NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
Any advice against marth would be awesome. Mainly how to approach and get in.
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Zhea
Smash Ace
Check out the Falcon Index under Marth. Gives you pretty much the same advice we would give you.
Zhea
Smash Ace
Fox is our worst matchup. Up and away is the best for up smash/uair/utlit s while down and away is great to get out of nair plane juggles at low/mid percents. Falcon is heavy, and can afford to abuse up di against Fox to put himself in better recovery situations off stage for longer amounts of time. Mind you even with the best DI, if Fox get's the right read against Falcon you are going to eat 50-60%. The good news is while gimping Falcon is easy, killing him off a blast zone is hard and he can live well past 130 as long as fox can't land a solid upair/upsmash. So abuse that.
bertbusdriver
Smash Ace
like zhea said, look at the index thread. ****ty marths always overcommit; space yourself to whiff punish them/shield non tipper attacks into punish. Learn all of your grab auto combos and how to string hits in after uairs. Watch hax's falcon vs marth and take note of his punish game.
If they're only barely going to make it back on stage during edgeguard situations, it should always result in death via ledgehop stomp->reverse knee or ledgehop reverse knee or ledgehog. Reverse ledgehop regrab (making him do the backflip) allows you to dodge marth's upB and regrab the ledge before he can make it back.
Having a lot of trouble fitting melee into my life right now but also craving it more than ever...
So I have a strange problem with my nairs. I can get the first hit to connect, but the second hit is too low to connect. I know the second hit is coming out because it connects on shield but if they don't shield it misses. I know it could be di but it happens on level 1 computers, which I don't think di. Should I do them slower or what?
D
Deleted member
Guest
I'd had the same problem when I first started playing. I'm not good on advice, but I started popping them off the second I short hopped and I only L Canceled instead of Fast Falling then L Cancelling. That seem to work for me, but don't quote me on this. I'd wait for the more experienced players to enter this thread.
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
jason diehl is a fraudulent german-american falconer. mad cause bad.
Equal
Smash Apprentice
Went to a tournament this weekend. I lost to a Marth that I shouldn't have lost to. The first game I had a solid 3 stock on him. Then the next two games as soon as he got a grab he was tech chasing me like crazy. Like seriously he would tech chase me a minimum of 6-7 times each grab he would land. Everything else was generally close but I'm positive that was the only reason I ended up losing, he got wayyy to much free damage that way.
Is Marth's D-throw really a viable tech chase option or am I doing something seriously wrong? I was trying to mix up DI and teching patterns (and no teching) but most of the time that didn't matter. Halp pls I'm so salty that I lost to that Marth
Is Marth's D-throw really a viable tech chase option or am I doing something seriously wrong? I was trying to mix up DI and teching patterns (and no teching) but most of the time that didn't matter. Halp pls I'm so salty that I lost to that Marth
Zhea
Smash Ace
DI behind him for D-Throw and buffer roll with the c-stick. If he does it perfectly then he'll get it, if not he whiffs and you get out of the chase. if he starts waiting start teching in place.
bertbusdriver
Smash Ace
this isn't totally right. fast falling isn't a binary operation. You can and should mix up your aerial and fast fall timings. In the case of falcon's nair, a fast falling ASAP will lead to the second hit not connecting, but a partial fast fall will be much more optimal than not fast falling at all in most cases for the sake of followups and flexible spacing....
Dthrow near the ledge is very viable as a tech-chase option for Marth, because he has fairly flow-chart methods for covering every single option. You're going to have to trick him to get out of it, but here's some things that I keep in mind if this happens to me.
1. If I DI into the stage and tech-roll in, Marth gets a free regrab, but at least I get away from the ledge and out of a potentially nasty edgeguarding scenario, even if I have to eat 20-30% to do so. Also, I think you can inch away from the edge like this, which gives you a bit more room to mixup techs.
2. Tech-in-place to buffer roll is my usual go-to option in this scenario. The tech-in-place is fast, so it can be surprisingly difficult for many people to punish. If they know how to punish though, you hafta mix it up more.
3. Tech-towards-ledge is very ballzy and I recommend it if you're feeling very confident you'll trick the Marth. Being real though, this is where Falcon's long tech-roll hurts the most, because Marth'll have enough time to react, run up at you going towards the ledge, and then presumably grab -> throw you offstage -> edgeguard you. IMO the worst option in this situation, but in tech-chasing scenarios, sometimes the worst option is just what you need to get out.
Also keep in mind that sometimes there's nothing you can do about tech-chase grabs. Try to get out, but keep your cool. Make sure to punish your opponent harder than they punish you, or make sure you get more punishes than they do. Falcon has his own throw BS on marth as well.
Zhea
Smash Ace
You can touch their butt. That almost always gets people to drop tech chases.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
holding shield and cstick makes you roll on the first frame possible- so if you wanted to buffer roll from a tech you just press and hold shield + cstick direction any time during the techroll
IFalconpunch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
- Messages
- 5
its weird I only really use uair in falcon dittos because it beats nair approach, im not good enough with it to be able to hit fox, does it beat out his nair?
