Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

[Kantrip]

So OMGUS, then?

I was in no danger, WTF are you even talking about?

 

[felipe_9595]

I mean, you noticed everything was going to end with you, me july at that point i was still clueless), thats why you tried to push a lynch on me.

 

[Kantrip]

No it's not. I was not even pushing your lynch. I was suggesting you are scum, but I was certainly intending to reread, and I still am.

**** I'm doing it again. I refuse to respond to another thing you say in thread until you have read the game and/or things you say start to make any sense.

But hey, as soon as ONE OTHER PERSON AGREES WITH YOUR ****TY LOGIC, then come talk to me.

 

[felipe_9595]

No kantrip, my plan is still valid. You forgot about adum, we have 3 actions, mafia haves 2, we are going to get a maf either way.

 

[felipe_9595]

Dude if you flip mafia i am going to laugh, hard.

3 Night actions, mafia can only block 2, one its going to go trought. or Sokr will Vig (if vigs town, we got mafia, if he vigs mafia we win), or Swiss will roleblock (if he roleblocks town the Mafia kill will go trought, if it doesnt, he roleblocked maf. aanother win), or Adum will track (same as before, if he tracks town he will get no one and if he tracks maf its win too)

 

[Swiss]

Still your "plan" is not something you would be pushing as the last scum, so I am going to go back to my previous town read on you.

That said: Sokr, if we mislynch toDay I trust you know what to do.
I KNOW Swiss does

I'm still going to re-read, of course, but

Vote: July

Roll a die and lynch randomly toMorrow?

 

[Gova]

1. adumbrodeus ()
4. Sokr ()
5. Kantrip ()
8. Swiss (1) July
10. Felipe_9595 (1) Sokr
11. July (1) Kantrip

Not voting - adumbrodeus, Swiss, felipe

With 6 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is December 23rd at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

 

[felipe_9595]

Roll a die and lynch randomly toMorrow?

3 Night actions, mafia can only block 2, one its going to go trought. or Sokr will Vig (if vigs town, we got mafia, if he vigs mafia we win), or Swiss will roleblock (if he roleblocks town the Mafia kill will go trought, if it doesnt, he roleblocked maf. aanother win), or Adum will track (same as before, if he tracks town he will get no one and if he tracks maf its win too)

Lynch me today if you want, tomorrow we will get a maf.

If someone havent understand what i said. I a goin to explain step by step xPPP :

At least there must be 1 mafia between me, kantrip and july. So we have a 33% of chances to lynch mafia.

If we lynch town, then we will have 2 people. Then that chance will become a 50%.

BUT, we have 3 night actions, and mafia can only block 2 of them.

If Mafia Blocks the Vig and the RB, then Adum will get the maf (If he tracks town, the other one must be mafia)

If Mafia blockes the Vig and the Tracker, Swiss is going to get mafia (If he roleblocks town, the ngiht kill will go trought, but i he roleblock mafia, no kill will happen)

If mafia blocks the RB and the tracker, Sokr vig will go trought, so we will get a maf (if he vigs town, we lynch maf)

Does it make sense now?? (My redaction in the past pages was horrid)

 

[Sokr]

No it doesn't Felipe. What if there's no Mafia left and Swiss is say... a piper? You're thinking too narrow mindedly.

 

[Kantrip]

If Swiss is a piper, who killed Asdioh?

Yeah, I think you should both step back for a moment.

 

[Sokr]

3 Mafia and 1 piper?

 

[felipe_9595]

In my experience games ends when there is no mafia.

Why should i take step back??? my plan doesnt have flaws, it will always caught a maf, in any case.

 

[Sokr]

But Felipe, what if there is some Indy faction after we've found Mafia? Then we've potentially wasted a mislynch.

 

[felipe_9595]

Then we are potentially ****ed at this moment.

 

[felipe_9595]

Thinking about it Swiss cannot be an indy with somone else. because 2 indys + mafia = 3, so they could win today i they joint.

 

[felipe_9595]

Thinking about it Swiss cannot be an indy with someone else. because 2 indys + mafia = 3, so they could win today if they joint.

 

[Kantrip]

We've been through this.

The only way Swiss can be linked is if he is linked to Sokr and there are no mafia left. This is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point we can rule it out.
That means that there could be one more mafia AND Swiss COULD potentially be indy, however I doubt this is the case as well.
We are looking for Red Ryu and John's partner.

I am in the process of rereading. I am currently on page 13 (40ppp).

 

[Kantrip]

Only read up to page 27, and I have all that I need.

July is the play toDay. Felipe is just dumb town. If the game is still going after July flips scum, we're probably looking at Swiss indy. I believe my vote is already on July.

Notes in a sec.

 

[felipe_9595]

I would go for your lynch Kantrip, basically we are 3 vt.

But yeah i can deal with July lynchs, if he flips town then FOLLOW MY PLAN!!!!!!

 

[Kantrip]

I would have, though at this point it's pretty much over with.

I did post some kinda worthless things, though I learned that Adumb glanced over my vote. I took note of this that he paid no mind to this.

I don't know what info there is when people, like Adumb said, moved out of RvS at this point. No one is being more "fun and free" as they would have been.

It is not my tactic to act scummy and to get people to jump on me to see who jumps on actively. I had no intention of doing this as a gambit of any sort.

@Tery & Soup: Why the votes? I want legit reason.

@Kantrip: So before you were voting for reactions and pressure, what did you gain from it?

Red Ruy answers Swiss's RQS questions directed at him and he "took note that adum glanced over [RR's] vote on him". Doesn't seem like something that promotes a RR/adum scumteam.

I'm interested here.

Do you know of Soup's scum play and how it plays? If not, then since you take it as a null tell if anyone else was doing it would it still be a null tell?

Don't see why Red Ryu would ask this question, especially now knowing that he was scum. He asked it to July, it can be an attempt to distance by asking useless questions.

I was actually agreeing with you that it was for all intents and purposes an RVS vote.






