Social C. Falcon Social

[Twinkles]

Congratulations to both of y'all. Keep grinding.

Got another question. Improving my micro game as Falcon. Where do I get started? Gentleman's is an obvious one, however beyond that I sometimes find myself panicking in close-up situations if I've whiffed an aerial, expecting a punish. My pivot grabs are improving, but I've been wondering if there are any other micro techniques or ideologies I should be keen to. What do you guys think of SHFFL'd stomp out of shield, or after a jab?

The micro is the crossroad of knowledge and experience because it's a lot of split-second reaction and decision making. You need to know what your opponents options are in the micro at the minute spacings (shine, jab, utilts, whatever), then you need the experience to not freeze up and react accordingly.

SHFFL stomp out of shield is good in certain situations. Falcon pulls up his body enough to dodge dtilts, shines, and even certain getup attacks if you time it right. It loses hard if they throw a move out to intercept it though. You usually can get a good idea about what option your opponent will go for based on their spacing (back towards you, slightly away = space animal utilt).

Jab -> SHFFL stomp beyond a jab reset punish is pretty gimmicky. Only use I could see for it would be mixups off jab -> grab if you've grabbed a lot after jabs and your opponent decides to get spotdodge-happy. But you could just wait and punish on reaction with almost anything.

 

[bertbusdriver]

So what exactly is the timing for missed tech stomps on spacies? I use it from time to time and almost always find myself not getting the pop-up from dair. I thought the general timing was once you see the green from impact, but is there anything more specific than that? And are there slow motion gifs of spacie tech rolls and stuff so I can learn the specific timings? Sorry for the specific question.

Basically, if they are touching the ground, it should pop up. My guess is that you are doing it too late if you're trying to do it during the initial green impact (since you could also get a pop-up if you hit them when they're no longer bouncing on the ground). You can go into training mode and do it on 1/4 speed to figure out how to time it.

When you miss the pop-up on the missed tech stomp, i'm pretty sure you can do a jab reset a healthy portion of the time.

 

[WINK ;)]

So... I never see anyone use tils... I see d-tilt every now and then but I hardly see Falcon tilts. Why? I use tilts to style sometimes but I never find an opportunity where it is "the" option to use. Thoughts?

Edit: How did I properly platform drop? Any threads or vids to refer me to?

 

[User101]

Im beginning to believe Captain Falcon isn't coming back

 

[Spaghetti]

Im beginning to believe Captain Falcon isn't coming back

nnnnnnnnnot with that attitude >

 

[DuckPimp]

Im beginning to believe Captain Falcon isn't coming back

he is. don't worry.

i have faith in gravy, darkflame, and myself, as well as the many other falcons who are grinding it out to get better

 

[bertbusdriver]

So... I never see anyone use tils... I see d-tilt every now and then but I hardly see Falcon tilts. Why? I use tilts to style sometimes but I never find an opportunity where it is "the" option to use. Thoughts?

Edit: How did I properly platform drop? Any threads or vids to refer me to?

angled ftilts and utilt are pretty solid edgeguards depending on the situation. I see s2j using dtilt sometimes, not sure why given that it never seems to convert into anything good. Overall, shouldn't be using too many tilts as falcon though. His normals are pretty meh.

 

[DuckPimp]

dtilt is generally used as a little trick to try and mess up fastfallers teching your uthrow

other than that there isnt much immediate use

 

[Spaghetti]

angled ftilts and utilt are pretty solid edgeguards depending on the situation. I see s2j using dtilt sometimes, not sure why given that it never seems to convert into anything good. Overall, shouldn't be using too many tilts as falcon though. His normals are pretty meh.

when people say normals do they just mean ground moves? because falcon's jab is pretty dope

 

[bertbusdriver]

when people say normals do they just mean ground moves? because falcon's jab is pretty dope

pretty much, i take it to mean jabs + tilts since people usually specify smashes. Falcon's jab isn't bad, but it's not that good either.

 

[Twinkles]

is there ANY situation where falcon's bthrow does anything even remotely USEFUL?

 

[carnivore]

is there ANY situation where falcon's bthrow does anything even remotely USEFUL?

I've done the M2K/Jman gimp a few times with it (standing at the ledge, back throw them off, read their jump with a stomp). Works when you've got the read on your opponent that they're gonna panic jump because they're afraid of losing or afraid you're making a comeback or something. Plus they probably weren't expecting to be back thrown (probably forgot what Falcon's bthrow even looks like), might mess up their DI or reaction.

 

[Spaghetti]

you can also bthrow nana during a popo side b to next level freeze yourself

the REAL tournament winner

 

[WINK ;)]

How do you do the platform drops fast? Like the isai drop?

 

[Twinkles]

How do you do the platform drops fast? Like the isai drop?

I think the Isai drop is only for dropping faster during normal landing (no aerial) onto a platform. If you land with an L-cancelled aerial on a platform, you drop just by pressing down. I think s2j also presses down a second time to get a fast-fall.

