Brawlplusery Official Codeset 5.0 RC1 Discussion

[goodoldganon]

Why does an aerial Raptor Boost still send into helpless when it hits? I thought that would be one of the first things you'd do with the Conditional Action Modifier.

Cause Falcon doesn't need a recovery boost and the 'side effect' of the momentum code gives Falcon a HUGE hop off one where he connects with it, which is more then enough to recover in any given situation.

 

[GHNeko]

Also, if it didnt send into helpless, it'd be OP'd at the edge imo. NASL would allow him to **** people trying to come back on to the stage.

 

[ZeonStar]

I believe he's trying to say aerial choke didn't quite give frame advantage in vBrawl either on some characters.

Yeah, only characters with fast getup attacks that attack towards ganondorf's side after aerial gerudo lands. Geez, Ganondorf had so many stupid problems.

 

[goodoldganon]

Yeah, only characters with fast getup attacks that attack towards ganondorf's side after aerial gerudo lands. Geez, Ganondorf had so many stupid problems.

And yet Sakurai played as him. Ganondorf is even one of those characters that plays WORSE with items on so it's like he was purposefully made to be awful.

Anyway, yes we will be looking into the aerial choke winddown to prevent Ganondorf from being punished for landing it. We don't want it to replace the current chokes function. The aerial choke does more damage and is used for recoveries and skyride combos. The grounded choke is used for tech chasing. I'm gonna get an ok from the backroom and since the character discussion forums never turned out like I wanted them to, I'll be posting the final polish ideas for Ganondorf in his topic. Keep an eye out Zeon.

 

[ZeonStar]

And yet Sakurai played as him. Ganondorf is even one of those characters that plays WORSE with items on so it's like he was purposefully made to be awful.

Japan would like to have a word with you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gEOzGX6OFc

But yeah, Link's upsmash is amazing, I think it gives him a much needed boost in killing potential, great change on the backrooms behalf. Ill name him...Linkaknight.

 

[huntercrunch]

I just played around with this for a couple hours, and it feels like there should be more hit stun. It almost feels like playing vBrawl but faster...

 

[Adetque]

I found a glitch. As Lucario, if I up-B into the ground, I am unable to up-B again until I leave the ground.

EDIT: nevermind...

 

[Revven]

I found a glitch. As Lucario, if I up-B into the ground, I am unable to up-B again until I leave the ground.

Turn tap jump on, it'll work then. It was in normal Brawl, it's nothing new.

 

[[TSON]]

Hmm. I was playing with my friend Hinkage and he used MK's whorenado and MK was put on the layer above his effects. I replicated it later on, so I can youtube it if anyone wants it.

That's what we get for playing on Flat Zone 2 I guess xD

 

[SymphonicSage12]

i have an issue with the code with ganon gaining back his second jump after his down b. While the code actually works, it isnt that useful since he gets pulled down so much by his down b. The regaining the second jump would be more useful if his down b went at a less steep angle.

 

[Rudra]

i have an issue with the code with ganon gaining back his second jump after his down b. While the code actually works, it isnt that useful since he gets pulled down so much by his down b. The regaining the second jump would be more useful if his down b went at a less steep angle.

Try DI'ing more towards the diagonal blast zones when sent offstage horizontaly. You may get high enough to make better use of his Wizkick then.

 

[OmniOstrich]

First Flight of the Ostrich 5/30
5$ entry fee 70/20/10 split
13 entrants

1. NC-Echo (Olimar, KIRBY*)
2. Foxy (Falcon, MK, Squirtle)
3. Karn (Yoshi, Lucas, Squirtle)
4. Keith (Snake)

*Echo lost to foxy in the first set but when he went kirby it was 3-1. He basically said 'i dont actually think im that good with kirby, but he is the current meta knight of this game.'

 

[stingers]

Kirby is insane. My friend who mains Jiggs went Kirby just randomly trying people out and he almost beat my Lucas I've been working on since Rawfuls'. It's ********.

 

[goodoldganon]

Kirby was supposed to get a slight F-smash tone down when we buffed his n-air. It was on our to-do list and we just plumb forgot when we released the set. Sorry guys.