Actually it was the fact that your vote had the reasoning to make it a serious vote that made it interesting, I could've believed that you decided to toss what amounted to an RVS vote late, you're new enough to potentially make that error. What I can't believe is that it'd both be phrased as a serious vote and be well after RVS, and still be intended as an RVS vote.

Yes, RVS votes and posts can and do have a purpose, but in order to work they have to be off the cuff. You've done this in RVS before, why not this game?


Actually, think I'll ask RR about RVS theory, because I'm interested in whether he actually understands the phase.




And yes, I do think I know why you voted. You made it quite obvious in your post. A "lets policy lynch soup" post, while meh, isn't as horribly scummy as your attempt to back out of it was. That's why it wasn't so much your initial post that drew my attention as your 38.







What does RVS tell you about people and why?

adum follows up on Red Ruy and asks him what RVS tells him and why. Just taking note for now to look out for follow-ups.

I honestly didn't know what your intentions were. When you said that you were in support of just getting Soup out of the way and put your vote on him, the game seemed like we were moving out of RVS and your vote could have gone either way. What I've had an issue with is much less the original post itself, but when someone Adum brought it up you got very defensive about it and your intentions weren't made clear (that it was a pressure vote) until well into that conversation.

Also now that Kantrip v. Adum progressed a bit, I liked Adum's push on Kantrip, I think that he asked the right questions and pressured him on a legit inconsistency with his early play and followed up well from there.



Kk, what do you think of the recent developments in Soup v. Kantrip (both claiming a town read on the other)?



The thing is that if you still thought it was an RVS post, what made you think that Soup would even respond or take it seriously? RVS votes don't really act to apply pressure because they are random, so if you were trying to couple RVS and a pressure vote, the your intentions weren't clear.



Yes, I saw his scum play before he replaced out of Harry Potter Mafia, and it was pretty composed and...rational I guess would be a good word for it, but that was all when he wasn't under pressure (or pressure that wasn't from his scummates). His playstyle was also very different in Awkward Moments Mafia where he was town, and there it seemed like he was purely trying out a new playstyle with no ulterior motive.

Just noting that July answered the question about Soup scum from Red Ryu.

You should clarify on why it would.

RR/Sokr looks unlikely from this post. This was RR responding to Sokr saying something about being a noob. I don't remember, and this really is just gut.

So uhh.

I'm pretty sure the game being so late to start was my fault, sorry 'bout that. Was at a fireworks night party, didn't get back until late last night.

I've skimmed the thread, let's see...


Kantrip Vs. Adum. I mean, Adum looks better out of the argument but only marginally. Kantrip's responses have been defensive but I wouldn't say that's a scumtell at all. Buuuuut a lot of his reponses seem unfocused and just a lot of questions. On the other hand I've liked Adum's pressure up until the self-meta point. I think at that point the argument just got silly.


I think Soup's statement that the Kantrip/Adum argument is inherently TvT is wack as hell but I do agree that looking at other players besides them would be good.


@Sokr Is defensiveness a scumtell? When you say something smells scummy behind Kantrip's actions do you have any reason for that or is it purely "gut"?

@Asdioh Asdeeeohhh. Your writing style is so confusing now .__. Your rherotical questioning makes it hard to tell if you're actually wanting someone to respond to a question or not.

What's your current reads on Tery and Felipe?

In your #81 you seem to have suspicions of Soup but you don't ask him any questions to follow up those suspicions. Ask them please.

Seikend refers to Kantrip, adum, Soup, Tery, Asdioh, felipe, and Sokr in this post. Going to see if there is a trend of ignoring scummates. Swiss and July are the neglected players who are still alive at this point.

Alright soup, point taken (even though that was mostly ryker's fault). Rereading a bit and his more recent posts seem a great deal more composed and generally townie, the sudden change seems weird from a scum slot under such heavy fire. Less sure, I wanna hear JTB's answer before proceeding.


Also @Kantrip: What's your opinion of my slot now? If it's changed, as of what post did it change.



@Swiss: what are your thoughts on Kantrip?


@Soup: Felipe is null. Nothing he's said leans particularly townie or scummy. Also answer my question please.





Answer my question RR.

The bottom part is all that concerns me. Adum reminds RR to answer his question. Following up, I like it. Also reminds Soup to answer why he voted for RR. RR/adum looks unlikely so far.

Initiative, early connections, and ideas of how unknown players play.

If they like to be quiet in RvS, they are more likely scum.

If they place votes early and do so from a semi serious standpoint, they are not connected.

Unknown players give me an idea of how they play from RvS a bit, it's something to learn and see what I can take as a scum tell if they are newer and if they are somewhat experienced or are, I can learn what to expect from them.

RR finally answers adum's question.

Your meta experience with Felipe I will take into consideration, but only as a small factor. If you say he's scum and can give me valid reasons why, I could lean scum from a null read or reinforce a scum read, but it won't change my mind from a town read to a scum read because I'm definitely not that confident in meta, especially meta for someone I've never played with and that comes from a different site.



I can agree with that, I want more from Tery and some substantial input on the players active atm. Soup is honestly leaning town for me, he's answering questions pretty well and with some decent reasoning behind them.



Adum had already started grilling Kantrip by that point, but it really doesn't matter to me at this point, I can believe that you had the same qualms with Kantrip that Adum had and that I had on your own. Has your read on Kantrip changed at all? What are your thoughts on Soup's case for Adum v. Kantrip as TvT?



I've been getting there :D Town leans on Soup, Swords, and yourself. Cautiously town leans on Swiss and Adum. Felipe and Sokr null. Kantrip and Tery leaning scum, and Tery never answered my question in my #117. Anyone else is null/didn't leave an impression on me yet.

July is just answering a bunch of questions. So far, I haven't really seen initiative or drive from her. RR is one of the people she responds to. July just mentions that she agrees with what RR says about Tery and Soup's responses.

Looking forward to a full analysis of why you dislike soup.




I'll overlook your vig crumb, but others may not.



Suspicion raised in my eyes.