IFalconpunch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
- Messages
- 5
I honestly feel like falcon marth is 65/45, its super easy to 0 to death marth off one touch, slow tech roll, combo food, his moves are super laggy and gentlemen on shield is super scary, sure marth has a super easy edge guard off falcon but who doesn't, falcon being super fast and easy combo's make it ezpz, and CC kind of obliterates marth.
just DD camp and get a grab, if you can hit marths shield with an aerial you should be able to mix up gentlemen/more aerials and get a grab. I played a lot of marths in friendlies at apex and across the board this has been pretty consistent for me at least
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Only the instant one does as far as i know.
bertbusdriver
Smash Ace
Look at the hitboxes and hurtboxes for falcon's uair and fox's nair.
http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-hitboxes-and-frame-data.284165/
http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-fox-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285177/
Basically, falcon's uair will beat out fox's nair if you get it out early and low enough to hit him with the front 1/4th of your uair hitbox. Otherwise, the fox gets in the hit with his nair as he gets a lot more room for error to line up his hitboxes with your hurtboxes than it is for you to do the opposite..
Keep in mind that falcon's uair has 7 frames of hitboxes. I'd guess that only the first 2-3 are suitable to hit fox out of his nair with. On the other hand, fox's nair has 27 frames of hitboxes that stay roughly the same for most of it. Granted, in the scenario of SHFFL vs SHFFL, the 27 frame thing doesn't matter since you'd use less than the whole thing, just need to know that the hitboxes are about the same for most of the effective nair time.
http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-hitboxes-and-frame-data.284165/
http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-fox-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285177/
Basically, falcon's uair will beat out fox's nair if you get it out early and low enough to hit him with the front 1/4th of your uair hitbox. Otherwise, the fox gets in the hit with his nair as he gets a lot more room for error to line up his hitboxes with your hurtboxes than it is for you to do the opposite..
Keep in mind that falcon's uair has 7 frames of hitboxes. I'd guess that only the first 2-3 are suitable to hit fox out of his nair with. On the other hand, fox's nair has 27 frames of hitboxes that stay roughly the same for most of it. Granted, in the scenario of SHFFL vs SHFFL, the 27 frame thing doesn't matter since you'd use less than the whole thing, just need to know that the hitboxes are about the same for most of the effective nair time.
If they don't CC, yeah it's a thing
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Easiest way to lose to anybody, FYI
Do you mean you only use the instant up-airs in the ditto? Falcon's up-air is amazing and you should use it in all matchups at some point. You can basically use it to carry your opponent off the stage once you have them in the air. It's a great way to tech chase when your opponent lands on a platform as well because it covers a lot of area and follow-ups off of it are easy.
IFalconpunch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
- Messages
- 5
my bad, I meant as an anti approach, I don't really post often but im not too horrible
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No worriesmy bad, I meant as an anti approach, I don't really post often but im not too horrible
I just read it and was thinking "he must know the truth!".
Zhea
Smash Ace
Aaaaaaaaugh Johnny learn to shield drop, watching these SSS's of you vs WB is killing me!
Seetoe
Smash Rookie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4oVTfjG8eE
YO this set was amazing to watch. This was a hugely informative video. Double jab to short hop knee, pulling back those nairs for spacing, how to escape a shining Falco. Every time I see a Captain falling behind on stocks I ask "Is the captain grabbing" and sure enough I noticed when Johnny started grabbing again he came back. MAN. I love this video, bookmark'd fo sho.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
location of vids?
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive
watch the VODs on this channel, top 8 for Melee happened on day 3 of SCR
Dan -Zodiac-
Smash Apprentice
Shielded Falco d-tilt outside of shield-grab range, any possible punish? WD OoS jab was just barely slower than his shield coming up and instant uair OoS was going over his head, but I for sure ain't frame-perfect so idk.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
fadeaway nair oos is probably safest bet, idk of anything guaranteed in that situation
Stijn
Smash Cadet
http://www.twitch.tv/saltyplayground/b/509243345
At 01:59:32
Sup guys, I'm a Fox main who has been wanting to use Falcon as a secondary lately. I haven't really used him often, so I thought maybe you guys can give me some tips on my neutral game and stuff. Can someone also tell me what was good and what wasn't?
At 01:59:32
Sup guys, I'm a Fox main who has been wanting to use Falcon as a secondary lately. I haven't really used him often, so I thought maybe you guys can give me some tips on my neutral game and stuff. Can someone also tell me what was good and what wasn't?
So I went to my first tournament yesterday, and fully expecting to go 0-2, I was pleasantly surprised to go 2-2. I also got a bunch of friendlies in with some really good players and still ended with a winning record in friendlies (not against DoH he 3 stocked me a bunch.) One big weakness I noticed in my game was edgeguarding against sheik. A lot of the time, I would roll onto the ledge to hog, and they would teleport straight up, and still be able to grab the ledge after they floated down to it. Also, they would teleport onto the platforms of battlefield or dreamland and I wouldn't be able to stomp. Anyone have tips for edgeguarding sheik?
Gahtzu
Smash Journeyman
got bracket bopped GG
shoutouts to 1st seed not mattering @ rom
shoutouts to 1st seed not mattering @ rom
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Zhea
Smash Ace
Good **** Gahtzu. I was really impressed at apex when you were MM Johnny, but your performance at ROM against DJ was amazing. You and Thumbs are definitely on the rise.
Against Shiek, try to just do the regular get-up from the ledge. If timed correctly, it will still kill them if they try to go straight at the edge. You can also try to set it up so you are invincible during Shiek's up-B explosion which allows you to be quite sloppy with the get-up. You should be able to punish their choice from there (steal the edge again if they went straight up, something like stomp->knee otherwise or just knee if high damage already). If they are up-B'ing from far away and want to try to trick you with either landing on the ground or going straight to the edge (ie the explosion will not hit you), then just sit there and wait. You can punish them landing on the stage on reaction with edge-hop stomp>knee or edge-hop reverse knee.