Buff wishlist!

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#1
I think we all understand that there are some moves in Ultimate that are good. But, nothing is inherently broken, We're not dealing with multi-shines or vanilla Bayo ladder combos. Nerfing a fighter means tearing apart their playerbase and is more or less a necessary evil than doing good. It would be better, in my opinion, to buff weaker fighters than nerf today's top tiers. So, what are the fighters who you would like to see buffs in?

I'll start: King Dedede needs a buff to his airspeed and less landing lag overall. Something simple yet effective.
 

Sudz

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#4
Make Pac's water unbreakable. Good Pac players already know how to get around it so it doesn't benefit them, and now that enemies don't need to respect it the hydrant just feels worse imo

Edit: I would also make K Rool's belly armor heal faster. As time goes on I feel like it doesn't make as much of a positive impact as it should now that people are used to the gimmick, whereas it can become debilitating against certain characters and throwing out some attacks runs the risk of losing a stock, making his neutral pretty shaky.
 
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KingDoop

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#7
for DDD I'd like to see faster startup for neutral B. Also with how much landing lag his fair has you'd think it's the strongest move in the game. Sooo get rid of that...or make it strong enough to merit the drawback
 

Archimedes

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#9
Buff Robin in multiple areas, just do something lmao

Only real request is to give him his Levin at the beginning of the match again thanks. I still have no idea why they thought that was a good idea in the first place???
 

Rhus

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#11
Buff Robin in multiple areas, just do something lmao

Only real request is to give him his Levin at the beginning of the match again thanks. I still have no idea why they thought that was a good idea in the first place???
For real - Robin was probably my strongest secondary in Sm4sh and I'm still absolutely baffled at the design decisions with him in ultimate.
 

Sean²

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#14
Give Wolf's Up B more distance, or give him the ability to act out of side B like the other spacies. I would be willing to deal with his lack of onstage kill options if he could go offstage more without worrying about dying for it.

Buff Kirby and Jigglypuff in general. Especially Kirby. He needs more speed and better range. Jigglypuff got her edgeguarding abilities back but her moves still lack the speed they need for neutral play. Watch a match between one of those two vs. a good Ike or Cloud. It's absolutely painful.

I wish I knew more about Bowser Jr. to give him a buff wishlist, but I don't know anything about him. But after fighting him a couple times, he needs....something.

The amount of damage Sheik's attacks do is hilarious. I can get the same amount of damage on her from two hits that she takes twenty to get on me. She could probably do a bit more without making her broken.

Can Duck Hunt be a little less floaty? IDK if this would be a massive buff, but I feel like it could help him a bit with the new mechanics.

As much as I hate him, I think they made Little Mac's recovery TOO susceptible to being gimped. He should be able to side B again after being hit out of it.
 
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#16
Personally, if I were to buff anything about Pac-Man, it would, ironically, to make him more reliant on his gimmicks (nerf his normals a tiny bit overall) and give him more of them in his favor. A short list of stuff I thought of

Bonus Fruit
  • Increase the drop time of Bonus Fruit to how it was in Smash 4
  • Faster Bonus Fruit rotation
  • Using Bonus Fruit while one is not being held will cause the rotation to reset and the thrown fruit to disappear rather than just not doing anything
  • Change the Strawberry to be like that one custom move where it hops backwards when it hits the ground and then back forward and repeat
    • I think this is the least used fruit, at least from seeing Pac players because it is too much like Cherry but requires more charge time
Pac-Jump

  • Trampoline can be attacked by only Pac-Man to make victims fall into helpless state with a hefty landing lag (similar to his showcase video)
  • Trampoline can be angled
  • Fire Hydrant and Bonus Fruit can bounce off of Trampoline (does not count as an attack from Pac-Man) at the corresponding angle
  • Much more fall speed when bouncing off the Trampoline
Fire Hydrant