I feel as if I know you. I do not trust you an inch. But surely, you would have created an alias before the role PM's - should I not take this as null? Discuss.

I find it odd you have come into the game so strongly, yet were unaware you had bold to vote. Did you not read the rules? You've read everything else. Why would you skim so?

Asdioh is town.

July leans town, FYI.

Felipe is town.

Kantrip null, Soup null. Dislike Adum.

Kantrip leans scum #83

Dislike Soup switching to Kantrip town, seems like he wants townie points for calling a townie.

Adum you're staying too far back for my liking. Get involved, stuck in.




Defensive post is defensive. Where's your content?

Inactive, I knew it. Replace out..Unless you're admitting to lurking.

Adum back to null #98

Regardless of how much Kantrip is posting I find his posts useless and uninformative.



I like this

Scrap whatever I said about him. Null.

Adum town.

Adum, how convinced are you of your Kantrip case? I need a 100% honest answer. Because he's town.



Gah.

Bringing out more dislike. You're right, but playing Kantrip's saviour imo.




Nice, safe answer.



Scum.

This is legit and not fake pressure. Before I explain why (which I will or lynch me), tell me why you think i now have you pegged as scum.



Was I?

Lol Asdioh.

Nah Soup town. Had that wrong, Sorry.

@ Swords I missed that on Adum.

You've achieved very similar reads to mine. You're town. Still pegging Adum as town, if I had to call it. My hand is here to hold whenever you get a solid on me.

Yes July. Come aboard the town train.



Reads as "If Adum is scum, I want to lynch Swiss regardless of his cop alignment (Guilty = Scum = lynch me. Ino = GF = lynch me).


----

Would lynch RR, Tery, Seikend, JTB.

Town = Felipe, Asdioh, July, Soup, Adum (at a pinch)

Vote RR

There. That's 10 of 13 players pinned. Let's assume the other 3 must be town, whoever they are, and win asap.

Here is where Swiss pointed out Sword's "vig crumb". But this is not the important part of Swiss's post right now. In this same post, he voted for RR as his top scum pick and called Seikend scum (even thought I'm pretty sure it was pressure at this point). Not sure what to make of this, but just noting it for now.

I take this as a town tell, his thought process is clear and honest. Instead of being aggressive, or defensive, he's realistic and honest. The majority of his posts have been bland to me, and I do not think he is an asset to town. But town he is.
Adum I agree the way he reacted early game may not look perfect, but can you show me where exactly you see the intent, not just words to affect 'scum play'.



I took this as scummy because it came across as opportunistic (Sokr/Swiss scum team). His wording to you was buddying in nature (if not intent), he did not need to be 'pleased' to see you and agreed with you.

Now, a curious player might ask why I didn't call you (Asdioh, IIRC) out on the Swiss / Sokr scum team scenario. That's because it wasn't the scenario itself I found unlikely, it was his opportunism I found scummy.

Tell me, what do you think of RR?

Swiss tells his top scumpick in Red Ryu to take a stance on Kantrip's posting. Scumhunting and pressuring scum picks. Fine by me.

Are you telling me we should treat you like a null read if neither are a determinant for alignment?

This is how Red Ryu responds to Swiss. Seems like it's just as difficult as it was for adum to get a proper answer out of Red Ryu. Not sure what to make of what Red Ryu is asking here.

Don't be silly. I'm telling you to get a town read on me.

So, what do you think about Tery's recent posts? Pretty scummy eh?

Seems odd that Swiss is saying this to his top scum pick. He's asking Red Ryu for another stance, as well though. So I don't mind.

Don't be silly. I'm telling you to get a town read on me.

Why?

I'm town, but why should I trust you with a town read. I've got a big fat null so far.



His #199?

From what I can tell, I learn nothing of his scum picks if I also take his past posts into consideration.

At best he has a dislike of Felipe, You a tad maybe, and myself.

Otherwise a lot of it was a big pack of fluff. Some of it is content over with how he is making comments about Felipe. I'm not certain to think this was done with scum intent, I don't like his previous posts where he posted nothing to help me see where is overall head it at.

That post helps me with some individual players but still only gives info on Felipe, Adumb, and Kantrip. But still is in the dark of everyone else on alignment.

Well Red Ryu answers this question. Mostly just quoting this exchange for completeness sake in my connections, I don't actually know what to think about it.

- - -

Just noting at this time that the initial town read I got on felipe still makes sense to me.

Adum leaning town, Kantrip null.



"Amount of defensiveness"? What do you mean?




I can see I write information more than analysis but to me it seems pretty easy to infer what I mean. Other than that, I have no idea what you're looking at.



I'm sorry guys, this post is really lacking in any content. The wireless internet has been seriously acting up for me recently. If I want to do anything online I have to do it on the family computer so I can only manage about half an hour of activity a day. That's to read the whole thread and to respond etc. I will probably have to talk to Gova about this, see if it's worth staying in the game or replacing out ASAP. Hope you can understand.

Here we go, finally another Seikend post. Read on Kantrip and adum with no reasoning. Asks for Sokr to clarify something. The only other thing he bothered responding to is Swiss calling him scum. He tries to answer the question without acting suspicious about it, and that reaction could go one of two ways, knowing that he was scum: 1. He doesn't want townSwiss to keep pushing him, so he complies and tries to avoid conflict. 2. Swiss could be his scummate.

Still not sure if avoidance is the connection I'm looking for, but if it is then July and Red Ryu have both been ignored by Seikend.

His questions have been open and undirected. A lot of them seem to have no intent or purpose to them. Like he has the most posts in the game but I don't remember his opinions on most of the players. Although to be fair, I skimmed.

On the other hand, the few questions he has followed through on (one that comes to mind is the terywj questioning) have come out with solid content and his intent to scumhunt then looks genuine.



If I do end up replacing out I'll be giving a final summary on all my reads etc.

Seikend answers felipe's question of "why is Kantrip null"?

This post might be a little lite. You're not allowed to count it as a scum tell because I'm pointing it out.



