Bust a Move/Puzzle Bobble Mafia..... GAME OVER!

[Kantrip]

That was me not realizing he was still referring to my hypothetical shot.

 

[Jdietz43]

That was me not realizing he was still referring to my hypothetical shot.

K, just checking.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I feel like a 12man game that also has an Indy would have to only have a 2 man mafia, especially if town does have a vig (which we prolly don't since nobody died).

The odds are very good that Ryu was the other mafia, and we're now just dealing with our abductor. The question is, do we think JDietz is that abductor? Otherwise, why are we killing him?

Unvote

I wanna hear tako's defense of him.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

EBWOP: especially if town *doesn't* have a vig

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Day Two:
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

JDietz(2): Kantrip, BarBelL
BSP(1): JDitz


Not Voting(7): Orbo, SneakyTako, BSP, Vinyl., Riddle, Rake, PB&J

Deadline is set to: September 26th, 11:59PM MST

 

[#HBC | Joker]

What would you guys say if I told you that I got some really REALLY icky feelings from Kantrip trying to push JD's lynch as fast as it would go? Why try to force a quicklynch? Those are literally never a good thing for Town.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

The only four people I'd consider lynching at this exact moment are JDietz, Orboknown, BSP, and Rake.

No to lynching orbo before he gets in here, that's just dumb.

Why BSP ?

2nd underlined: Come at me bro.

JDietz - Hasn't done much of anything has far as providing new or useful information to town. His argument with Joker was strange and his focus on the mason claims doesn't make any sense to me as a pro-town move beyond getting some extra information, and that does not feel like what JD's goal was.

Explain how it was stranger than me being stuck on it

Orboknown - I'd rather this slot be shot, but if Orboknown starts contributing and anything he says strikes me as even remotely anti-town, I'd lynch him in a heartbeat. Toaster skated through all of Day 1 with absolutely no useful input, and I have no reason at all to see him as a townie at this point. Hopefully Orb is able to change my opinion.

Ew.

BSP - All of BSP's reads feel very safe and pro-status quo. Based on his meta (i've read MLP and we were both in HxH) this isn't unlike his town play, but it's also highly reminiscent of the kind of caution that mafia often uses when "scumhunting."

Describes my read on you perfectly. Excluding the meta stuff.

Rake - Rake gives me a little bit of a bad vibe, but nothing major. He seems to be trying to look like an active and contributing player, while providing very few original reads. Some meta would be appreciated on Rake, but he just strikes me as a little off. Definitely a low priority for now though.

Except where i started the tako wagon. Why is sheeping bad for you anyhow, i've substantiated every wagon i've been on.

Rake, thoughts on this?

JD made me facepalm.

Bardull/Rake: Talk to me about the pros and cons of a mass-claim. Assuming 2 scum and an abductor with the possibility of Ryuscum right now, is it worth mass-claiming to find the abductor?

Pro's: Not much beyond finding out other PR's which isn't really a pro because people are kind of assuming Ryu was scum. Which if it's true would be hilarious and would explain his odd as hell hard on for me end of D1, he also never even answered beyond catching up why he never voiced his suspicions of me before.

Con's: Pretty much everyone is going to claim VT anyway.

Rake/Orbo, I require your assistance. Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

I haven't seen JD be derpy like this before, but it's possible he hadn't read or w/e and went into hard head mode.

194

Red Ryu

JDietz43
Orboknown
Vinyl.
Bardull
SneakyTako
PrivateJoker-Brown
Anomandaris_Rake
BSP
Riddle

I honestly think this entire game is a wrap. I'm thinking the abductor is in Jdietz/Orbo. Maybe Vinyl if he has a BP of some calibre which would explain why he claimed doc (though I don't know if he'd think to go for town points like that so I doubt indyVinyl), then assuming Red Ryu comes back into the game we kill him and that should be it.

I don't see this day ending any other way regardless of Orbo/Rake contributions, honestly.

I'm going to ask you the same question i did in Utrik'd, why is JD scum over being hard headed.

I've never hunted for an indie before, I don't know how I'd even go about that. I assume it'd be REALLY hard because sometimes their wincon can be achieved by literally just playing a perfect town game and living until the end.

I don't think an Indy role would be very balanced in a closed setup since rooting them out means looking for very specific things, and if we don't know to look for them, there's no way we'd ever catch them without it being an accident.

Indies are balanced as hell.
Annoying as hell too.

