Buff wishlist!

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Junior needs buffs tbh.
He’s just not getting any good results in this game.
That’s not to say I support the idea that tier lists should be based solely on tournament results, CUZ I DON’T, but tournament or not, Junior just hasn’t accomplished much in Ultimate. Here are some ideas to buff him:

CLOWN CANNON: Reduce lag
The lag on this move, as we know, is just not good. There’s so much lag to the point where they could make the ball instakill and it still wouldn’t be a necessarily good move. Just reduce startup; I’d say the endlag is fine. The move is just disappointing, especially considering how important cannonballs are in Mario games.

ABANDON SHIP: Remove the Kart Loss mechanic
Three questions. Who the hell thought this was a good idea; why are they still employed at Nintendo; and can they please pass whatever the hell they were smoking? Seriously, this mechanic is dumb. You could make the argument “Junior would have an amazing and ungimpable recovery!” That is beyond false. Junior is spike food after doing Up B and the Inkling already has a better recovery, with all the ups, but twice as good, without any of the downs. Junior doesn’t even have much to even come close to compensation, so just remove this. This would instantly help Junior.

MECHAKOOPAS: Prevent Shield deactivation and reflection.
Oh boy! I love when my moves just decide not to have any effect whatsoever on shields! And when they can just be picked up and thrown right back at me! Isn’t that just the idea of “fun?” Yeah, especially in a game where shields and dodging are much weaker, so it would give Junior a slight advantage, having this move. As well as the stage control it provides, this move could be good, but just kind of... isn’t.

CHARACTER STRENGTHS: Give him something other than traps.
Look, if a character has nothing other than their intended design going for them, it’s usually going to mean that they will not thrive in the meta. I mean, Dedede in Sm4sh was a bait & punish sort of character, with slow, powerful attacks. But he was bottom 5 in that game, since he had nothing else, and being a heavyweightwho struggled to kill, it was just a problem. So clearly, an easy solution would be to make Junior’s main strengths better, right?
Wrong. Look at Little Mac, for example. He has a strong ground game, with quick and powerful grounded attacks. However, due to his intended design, he has terrible recovery, horrifically weak aerials and even bad throws, just for an extra layer of icing on the cake. And look where he is, one of the worst characters in Ultimate. This is also the case for Junior, as he, Mac and Kirby are often considered the “Three Musketeers of the Lowest Tiers” in this game. Junior’s supposed to be a trap character (from my knowledge, but I’m probably just dumb. Replace traps with whatever he is good at if I’m wrong), so improving his traps while giving him other strengths to boot, maybe good edgeguarding (which would actually be very helpful) would be a drastic improvement.

Please. Junior is such a fun character, it honestly hurts to see him so low in the ranks. Buff the Koopa Prince, one way or another.:ultbowserjr:
 
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Not gonna lie. Puff Bair not turning you around would be nice. :039: Also I think SideB should take you farther on the ground. Then grounded SideB would be useful.
I think the reason they did that was to avoid the second coming of Melee Jigglypuff.

Rather than improve what’s already good, I would buff some of Jigglypuff’s ground options, because some of her grounded attacks have uses that are dubious at best.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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What about Bowser Jr.'s Clown Kart Dash? Its inability to deliver multiple hits makes it unsafe to use against shield-grabbers. If it dealt multiple hits (like with Koopa Drift), however, then maybe it would be a safer attack to use.
 
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Isn't that the point of the character?
The point of her character is to excel in the air, not necessarily to be complete trash on the ground.

Obviously I’m not saying let’s give her Sonic’s running speed and Little Mac’s frame data, but make it so that she at least has more than a handful of useable moves.
 
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Obviously I’m not saying let’s give her Sonic’s running speed and Little Mac’s frame data, but make it so that she at least has more than a handful of useable moves.
I want comment on this.

A bunch of people have this Black and White thinking pattern and it's honestly a big problem now-a-days.
Like there's never any grey area for them, they always think of it as one extreme or the other...

It's not always like that guys, come on.
(I'm not targeting this to Xelrog just to clarify)
 

Xelrog

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I'm just wary about homogenizing characters too much, especially since Mac and Jiggles are the min-maxers. I find that interesting about them. Yes, Jiggles was specifically designed to be useless on the ground in the same way Mac was specifically designed to be useless in the air.

I'm not going to die on the hill that their shortcomings can't be made a little less extreme. I just hope caution is exercised.
 

Ze Diglett

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I'm just wary about homogenizing characters too much, especially since Mac and Jiggles are the min-maxers. I find that interesting about them. Yes, Jiggles was specifically designed to be useless on the ground in the same way Mac was specifically designed to be useless in the air.

I'm not going to die on the hill that their shortcomings can't be made a little less extreme. I just hope caution is exercised.
My issue with "min-maxer" type characters is that they're almost always some of the least fun characters to play against in whatever game they're in, and they're also usually among the least balanced, always being either too good or way too bad. (Jigglypuff in Smash is a prime example of this, fittingly.) For those reasons, I would not be opposed to seeing so-called "min-maxers" homogenized slightly, if only to make them more fun to play against and give them a fighting chance in the meta.
 
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UserKev

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Its kind of sad that characters like Mario and Kirby will never relive their Smash 64 glory. Mario was also still great in Melee.