Why would you suggest another player ignores your reads? Clearly you feel this is the best way to convince people, why?



Town.



Chronological.

"It's so you can see my thought process".

i.e. I cbf editing my posts to reflect my final reads.

@ next question - misread. Apologies.




Is a claim arrogant if it's backed up with evidence? If I wanted to hide scummy manoeuvres, I'd do it with a little style. Give me some credit. I'm nothing if not a showman.

If a Sokr whines in a thread, and there's no-one there to hear, is he still scum?

Hey, Swords. What's up? What's up with that? You know, that line. Nestled in amongst your townie post is that rotten apple. Just admit you're vig and we can move on. Everyone else already knows it.

Where's my cat? All I have is this lousy, empty bag.

@ Adum, Swords. Give me a day with Sokr, por favor.



Laughed IRL.



You can't overthrow what is taller than you.

Come, sit in my court.

Sokr, I'd take Soup's point that I have 'the crown' as a tacit admission he recognises my authority. The crown denotes, monarchy, leadership - does it not?

Excellent.

Glad we're clear that I was right again.




Please elaborate as to why you dislike him, I find this reasoning bizarre.

[Removed post to Adum, remind me to post this later]



I take offence.



More on Adum. What happened to scumSwiss?

Bizarre wording, you're "thinking of leaning scum on adum". Wishy-washy, vague. Careful.



Do you think you are reliable at doing this?



RR, do you think Seikand should replace out?



Point A..on the other hand..Opposing point B.

No stance, no vigour, no belief.

No mercy.

@ Swords - Tery town. He was too relaxed about his death. Not a "Fine, kill me if you want". It was "I do not understand how this is not beneficial". The level of smarts to pull that AtE with that precision escape Tery with ease.



Well, he clearly wouldn't be doing a very good job, would he?

Let's dive into a quick analysis, Soup is an experienced player, he'd never get caught out by someone as poor as you (you admitted this yourself) - 'nor would he allow this implication were he scum. The only logical explanation is that we are not scumbuddies. Now we have this presupposition which we are clearly safe with, and we both call the other town, is it not reasonable to assume we are both town?

A more cynical, snide, mirthless player might question if you're afraid of townies clearing each other.

Among many other questions, Swiss asks RR if Seikend should replace out. This is pretty funny because they were scummates.

Yes I am, just didn't post this weekend because I was spending time with the boyfriend. Not much activity means I'll be caught up in no time.



Soup, is there anything you want to add to the JTB case? If JTB is lynched toDay, who will you look at on a scum flip? On a town flip?



The Sokr vote was trying to push him and force him to take strong stances and actually back up his accusations (make a case, try and convince people). He actually did the opposite and went back on his reads on Swiss and Adum and really hasn't presented anything since, and that doesn't set well with me; that seems to me like more than a newbie issue of taking stances, it seems like purposefully avoiding conflict or getting your hands dirty.



Seikend is null, there just isn't enough information from him; the only thing I remember him commenting on was Adum v. Kantrip and having a weak stance on that. I need to see more from him or he needs a replacement.

RR is also someone who hasn't left a huge impression of me so I reread him. In his first 10 or so posts I'm seeing questions, speculation on RVS, and advice, but no real stances until his #210. However with this post:



This is his comment on Tery's post and makes me think he really isn't found of Tery at this point, but that's it and that's pretty weak 210 posts into the game and with things like Kantrip v. Adum going down. I also thought the last paragraph was about himself, but it appears he's talking about being in the dark about Tery's reads, but I'm finding that pretty funny because I'm in the dark about RR's reads on those people and pretty much everyone in the game except Tery at this point.

But then his #302 and #303 take a jump away from any Tery suspicion and he says this to Kantrip when he votes for Tery:



That seems awfully defensive of someone that in his next post RR admits he has trouble reading, which now moves Tery to null for him? All in all I'm unclear of how RR feels about Tery but I do know he doesn't want Kantrip putting pressure on him, which I think was fine; I didn't see intent to lynch, I saw intent to pressure someone he found increasingly scummy and I wanted to see how those interactions played out between Kantrip/Tery, so I don't like RR shutting that down so quickly.

The next post from RR is wrt Swords asking for his read on Kantrip, in which he provides a case against Kantrip:



I don't like this case.

The bolded bothered me for what might be my brain blowing things up at 4:30 am but him saying that Kantrip provided reasoning later, as in after voting Tery, isn't true; he gave his reasons right when he voted and one of the reasons that RR doesn't like is that Kantrip called Tery out on fluff posting which is null for Tery. However that point requires meta on Tery that idk or care if Kantrip has, I'd prefer that people pressure people for fluff content/lack of content then just write them off as meta, especially when its meta someone else is providing.

The point about Kantrip voting for pressure and not with the intent to lynch is stupid to me; if Kantrip got information out of his vote and pressure on Tery then he's at least trying to scumhunt.

The vote on Sokr for a "scum slip" I can see where he's coming from a bit, but I don't think it's strong and I don't like the case built around the Kantrip/Tery/Sokr reactions, especially in light of Kantrip's questioning of Sokr after this vote and eventually change in reads on him. Basically I see RR nitpicking Kantrip's scumhunting which seems disorganized but not disingenuous.

The only other stances he gives from there on out are saying that Adum doesn't match his scum meta from past experiences in his #455 and ranking his trust of Adum, Swords, and Swiss in his #456 (that's his order of trust from most to least trusted btw). However he doesn't actually tell us what that spectrum means :-/ as in, is Swiss leaning town while the other two are town, or is it town, null, scum? I'd like some explanation on what his reads for these players actually are.

So basically your question about RR turned into a case on him but after rereading I really don't like RR's lack of content, especially reads, and the fact that his interactions have been based around Tery: questioning Tery, giving advice to Tery, and then providing a case on someone after they attacked Tery. Right now I'm leaning scum on RR and I want to hear reads from him in his next post about some of the people he's never even mentioned, like Asdioh (they posted gifs back and forth to each other but that doesn't count), JTB, Soup, and Felipe.