 

[Roxas215]

Kirby was supposed to get a slight F-smash tone down when we buffed his n-air. It was on our to-do list and we just plumb forgot when we released the set. Sorry guys.

Just sayin sry? Bump that. Just update the set. TONE DOWN THAT **** FOOT!! LOL


Anyway i haven't been here for a week. Does this new offical set have anything different from the 5/28 nightly build? If it don't then i dont have to update.

But yea kirby is too good!

 

[ShiroiKen]

Can the textures be installed in 4.1 PAL?

 

[Blank Mauser]

Opinions on new codeset:

Ivysaur's razor leaf was toned down too much. Its not very useful anymore. Its easy to punish, barely covers him and doesn't setup for much at all. 1.35x was already crippling him but at least it was usable.

I still think neither Kirby nor Squirtle need to be nerfed at all. There are better characters out there like Shiek, Diddy and Pikachu. Not saying any of them need to be nerfed but I think a lot of people are just aggravated at how safe Squirtle and Kirby are. That being said, damage output nerfs hardly solve that problem, and Kirby's Fsmash is already punishable as it is so I hope you don't go that route. I also don't think his Nair was really worth changing over an Fsmash and Utilt nerf.

Sonic's Usmash spike should make a return with slower startup, and I don't like his new nair at all.

I really think some characters are getting singled out too hastily in terms of nerfs and that they should be given second thoughts. If not now, sometime later in the metagame.

 

[proteininja]

Alright, Captain Falcon's Aerial Raptor Boost sucks, and the laziness of saying something like " Oh look, now he hops because my very general code has a sideeffect NEW MECHANIC!!!" is digusting. It kills falcon more than it saves him. The jump it gives varies greatly depending on character and distance traveled. It added jump fails at a recovery aid because any intelligent defender would air dodge it and falcon would die. It is only a reliable recovery when used in a position that would not need the added boost. Which is horizontal to the ledge about 5 feet out. This is when the move is useful, any other time an intelligent Falcon player would avoid using it as a spike outside of its normal recovery range because it would more often then not lead to death.

Which brings me to the point of a move that makes you special fall being able to randomly launch you half the distance of final D. It is stupid that this change found its way into the game. It should be removed ASAP.

 

[VietGeek]

There really isn't much to fix, his comboing issues are similar to Link's and Marth's in a way: it seems his staple moves are angled too low.

In which case, raise the angle of bair, and/or nair and zair.

If you raise nair's angle though, that may affect the reversal into the backswing, which rewards you for landing a badly spaced move (undoubtedly awesome and rewards being ballsy...which I do approve of). Which is why I suggest fixing bair and/or either nair or zair.

Some would argue fixing TL's zair may be broken, but eh, one of the more telegraphed moves, only has 1 hitbox, easily powershielded at higher levels of play, and isn't that amazing when punishment games and run speeds are increased. Hell, in vBrawl, once people learned the match-up against the tether char., zair becomes just a hindrance, not a potent threat.

But enough of my rant.

Those are his problem moves. What you want to do is entirely up to you guys.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'd like to stay away from Z-air on Tink, it's Link's thing now. Gotta try and keep the clones different. Now, I don't see how anyone could say Tink is bottom tier, but he seems kinda meh. In a world that feels like it's on crack, Tink doesn't have any. He feels super floaty and his recovery is stupid because of how high Up-B goes without ASL.

Either way, he builds damage well and I think he has the best projectile game in the game. No one can lay the spam on as hard as he does. His strings and combos are also very solid. I don't think I'd call Toon Link bad by any stretch of the meaning. He isn't top 10 material, but I think he is still viable and very solid middle bracket.

I don't know, I just think Toon Link is a good character, he just feels too vBrawl to me to really be interesting. Snake is something totally new in Brawl which is why I don't mind that he plays the same, but I just find Toon Link to be really really boring. Would Toon Link mains be interested in making his gravity higher?

 

[VaKe]

Bug

Pal Version:
When the assist Trophy Sonic appears, who normally slows u down, im not slowed, but i can jump nearly as double as high as before.

