.
Hence.
You be gay, gay you are!

I be straight, straight I am!

My friend goes emo, emo he is!

He goes hunting, a hunter he is!

He flips burgers, a burger flipper he is!

He worships Allah, a Muslim he is!

Choices, we all make choices, everything, some necessary, breathing, decide to prevent your self from breathing, and you may have committed suicide.

Sad, how some cannot understand what a choice is, no matter the enormity of it.

Unfortunately, all of respectable modern science disagrees with your insane belief that sexual orientation in a choice. It's like saying having down-syndrome is a choice, which I would not find surprising from you

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Please explain how the minorities are trampling your rights by having theirs?

Hunters are a minority, or atleast in this example, they believe it is right to kill that turkey.
Why, the hunter may believe he made a good kill and can go home and feed his family, but the vegan majority(lol, just an example) decides he must be punished for taking the turkeys live.
Why, do you believe it is against your rights to let a hunter kill that turkey?
The vegan majority of some state(just an example) in USA do.

A comparison of two unlike things, where each is the minority.
Just like rocks and plastic, unlike!
I am not saying a gay is a hunter.
Now a hunter can decide to be gay, or a gay can decide to hunt turkey.

Edited so as not to confuse.

 

[SkylerOcon]

JohnTheGalactic:

America is not a Democracy. And thank god for that. Otherwise idiots like you would make the place an intolerable place to live with your bigoted and prejudiced views.

Instead, we use a different system called a Republic. Democracy is just a nice word for mob-rule.

Yes. Thank you. Finally somebody smart.

And umm... John...

I don't think you realize this -- would gays not choose to be straight if they could? I mean, it's totally my choice to be discriminated against and insulted. I know. It makes so much sense.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Murderers are a minority, thankfully, they, atleast at the time of the murder, believed it was right to kill that person.
Why, the murderer may believe he should be free but the majority believes he should be jailed.
Why, do you believe it is against your rights to let a murderer roam the streets freely?
I do not.

A comparison of two unlike things, where each is the minority.
Just like rocks and plastic, unlike!
I am not saying a gay is a murderer.
Now a murderer can decide to be gay, or a gay can decide to murder someone.

There are VERY few murderers who honestly believe what they did was right, they just chose to do it anyways.

 

[Eor]

Murderers are a minority, thankfully, they, atleast at the time of the murder, believed it was right to kill that person.
Why, the murderer may believe he should be free but the majority believes he should be jailed.
Why, do you believe it is against your rights to let a murderer roam the streets freely?
I do not.

A comparison of two unlike things, where each is the minority.
Just like rocks and plastic, unlike!
I am not saying a gay is a murderer.
Now a murderer can decide to be gay, or a gay can decide to murder someone.

If you're not comparing them to murderers, then please explain what the hell that post was about in a topic about gay marriage. All I see if you claiming homosexuality harms society like murderers and therefore shouldn't be allowed freedom. Which, again, is about what I'd expect from a freedom hating bible-thumper like you. Say hello to Hitler and Jerry Falwell in hell

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Unfortunately, all of respectable modern science disagrees with your insane belief that sexual orientation in a choice. It's like saying having down-syndrome is a choice, which I would not find surprising from you

Down syndrome, and being gay, both mental deficiencies?
Why, are gays mentally deficient? Does your mind not work correctly?
Are you messed up in the head? Has your brain been formed incorrectly? You are saying being gay is a problem, if it is the same as a mental disorder!
Why, I do not think gay people have a mental problem, I believe your minds are working just as good as someone else's.

It is a choice.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

If you're not comparing them to murderers, then please explain what the hell that post was about in a topic about gay marriage. All I see if you claiming homosexuality harms society like murderers and therefore shouldn't be allowed freedom. Which, again, is about what I'd expect from a freedom hating bible-thumper like you. Say hello to Hitler and Jerry Falwell in hell

I did not say it harmed society, here, let me change that to hunters, they do not destroy human lives.

Oops, double posted, by accident, sorry.