  • Only Pac can attack the water to get rid of it (only works with normal attacks)
  • If using Hydrant while one is in place, will create a new one and immediately make the other one disappear rather than not doing anything
  • More frequent water shots
  • More synergy with hydrant push
    • Smash attacks are weaker, but have no sourspot, but one long sweetspot
    • Grab is active for far long
    • Grab can be angled up and down
      • Synergizes with being above the Hydrant to dodge attacks by grabbing downwards
Power Pellet

  • Make the pellet trail more like the long trail custom move and allow for much more curvature before launch
 

Luigifan18

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#18
K. Rool could use a bit more super armor frames on some of his belly armor moves, namely his forward tilt. His moves in general could also probably be just a hair faster.

Jigglypuff could use some bigger hitboxes on its aerials, so its edgeguarding game (one of its main two ways to close stocks, the other being Rest) is more effective by virtue of its aerials landing more easily (and being harder for other air-based fighters, like Meta Knight and Bayonetta, to challenge). Of course, given how tiny Jigglypuff's limbs are, I can't imagine the hitboxes being made substantially bigger... As for Jigglypuff's ground game, that's supposed to be lackluster as a trade-off for its amazing air game. It's like an inverse Little Mac.
 
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#19
I know Japan doesn't like Metroid, but would it kill the developers to give some of that Miyamoto privilege to Metroid characters? Samus has been buffed. Thank you. I appreciate that, Sakurai & Co. Here's what else I have in mind.

:ultsamus:
●Make jab 1 without a 361° angle. Jab 1 and 2 need to have a confirmed connect.
●Increase Screw Attack's hitbox, especially for Dark Samus. It's as if I can stand next to my opponent and miss.
●Either give Super Missile the explosive effect like Lucas' PK Fire, or make it as tough like Snake's Nikita.
●Give Samus two mid-air jumps. She has Space Jump for crying out loud!

Now onto poor Ridley. He is, in my opinion, the worst big body character when compared to Bowser, DK, King Dedede, and King K. Rool.

:ultridley:
●If Ridley is going to have a subpar recovery, make his horizontal aerial movement better. Yoshi has two jumps and he recovers better than Ridley. Jigglypuff can't fly in any Pokémon, but has a better recovery. Pit can't fly without assistance from Palutena/Viridi, either, yet has a better recovery. Pathetic!
●Give Ridley 3 mid-air jumps. Stop with the Sakurai privilege. If Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta Knight can fly, why can't Ridley?
●Make Ridley heavier. Why the hell does Snake weigh a ton, but Ridley is lighter than Samus? More Miyamoto and Sakurai privilege, too? Yes, Ridley is canonically fast, but he's not lighter than Samus.
●Give Ridley a better neutral special. Make it charge faster, or just let Ridley charge it like Samus can charge Charge Shot. Ridley has fired huge fireballs. See Metroid: Other M.
●Make neutral aerial better. It's not like Palutena's or Cloud's.
●Make down aerial spike. Why is Ridley launching his opponent off to the left or right of himself while he falls to his death?

Simply put, MAKE RIDLEY ****ING VIABLE! Thank you for listening.
 
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#20
Hmm, some more buffs I should mention:
:ultkingdedede:: All 3 jab animations need to come out faster, it's possible to roll out of them.
:ultkirby:: Airspeed buff, down B needs to break shields, fair and bair should be a bit more powerful (for shield poking), less knockback on up throw so it can connect to up air, make it harder to DI his forward throw so grab confirms are easier, and give him his old dash attack back.
:ultlittlemac:: Lordie just save this poor fella.
 