 

[JCaesar]

I agree that at the very least, TL should get a higher angle on his bair and a lower angle on his fair.

 

[Almas]

I just moved a lot of posts to the Competitive Play Discussion.

This is not a discussion thread. Please read the OP before posting.

This is not a troubleshooting thread, either. There are atleast two of them around. In fact, Jenk, I already gave you a possible solution to your problem in the FAQ thread.

If you have an issue with the balance of the game itself, or if you have found a bug you can reproduce yourself, post it here. Don't talk about other people's inputs. Don't announce if someone is wrong.

Thank you.

VaKe, we're aware of the issue, and it's present in NTSC Brawl+, too. It's a side effect of the physics changes we use, and as such it's not really a high priority to fix, especially as we don't recommend item usage. Nevertheless, I've updated the OP to avoid confusion.

I'll see about using Shanus' hosting prowess to get another link to the files - the site seems to have been down a lot recently. On the plus side, the number of downloads is surprisingly large.

I'd love the Brawl+ community a lot more if you would read the friggen OP before posting, though.

 

[Wingflier]

Just wanted to point out that the download links are broken again.

Hope I didn't break protocol or something.

Wing

 

[shanus]

I just added up a mirror for the full package download on here:
http://web.me.com/shane_mulligan/Brawl+_Nightly_Builds/Welcome.html

 

[Smith]

Still doesn't work for me Shanus...The mirror that is.

 

[shanus]

The very first link. CLick on it. Not the one that says mirror, the first link which goes to a web.me thing.

 

[KaizoHax]

Brawlplusery Official Codeset - Version 4.1B

"We'd like everyone's opinion on this codeset. While we are trying to produce the most competitive set available, this is still a community project" -Almas

So I've decided to take Almas advice and provide some personal feed back.

-just some fixes/changes that I think can improve b+ gameplay and make more competetive.
-I recently believed that b+ was still too slow, but I came to realize it actually has heavier gravity and faster fast-falling than melee now O__O"
-So why does it still feel slower and less exiting?...here are some things that might help...

*Not saying that all this should be added but I just want to know what you guys think about it


-Feed Back-

1. fix air momentum (still loosing too much speed/momentum when jumping outta dash run)

2. fix sliding (due to momentum) *especially Falcon's short hop.....YESZ! [X] Work In Progress

3. some jumps are too high (for example Toons SH/ would benefit his zair and neutral if it was shorter) / *I would leave second jump as is and reduce SH and Full Hop on some characters

4. ledges still have too much suction (limits alot of off-stage game/can't ledge hop to spike most of the time because the ledge sucks them in and gives them invincibility frames too early)

5. too many invincibilty frames (mostly on ledge) *I would shave off frames [X] improved

6. figure out a way for better tech-chasing (i've been trying to figure it out/ melee has longer tech-rolls...if that helps)

7. Alot of throws have way too much knock back (not all but alot)/ and some need more KBG (ex. peach's F-throw)

8. better camera (more zoomed out/ faster pace) *more melee like

9. Less knock back when hitting against the side or underside of the stage (kills way too easy in my opinion, even at low percentages) *would improve off-stage game

10. fix/work on scar jumping (plus some stages don't allow you to wall jump when you are too low) *good example is warioware

11. Either remove foot stooling or make it another button other than jump (this way you don't get foot stooled and killed by accident, which is almost 90% of time) *would make it more skillful

12. *BIG REQUEST - fast falling b specials (not all just some like: fireballs, lasers, thunder ect.) *I would also reduce endlag a bit for better usage


-Less Important- *IDEAS

1. give falcon a bigger Dair hitbox....YESZ! [X] DONE

2. completely rework marth's side b (I would slow it down and fix the KB) *and his sword dance spike would be nice

3. also make marth's sourspot on his dair more useful...(right now it basically saves the enemy because of the ridiculous angle and KB it has)

4. Jiggz rest is a bit too strong @_@.....imo

5. work on bowsers up b momentum (for easier edgehog from on stage)

6. rework ganons up-tilt (it is very useless at the moment, it is slower than warlock punch and deals less damage(27%)/ *I would speed it up but give it less damage, maybe around 19-21%