 

[Eor]

Down syndrome, and being gay, both mental deficiencies?
Why, are gays mentally deficient? Does your mind not work correctly?
Are you messed up in the head? Has your brain been formed incorrectly? You are saying being gay is a problem, if it is the same as a mental disorder!
Why, I do not think gay people have a mental problem, I believe your minds are working just as good as someone else's.

It is a choice.

Are you really this dense? Really? Not only was I in no way comparing it to homosexuality (I was comparing your stance to it), I am not gay. Please actually answer the questions we've constantly pilled on you instead of being an idiot.

You can't back up your claim against evidence with the same claim. You dodged everything I was saying.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Are mods allowed to ban someone for bigotry and ignorance?

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Oh, do not forget this, a Bible-thumping (presumably, due to Bible-thumping) Christian would not go to hell, as their Bible, states they will not go to hell, and will go to heaven.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Are mods allowed to ban someone for bigotry and ignorance?

Why ban me for believing what I am believing, I may believe you guys are ignorant, which I never said, I was just complaining that the vote of the people was over run by the government and it is not right in my eyes that the majority was ignored.

Ayaih, sorry, double post by accident! I am getting sloppy, sorry mods!

Not directly. But you sure can be banned if you double post enough!

umm....I didn't mean to, lol, just, jumping the gun

 

[AltF4]

Are mods allowed to ban someone for bigotry and ignorance?

Not directly. But you sure can be banned if you double post enough!

 

[Eor]

Are you ever going to actually answer what we asked or try to back up your claims? Ever

 

[Pink Reaper]

Why ban me for believing what I am believing, I may believe you guys are ignorant, which I never said, I was just complaining that the vote of the people was over run by the government and it is not right in my eyes that the majority was ignored.

Ayaih, sorry, double post by accident! I am getting sloppy, sorry mods!

The majority is often rash and stupid. The majority thought War was the best response to an attack simply because the majority was angry and scared. Was war the best choice? Has anything changed? Have the terrorists stopped existing, stopped hating America? No. The majority used to think that people of different color were lower beings who didn't deserve to be considered "human." The majority used to believe women should never leave the home and should only have the social status of "Mother." The majority is a foolish, easily scared mob who would rather impose their oft wrong beliefs on others rather than accept change.

And don't forget what AltF4Warrior told you, this is not a Democracy, its a Republic, those people who made the choice are representatives of the Majority and for once, it seems like the majority made some smart choices.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Ok, let me just go make an upset with government thread then, and complain about how the majority is being pummeled by the few.

 

[Reyairia]

You may flame and whine about how you say you are born this way and cannot help it, hey, the emo kid wasn't born emo, he converted to fit in, be accepted, make friends who accept him(I don't have trouble with emo people, i am friends with some that may consider themselves this).

Think about this!

1: First of, I agree that it does seem a bit odd against democracy. However remember that Californians are relatively liberal. AND the country is founded on the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2: It has been proved that gays are BORN gay - trust me, dealing with people like you makes them wish they were straight so they wouldn't have to. It is a choice, however, whether they decide to be practicing homosexuals or lie to themselves and their(later) families.
3: Homosexuality does not harm society, tell me how it does.
4: Whoever came up with "homosexuality is a choice" was probably gay himself and therefore could make the choice. Look at someone of the opposite gender and make the choice to feel attracted to them for just a moment.
Couldn't do it, could you?
If you did though, I'm sure you're a closet gay.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

1: First of, I agree that it does seem a bit odd against democracy. However remember that Californians are relatively liberal. AND the country is founded on the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2: It has been proved that gays are BORN gay - trust me, dealing with people like you makes them wish they were straight so they wouldn't have to. It is a choice, however, whether they decide to be practicing homosexuals or lie to themselves and their(later) families.
3: Homosexuality does not harm society, tell me how it does.
4: Whoever came up with "homosexuality is a choice" was probably gay himself and therefore could make the choice. Look at someone of the opposite gender and make the choice to feel attracted to them for just a moment.
Couldn't do it, could you?
If you did though, I'm sure you're a closet gay.

Why, you do not know anything about me, as far as you know, I am the President of the USA.
You ignore that I am upset with this political process, where, now I have learned, not only was the vote of the majority overturned, but also, the lower court!
The higher it gets to where the lower majority has a useless opinion, the closer we get to becoming a dictatorship.
Hitler could let the people make a decision, and overule it all he wanted.
The President can veto a bill, but it can be overiden, if the mojority of a lower house decides so, unless he pocket vetoes.