Is the abductor an indy role? I don't really get what they do. All I can tell is that they seem to abduct people for a day and remove them from the game. Do they come back tomorrow? Do they abduct someone every night? What's their typical win con? I don't get it

They abduct people until they die / get killed.

Does it make sense for an indy to have abduct if their holding capacity is limited? It seems like their endgame would be very limited.

Also, what happens to the people that are abducted if the abductor gets killed?

There's no limit on abducts usually.

The people go free / are let back into the game.

I'm also ruling out Bardull as Abductor, and I'd say Rake too but that's only based on his D1 presence. An indy wouldn't want to be seen as a driving force or be viewed as too pro-town because then they're a scum kill target.

You obviously haven't read Ryu's disney mafia or Utrik'd.

I think Rake was pretty out there for Indy play

See: Utrik'd / Ryu's Disney mafia.

Does Doc protect you from abduction?

No, that would require jailer.

Point of note : I asked vinyl. if he was a jailer, because then if there was a cop and they wifom'd to bardull, it would be useless. Seeing jailer more likely than doc in this set-up, vinyl claiming doc now just pointless wifom.

Damn, you raise a good point. I really hope (but also doubt) that the abductor has FULL BP, it's most likely one-shot.

The thing with Bardull is that he had Vinyl claim doc and say "I am protecting Bardull". Unless Vinyl is scum and sent the shot to Bardull, I doubt scum would've risked it.

However, this puts Rake back in my sights. It's possible he came in with gusto and led town D1 to look really pro-town and ride it out, and then absorbed a shot in the Night and is now going to stop being super pro-town now that his protection is gone. This is just wild speculation and him not being here is more likely just happenstance, but thanks for reminding me of that regardless.

Nice 180 bro, wanna explain why you needed another player to remind you if i was already in your sights ? Probably because you didn't have any reason to bring me up until another player did.

Also lol at my D1 being pro-town. I feel like i should write up a case on my own play D1.

Frankly, choosing Red Ryu was really stupid on the abductor's part. It makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. Red Ryu was a high lynch target, someone an indy, who doesn't want to get lynched, would want to keep around. It just makes no sense.

newb-Indy mistake IMO.
Also surviving as indy > worrying too too much about ML's of course you try to get em, but when it comes down to abduction, at least when i was one, i largely used wifom to chose who i got.

Ok finished my hyper-skim, I don't know how many crazy pills I took before I took my nap today... but upon actually bothering to read here's my admittedly less ridiculous thoughts.

If we take Tako being silly and not scum for granted (which at this point I am), we're basically left with BSP, Rake, Vinyl, and Orbo left as suspicious. Ryu Scum was a good probability.

Bardull, Kantrip, Riddle, and Joker essentially cleared.


I see BSP and Rake as the higher priorities out of the four left. BSP has been making a nasty habit of piggybacking the whims of others, while I want to give him a little benefit of the doubt because he echos concerns many of us might have in the back of our heads: he doesn't seem to want to claim ownership of them. He seems pretty content letting the JDietz's of the game shout them for him and just add in a "here here!" in the hopes it goes somewhere. The amount of different stances he's supported weakly is considerable, including things like echoing my Bardull shot questions, Kantrip concerns, and others.

Rake I'd also like to give benefit of the doubt because I know he has the propensity to think nearly exactly like I do, but on the re-read it's clear he's invested too much into only one or two issues to press. I'm a bit more used to seeing Rake pressing evenly across the board, it's hard to explain, but it's a bit BSP like.

Vinyl is just silly.

Orbo is just null.

When I'm gone: BSP>Rake>Vinyl/Orbo

Based on BSP and RR's interactions at the end of D1, I find it most likely if RR is scum BSP is his partner.

Underlined: Come at me bro.

Everything else:

We are not lynching orbo before he provides content, if one more person tries to push this, I will tunnel them into the ground.

Tako forced me to be focused on him, also did you miss the parts where i mentioned considering BSP / some other slot as scum ?

What connections between BSP and RR suggest this ?
How do they make sense with 194 as a third ?

You should fight more ,giving up isn't very becoming of you.

What would you guys say if I told you that I got some really REALLY icky feelings from Kantrip trying to push JD's lynch as fast as it would go? Why try to force a quicklynch? Those are literally never a good thing for Town.