7. Another pretty useless move is Ness' pk flash....*just an idea/ let the move execute even if ness gets hit

8. Remove ssz's 3 armor pieces when match starts (she already is a very good character)

9. Let DDD pick up his waddledees and not automatically throw them

10. No invincibility after respawn from death (or just enough so you can get to the floor without being hit)

11. reduce transformation time for zelda/sheik

12. Remove auto jabs... *If anything atleast make them have a limit

*That's it for now....

comment on what you think can possibly be good for B+/ remember that most of these are opinion based so don't take it up the butt ^_^

 

[Mattnumbers]

10. No invincibility after respawn from death (or just enough so you can get to the floor without being hit)

Please do not do this, It would really hurt Olimar, as he needs that time to pick some pikmin.

 

[Vilo]

I have a question and i'm wondering if its been discussed and if there will be something to fix it or if it is even fixable.

Online choosing just a single pokemon just chooses that pokemon as starter and you are actually playing PT. This just seems weird to me because it works fine offline (AWESOME) but won't work online.

Is this known and is there a desire to address it or is it really just like on the back burner and at some point will be dealt with?

Also I think Link could use some more horizontal movement with his up-b, he still suffers from having terrible recovery and being heavy. A bit more horizontal would help a lot I think without making him un-Link-like. Otherwise he is fantastic to play with.

Just want to add that overall I think Brawl+ is fantastic and that i'm so glad console games are catching up with PC games as far as community control over the product. Anytime the community is able to take something and make it their own it is better for EVERYONE. I don't know why there is such an US OR THEM attitude towards Brawl+ and I find the people who have a problem with it have never actually played it.

Everyone who plays Brawl+ seems to say it is a superior experience. More characters are viable, more moves are viable; the game is tuned for 1v1 fights without items and for those of us who like that style, it is a godsend.

Normal Brawl with items and all that jazz is cool too it just isn't the same experience and i'm glad we now have the ability to CHOOSE what kind of experience we want instead of being stuck with only one.

Incredible work guys.

 

[leafgreen386]

I have a question and i'm wondering if its been discussed and if there will be something to fix it or if it is even fixable.

Online choosing just a single pokemon just chooses that pokemon as starter and you are actually playing PT. This just seems weird to me because it works fine offline (AWESOME) but won't work online.

Is this known and is there a desire to address it or is it really just like on the back burner and at some point will be dealt with?

"We'd like everyone's opinion on this codeset. While we are trying to produce the most competitive set available, this is still a community project" -Almas

So I've decided to take Almas advice and provide some personal feed back.

-just some fixes/changes that I think can improve b+ gameplay and make more competetive.
-I recently believed that b+ was still too slow, but I came to realize it actually has heavier gravity and faster fast-falling than melee now O__O"
-So why does it still feel slower and less exiting?...here are some things that might help...

*Not saying that all this should be added but I just want to know what you guys think about it


-Feed Back-

1. fix air momentum (still loosing too much speed/momentum when jumping outta dash run)

We're probably not changing jumping momentum anytime soon. We've had this setting for a while now, and while certain individual characters may receive a momentum boost, don't count on a universal increase anytime soon.

2. fix sliding (due to momentum) *especially Falcon's short hop.....YESZ! [X] Work In Progress

As you noted, we're working on getting character specific friction working.

3. some jumps are too high (for example Toons SH/ would benefit his zair and neutral if it was shorter) / *I would leave second jump as is and reduce SH and Full Hop on some characters

Character physics are not set in stone. We're going to be taking another look at tweaking character physics sometime in the near future to better suit their playstyle.

4. ledges still have too much suction (limits alot of off-stage game/can't ledge hop to spike most of the time because the ledge sucks them in and gives them invincibility frames too early)

Don't count on this happening anytime soon. We've talked about it before, and although it was somewhat split, there were definitely more of us against it than for it. I'm not going to be naming any names. Perhaps this topic will come up again at some point in the future.

5. too many invincibilty frames (mostly on ledge) *I would shave off frames [X] improved

As you noted, we've fixed this.

