Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Soup, it has nothing to do with you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@Ryker: what do you think of a JTB lynch? It's the most relevant question to ask anyone at this point.

I don't care one way or another. Sword's case isn't exceptional and god knows it wouldn't stick on me. There's alternate explanations of motive.

What do YOU think of a JTB lynch? You've been here the entire time.

 

[Kantrip]

I agree that Sword's case was not very strong.

However, for a Day 1 case it was perfectly acceptable and I can't see a better lynch subject barring policy lynches that had the potential to benefit town.

Also Asdioh, what you said about connections is true. However, that only applies for garnering additional connections. If you feel like the things that have been said are sufficient already, you are free to go with that and announce that connections are to be had with the lynch. I mean, it's a given that every flip will yield connections of some sort, unless the player has no interactions with others and doesn't get referenced.

Are you advocating a policy lynch Asdioh, or do you have a better target in mind?

 

[Sokr]

Ok Kantrip, here you are. I hope you like it.

Soup's probably going to be a huge distraction this game like he always is, so I expect to see a quicklynch on him by the time I get back.

I'm not sure what the story behing this is but I see it from a couple possible angles.
Scum: He knows Soup isn't scum and could either be scared because Soup knows Sword's scumplay to well. This I find unlikely seeing how the game has gone so far. Another one is he sees Soup as a significant opponent.
Or he could just have some background and not like playing with Soup. Or it could be something to get a reaction and some reads on Soup.

I'm probably going to just ask questions and stuff. Generally do things that will force information out. Unless I find someone who is legitimately suspicious, when you know, I'm going to murder them.

This could definitely be taken to some night kill (or day kill) role. Not necessarily vig as soup and swiss say, but doesn't sound like something a VT would say seeing as a lone VT has virtually no power to kill someone.

Keep this on the low, but I am using a bit of meta to get my town reads on Soup and Kantrip. I have other reasons for thinking both are town, but meta is playing a little part in this for me.

If he had other reasons, why not elaborate on them? Could this be a possible mason slip or some other role that lets you know other's alignment? If so then probs not day cop as I don't think he'd be given two investigations in one day.

Thank you JTB, I'll be keeping that read list in mind if you flip scum.

The case:

Spoiler

These are all of JTB's "catch up" posts. Something that all of them have in common is that the content in them is very forced. Not only that, but a lot of the content is shallow, and a lot of the time JTB just points stuff out without really providing a stance on it.

Let us dissect these posts.



This is JTB's first catch up post, which I was pretty suspicious of from the get go. However, I decided to keep mum about it because I wanted to see what JTB would do without suspicion on him (you can see this when I stated that I wanted people to give JTB time to catch up).

All of this post is him commenting on none issues. He avoided hot topics of the topic at the time, like Kantrip vs Adumb, so only to to comment on stuff like what Soup said to Skor, as well as FUDish suspicion of Soup's early interactions with Swiss, as well as Adumb and Swiss being scum together.

Why is JTB doing this you asked? It's because as scum, he's struggling to find something new to say. He wants to be viewed as a townie for producing new content, but since a lot of everything that is relevant has already been said, he is instead is just producing weak, irrelevant material of a FUDish nature. It's also entirely possible that as scum, he's simply afraid to take a stance on something of importance here. He does later, but done cautiously.



His second catch up post, which pretty much cemented my suspicion of him. Even though he had limited access, this still reeks of covering none issues. So much more stuff went on before this post that JTB failed to cover. His analyses are irrelevant and, as Kantrip pointed out, week.

Truly JTB doesn't actually care about catching scum, as he is scum.



Probably JTB's best post, just because he finally comments on some relevant things, but it's not really enough. A lot of the time here he looks cautious with his stances, just as only poking at Soup and Kantrip suspicion.



Again largely focusing on none issues and providing shallow analyses on them.

There you have it. So in review, JTB is scum because (in order for most prominent reason to least):

-he's forcing content, as evidenced by the fact that he spends a good amount of time commenting on none issues.
-his analyses is shallow, and cautious
-he only points out things rather than taking a stance on them sometimes

I want at least two others to join me on this wagon. Soup, Swiss, July, Kantrip, you're all invited, but first come first serve.

This and his other cases against JTB I found to be extremely well founded.

Whatever Sword is, he isn't a VT.
I'm not ready to say he isn't town aligned but I am fairly certain he isn't scum aligned. Possibly and individual.

Also Sword, it's Sokr not Skor.

 

[Sokr]

Oh, and my JTB read was for many the same reasons as Sword's. After I read his case I looked back at JTB and found truth in Sword's suspicions.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually if JTB flips scum than I'll be much more willing to believe Asdioh town for it. I don't think Asdioh scum will directly defend his partner like that, or actually try to redirect the wagon when JTB is pretty much a lost cause for him. If he flips town than I'll just take it as null.