I would say QL'ing isn't necessarily scummy, but it's pretty dumb and usually is anti-town more-so than scummy. Depending on how the Ql goes down. Explain why kantrp is scum over hard-headed / dumb about it.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Oh yeah: Vote Kantrip

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

2nd Oh yeah: @Riddle: Explain what you thought JD was using his posts.
As in a full explanation.

I wonder if Bardull actually had a gun if he would shoot who i want to kill right now

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

^EBWOP: Explain what you think his goal was

 

[BSP]

Dietz, explain to me how you have Riddle cleared

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Yo: Dietz , your reminding me a little of your tekken play, so help me out here explain some stuff:

1: How is riddle cleared ?
2: Your focusing too much on Bardull's gambit Y/N ?
3: IS bardull scum gambiting y/n ?
4: Why would he gambit like this ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

While I'm at it:

@people who had me as town / null town day 1; go into that read and why you felt that way. You cannot mention getting information as a reason.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Yo: Dietz , your reminding me a little of your tekken play, so help me out here explain some stuff:

1: How is riddle cleared ?
2: Your focusing too much on Bardull's gambit Y/N ?
3: IS bardull scum gambiting y/n ?
4: Why would he gambit like this ?

Also:

5) Why is vinyl scum over dumb and why lynch him over it.
b) how do you even have vinyl as someone who can go, and why would he gambit a doc claim ? As in , how does the timing of it make sense at all.

 

[BSP]

@Kantrip - can you go into more depth on your opinions on BSP and Riddle

I'm not sure where you're getting your trust of Riddle from (ie you put him mad green), and I'm not sure why you trust me so much. So far, I've seen 3 people (Rake offered the possibility, Dietz thinks I'm scum, and Riddle is worried about me too) speculate me as scum or anti-town from my play so far.

Why do you trust us so much?

 

[sneakytako]

Ok WRT JD first I have to explain some background.

JD, Joker, Toast and I just played in Newbie Cave Story together, where I was scum and they were all town. Day 1 I make a play in which I ask who was the strongest player, then immidiately cast my vote on them. I explain by doing this I both get a read on the strongest player and react to any votes against them. I also explain that any votes against me that didn't invovle strong logic was null.

To sum it up I made a weak trap that I fully explain later to earn the trust of town.

Now I consider JD's play in this game.

This post in particular won me over.

You can't not understand a role you use as evidence in a bullet pointed case this long:





I'll bet any money he picked this course of action because

1) Look like he was doing something productive and scumhunting
2) Paint suspicion on a slot, making their normal "recourse" of proving they weren't a chatterbox to stop posting entirely for a long time
3) The one thing he failed to notice about the chatterbox restriction is that it isn't used in non OS settings

Yes, he was probably misinformed. But not about chatterbox or who usually gets the role (that he figured out easily enough to make a push), but about the games that it's used in which renders his ammo worthless. It's an important difference.

You don't "forget" about a role that you then claim to have known well enough to quote the idea of a Town Chatterbox as "blasphemous", which is what he's claiming. For you to have a good enough idea of a role to consider something about it's misuse "blasphemous" you'd have to REALLY know the role, and for a long time. We know for certain he has not known about Chatterbox long, as he was unaware of the fact it's a role OS made up.

Logic follows he can't have known all about Chatterbox for a long time (he's new here), and also claim to "forget" that it's not a scum role as well. The idea that he skimmed for roles to use as an RVS tool, found Chatterbox, thought it would work nicely, and didn't realize the caveat he was creating for his SWF mafia knowledge is far more reasonable than the idea what he's saying is true at face value.

He suspects that I was doing the same thing day 1 with my chatterbox play. I would go so far to say that he suspects that the entire play was to earn town favor, he wants people to distrust me. If you look at just the results of day 1 I can say that indeed I did gain enough town favor to keep me from lynched for awhile (to which I owe Joker, well played bro), while scummy enough to make both mason unfavorable to NK.

If he was scum, he wouldn't have kept pushing my lynch when the majority had written off my play as dumbtown and wanted to move on. I think he is actually afraid that I might be pulling one over on him again, proof of that can be seen that he still doesn't believe me in day 2. He goes to great lengths to paint me as scum to the point where people find the information not helpful, which I find more town than scum.