 

[xJin678]

I think the Isai drop is only for dropping faster during normal landing (no aerial) onto a platform. If you land with an L-cancelled aerial on a platform, you drop just by pressing down. I think s2j also presses down a second time to get a fast-fall.

Not exactly. Isai Dropping is when you press Diagonal Down after normal landing (no aerials during landing) on a platform. Typically after normal landing, there's a small duration where pressing Down will not make you drop. Isai Dropping circumvents this duration and you can drop as soon as you land on the platform

 

[Twinkles]

Not exactly. Isai Dropping is when you press Diagonal Down after normal landing (no aerials during landing) on a platform. Typically after normal landing, there's a small duration where pressing Down will not make you drop. Isai Dropping circumvents this duration and you can drop as soon as you land on the platform

It's cuz walking cancels the normal landing animation, no?

 

[xJin678]

It's cuz walking cancels the normal landing animation, no?

Probably. You could also Shai Drop (press down THEN shield) on the platform, which is faster than Isai Dropping. I recall there was a big thread about this for those who haven't heard of Shai Dropping.

http://smashboards.com/threads/shai-drop-update-detailed-guide-frame-data.322062/

 

[WINK ;)]

Thank you both!

 

[bertbusdriver]

ughhh played at a tournament yesterday after an all nighter. Didn't go too well.

 

[Twinkles]

ughhh played at a tournament yesterday after an all nighter. Didn't go too well.

I did better in friendlies with a secondary than with Falcon. I feel gross.

 

[bertbusdriver]

I did better in friendlies with a secondary than with Falcon. I feel gross.

I know that feel man. I've been playing some fox (mostly just techskill practice alone) to destress so I can press more buttons. There are a bunch of spacies and sheiks that I run into that are way easier with my crappy fox, especially if I'm a little off-rhythm with my falcon that day. I think my main issue is that I'm currently a lot better at retaining pressure/stage control with fox even after I miss a read, whereas my falcon gets crushed as soon as I don't get my juicy knee combos.

 

[WINK ;)]

I did better in friendlies with a secondary than with Falcon. I feel gross.

As you should!

 

[Twinkles]

I know that feel man. I've been playing some fox (mostly just techskill practice alone) to destress so I can press more buttons. There are a bunch of spacies and sheiks that I run into that are way easier with my crappy fox, especially if I'm a little off-rhythm with my falcon that day. I think my main issue is that I'm currently a lot better at retaining pressure/stage control with fox even after I miss a read, whereas my falcon gets crushed as soon as I don't get my juicy knee combos.

Yeah, I think the problem with my falcon is also control. My biggest issue is retaining a lead. I watched my vids, my biggest issue was getting massive leads then watching all of them burn up lol. I need to get better at not blowing stocks away just because I'm up a stock or two.

 

[Zhea]

The biggest difference between Falcon and every other top tier is he has nothing "Easy" to fall back on.

When not on point, other top tiers can fall back on smashes, tilts or dash attacks to punish mistakes and net opportunistic kills. Other characters are harder to edgeguard, meaning sloppy edgeguarding won't cost them stocks. He has no "cheese" like Peach dsmash, shine spiking, needles or lasers that grind up sloppy play.

Falcon is the amalgamation of you're fundamentals. He has all tools you need to outplay some one but none of the forgiveness. HomeMadeWaffles phrased it best "Falco has Microsoft Office 2012. Falcon has a type write with no whiteout. He makes a mistake he has to throw the whole page out."


Taking a hiatus from falcon this summer. Testing out the bird. Looking for answers. Hope to see some great things from Gathzu, Gravy and Thumbs. It feels like the return of the old trifecta.

 

[BTmoney]

nah his problem is that he can't reset neutral once he gets hit and he has poop for oos

 

[Broccoli_Rob]

The biggest difference between Falcon and every other top tier is he has nothing "Easy" to fall back on.

When not on point, other top tiers can fall back on smashes, tilts or dash attacks to punish mistakes and net opportunistic kills. Other characters are harder to edgeguard, meaning sloppy edgeguarding won't cost them stocks. He has no "cheese" like Peach dsmash, shine spiking, needles or lasers that grind up sloppy play.

Falcon is the amalgamation of you're fundamentals. He has all tools you need to outplay some one but none of the forgiveness. HomeMadeWaffles phrased it best "Falco has Microsoft Office 2012. Falcon has a type write with no whiteout. He makes a mistake he has to throw the whole page out."


Taking a hiatus from falcon this summer. Testing out the bird. Looking for answers. Hope to see some great things from Gathzu, Gravy and Thumbs. It feels like the return of the old trifecta.

I like this a lot. Obviously I'm new on the boards (and new to competitive smash) but I've been playing Falcon for a while now, and you articulated very well what makes him such a (usually fun) challenge. What was it about Isai's Falcon that was so dominant? Watching film of him made me feel like he just stayed right ON TOP of people and wouldn't let them breathe, much less plan a counter-attack.