6. figure out a way for better tech-chasing (i've been trying to figure it out/ melee has longer tech-rolls...if that helps)

We've talked about teching a few times. Techrolls were sped up 1.3x universally long ago due to the game speed being generally increased (not standing techs, though...), although we keep coming back to it possibly being too fast for some characters. We'll probably be looking more into fixing teching sometime soon.

7. Alot of throws have way too much knock back (not all but alot)/ and some need more KBG (ex. peach's F-throw)

Throws cannot be modified currently. If they were modifiable, we would have made some throw changes long ago.

8. better camera (more zoomed out/ faster pace) *more melee like

We've already looked into doing this. Unfortunately, the code seems to occasionally cause a rather loud "rocket" sound at random times. I'm not sure actually if the code is on by default or not in the current nightly build, but you should try it out. If you still think the camera needs work after that, let us know.

9. Less knock back when hitting against the side or underside of the stage (kills way too easy in my opinion, even at low percentages) *would improve off-stage game

Stagespikes have always had large kb. It's techable, so I see nothing wrong with it. Don't expect this to be changed.

10. fix/work on scar jumping (plus some stages don't allow you to wall jump when you are too low) *good example is warioware

This is known, and is something we'd like to fix. It's currently not very high priority, but it is on the list.

11. Either remove foot stooling or make it another button other than jump (this way you don't get foot stooled and killed by accident, which is almost 90% of time) *would make it more skillful

I've brought this up before, myself, actually. My proposal was to only be able to footstool if you were ff'ing, to help eliminate accidental footstools. We haven't talked much about it, though.

12. *BIG REQUEST - fast falling b specials (not all just some like: fireballs, lasers, thunder ect.) *I would also reduce endlag a bit for better usage

It's possible. We haven't talked about FF specials in a while.

-Less Important- *IDEAS

1. give falcon a bigger Dair hitbox....YESZ! [X] DONE

Well, actually we just replaced the sourspot hitbox with a nipple spike.

2. completely rework marth's side b (I would slow it down and fix the KB) *and his sword dance spike would be nice

Its damage and kill potential has already been mega-nerfed. It doesn't need to be nerfed more.

3. also make marth's sourspot on his dair more useful...(right now it basically saves the enemy because of the ridiculous angle and KB it has)

Marth is already one of the best characters in the game. He doesn't need this buff by any means.

4. Jiggz rest is a bit too strong @_@.....imo

Don't get hit. If you're going to die from it regardless of which way you DI, DI toward the side instead of the top so you can hit jiggs when you return before she wakes up.

5. work on bowsers up b momentum (for easier edgehog from on stage)

I thought we already did something that enabled him to fortress hog again? I don't remember it too well, but I remember that being brought up as a result of another one of our changes.

6. rework ganons up-tilt (it is very useless at the moment, it is slower than warlock punch and deals less damage(27%)/ *I would speed it up but give it less damage, maybe around 19-21%

It's been brought up many times before. We're probably not going to do it, but there's still a possibility there.

7. Another pretty useless move is Ness' pk flash....*just an idea/ let the move execute even if ness gets hit

We've talked about ways to buff ness's PK flash before, although it would require another code and we're still not even sure if it's the route we would like to go.

8. Remove ssz's 3 armor pieces when match starts (she already is a very good character)

Er... no. It's a part of her character. If anything, the armour pieces may be toned down a bit, but there is no way we're going to flat out remove them.

9. Let DDD pick up his waddledees and not automatically throw them

We wanted to make it so that DDD wouldn't pick up and throw his minions if he used the A button to perform an attack, but I think we had some trouble getting it to work. It's something we should probably look into again, though.

10. No invincibility after respawn from death (or just enough so you can get to the floor without being hit)

I've thought about this before, but... no. It's not that hard to stall out the opponent's invincibility and some characters use it to safely perform some sort of utility move after being KO'd (the most notable of which being olimar, although other characters that can transform or have a charging move also make use of this). The return invincibility isn't broken, and by this point has become a part of smash.