 

[Eor]

Why, you do not know anything about me, as far as you know, I am the President of the USA.
You ignore that I am upset with this political process, where, now I have learned, not only was the vote of the majority overturned, but also, the lower court!
The higher it gets, the closer we get to becoming a dictatorship.
Hitler could let the people make a decision, and overule it all he wanted.
The President can veto a bill, but it can be overiden, if the mojority of a lower house decides so, unless he pocket vetoes.

You are forgetting that this has been in place forever, and you are still not answering anything we've asked you nor have you backed up your position. All that you have said it we're dictators because we believe in equal rights.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Ok, let me just go make an upset with government thread then, and complain about how the majority is being pummeled by the few.

Oh god dammit. How are they pummeling the majority? Letting gay people get married doesn't harm anyone, in any way shape or form.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Oh god dammit. How are they pummeling the majority? Letting gay people get married doesn't harm anyone, in any way shape or form.

We ignored the majority and what they believed! Please, listen, the majority was ignored, we were shoved under the seat cushion! This is about the majority, and how the is changing, we will not be effective in deciding and influencing the government at this rate.
Sure, gay people got their way, and they are happy.
But what next, what will happen?
Will we vote for Obama and Bush decides he would rather have McCain in office, or vice versa.

Will we decide that we want to keep onions on our burgers, lol, despite political pressure to remove them, and our vote is overruled and our onions are confiscated!(been keeping up?)

 

[Crimson King]

John, you can't get married to women because I consider it gross. You can't raise a child because you will train them to be straight and make them only straight. Also, if you do ever get the right to marry, all the gay majorities will protest your wedding and call it an abomination.

How is that even remotely logical to you?

First off, if the constitution actually bans gay marriage (it does not), then **** the constitution. It's a false document. People have rights as human beings whether it's in the constitution or not (hence why it used the term "inalienable"). How does a gay person getting married affect you at all? It doesn't affect me any.

I actually hope they don't ban you. I miss when people just pour out stupid things.

Will we vote for Obama and Bush decides he would rather have McCain in office, or vice versa.

Did you ignore it before? In 2000, Al Gore won the popular vote, ie THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, but Bush was put in as president.

 

[AltF4]

If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side.
~ Orson Scott Card


The voice of the majority is irrelevant. You should really take a Government 101 class, or pay attention to the one you're in.

 

[Eor]

We ignored the majority and what they believed! Please, listen, the majority was ignored, we were shoved under the seat cushion! This is about the majority, and how the is changing, we will not be effective in deciding and influencing the government at this rate.
Sure, gay people got their way, and they are happy.
But what next, what will happen?
Will we vote for Obama and Bush decides he would rather have McCain in office, or vice versa.

Will we decide that we want to keep onions on our burgers, lol, despite political pressure to remove them, and our vote is overruled and our onions are confiscated!(been keeping up?)

We've answers this, but perhaps you're too dumb to read. The majority has no right to trample the rights of the minority. That's why we had the civil rights legislation. If you oppose this, you can only therefore claim the civil right acts were the act of a dictatorship, because it overrode the racist majority.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Please, read my words, I wouldn't be here posting this, if it wasn't that the majority was over ruled, this could very well be over fishing, or owning semi-automatic rifles.
Can you take notice that my problem is not gay marriage, but that the majority was ignored.
I knew I would get flamed, but awell, you have your beliefs I have mine.
You are allowed to tell me wrong, but if I try to point out one thing that bothers me, one small fracture in the political system that I am upset with, I am a hating, hell-bound fiend that deserves banishment!
Why is this? Why am i not allowed to state my discontent?

 

[Eor]

No one is stopping you from stating your opinion. But when you don't respond to others arguments, still post like an idiot, and have dumb positions in the first place, you can't get angry when people are less then happy with you.

 

[AltF4]

When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong.
~ Eugene V. Debs


Democracy is four wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
~ Ambrose Bierce

More relevant quotes. I love quotes!