KIRBY MAIN

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#22
Mogisthelioma Mogisthelioma
I agree, Kirby needs more airspeed love, and up B, don’t really think his down B NEEDS shield breaking (but I would applaud it all the same ^_^) instead though I think his hammer warrants more shield breaking than his down B does, but that’s just me :)
 
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#23
Mogisthelioma Mogisthelioma
I agree, Kirby needs more airspeed love, and up B, don’t really think his down B NEEDS shield breaking (but I would applaud it all the same ^_^) instead though I think his hammer warrants more shield breaking than his down B does, but that’s just me :)
I still disagree with the sentiment of Kirby having more airspeed. Not that it won't solve some issues, but that it seems to be an ingrained character weakness and reducing weaknesses makes characters less unique. But Kirby needs to be able to do combos, because that's also supposed to be his thing.

I think the compromise is to make it so almost all of Kirby's combo centric attacks launch further upwards for more vertical combos. You could also increase hitstun on more horizontal launching moves for Kirby so he can keep up with his target without them resetting neutral. This still makes him slow in the air, but functional all the same.
 

staindgrey

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#25
Can :ultzelda: get her old Dtilt back please? This new one is useless.
 

Galaxy Queen Rosalina

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#26
It may be a while before I can get my hands on Ultimate. I shall still provide input on this subject just the same. I shall wish for a maximum of one buff for each of my girls:


:ultpeach: - Considering she is kicking *** and getting good tourney results so far (believe me, I frequent the tourney results thread), it looks like she does not need any buffs here.
:ultdaisy: - Same as :ultpeach:, no buffs necessary.
:ultrosalina: - Make it so Luma moves forward from doing Rosa's jab. That looked to be a super-effective approach to stopping approaches in their tracks.
:ultbayonetta: - My best girl has been nerfed nastily and I bet most folks out there are feeling like the following...
6Bcb.gif

Well, that does not hurt my feelings one bit. I think the one of the most important things about her to buff is to revert the changes in recovery frames to her combo starters. Racking up damage through 100s of combos was one of the components leading to her eventual victory after all. As for those other nerfs, I can manage. Matter of fact, CaptainZack managed and got a first-place victory in a tournament with my girl. See the tournament results thread if you do not believe me.


Sayonara:kirby:
 
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#27
:ultlemmy:: Forward and back air should have less lag and deal more damage so they can shield poke as intended.
:ultrobinf:: Levin Sword should be available from the start. Level 3 thunder charge should last longer so I can combo again.
:ultwolf:: His recovery....please help him.
 

FNUStory

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#29
I think Pichu is in need of buffs. He is my favorite character. I wish he would get more buffs to make him absolutely broken.
 

SvartWolf

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#31
I'm still readapting to robin... I wouldnt say that he got outright nerfed considering he was one of the biggest winners of the jumpsquat change, and got a couple of nice stuff...

But i feel little incentive to use arcthunder, maybe if I become way better and be able to react at the sped of light and input stuff would make more sense... but now it feels like I prefer on keeping elthunder or going thoron. I also miss the power behind his trash.

That being said.. is waaaay too early to really understand what do really "need" buffs..

For example, how bad is Samus?.. is she really thaaat bad? or i just don't understand how i'm supposed to be using her? (still it hurts my hearth seeing Mii gunner being the better "Samus" DX)
 

Xebenkeck

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#32
I wish they would rework bowser jr.'s mech koopas

First I'd make them not items meaning you can't just pick them up and throw them back. Where they are is where they are. You can only shield them to get rid of them.

Second to that make it so he can have two of them out at once. And reduce the lag on letting them out of the car.

This would make him more of a trap and read/punish type character.

His combos are decent enough, this would give him the avenue to actually get those combos started.

It's all he would need.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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#33
Simply put, MAKE RIDLEY ****ING VIABLE! Thank you for listening.
Didn't Ridley like just win 2nd in a Europe major?

I think he's okay.

If anything, its Jr. that needs a lot.

Or Charizard...

Please make Charizard able to land.
 
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#34
Didn't Ridley like just win 2nd in a Europe major?

I think he's okay.

If anything, its Jr. that needs a lot.

Or Charizard...

Please make Charizard able to land.
Characters look viable early on. As time goes on, that more often than not tends not to be the case.
 

