Social C. Falcon Social

[bertbusdriver]

Neither are good edge guard options as neither scrape below the ledge.

There's an edge guard case where they recover above ledge (high illusion, firefox to ledge) where you don't have enough time for anything but ftilt since it comes out on frame 9 whereas fastest upair and nair are like frame 11 and frame 12 or so (also frst frame of upair doesn't covers a very small amount of vertical space since falcon's legs are like horizontal or 4 oclock position). You usually have better options, but there are times when it is a legitimate option.

That said, I agree with your general sentiment that the tilts are situational at best.

Carnivore: I see what you mean about throwing out ftilt after spaced aerial or crossup to catch out of shield. I've experimented with the same idea quite a bit. It doesn't work well against good players the way you're envisioning it. If they continue to shield when you throw out your ftilt, you're stuck with 18 frames of wind-down lag (ftilt is 29 frames, hits frames 9-11), which is plenty of time to WD out and punish appropriately. On the other hand, if you hit it, they need to be at some sweet spot of mid percent where you get a knockdown for a tech chase situation/ missed tech punish so your expected value will be generally quite low if not negative. Keep them honest in shield with grabs and spaced aerials.

 

[Zhea]

What case is this? I don't know of any top tiers where this is an issue.

 

[bertbusdriver]

What case is this? I don't know of any top tiers where this is an issue.

There's an edge guard case where they recover above ledge (high illusion, firefox to ledge)

think of it like the case where marth uses double jab during edge guards. Except crappier because it's falcon's ftilt. But it covers a similar area.

 

[Zhea]

Side B? That has start up. If they are above stage why not just aerial or fsmash?

 

[bertbusdriver]

Side B? That has start up. If they are above stage why not just aerial or fsmash?

sideB has startup, but sometimes you're late to get into position because you might have just traded to get him offstage. Or maybe I'm late because I'm a bad player. In any case, you might not have time.

both aerials and fsmash are slower, more inputs for the aerials as well so smaller room for error as well. I detailed the frame data in my first post about this. I'm not saying it's a common case, just detailing a situation that's not particularly contrived where you could consider using ftilt to edgeguard.

You're not always going to be in the most optimal position for edge guards and I think in some cases the extra speed and unique positioning of ftilt at frames 9-11 is preferable to an aerial, which will require to time your jump, thus less margin for error. PERFECT uair puts a hitbox in front of you at like frame 11, and it doesn't hit as low. Depending on the exact situation, your potential outcome can be just as good (successful edgeguard) with higher rate of success (easier to time).

I'm fine with leaving this discussion at "Ftilt is a terribly situational move. Zhea and bertbusdriver both agree on that."

 

[bertbusdriver]

doubleleeee

 

[Zhea]

I just don't like giving out bad information and make people think it's a legit option. It's a lazy option. Which is fine, those are actually important, it's part of the reason the top tier IS the top tier. They have good lazy options, for when the pressure hits. I prefer Dsmash for those times.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Not shining peach back and forth with fox for 100% then upsmashing is a lazy option too. I'm not sure why you felt like this was 'bad information.' I've listed the frame data multiple times. I've mentioned that it's not a common case situation.

NEW TOPIC: the random DI + teching CPU mod is amazing. If you have a wii, it'll take you about 1.5 hours to set up if you're not already softmodded. I just did it last night...

 

[Citizen Snips]

Not shining peach back and forth with fox for 100% then upsmashing is a lazy option too. I'm not sure why you felt like this was 'bad information.' I've listed the frame data multiple times. I've mentioned that it's not a common case situation.

NEW TOPIC: the random DI + teching CPU mod is amazing. If you have a wii, it'll take you about 1.5 hours to set up if you're not already softmodded. I just did it last night...

God damn I need a Wii. Gonna be stuck in Virginia or Rochester this summer and both areas are dead afaik.

Also hey Bert, I haven't seen you since Zenith 2012

 

[bertbusdriver]

God damn I need a Wii. Gonna be stuck in Virginia or Rochester this summer and both areas are dead afaik.

Also hey Bert, I haven't seen you since Zenith 2012

sup dude. Looks like you got much better since we last played I haven't been around the east coast much recently, usually just around xmas time since my family is there.
I got my 2nd wii (1st one broke back in like 2009...) for $40 on craigslist including component cables, spent another $10 on the SD card to use for homebrew and loading melee. I think $50 is a great investment considering the benefits.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Can barely afford to eat at the moment lol, $50 is probably too big of a drop right now. College life is real. Glad you're preaching the truth about zarials. I started using it for any OOS and any early aerials. The difference is amazing.