@Sokr: What are your thoughts on the JTB wagon? If the deadline were today, would you support the JTB lynch and/or vote for him?

@Swiss: Thoughts on Swords and Adum?

July debunks Red Ryu's case on Kantrip and displays a dislike for Red Ryu. Something to look into, as how she follows up is very important.

@Sokr: Kk thank you

Unvote

Vote: JTB

I agree with Swords that a JTB lynch is better than a Seikend lynch, and I'm willing to see what a Tery replacement has to say. RR is someone that I want to look at toMorrow, and I still want a list of reads from him toDay, even if it's not comprehensive there's literally half the player list he hasn't addressed or provided a read on.

Oh. This is how she follows up? She agress that JTB is a better lynch than Seikend, but is sure to note that Swords is the one who said that originally. Safe, covering options for when JTB is town and Seikend scum.

- - -

#653-663 between Swiss and Ryker discuss RR scum in a way that makes me believe that Swiss is town, knowing RR was scum.

@July:

Asdioh is null, no impression thus far.

Adumb is town, him v Kantrip solidified that along with his push on Swords, though that is reading TvT to me.

Swords is leaning town.

I should get to you response to my case on Kantrip I guess, just don't wanna atm.

666. Could THIS be the condemning post? It's just Red Ryu answering July. This was definitely easier to get than Swiss and adum's answers. I mean, July only had to ask once.

No.

Kantrip is town.

I'm happy to change my Swords stance at the first sign of a lynch on him. But until then I'll stick with town.

Also John2K4 dies soon. If I die, make sure he gets lynched.

Swiss still holds onto John being scum.

I'm not convinced he's scum, because of his inactivity it's more of a shot in the dark than I would like, but he has definitely been unhelpful. If he flips scum that's awesome, if not then I have some leads I know I'll look into toMorrow.



Here's where I'm at right now:

Asdioh
Soup
Felipe
Adum
Swiss
Kantrip
Sokr
Ryker
John
JTB
Swords
RR

Kantrip is a town lean, but he also happens to be a part of that lime green group of people who are cautious town leans because they are either hard to read or I haven't played against them before.

I didn't like Kantrip's early play but I liked him better after Adum v. Kantrip played out in its entirety and he seems to be putting himself out there much more than in Awkward Moments. If you have a case against him, I'm willing to consider it, but he hasn't sent up any red flags for me as of late.

July's stance on JTB is very safe. "I'm not convinced he's scum but let's lynch him anyways." This REEKS knowing that her top scumpick is Red Ryu, and is actually correct where JTB isn't. Her readlist is also quite fate, but hey no big deal

This is a big point though: July has RR as her top scumpick and has made a case, but there is no effort or intent to push her case or to do anything about it. She carries on with the JTB lynch, even saying someone can hammer. Bleck.

My leads are RR and Swords. Right now my reads look like this:

Town

Asdioh
Felipe
Kantrip

Leaning Town

Sokr
Soup
Adum
Swiss

Null

John2k4

Leaning Scum

Swords

Scum

RR


As you can see my list of scum picks/suspicions are pretty small, I think that most if not all of the scum lies in RR/Swords/John.



He was here and he was one of Ryker's top suspects yesterDay. But Kantrip has answered everything quickly and honestly, I don't see any sort of scum intent coming from his responses, so he's not someone I want to look into or reconsider my read on toDay.

So after the JTB mislynch, Jult still has RR as her lead. She said she would get lots from a JTB townflip yet her reads really didn't change much.

Adumbrodeus.

@July: I'm your largest scum pick, but why did you not vote me?

@Soup: What are you doing with Swiss right now? I don't understand the point of making a conversation over who is king of the game of the sorts.

Interesting. Red Ruy asks July why she's not voting him. Hmm.

My read on you is much less based in your push on JTB, who was useless anyways, it was and is about how you communicated with Swiss and Adum. Even when you expressed suspicion for Adum, you always backed away from them, and then rather unexpectedly he was a town lean for you. But even then you really had trouble giving a solid stance on him because he was not in favor of the JTB lynch, which was a very unexpected and weak reason to have doubts about him and influence you from having a town read to a town lean. With Swiss I simply haven't seen much of an attempt from you to read him, so I'm looking forward to seeing where your investigation into him leads.



Admittedly I have a lot of meta backing my Asdioh read. When he's town he seems to be open with his thoughts and you can see where he's going with his scumhunting. As scum he seems more defensive, more controlled with his connections and he holds his cards closer to his chest, so it's harder to see where his scumhunting is going. This game he's definitely been willing to question people, doesn't seem worried about connections, and I like the way he thought through the JTB lynch and questioned it, he was open with his objections even if they came too late.



I'll place my vote after the holidays when I know I'll be here. Hopefully by then I'll also be able to see where Swords' investigation of Swiss goes.

Wait never mind. July answers with "I'll do it later" and there is never a follow-up. Just a poor distancing attempt, then.

My top scum pick is and still is Kantrip. I want him dead.

Vote: Kantrip

July what were your thoughts on Ryker and his slot in general? I'm super interested in this question more than other events.

"July what were your thoughts on Ryker and his slot in general? I'm super interested in this question more than other events."

Wut?

Good lord, 30 pages of reading isn't happening yet, I'm going to do D2 reads for now...

Here's some of my thoughts:

Kanty's posting a lot of questions, seems to have a good understanding of what he is doing. I can see pro-town behind some of his posts. ...
You kept your vote on me for, what, two posts? Don't want to vote me?

Swiss strikes me as "meeeeeeeeeh"..he is almost too confident in his posts at times.

Soup's interesting: his 813 of:

Really strikes me as odd that he'd say it as "they make good sword practice". Referring to Sworddancer?

Sokr quips up with a question every now and then.

RR, why do you dislike Kanty so much?

I like Asidoh's points he makes in his posts.

--

@ Kanty, those are my exact thoughts from the start of D2.