Swamp Sensei

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#35
Characters look viable early on. As time goes on, that more often than not tends not to be the case.
That's the thing.

Apparently there are a fair amount of Ridleys getting data and good placements.

Jr has comparatively very little.
 
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#36
That's the thing.

Apparently there are a fair amount of Ridleys getting data and good placements.

Jr has comparatively very little.
Give it time. Either I'm not using Ridley properly, or Ridley is low tier. There are better big body characters (Bowser, DK, King K. Rool), at least from my experience.
 

T-Donor66

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#37
I know Japan doesn't like Metroid, but would it kill the developers to give some of that Miyamoto privilege to Metroid characters? Samus has been buffed. Thank you. I appreciate that, Sakurai & Co. Here's what else I have in mind.

:ultsamus:
●Make jab 1 without a 361° angle. Jab 1 and 2 need to have a confirmed connect.
●Increase Screw Attack's hitbox, especially for Dark Samus. It's as if I can stand next to my opponent and miss.
●Either give Super Missile the explosive effect like Lucas' PK Fire, or make it as tough like Snake's Nikita.
●Give Samus two mid-air jumps. She has Space Jump for crying out loud!

Now onto poor Ridley. He is, in my opinion, the worst big body character when compared to Bowser, DK, King Dedede, and King K. Rool.

:ultridley:
●If Ridley is going to have a subpar recovery, make his horizontal aerial movement better. Yoshi has two jumps and he recovers better than Ridley. Jigglypuff can't fly in any Pokémon, but has a better recovery. Pit can't fly without assistance from Palutena/Viridi, either, yet has a better recovery. Pathetic!
●Give Ridley 3 mid-air jumps. Stop with the Sakurai privilege. If Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta Knight can fly, why can't Ridley?
●Make Ridley heavier. Why the hell does Snake weigh a ton, but Ridley is lighter than Samus? More Miyamoto and Sakurai privilege, too? Yes, Ridley is canonically fast, but he's not lighter than Samus.
●Give Ridley a better neutral special. Make it charge faster, or just let Ridley charge it like Samus can charge Charge Shot. Ridley has fired huge fireballs. See Metroid: Other M.
●Make neutral aerial better. It's not like Palutena's or Cloud's.
●Make down aerial spike. Why is Ridley launching his opponent off to the left or right of himself while he falls to his death?

Simply put, MAKE RIDLEY ****ING VIABLE! Thank you for listening.
Ridley is absolutely good and viable, not sure what you are on about. It literally get worse the more I read it. Buff his nair? You mean buff one of the best, lagless, and disjointed moves in the game? And down air does spike at the very beginning. And he has 3 jumps already.

I have this sinking feeling that you have been playing him absolutely wrong. He is doing great in tournaments and I can show you what he is capable of, if you ever wanna do some friendlies.
 
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#39
Ridley is absolutely good and viable, not sure what you are on about. It literally get worse the more I read it. Buff his nair? You mean buff one of the best, lagless, and disjointed moves in the game? And down air does spike at the very beginning. And he has 3 jumps already.

I have this sinking feeling that you have been playing him absolutely wrong. He is doing great in tournaments and I can show you what he is capable of, if you ever wanna do some friendlies.
See, this is the response I expect from Ridley mains. Either I'm "not using Ridley correctly", or he's not that great. Ridley's recovery is subpar. He's easy combo food. His projectile game is lousy. We can do friendlies. I'm fine with that. Show me what Ridley can do because he's not cutting it for me and that makes me upset. Fast characters screw him over hard.
 

Swamp Sensei

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#40
See, this is the response I expect from Ridley mains. Either I'm "not using Ridley correctly", or he's not that great. Ridley's recovery is subpar. He's easy combo food. His projectile game is lousy. We can do friendlies. I'm fine with that. Show me what Ridley can do because he's not cutting it for me and that makes me upset. Fast characters screw him over hard.
Really? It's the heavies that give me problems with Ridley.
 
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