 

[KUSH.]

sup dude. Looks like you got much better since we last played I haven't been around the east coast much recently, usually just around xmas time since my family is there.
I got my 2nd wii (1st one broke back in like 2009...) for $40 on craigslist including component cables, spent another $10 on the SD card to use for homebrew and loading melee. I think $50 is a great investment considering the benefits.

Damn a random tech and random DI cpu mod? i need to get this.

 

[thespymachine]

http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-falcon-video-thread.354764/

 

[onehunna]

Wooow, Smoke2Johnnies at this evening's Super Smash Sunday! (Spoilers ahead.) Such clean play, that combo into stomp off-stage versus Plup's Fox. Got damn. Game three versus Lucky in Grand Finals on Yoshi's... Good lord. After dropping two games this man regained momentum furiously and just went ahead and took the set. Never lost it. And his edgeguards tonight were so on point. S2J with edgeguards? What is this? You guys pick up on any interesting stuff S2J was laying down? Check out the VOD if you haven't already.

 

[PunkAaron]

Any tips on transitioning from Ganon to Falcon? I feel like if I play Ganon, I should learn how to play Falcon too.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Wooow, Smoke2Johnnies at this evening's Super Smash Sunday! (Spoilers ahead.) Such clean play, that combo into stomp off-stage versus Plup's Fox. Got damn. Game three versus Lucky in Grand Finals on Yoshi's... Good lord. After dropping two games this man regained momentum furiously and just went ahead and took the set. Never lost it. And his edgeguards tonight were so on point. S2J with edgeguards? What is this? You guys pick up on any interesting stuff S2J was laying down? Check out the VOD if you haven't already.

youtube vids are up
https://www.youtube.com/user/teamOxyTv/videos

Any tips on transitioning from Ganon to Falcon? I feel like if I play Ganon, I should learn how to play Falcon too.

There's no reason you should learn to play falcon if you play ganon vs any other character just because ganon is a 'falcon clone'. Pretty different playstyles...

 

[carnivore]

S2J ftilts were good examples of the discussion points I brought up earlier. Ftilts to cover ledge when he read/reacted to Illusions. Remeber at least one ftilt covered an on stage Illusion, which I bet he didn't expect but it got covered anyway. Even a few ftilts for spacing.

Although his single hit Nairs are way more impressive. Also his ability to convince Fox not to edge guard him is pretty sweet.

 

[Alexo30]

Does anyone have the frame data for a raptor boost cancel on platforms? I'm looking to perfect this.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Does anyone have the frame data for a raptor boost cancel on platforms? I'm looking to perfect this.

What are you looking for btw? Number of frames from start of raptor boost until you're able to do another action? Let's just say it's a crap ton of frames.

there are a couple million things that are higher priority than learning this...

 

[Alexo30]

What are you looking for btw? Number of frames from start of raptor boost until you're able to do another action? Let's just say it's a crap ton of frames.

there are a couple million things that are higher priority than learning this...

I'm talking like the frame window to get the cancel, and the number of frames that the boost lasts when you do get the cancel. If I had to imagine, it's not that many frames. I'm just trying to expand my knowledge of the trick, nothing of real importance. If no one has it, it's np.

I've got pretty much everything else down super solid, just looking for something a bit creative.

 

[texh]

What's the best way to hold controller for Falcon player?

I use thumb for X, A, B and C-stick, index for Z and middle for R (wavedash).
It's not that bad although it lacks C-stick control.
Thought about the "claw grip" but it's quite uncomfortable. Is it worth investing time into ?

 

[thespymachine]

It's worth it if you don't already have problems with your wrists/hands, and you can give yourself plenty of time to work with it before you compete. I personally don't condone it because you're far more liable to injure yourself by using claw.

We've all seen the techskill Hax was doing with normal grip, I'm sure others could do it too.

 

[Zhea]

It's uncomfortable because your hand isn't used to doing it. Fun little exercise, hold all but your ring finger still with your other hand or putting a surface in the way, and then try to bend your ring finger. It's painful right? Well if you practice that for a minute a day, after a few weeks it won't be and you will be able to bend it all the way down. Now do the same thing, but instead of you bending your ring finger, find something to press it against. You can probably bend it way further without pain this way, because it's not the position that is uncomfortable, it's holding your muscles and tendons in an unfamiliar way.