This post actually is pretty useful. John asks his scummate a question and says Swiss is "meeeeeeeh" to him. His behaviour with RR is what I'll be looking for, to see if it comes up again.

The little summary of why I didn't like you was taken from my case from before, after I catch up I can try to find it. My point was that the bulk of your scummy behavior for me was not the JTB case, it was your interacts with Adumb and Swiss. When Swiss proposed the idea that if two of you/Swiss/Adumb found the other to be scummy then that person's lynch would happen, I thought that scum in that group would try to appease the other two unless there was a viable opportunity to get one of the other players lynched. Swiss and Adumb have been trying to get reads on each other and you and challenging other members of said group, but with you I saw an attitude of appeasement. The way you responded to Adumb challenging you seemed like you found his case scummy, but then you ended up with a town lean on him that I didn't see coming at all from your interactions, and you've avoided confrontation with Swiss. That's what makes me think that you are more interested in staying on Swiss and Adumb's good sides than actually scumhunting on them, which I haven't seen you do.



I didn't like the Tery slot and the Tery/RR interactions, Ryker's play was better but if he hadn't been nk'ed I'm sure I would have found him scummy and then questioned myself because I know I'm biased because his playstyle which makes me think he is scummy, so I'm honestly pretty glad he's flipped already.



Obviously important post considering the cop claim that comes after this. The read on Adum as null-town and the fact that here:



Adum is third in his list of desired claims makes me lean towards Kantrip's result being fake: I would think that he'd be most interested in Adum's claim and would consider Adumb not so likely town if the guilty were legit. However, his explanation for his read on Adumb in that first post points to him generally being cautious and and concerned about getting a read on Adumb, which is why it makes sense that he would chose Adumb as his "guilty" to try and get a response out of him.



Current impression: Kantrip is town who is looking for a reaction from Adumb. Deff looks like a gambit, but not a random one.



Current Impression: This worries me because this is similar to how I responded to the cop guilty against me in D.Gray as scum. Immediately on the defensive without considering miller or sanity issues. Thinking back to my mindset as scum I was immediately like "**** I need to discredit him" and that's where my defensive crossvote came in. I've never been in that position as town but I think it would be easier to consider sanity or miller possibilities along with "the cop is scum" because you know that something somewhere is off and you are getting the brunt of it. As scum you KNOW the person's result is right, whether its a legit claim or not, so it would probably be harder to bring up miller and sanity issues because you would be aware that it is not really the case.



Sorry I'm late to the party, was eating turkey and beating people up for $3 waffle makers. Totally worth it.



Current Impression: Kantrip wants a response from everyone on every aspect of his guilty result. Cop-like behavior? Not so much. Town behavior? Yes.



First bolded: You say this in a very matter-of-fact way. Are say that you will fully trust Kantrip once he explains how his results are reported, and if so why is that significant to you?

Second bolded: Why is Swords cleared as not scummate to you and can you explain briefly why you get indy vibes from him?



Current Impression: I like the way Adum addressed this, and the way he stepped back and looked at Kantrip's intent. Adum's previous responses to the guilty result seemed more emotional and responsive where this one took a step back and rationalized Kantrip's actions. I think that is an understandable response, not confirmed town but it leaves Adumb pretty much where he was for me before this guilty result came in: leaning town. It leaves Kantrip, Asdioh, and Swiss as strong town reads as well. Definitely agree that I disliked John's reaction, which was very nonchalant, and Swords. I disagree with Adumb that this makes RR look more town; I actually really disliked his post and it had this sense that he knew something that we don't that I really didn't like.



This bolded is exactly what I was talking about when I said that RR has this air that he knows more than he should as town. I also agree that RR and John are the best lynch options toDay, I also really don't like Swords but Swiss said earlier toDay he wanted more time to read him so I'm okay with dealing with him toMorrow.

Vote: Red Ryu

I'd be good with a John lynch as well, but I haven't seen anything I've liked from RR. However, I will admit that I'm anxiously awaiting this Asdioh case of his.

July didn't respond to my cop "gambit" until after it was over. She says she is fine with RR or John lynch. Both of which would yield scum. Now, if she does the same thing that she did D1, she is scum.

Vote: RR

Oh lol nvm


Unvote

Vote: Swordancer

Also:

This is either really crafty or felipe is not partnered with RR.

I won't switch my vote right now since he's at L-2 but I am deff in favor of this lynch toDay. Also in favor of Swords claiming at this point.

Yep. July says she is in favour of a Swords lynch. That's what I thought.

Scum.

Unvote

Vote: July

July's behaviour in the John lynch also makes sense. She was expecting a no lynch to occur, and so she put her vote on for the townie points. I'm sure she wasn't expecting felipe to pop in with a hammer.

Also, scum probably messes with tracker through roleblocking. When roleblocked, a tracker gets "did not visit anyone" as a result. Adum was probably just roleblocked N2. Or one of Swiss/Asdioh were roleblocked and RR/John sent in the kill.

 

[felipe_9595]

Red Ruy answers Swiss's RQS questions directed at him and he "took note that adum glanced over [RR's] vote on him". Doesn't seem like something that promotes a RR/adum scumteam.



Don't see why Red Ryu would ask this question, especially now knowing that he was scum. He asked it to July, it can be an attempt to distance by asking useless questions.



adum follows up on Red Ruy and asks him what RVS tells him and why. Just taking note for now to look out for follow-ups.



Just noting that July answered the question about Soup scum from Red Ryu.



RR/Sokr looks unlikely from this post. This was RR responding to Sokr saying something about being a noob. I don't remember, and this really is just gut.



Seikend refers to Kantrip, adum, Soup, Tery, Asdioh, felipe, and Sokr in this post. Going to see if there is a trend of ignoring scummates. Swiss and July are the neglected players who are still alive at this point.



The bottom part is all that concerns me. Adum reminds RR to answer his question. Following up, I like it. Also reminds Soup to answer why he voted for RR. RR/adum looks unlikely so far.