Btw guys what JTB is doing right now IS scummy. After being pressured he has gone inactive (unless he's v/la and I'm unaware). Not only that, but he's pretty much 180'd his read on me with an extremely reachy case about I'm not actually trying to be a factor on his wagon. This of course is absurd since I'm pretty much the closet thing to a leader on this wagon, which is how it's always been.

What I want to ask is this: if you outright claim that a JTB lynch will get connections long before the lynch actually occurs, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? If anything, I would think the people that say "let's lynch this guy for connections" would seem the scummiest because they seem to already know the person is going to flip town. Meanwhile, scum will be aware that the lynch is mostly for connections, so they will be extra careful to forge the right connections, or lack thereof. The lynch will become essentially pointless.

The people who said this were contrasting it to lynches on inactives. Plus townie's without foresight could of very well of said this as well. Don't WIFOM yourself.

July I forgot about Adumb. The reason I have him as slight town is because I see him legitimately scumhunting and pressuring his scum reads. That said, I also think that's he's pressured tow townies, myself and Kantrip. I know that that's not really scummy in itself since it's really only evidence that he's wrong, but that's enough to send up some red flags to me. A "good" player not only being what I consider to be wrong, but also missing what I would consider to be more obvious scumreads , like JTB. All and all, I see townie intent, but the red flags keep me from placing his as a solid town read.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

wow I just got mega ninja'd

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

okay skor I'll keep that in mind

Ryker elaborate. Do you just find the case is weak or are you just flat out against it? I'll be more than willing to debate you on it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

July I forgot about Adumb. The reason I have him as slight town is because I see him legitimately scumhunting and pressuring his scum reads. That said, I also think that's he's pressured tow townies, myself and Kantrip. I know that that's not really scummy in itself since it's really only evidence that he's wrong, but that's enough to send up some red flags to me. A "good" player not only being what I consider to be wrong, but also missing what I would consider to be more obvious scumreads , like JTB. All and all, I see townie intent, but the red flags keep me from placing his as a solid town read.

Wait... so one of the reasons you don't have an outright townread on me is because I don't have a scumread on JTB?


Die.


Implicitly pressuring me to join the JTB lynch while implicitly legitimizing it if he flips town (because after all it was obvious).


Seriously, swords needs to die.

 

[Kantrip]

Sokr don't rolefish.

Adum, I don't think a Sword lynch is the best thing to swing toDay. It would be better to look into that for toMorrow, because it's a lynch I wouldn't want to rush. I may have a better opinion on a Sword lynch toMorrow, as well.

I'm not saying I disagree, though, because I have been looking at Sword with a puzzled expression in some cases.

 

[Sokr]

I agree with adumb to an extent. Sword may be to dangerous to be kept alive. However i am not ready to vote him yet. I think we should wait and see how things look Tomorrow.

 

[Sokr]

Wow, ninja'd.

 

[Sokr]

@Kantrip

What's wrong with rolefishing if it helps get an alignment and gets me a read?

 

[Kantrip]

It helps scum more than town.

I fail to see how you benefit from speculating if someone is a Vanilla Townie or a Power Role. Both are town, and deciding one over the other will not help town at all. Scum, however, wouldn't mind NKing a Power Role so as to remove some power from town.

 

[Asdioh]

Ok. I just re-read JTB. He hasn't posted much, and what he has posted has been shallow. He hasn't pushed much. He doesn't have strong stances. But dude, if JTB is not town, I will eat the hat I am wearing.
Disregard the fact that the last time I said something like this turned out terribly.

If JTB flips scum, I will be willing to believe that Sword is town.

@everyone: does Sword vs JTB look TvT, TvS, or SvS to you?
for those unfamiliar, t = town, s = scum

 

[Kantrip]

How much does that hat cost?



Wait is it the same hat?

I have a feeling you don't trust me after awkward moments. Is this true?

Sword vs JTB? Not SvS, I can say that much.

 

[Asdioh]

LOL kantrip

i was literally just looking at this post while thinking I was still in this thread and i was like "haha good one ^_^" and then i saw kuz's posts and i was like oh god what

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The contact I've had recently with JTB is via LoL. He is either playing with his team or playing Skyrim.

 

[Asdioh]

Speaking of which, nothing's happening here so I'm gonna go play Skyrim.

everyone, answer my 695, it won't be hard

 

[Kantrip]

I'm going to do another read of JTB.

Does anybody remember who initially said they would get connections from this lynch? All I know is it wasn't me.

 

[Sokr]

@Kantrip

i guess i didn't explain. the fact that he claimed he could murder people implies that his roll doesn't require other's help to kill people. i suppose there is a roll like for any alignment though huh? Dammit why do i end up killing my own cases?