 

[Brookman]

Falcon is really good at covering large distances fast. He really sucks at covering small distances fast without WD.

pivot and/or shield.

 

[net1234]

Hello my fellow falcon players *shifty eyes* i was just wondering about throw conversions on marth and how they should di if they dont wanna get hit.

 

[DuckPimp]

generally away, but we have some nasty throw conversions on you guys anyways

you should be thinking more along the lines of how to not get grabbed, honestly

once we have a grab on marth its really really bad for you, but if you keep us out by stuffing our approaches and things like that it gets really difficult for us

 

[net1234]

generally away, but we have some nasty throw conversions on you guys anyways

you should be thinking more along the lines of how to not get grabbed, honestly

once we have a grab on marth its really really bad for you, but if you keep us out by stuffing our approaches and things like that it gets really difficult for us

is there any kind of upthrow downthrow mixup on outwards DI?

 

[DuckPimp]

not really, if i understand you correctly

uthrow is always better v marth after like 30 percent

until later percents where dthrow knee can happen sometimes

 

[SAUS]

I like this a lot. Obviously I'm new on the boards (and new to competitive smash) but I've been playing Falcon for a while now, and you articulated very well what makes him such a (usually fun) challenge. What was it about Isai's Falcon that was so dominant? Watching film of him made me feel like he just stayed right ON TOP of people and wouldn't let them breathe, much less plan a counter-attack.

People play the game differently now. It's not to say Isai wouldn't be able to be good at this game now if he kept playing, but I doubt it would look at all similar. Even if it is Isai, watching 5+ year-old footage is not going to be very useful for learning this game (or at least not for finding out what to do in lots of situations).

 

[Zhea]

D-throw and either follow with instant u-air if they don't DI down and away, or tech chase until 30. U-throw and chase with u-air across the stage. Once they are around 50 or you u-air them to around then, u-air to knee. At 70% you can u-throw knee any DI until at least 90. If they DI up or behind you can extend that knee range from like 60 to 110. If marth ever jumps out or fairs you, you were too slow.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Just a regular reminder for our newer members.... Most of your questions on these boards are answered HERE. Most of us don't mind answering repeat questions here since they sometimes lead to meaningful discussion and it's understandable that smashboards is difficult to search for specific pieces of information, but I'm guessing all of the regulars are getting tired of answering how to gentleman for the 1000th time. Plus you'll get your answer faster.

 

[Alexo30]

Is Ftilt a better option than Dtilt? I was told that I use Dtilt too much. I really only use it after a spaced aerial, kinda keeping them honest. Maybe I should just cut the tilts out? If so, what is the best option in this situation(after a spaced aerial)?

 

[T-R3X]

Is Ftilt a better option than Dtilt? I was told that I use Dtilt too much. I really only use it after a spaced aerial, kinda keeping them honest. Maybe I should just cut the tilts out? If so, what is the best option in this situation(after a spaced aerial)?

Nair or gentleman.
Tilts are kinda situational. They can work as edgeguards and after throws pretty well. That being said don't feel the need to restrict them to just those roles.

 

[Da Shuffla]

I've been messing with Utilt recently. Very underused

 

[carnivore]

Is Ftilt a better option than Dtilt? I was told that I use Dtilt too much. I really only use it after a spaced aerial, kinda keeping them honest. Maybe I should just cut the tilts out? If so, what is the best option in this situation(after a spaced aerial)?

I've been fiddling with the idea of ftilt after cross-ups or spaced hits on shield. Ftilt comes out on frame 9 (faster than any aerial) and finishes after 29 frames (duration of a non-fastfalled short hop). I think it's underrated in speed.

And even if you don't space it well, it's still a mix up that keeps them honest like you said. They can't just jump out of shield with an attack every time their shield gets hit, have to think about whether or not an ftilt is coming too. They guess wrong then they stay in shield for too long, letting you transition into a threatening movement or they could take some damage and lose position.

Course the main problem is that ftilt leads to nothing except for a knockdown on fastfallers. It's just good for spacing and getting people off of you if you don't have a strong follow up.

On a related note I guess, I think down angle'd ftilt is the best sweet spot ledge guard (like spacie's side-b). Comes out faster than utilt, hits the same spot, knocks them away (where as dtilt can be DI'd away to avoid follow ups), and feels like it covers to center-stage/high Illusions better because it has a hitbox along your leg and center.

 

[Zhea]

In what regard?
Dtilt at high percents is a free knee on a majority of the cast, but is slow and laggy. Ftilt is a relatively fast ground move for falcon, but is easily cc'd and only combos into things when di'd poorly and is easy to punish. Neither are good edge guard options as neither scrape below the ledge. They have use as tech traps off of poorly di'd side-b's or up throws on space animals. That's why you used to see so much Dtilt out of Darkrain. Ah the glory days when no one understood how to DI falcon's throws.