RR finally answers adum's question.



July is just answering a bunch of questions. So far, I haven't really seen initiative or drive from her. RR is one of the people she responds to. July just mentions that she agrees with what RR says about Tery and Soup's responses.



Here is where Swiss pointed out Sword's "vig crumb". But this is not the important part of Swiss's post right now. In this same post, he voted for RR as his top scum pick and called Seikend scum (even thought I'm pretty sure it was pressure at this point). Not sure what to make of this, but just noting it for now.



Swiss tells his top scumpick in Red Ryu to take a stance on Kantrip's posting. Scumhunting and pressuring scum picks. Fine by me.



This is how Red Ryu responds to Swiss. Seems like it's just as difficult as it was for adum to get a proper answer out of Red Ryu. Not sure what to make of what Red Ryu is asking here.



Seems odd that Swiss is saying this to his top scum pick. He's asking Red Ryu for another stance, as well though. So I don't mind.



Well Red Ryu answers this question. Mostly just quoting this exchange for completeness sake in my connections, I don't actually know what to think about it.

- - -

Just noting at this time that the initial town read I got on felipe still makes sense to me.



Here we go, finally another Seikend post. Read on Kantrip and adum with no reasoning. Asks for Sokr to clarify something. The only other thing he bothered responding to is Swiss calling him scum. He tries to answer the question without acting suspicious about it, and that reaction could go one of two ways, knowing that he was scum: 1. He doesn't want townSwiss to keep pushing him, so he complies and tries to avoid conflict. 2. Swiss could be his scummate.

Still not sure if avoidance is the connection I'm looking for, but if it is then July and Red Ryu have both been ignored by Seikend.



Seikend answers felipe's question of "why is Kantrip null"?



Among many other questions, Swiss asks RR if Seikend should replace out. This is pretty funny because they were scummates.



July debunks Red Ryu's case on Kantrip and displays a dislike for Red Ryu. Something to look into, as how she follows up is very important.



Oh. This is how she follows up? She agress that JTB is a better lynch than Seikend, but is sure to note that Swords is the one who said that originally. Safe, covering options for when JTB is town and Seikend scum.

- - -

#653-663 between Swiss and Ryker discuss RR scum in a way that makes me believe that Swiss is town, knowing RR was scum.



666. Could THIS be the condemning post? It's just Red Ryu answering July. This was definitely easier to get than Swiss and adum's answers. I mean, July only had to ask once.



Swiss still holds onto John being scum.



July's stance on JTB is very safe. "I'm not convinced he's scum but let's lynch him anyways." This REEKS knowing that her top scumpick is Red Ryu, and is actually correct where JTB isn't. Her readlist is also quite fate, but hey no big deal

This is a big point though: July has RR as her top scumpick and has made a case, but there is no effort or intent to push her case or to do anything about it. She carries on with the JTB lynch, even saying someone can hammer. Bleck.



So after the JTB mislynch, Jult still has RR as her lead. She said she would get lots from a JTB townflip yet her reads really didn't change much.



Interesting. Red Ruy asks July why she's not voting him. Hmm.



Wait never mind. July answers with "I'll do it later" and there is never a follow-up. Just a poor distancing attempt, then.



"July what were your thoughts on Ryker and his slot in general? I'm super interested in this question more than other events."

Wut?



This post actually is pretty useful. John asks his scummate a question and says Swiss is "meeeeeeeh" to him. His behaviour with RR is what I'll be looking for, to see if it comes up again.



July didn't respond to my cop "gambit" until after it was over. She says she is fine with RR or John lynch. Both of which would yield scum. Now, if she does the same thing that she did D1, she is scum.



This is either really crafty or felipe is not partnered with RR.



Yep. July says she is in favour of a Swords lynch. That's what I thought.

Scum.

Unvote

Vote: July

July's behaviour in the John lynch also makes sense. She was expecting a no lynch to occur, and so she put her vote on for the townie points. I'm sure she wasn't expecting felipe to pop in with a hammer.

Also, scum probably messes with tracker through roleblocking. When roleblocked, a tracker gets "did not visit anyone" as a result. Adum was probably just roleblocked N2. Or one of Swiss/Asdioh were roleblocked and RR/John sent in the kill.

Already explained why the bolded part cannot be true. But the second part makes sense.

Sokr, Swiss, Adum. If july flips town FOLLOW MY PLAN!!!!

 

[Sokr]

Felipe, shut up. Yes we know you have a "failproof" plan. The more you talk about it makes me less likely to follow it.

 

[felipe_9595]

Its failproof is you are not indy. Are you indy sokr?

 

[Kantrip]

felipe, just stop.

 

[felipe_9595]

Stop about what.

 

[Kantrip]

Your "failproof plan" has been suggested enough times already. I'm really getting tired of seeing the same thing. Sokr, Swiss, and adum don't need help with their Night Actions, and now you're just jumping on everything and it's just dumb.

I don't see how the bolded in my post is impossible anyways. What stops adum from getting a result of "did not visit anyone" when he is roleblocked, exactly?

 

[felipe_9595]

have you ever seen a game with that kind of awnser???? I have never. Usually its a "XXX Visited __________" or a "You was roleblocked"

 

[felipe_9595]

*You were, derp, broken english.

And why do you write "Failproof" ??? Cant see a flaw on it (If Sokr is an indy then obviusly not gonna work, but if he is indy we would be ****ed either way)

 

[Sokr]

Unvote
Vote: July

N2 makes sense if Adum gets a no visit when roleblocked. Kantrips case I didn't quite follow but July and Felipe seem to make the most sense. Right now I can live with Felipe being dumb town.

 

[Sokr]

Felipe, following set plan over a couple days in this game is stupid as there are so many unknown factors that could come into account, especially in a closed setup. It would be better to make judgements on what to do after each momentous event.