Is claw worth learning? It makes certain advanced techniques and aerial control simple compared to a traditional grip. A traditional grip won't prevent you from doing any advanced technique, some just might require more speed.

 

[onehunna]

Have any Falcons here experimented with stuff like up-throw > stomp? I figure this is a good way to rack damage while putting the opponent into another teching situation flat on the ground, maybe even allowing for a missed tech punish after the fact. Thoughts?

 

[Twinkles]

Have any Falcons here experimented with stuff like up-throw > stomp? I figure this is a good way to rack damage while putting the opponent into another teching situation flat on the ground, maybe even allowing for a missed tech punish after the fact. Thoughts?

If the fast-faller is at the percent to get hit with uthrow -> stomp straight up, they are also probably at the percent where uthrow -> knee/fsmash will kill or send them far enough off-stage that the edgeguard becomes trivial. It's not worth experimenting much with IMO because it's trivial to implement and offers little reward if it all to the tried and true options.

 

[DuckPimp]

its stuff to do if you're about to 4-stock them and want to crush them and make sure they quit playing smash cuz theyre so demoralized

 

[Da Shuffla]

"This game is about making top tier players quit because they lost to Captain Falcon." - Hax

 

[DuckPimp]

r.i.p. hax$

now all that is left is the $

 

[Da Shuffla]

Other Falcons are starting to step it up, though. I expected a mass exodus. So proud.

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

Hello guys, I'm rather new with Captain Falcon and was wondering if there are any guides similar to Ken's Marth Guide?

 

[bertbusdriver]

Hello guys, I'm rather new with Captain Falcon and was wondering if there are any guides similar to Ken's Marth Guide?

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-falcon-index-thread-new-post-of-the-week-by-magus.307911/
^This will have the answers to 99% of your basic questions about percents and matchups. Hasn't really been kept up to date, but should cover plenty for a newcomer.

There are some other stickied threads that are helpful.

 

[Da Shuffla]

So, M2K pulled out his CF at MLG. Didn't take any games, but I hope this becomes a regular thing. We need more high level reps.

 

[onehunna]

So, M2K pulled out his CF at MLG. Didn't take any games, but I hope this becomes a regular thing. We need more high level reps.

I really like Jason's Falcon, he's (of course) so on point with those re-grabs. He gets them when I never would have considered going for a grab in the first place. He can convert, too! Also had a very nice offstage dair (near) gimp early on in that match with PPMD I believe, around 8:27.

Praying to the Falcon gods this man puts some more work into the character. I think it was somewhere in an interview after his recent breakthrough against Hungybox, where Mew2King said he was (and I'm paraphrasing) 'trying to make the game fun again'. Based Zimmerman, this is your answer. The knee is. Hone the scoops. Percolate your nipple spikes. Show us the light.

 

[Da Shuffla]

M2K consistently using CF would do wonders for the Falcon meta. More people would start using him just from seeing him in top 3.

 

[Twinkles]

Lots of respect for Mew2king as a player.

Marginal respect for his Falcon. Besides watching him beat on Marths and cheesing out other Falcons in dittos, I have no interest in seeing more of it haha.

 

[Mokumo]

So I've been working on my pivot low-angled ftilts.

 

[looking guy]

when I do a full long wavedash backwards next to the ledge trying to edgehog with falcon and marth (I know this isn't marth discussion forum but it happens with him too) i would perform a perfect wavedash but also continue to fall off stage without grabbing the ledge. I have experimented with fox and falco and that doen't happen with them no matter how horizontal/long the wavedash is; I also know that if you hold the stick down (fast fall) whe trying to edgehog you won't be able to grab the ledge with any character, however i'm pretty sure I realease the stick pretty quickly and the direction I input is not low angled/downwards. SO does anyone know why this happens with falcon and marth??

 

[DecemberFourth]

S2J, I want you to know that you're my favorite falcon player of all time

-December Fourth

 

[Da Shuffla]

Pivoting with Falcon isn't just cool looking, it's essential to his gameplay. Gives him more options, and it's always good to give CF more options.

Looking Guy: I suggest returning the stick to neutral after you wd. You're probably holding it backward for too long and skipping the ledge. Definitely don't hold it down, because, as you said, that will cause you to miss the ledge.

 

[bertbusdriver]

I think I'm gonna start playing more sheik in friendlies to improve my patience and grab game. Especially regrab vs harder punish decision making...