Regarding his day 2 play, going against Bardul would be quite risky as scum, calling for lynch for no shot on the strongest day 1 town would be too risky considering 194 had died day 1. I don't trust Bardul either since he was the leader of day 1, but indeed JD did push too hard and he had to retreat. But he did get Bardul to confirm that he is not a Vig, which is somewhat notable imo. Day 2 I can understand him seeming scummy, but I see it more as paranoia against Bardul.




BUT THIS IS WHERE THE BAD NEWS STARTS JD

After considering what happened with RR abduct last night, I've been trying to consider who and why someone would abduct RR. It was apparent by the end of day 1 RR was our first batter's to lynch day 2, my initial thought was that the Indy may be super confident he can win on his own.

But now that I think about it, from my perspective the best abduct would have been either Joker or myself, more-so Joker. With my play in Day 1 I considered us impervious to NK since our flip would confirm the other's alignment, with the exception of a double NK on both of us which was unlikely. But an abduct would totally ruin this strat as if Joker was abducted, I would have no case to say I was town. He could potentially eliminate both mason's with one play.

If you consider that the chances of Joker and I being doced weren't great with Bardul around, who would want to abduct RR over Joker?

If JD still suspects that I'm scum during twilight then he can't afford to abduct Joker, because unlike Bardul he doesn't have a strong town position and he can't afford to have me lynched if I'm scum and he's Indy all by himself.

All things considered I still think JD isn't scum, but I suspect he might be Indy. The same indy logic appliies to Rake as well, but he has a littlle bit better town position though imo.

Now that I'm reading this to myself I feel really scummy but I suspect those who have a weak position in town who still believe me as scum more than RR as Indy, based off of RR abduct.

Lmao.

@JD: How do you feel about Rake being possible Indy.

@Everyone else What is our priority, determining if any scum remain or hunting the indy? I'm more afraid of indy atm.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

we do both at the same time.

 

[Orboknown]

I'm 100% the 1-shot Vigilante this game and I have no intentions of retracting.

Vinyl's read on me is hilarious.

found it hilarious he retracted it today.

I considered the abductor possibility when I saw the flavor, but Janitor came to mind. Don't know what other roles are there that work similarly to abductor, but I don't think they're a stretch from the truth.

No comment on abductor pool for the time being. I have some ideas, but no reason to out them just yet.

janitor wouldn't say "gone missing, there would just say "person x, ???? has died.

Finding the abductor is going to be a ****ing nightmare then. It could be anybody, because that wincon can VERY easily achieved by playing a solid town game. That means anybody that we read as solid Town is now possible Indy. I think Tako and I are the only ones really off the hook there, and that's not nearly comforting enough for me.

indies need to live, unless jesters.

Frankly, choosing Red Ryu was really stupid on the abductor's part. It makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. Red Ryu was a high lynch target, someone an indy, who doesn't want to get lynched, would want to keep around. It just makes no sense.

unless the indy is someone ryu can read well? just a thought.

Rake/Orbo, I require your assistance. Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

On?

I didn't even bother reading this, because you've obviously missed the main point. Which is that he was 100% wrong about how the role functioned, and pushing a Rake case based on something he knew to be false would be just about the stupidest course of action ever. He obviously did NOT understand the role, and thought he was making a legitimate push. Being dumb =/= scummy

man, the mason thing and current NA situation is the only saving grace for you.

I really want BSP to be scum here . :/

why?

@kantrip-rake/bardull town, JD townlean, dislike PJB and take but ehhh.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

also, if you really think i am indy, you have no idea how i play indy.
I woulda taking Bardull bar none yesterday as indy, not least due to the fact he could be a vig claiming day vig and the fact that him leading town would inhibit my ability to control town, which is always my goal as indy, if you need reference go read Utrik'd up to my lynch

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Orbo: he wants us to help him figure out if JD is derpry / hardheaded JD town or just derpy or if he's scumderpy JD

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

depending on how far read up you are you may have not reached lasagna JD, which is what is causing from what i can read, all of the hullaballo

 

[Orboknown]

through page 13 of d1 and read all of today.

 

[Orboknown]

jd is always hardheaded.
and derpy as town as well.

 

[BarDulL]

In EM games I've played, it says "X person has gone missing!" whenever Janitor is responsible. Granted, they're still confirmed dead iIrc. Whatever. Still new in regards to Dgames' spin on things.