 

[Kantrip]

That is not substantial in any way. Different games are different, and mods have reasons for doing what they do. This is a game with 3 town investigative roles if adum is a tracker, and scum has to have some way to mess with these roles. Swiss claims to have roleblocked adum toNight, and adum claims to have seen Swiss visit nobody. It's entirely possible that adum gets a result saying "______ did not visit anyone" when in fact he was just roleblocked.

John/Red Ryu/July

Night 1, Sworddancer.'s action failed. This is pretty obviously a roleblock. But our two roleblockers (Asdioh and Swiss) claim not to have done this. Asdioh said he took no action, and adum tracked Swiss visiting Sokr, so it is confirmed that there is another roleblock unaccounted for.

Night 2, we know that Swiss says he roleblocked Red Ryu, and Asdioh roleblocked John. Adum says he saw July go nowhere. The scum roleblock we already know is present has to have gone somewhere, so where? To Swiss? Sure, maybe it went to Swiss and Red Ryu inputted the kill. This would mean, then, that Red Ryu also has to have been the roleblocker. Red Ryu died this same Night.

Night 3, I was unable to check Asdioh for a gun. I overlooked the fact that investigate goes after kill in NAR, so this means my investigation probably just failed because Asdioh was killed before it went off. An oversight on my part that indicates that Red Ryu could have in fact been the roleblocker. Swiss says he roleblocked adum, and adum says he tracked Swiss going nowhere.

Either way, it is two different options for Julyscum. One where she is a roleblocker, and one where she is just a goon.

@Sokr: July said that Red Ryu was her top scum pick for TWO DAY PHASES in a row. However, she joined the JTB wagon D1, and the Swords wagon D2, and never actually pushed Red Ryu. Red Ryu was scum, as you know from when you killed him N2, and July's lack of push or intent to push her top scumpick is really grimy when we know that Red Ryu was scum. Does this make sense?

 

[July]

I quite honestly don't have time to read everything Kantrip wrote, if ya'll lynch me then at least consider Swiss as a possibility please, something about none of his night actions being provable as a roleblocker doesn't set well with me. There are six of us left, Kantrip is town, Sokr is town, pretty sure Adum is town or else there is another mafia role that would need to be accounted for. Not gonna lie, it's tempting to say that Felipe is scum but I honestly don't believe that, I still think that Swiss scum is a possibility and I would LOVE it if people didn't just write that off toMorrow.

I don't have time or the energy to actually engage in conversation about this game anymore especially when people aren't going to listen, so my lynch is just as well. I want to go on the record, however, as saying I still don't believe there are two town roleblockers, so like I said, look into Swiss toMorrow before you guys commit yourself to a plan that is not failproof no matter how failproof you think it is. So yeah, Swiss is my choice for scum, he might have a redirective or manipulative role or he may actually be scum roleblocker, but you have no proof he is really roleblocker because none of his claimed roleblocks have actually presented results (we can't prove Sokr was roleblocked, nor RR, and Adum says he received a result last Night). Aiight? Aiight.

 

[Sokr]

Kantrip, why are you trying to explain your logic to me? I'm voting for July too. How many mislynches/missvigs are we allowed?

 

[Kantrip]

Because I want you to understand the logic. I don't want you sheeping. Me trying to get you to understand shouldn't concern you, why are you even worried about it?

Gee this game is getting stale.

July/felipe/Swiss

The scum is in there.

 

[felipe_9595]

That is not substantial in any way. Different games are different, and mods have reasons for doing what they do. This is a game with 3 town investigative roles if adum is a tracker, and scum has to have some way to mess with these roles. Swiss claims to have roleblocked adum toNight, and adum claims to have seen Swiss visit nobody. It's entirely possible that adum gets a result saying "______ did not visit anyone" when in fact he was just roleblocked.

John/Red Ryu/July

Night 1, Sworddancer.'s action failed. This is pretty obviously a roleblock. But our two roleblockers (Asdioh and Swiss) claim not to have done this. Asdioh said he took no action, and adum tracked Swiss visiting Sokr, so it is confirmed that there is another roleblock unaccounted for.

Night 2, we know that Swiss says he roleblocked Red Ryu, and Asdioh roleblocked John. Adum says he saw July go nowhere. The scum roleblock we already know is present has to have gone somewhere, so where? To Swiss? Sure, maybe it went to Swiss and Red Ryu inputted the kill. This would mean, then, that Red Ryu also has to have been the roleblocker. Red Ryu died this same Night.

Night 3, I was unable to check Asdioh for a gun. I overlooked the fact that investigate goes after kill in NAR, so this means my investigation probably just failed because Asdioh was killed before it went off. An oversight on my part that indicates that Red Ryu could have in fact been the roleblocker. Swiss says he roleblocked adum, and adum says he tracked Swiss going nowhere.

Either way, it is two different options for Julyscum. One where she is a roleblocker, and one where she is just a goon.

@Sokr: July said that Red Ryu was her top scum pick for TWO DAY PHASES in a row. However, she joined the JTB wagon D1, and the Swords wagon D2, and never actually pushed Red Ryu. Red Ryu was scum, as you know from when you killed him N2, and July's lack of push or intent to push her top scumpick is really grimy when we know that Red Ryu was scum. Does this make sense?

Do you see what i mean??? when Swords was blocked he got that his action failed. Swiss was roleblocked and thats why adum got Swiss visiting no one.

 

[felipe_9595]

And no, scum is between me you and july, dont try to escape with flawed logic and ainvalid arguments. Swiss is clear.

 

[Kantrip]

Swords and adum are two different roles with two different actions.

Please stop talking.

 

[felipe_9595]

Wut no you are trying the clear yourself, you are far from being clear. Swiss is more clear than you. The maf is between you me and july.

 

[felipe_9595]

The ****??? So you think the PRS obtain differents awnsers if they are roleblocked??? Dude you are desesperated.

 

[Sokr]

Felipe, do you honestly think scumKantrip would swing a John lynch on his scummate like he did yesterday? He could've gotten away with not doing that and he would still be a town read to everyone. And Kantrip, I explained my logic instead of just saying I like your argument. How is that sheeping?