 

[Asdioh]

I'm going to do another read of JTB.

Does anybody remember who initially said they would get connections from this lynch? All I know is it wasn't me.

ha, if it wasn't you then I don't know who it was. You're the one that comes to mind when I think of "JTB will give connections"

I know I was the first one to vote him, because he was inactive and I wanted to get something out of him. Sword made his case on him after JTB started actually posting, and that's when the wagon formed, and I got off after that.

@Kantrip

i guess i didn't explain. the fact that he claimed he could murder people implies that his roll doesn't require other's help to kill people. i suppose there is a roll like for any alignment though huh? Dammit why do i end up killing my own cases?

role*

There's really no reason to talk about it. Swiss talking about 'vig crumbs' is just one of those things you should ignore, and let him do his own thing.

 

[Sokr]

@asdioh

id say IvS or TvS. Whatever it is id say not SvS

 

[Sokr]

ha, if it wasn't you then I don't know who it was. You're the one that comes to mind when I think of "JTB will give connections"

I know I was the first one to vote him, because he was inactive and I wanted to get something out of him. Sword made his case on him after JTB started actually posting, and that's when the wagon formed, and I got off after that.

role*

There's really no reason to talk about it. Swiss talking about 'vig crumbs' is just one of those things you should ignore, and let him do his own thing.

I wasn't thinking about that. This was my own thinking.

 

[Kantrip]

@Kantrip

i guess i didn't explain. the fact that he claimed he could murder people implies that his roll doesn't require other's help to kill people. i suppose there is a roll like for any alignment though huh? Dammit why do i end up killing my own cases?

You're reading too far into it. What's to say that the comment was anything more than a side-comment with no bearing on his role? Swiss has already pointed out the "vig crumb" in the statement, but I'm pretty sure that was a comment meant to see how people responded. I honestly don't find it to be a crumb at all.

You do, though? Do you think Sword's role has the ability to "murder" other players?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Adumb that was only part of it. I also think your pushes have been wrong.

Btw how is that updated JTB read coming along?

Asdioh I think it's TvS.

 

[Sokr]

You're reading too far into it. What's to say that the comment was anything more than a side-comment with no bearing on his role? Swiss has already pointed out the "vig crumb" in the statement, but I'm pretty sure that was a comment meant to see how people responded. I honestly don't find it to be a crumb at all.

You do, though? Do you think Sword's role has the ability to "murder" other players?

I do.

 

[Kantrip]

2 days until deadline and in need of 3 replacements.

I have enough to use as far as connections go with JTB, but I think this should be the lynch today.

Vote: JTB

Don't stray from this, I don't want another claim and I don't want a quick wagon, I think this suffices just fine, unless you have something more to speak.

I have concerns over Some people but I don't think its much, sword, are you ok with this?

Ah here we go, I believe this was the first mention of connections wrt JTB's lynch.

I'm not sure how many connections I actually do have off of JTB, reading through him again. There are a lot of hollow statements thrown out there, but any of them could have been faked. The thing is, they would only be faked as scum. If so, there we go we hit scum. Otherwise, they are most likely true in JTB's POV, so we do get a few reads after all.

Hmmmm...

1. adumbrodeus
2. John
3. Ryker
4. Sokr
5. Kantrip
6. Sworddancer.
7. JTB
8. Swiss
9. Soupamario
10. Felipe_9595
11. July
12. Asdioh
13. Red Ryu

Removing town reads and players who have put hardly anything out there. Also removing Ryker and John who just replaced in to inactive slots.

Also I think Swiss and adum should definitely not be lynched D1.

This leaves me with Sword or JTB.

If we're going to have a lynch toDay, it should be one of these two.

I do still believe JTB is the way to go, after all. Huh.

 

[Kantrip]

Adumb that was only part of it. I also think your pushes have been wrong.

Btw how is that updated JTB read coming along?

Asdioh I think it's TvS.

Random flashback to Housepets, where T-Block made a case against JTB and got JTB mislynched. His confidence that JTB was going to flip scum was especially surprising in that game, considering he knew the contrary was true.

Tell me honestly, Sword: How likely do you think it is that JTB is scum?

 

[Sokr]

Kantrip, what do you think of adumb's six hundred eighty nine? (My keyboard is derping so i can't type numbers)

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

70% to place a number on it

Tell me, how was JTB's play that game Kantrip?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Random flashback to Housepets, where T-Block made a case against JTB and got JTB mislynched. His confidence that JTB was going to flip scum was especially surprising in that game, considering he knew the contrary was true.

Tell me honestly, Sword: How likely do you think it is that JTB is scum?

This is because T Block is a good player and knows that good scum play must look genuine. He has to be confident or else others will accuse him of playing "safe."

Are you suggesting this about my play, Kantrip?