11. reduce transformation time for zelda/sheik

It'd be nice, but the problem is the game has to load the other model from scratch whenever you transform. The actual animation is very short. If it was possible to pre-load the model data into memory when the match starts like in melee, then the transform time would be drastically reduced and we would actually end up having to lengthen the transform animation. Unfortunately, this has been looked into before, and it appears to be impossible, due to the amount of room brawl sets aside for character data.

12. Remove auto jabs... *If anything atleast make them have a limit

*That's it for now....

comment on what you think can possibly be good for B+/ remember that most of these are opinion based so don't take it up the butt ^_^

We've tried removing auto jabs before... it greatly screwed up certain rapid jabs to the point of being unfixable (notably, pikachu's) and was overall just an unnecessary change that didn't really serve to do anything.

 

[shanus]

just to elaborate:

Bowser can fortress hog now, it can be done at multiple times during the upB as long you have a horizontal momentum shift

DDD waddle dee. our attempted fix made it so he couldnt pick up other items as they just count as a classic item. yeah, didnt work out so hot. esp. vs diddy

Camera codes we def want to fix, its on the to do list.

 

[peachfvl]

shanus can you add the .txt file in your site?

 

[Cruncher93]

There`s something silly with the PAL-Codeset:
After some time of Online-playing, the Chars start to trip really often and if you jump and land, they sit just like if they tripped...
When I go Offline, it stays, but sometimes it goes after a few seconds.
This happened to me and 2 others.

 

[Deleted member]

There`s something silly with the PAL-Codeset:
After some time of Online-playing, the Chars start to trip really often and if you jump and land, they sit just like if they tripped...
When I go Offline, it stays, but sometimes it goes after a few seconds.
This happened to me and 2 others.

Yes, it's known. it is caused by the no-swap on death code. (actually samus tiggers it)
since I haven't ported the CSS codes yet, it is either not playing samus (since she causes it) or swapping when you die as pokemon. I'll try to put up a fix sometime in the near future

 

[DrCrawford]

i still think some of snakes hitboxes need to be fixed, particularly his ^tilt (which gives you insane amounts of damage and doesn't even physically touch you, and his aerial dropkick (which can easily kill you, even if he hits you with his head)

other than that, i think the game is pretty much solid

 

[GHNeko]

i still think some of snakes hitboxes need to be fixed, particularly his ^tilt (which gives you insane amounts of damage and doesn't even physically touch you, and his aerial dropkick (which can easily kill you, even if he hits you with his head)

other than that, i think the game is pretty much solid

His tilts are fine. They are his staple moves.

And his bair? Really? There are better moves. :V

 

[GenG]

There are still problems with Samus causing sudden tripping on all characters in the PAL codeset. Is there a known fix for this?

 

[sagemoon]

So I've been playing with my friend for a bit and I have come up with a couple slight balance suggestions with pit and mario.

Pit:
Nerfs:
-dtilt needs less knockback (for the meteor smash), it kills people at like 11%.
Buffs
-Pit should be able to up b again after he is hit out of it. Because of how the ledges work pit just kinda sits there waiting to be gimped (dont get me wrong, i love the ledges)

Mario
Nerfs:
-Downthrow needs less hitstun
Buffs:
-Change gravity or short hop height on mario so that he hits the ground faster or slower. (Fear told me the height of the jump is at an awkward place where he can almost do 2 upairs but the 2nd one doesnt quite come out, and it gets in the way for combos)
-dtilt more hitstun
-improve fluud to compensate for gravity.

Edited with changes.

2nd edit: If theres a way, maybe switch pits up b so that if you press airdodge during the wings mode, it puts pit into fall mode. This way pit can still catch onto the ledge without autosnapping onto it. And pits recovery wont be OP. I think its a good idea to balance it out.

 

[leafgreen386]

I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is not for idle chitchat, and you should only be posting here if you are coming with direct feedback.

Any reply that is not does not fall into one of the four following categories is spam and will be punished appropriately:

* Structured, informed issues with balance in the current version, preferably with suggestions for change to fix said problems
* Official responses from WBR Members to said feedback
* Brawl+ Tournament Results Listings (With full details such as Characters, Players, Date and Entry Fee)
* Reports for undocumented bugs within the game itself