Mario needs a moveset revamp that removes F.L.U.D.D and Ridley's Recover needs to have more length and slightly faster.
 
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Its kind of sad that characters like Mario and Kirby will never relive their Smash 64 glory. Mario was also still great in Melee.

Mario needs a moveset revamp that removes F.L.U.D.D and Ridley's Recover needs to have more length and slightly faster.
Mario is graced with one of the best movesets among the roster in terms of cohesiveness. If anybody deserves a revamp it would be Zelda. Also, “never relive their Smash 64 glory?” We’re just going to pretend like Smash 4 Mario doesn’t exist?
I'm just wary about homogenizing characters too much, especially since Mac and Jiggles are the min-maxers. I find that interesting about them. Yes, Jiggles was specifically designed to be useless on the ground in the same way Mac was specifically designed to be useless in the air.
.
I’ll tell you what Jigglypuff and Little Mac weren’t designed to be: bad. Clearly whatever archetype they had in mind when designing these two isn’t a good one, so something needs to change.
 

UserKev

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I also agree that Mewtwo NEEDS to feel heavy and have a buffer model like Mewtwo in Pokémon Stadium. Mewtwo could actually look intimidatingly accurate to character, he isn't intimidating at all in Smash. Just a scrawny version of a Mewtwo wannabe.
 
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Jiggs BAir shouldn’t turn you around. The “second coming of Melee Jigglypuff” won’t really be true unless Up throw-Rest returns and obviously, it didn’t. Jiggs isn’t really that great either, so her old BAir returning wouldn’t necessarily break her. At least, I think.
But who am I to speak, I don’t play Jiggs lol
 

papa_tetris

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The point of her character is to excel in the air, not necessarily to be complete trash on the ground.

Obviously I’m not saying let’s give her Sonic’s running speed and Little Mac’s frame data, but make it so that she at least has more than a handful of useable moves.
Yeah that makes sence
 
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Kokiden

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I think we all understand that there are some moves in Ultimate that are good. But, nothing is inherently broken, We're not dealing with multi-shines or vanilla Bayo ladder combos. Nerfing a fighter means tearing apart their playerbase and is more or less a necessary evil than doing good. It would be better, in my opinion, to buff weaker fighters than nerf today's top tiers. So, what are the fighters who you would like to see buffs in?

I'll start: King Dedede needs a buff to his airspeed and less landing lag overall. Something simple yet effective.
I highly agree with this. Nintendo needs to stop handing out heavy handed nerfs, and foucs more on buffing characters that need it. So far, they haven't given any heavy handed nerfs, but that could change... (I hope they leave Joker alone. Seriously).

I think Bayo needs more buffs. Reduce her lag across the board, and increase WT duration. That's all she needs I think. If they do that, I would accept character falling out of her combos...
 
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I highly agree with this. Nintendo needs to stop handing out heavy handed nerfs, and foucs more on buffing characters that need it. So far, they haven't given any heavy handed nerfs, but that could change... (I hope they leave Joker alone. Seriously).

I think Bayo needs more buffs. Reduce her lag across the board, and increase WT duration. That's all she needs I think. If they do that, I would accept character falling out of her combos...
BaYoNeTtA
Tbh she got nerfed waaay too hard. She barely functions anymore tbh :ultbayonetta1:

Yes. Yes they should.
 

GhostMelee

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I think we all understand that there are some moves in Ultimate that are good. But, nothing is inherently broken, We're not dealing with multi-shines or vanilla Bayo ladder combos. Nerfing a fighter means tearing apart their playerbase and is more or less a necessary evil than doing good. It would be better, in my opinion, to buff weaker fighters than nerf today's top tiers. So, what are the fighters who you would like to see buffs in?

I'll start: King Dedede needs a buff to his airspeed and less landing lag overall. Something simple yet effective.
I agree with this statement because simply just nerfing isn’t going to balance the game. I don’t really like the fact that they nerf a character to the point where many of their options that were viable are no longer viable. Even in any smash game, it doesn’t really make sense to just nerf the top tiers to the point where they aren’t viable anymore. I feel like they should just focus on the characters that deserve the buffs like Falcon, where it was obvious that Raptor Boost was just completely inconsistent. I don’t necessarily want them to just buff certain strengths that a character has, but rather focus on their weaknesses without changing the attributes on what makes the character. It wouldn’t really make sense to give Bowser the speed of sonic if he’s supposed to be a heavy character.
 
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I agree with this statement because simply just nerfing isn’t going to balance the game. I don’t really like the fact that they nerf a character to the point where many of their options that were viable are no longer viable. Even in any smash game, it doesn’t really make sense to just nerf the top tiers to the point where they aren’t viable anymore. I feel like they should just focus on the characters that deserve the buffs like Falcon, where it was obvious that Raptor Boost was just completely inconsistent. I don’t necessarily want them to just buff certain strengths that a character has, but rather focus on their weaknesses without changing the attributes on what makes the character. It wouldn’t really make sense to give Bowser the speed of sonic if he’s supposed to be a heavy character.
You have said it well. And Inklings shouldn’t have one of the best recoveries if they can barely jump in their game-oh wait.
 
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