Asdioh, I don't even understand how you can have a town read on JTB. He's made like, 6 posts with content, each minimalistic. At best he should be null to you.

 

[Asdioh]

And I'm flashbacking to Bingo and Pizza mafias, where JTB got mislynched D1 in both of them.
I think it was J who lead the charge in both those games, and J was scum in one and town in the other, haha. It doesn't necessarily mean that the forerunner of the lynch (sword) is scum, but I think it's likely that JTB is town, as I've made clear by now.

I'm getting the feeling that JTB vs Sword is TvS, with Sword being the scum. I haven't had much of a read on him most of the game, but that is where I stand now. I find myself agreeing with Adum once again. The problem is, there are less than 48 hours to deadline and I don't really want to risk another claim. Even if JTB does flip town, I don't think it will be a huge loss because he hasn't really been playing much and it will indeed give some reads, as well as the possibility of Swords actually being somewhat cleared in my eyes.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Guys if you're going to have all these flashbacks than at least state rather or not it's synonymous with what he's been doing this game. Besides from just like, you know, stating that he was playing bad.

 

[Gova]

1. adumbrodeus ()
2. John2k4 ()
3. Ryker ()
4. Sokr (1) Felipe
5. Kantrip (1) RR
6. Sworddancer. (2) adumbrodeus, JTB
7. JTB (5) Sworddancer, Swiss, Kantrip, Soup, July
8. Swiss ()
9. Soupamario ()
10. Felipe_9595 ()
11. July ()
12. Asdioh ()
13. Red Ryu ()

Not voting - John2k4, Sokr, Ryker, Asdioh

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is November 18th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Kantrip

What's wrong with rolefishing if it helps get an alignment and gets me a read?

This is why Sokr is town.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@everyone: does Sword vs JTB look TvT, TvS, or SvS to you?
for those unfamiliar, t = town, s = scum

TvT, maybe.
TvS, yes.
SvS, nope.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Sword vs JTB is alignment vs. alignment.

Kantrip, why are you so scummy?

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, what do you think of adumb's six hundred eighty nine? (My keyboard is derping so i can't type numbers)

Wait... so one of the reasons you don't have an outright townread on me is because I don't have a scumread on JTB?


Die.


Implicitly pressuring me to join the JTB lynch while implicitly legitimizing it if he flips town (because after all it was obvious).


Seriously, swords needs to die.

It's okay. I don't disagree, and I am pretty sure there is more to it than just the one point in this post.

70% to place a number on it

Tell me, how was JTB's play that game Kantrip?

Scummy enough for T-Block to make a pretty convincing case.

That's why I'm reminded of that game: JTB looked scummy but was town. The thing is, even if he is town in this game too, there are no better lynch targets. The only thing that comes close is you, and I think it's best not to rush a claim out of you with a wagon following.

This is because T Block is a good player and knows that good scum play must look genuine. He has to be confident or else others will accuse him of playing "safe."

Are you suggesting this about my play, Kantrip?

Asdioh, I don't even understand how you can have a town read on JTB. He's made like, 6 posts with content, each minimalistic. At best he should be null to you.

I'm suggesting it as a possibility of your play. It's not the only outcome I'm looking at, and I'm not going to jump to a conclusion either way.

And I'm flashbacking to Bingo and Pizza mafias, where JTB got mislynched D1 in both of them.
I think it was J who lead the charge in both those games, and J was scum in one and town in the other, haha. It doesn't necessarily mean that the forerunner of the lynch (sword) is scum, but I think it's likely that JTB is town, as I've made clear by now.

Yes. Pushing the mislynch can really be done as either alignment when the player in question is competent. That's why you have to take it was a grain of salt.

I'm getting the feeling that JTB vs Sword is TvS, with Sword being the scum. I haven't had much of a read on him most of the game, but that is where I stand now. I find myself agreeing with Adum once again. The problem is, there are less than 48 hours to deadline and I don't really want to risk another claim. Even if JTB does flip town, I don't think it will be a huge loss because he hasn't really been playing much and it will indeed give some reads, as well as the possibility of Swords actually being somewhat cleared in my eyes.

This is interesting. I see where you're coming from here and I could understand this being true. I also see TvT as possible, as do I see JTB actually being scum a possibility. We've been applying our pressure and attention into a JTB lynch, and it looks like that will be the way to go.

Sword vs JTB is alignment vs. alignment.

Kantrip, why are you so scummy?

I couldn't tell you.

If you do actually believe this, though, you should bring up some posts or something and point it out.

 

[Kantrip]

Wow I'm messing up a lot of grammar and throwing random words in the wrong place.

Time for sleeping I guess.

@Red Ryu - Who do you want to see lynched? Your vote is still on me, apparently. Is this for a reason?