JD is trying to backpedal out of his original line of thinking while using AtE. That's the difference between Utrick'd and here. Bad reads, bad AtE, very obviously tried to get me lynched on the premise of me lying as Vig (even when I had used the claim to ultimately get scum lynched anyway. WTF.) He's actually not being hard headed because he understands how terrible a situation he got himself into. There's pretty much no turning back on his lynch at this point. Will not bite into JD's dumb defense and no one else should either.

I didn't actually need to claim Vig, albeit it did help with the Tako ordeal to a degree. Was picking up after Rake's "daily vig shot" claim which is too ridiculous and rolled with a more believable one.

 

[BarDulL]

Rake/Orbo - If JD isn't going today, who is?

 

[BarDulL]

That's not me conceding on JD. JD NEEDS to go. I refuse to take him to LyLo under these circumstances. That slot is far too scummy; everything about that slot stinks. JD also isn't nearly as dumb as he's making himself out to be, I've seen better play from him in Utrick'd and it isn't matching up with his dumb defense here.

 

[Orboknown]

Rake/Orbo - If JD isn't going today, who is?

lemme finish rereading. we're probably indy hunting right now, or we have one mafiat left.

 

[BarDulL]

Respond to what I've said in regards to JD.

 

[Orboknown]

That's not me conceding on JD. JD NEEDS to go. I refuse to take him to LyLo under these circumstances. That slot is far too scummy; everything about that slot stinks. JD also isn't nearly as dumb as he's making himself out to be, I've seen better play from him in Utrick'd and it isn't matching up with his dumb defense here.

this?

JD can be stupid at times. he usually owns up to it.
He was a derp in gigabots a lot of the time, but he gets serious when he needs to and admits to mistakes.

didn't read him "backpedaling" yet

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Bardull: my vote will tell you the only other path i am interested in, you could sell me on riddle though, assuming ryu is scum, his little riddle suspicion yesterday coulda been a warm up bus

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also: alright wrt your JD opinion, i just wanted to see what the reasoning was.

Pretty much for me it's JD <> Kantrip > Riddle.

And for me Kantrip is more of an indy read

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

actually i'm going to change my mind and ISO JD before i am ok with him going.

 

[BarDulL]

Be thorough, because right now I don't see him as anything but scum.

 

[BarDulL]

Go more in-depth with your indy read on Kantrip. Interesting.

 

[BSP]

I don't feel comfortable with the amount of information I have to work with on Riddle and it makes me uneasy,

I... would actually like to hear why both of you have Riddle as town as you do. Especially you Kantrip, you have him at the very top of your town reads list, that's not something I'd be at all confident doing atm.

Ok finished my hyper-skim, I don't know how many crazy pills I took before I took my nap today... but upon actually bothering to read here's my admittedly less ridiculous thoughts.

Bardull, Kantrip, Riddle, and Joker essentially cleared.

I already asked you this, but I just found this. Dietz, explain how your read on Riddle changed, especially if you hyper skimmed.

 

[Orboknown]

the essentially cleared part would need a tad more explaining.
/bouncing between readthrough and other stuff.

 

[Orboknown]

Repeating for emphasis.... wut?

Like, he simultaneously says that he looks as town as possible, is scum for looking as town as possible, and he is the null of nulls.

......

wut?

i think you're not good at deciphering vinyl's posts is all.

I'm not 100% sold on Rake, but I'm probably about 70% or 80%. He's not my priority for today. He does indeed keep useful discussion going, despite the little scummy inklings I get from some of his actions.

mind bringing up for me those inklings?

the fact that i do exactly the same thing as you accused me of doing on you so shamelessly on 194 is almost the only legitimate reason behind someone having a town read on me.
]

wut?

If there's no NK after N1, toast will be on high priority.

does this still stand vinyl?

In case I die

Don't let Bardull make it to lylo until we see a shot

I would cop Riddle or Dietz

this still stand?

This is why when you get a day vig role you use it instantly lol

salty much?
what if it's something like what happened to EE in mario party?

Why is this? What do you think about Vinyl's doc claim?

could it have been wifom? Vinyl's played doc before and not done this. Maybe he had a BP and was drawing the kill. who knows.

 

[Riddle]

Why is sheeping bad for you anyhow, i've substantiated every wagon i've been on.

Agreeing with other people is a lot easier/safer than making your own reads.

2nd Oh yeah: @Riddle: Explain what you thought JD was using his posts.
As in a full explanation.

Which posts?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

anyones you thought pointed to an ulterior goal.

 

[BarDulL]

Lynch JD, ask questions later.