& Brawl+: The Montréal Weekly Poutine Thread...With More Sauce!

[Kev!]

yay for jiggs!!!!!!!! lets double with that, and see what happens.

... Or not.

1$ money match best of 3, next time you come Maritlage! You play Jiggs, I'll play ONElimar.

Edit: Lol, didn't even noticed Bento's epic post at first XD

 

[Fizzi]

Zaf, there's no need for you to lecture people about how to get better. Brawl is not deep enough as far as technical skill goes for people to get better easilly. Knowing matchups is important but that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many factors involved in being able to consistently win at brawl and a lot of it has more to do with talent than anything, so it becomes extremely hard to improve.

Coming up with new strategies is all well and good, but the only time that is important is if you can use them to successfully brick wall your opponent (Thad). If your opponent is a proactive player, and finds ways around your brick walls, you're gonna lose. Your mentality during a match is of paramount importance. In brawl you have to be able to predict your opponents movements down to minute details. You also have to prevent them from predicting you. For some people doing this makes it very hard for them to actually physically play well. Like I said, it really has so much to do with what state of mind you are in. Some people are better at it then others, that's talent. Other people have a really hard time trying to learn and some just cant.

Mew2King isn't the best player because he has "strategies". He's the best player cause he reads you like a book, knows exactly what and how to punish, and you can't read him. Personally I don't think I'm talented enough to be even near him (but then again, this may be partly why I lose). At the last weekly, for some reason, before my match with Kirt, I was afraid I'd lose to him. I don't know why I was, I never had been before. Stuff like that really shows in the results.

I guess I'm just upset because when some people don't do well at one weekly. People that didn't/don't go come to weeklies come in this thread saying indirectly: you guys suck and aren't improving. Well all I have to say to you is **** you, maybe you're not as good as you think you are and maybe you're not improving as much as you think you are.

 

[Mystic Viper]

stop getting dsmash'd by peach

lesson 1 done



Thad wins because, everyone at the weeklies just plays each other.
When you throw something new into the mix, chaos is born. That chaos is Thad.
No one camps and is as defensive as Thad. You are all tooo used to each other.
So when he camprapes you, you don't know what to do.
I guess the reason i stopped going so much was because i wasn't getting better as
fast as i wanted to. I just researched more and practiced.
Like i spend all of my work shifts reading things on swf, watching vids and replays.
I then test them on my wii at work or in matches with l2w.
I'm not saying people at the weeklies don't practice outside of the weeklies or read/analyze match ups. (not to boast) but i think i have the most knowledge of MUS and overall brawl knowledge, simply because of the time I've spent reading.
Everything chet knows, is because of me.
Chet learned to fight MK because of me. We practiced and he learned mks weaknesses. We don't care about winning when we practice, we just want to know what works and how to best apply it.
Rather then study ats, everyone should be studying MUS. I preform 0 ats with my chars. Once you learn how to fight a character with yours, you can practice this at the weeklies. You should beat people more often, then they will learn to fight you and everyone levels up.
It might be hard, but when at the weeklies try sitting on a set up with someone, turning off all stocks and put on infinite time and just practice. Stop caring about who wins, and focus more on getting better.
The weeklies have become more commercial with the stream and the tourneys (and different kinds one tourneys held ( I.E iron man). )
IMO, there should be a break from tourneys and people should focus on practicing more.
:::Elef never goes to the weeklies and he could probably beat all of you =/
he sits in his dirty basement, hungry, and just practices brawl.
i learned to gimp yoshi and i was devouring him.
he just started going snake more.
when i was away in phili attending cot4, elef was practicing some things with yoshi
and when i came back he used his new tactics and the matches were closer and he was taking matches off me.
and all he did was think up some ideas, read the boards and apply his ideas.
he knows how to punish mk now, and he uses this to his advantage.
every char has a weakness, it just needs to be exploited
the same way chet and elef are exploiting mk and other chars.

Thank you Zaf for making a wall of text of the exact same thing I said in two lines XD

I wanna be the very best
Like noone ever was
To beat them is my real test
To outplay them is my cause
I will travel across the land
Searching far and wide
Each player to understand
The power that's inside

Chorus
Barwl!
It's you and me
I know it's my destiny
Barwl!
Ooh, you're my best challenge
In a world we must conquer
Barwl!
Our hearts so true
Our courage will pull us through
You teach me and I'll teach you
Barwl
Gotta beat 'em all!

Every challenge along the way
With courage I will face
I will battle every day
To claim my rightful place
Come with me, the time is right
There's no better team
Arm in arm we'll win the fight
It's always been our dream​

WOAH DUDE!! Every time I leave these forums these days I have this song in my head. Maybe that's what's been helping me improve .

Either way, I'm happy I'm not the only one who thought about it.

-We pay to play;
-We don't have enough TVs for everyone to play 1v1s;
-We almost always have some kind of event/tournament that prevents us from reaching out of the box and testing new things. In other words, we always end up noticing our mistakes after its too late and are rarely given the chance to correct/work on them until next week... At which point you might have forgotten about whatever resolution you had.
-nobody will buy my ps3 :[

I know I've learned more by watching vids and that one week I got to play CPUs with C'let's wii than I prolly ever did @ weeklies. Limited assets is the main reason for that imo. Mtl needs more clet fests and non-secret fests.

We know something you don't know
And if we don't share then we don't grow J5 ftw

Secret fests are getting gayer and gayer. Btw, how much for your ps3?

if we're not doing a tournie, i think we could at least squeeze in a crew battle? (:

Crew Battle FTW. Concurred.

Solution, be a warrior.

1. Do warrior bull****.
2. Spam moves.
3. Win.

LOL

Sounds good.



Fixed.

you guys forgot the 3.???? step: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Profit

Zaf, there's no need for you to lecture people about how to get better. Brawl is not deep enough as far as technical skill goes for people to get better easilly. Knowing matchups is important but that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many factors involved in being able to consistently win at brawl and a lot of it has more to do with talent than anything, so it becomes extremely hard to improve.

Coming up with new strategies is all well and good, but the only time that is important is if you can use them to successfully brick wall your opponent (Thad). If your opponent is a proactive player, and finds ways around your brick walls, you're gonna lose. Your mentality during a match is of paramount importance. In brawl you have to be able to predict your opponents movements down to minute details. You also have to prevent them from predicting you. For some people doing this makes it very hard for them to actually physically play well. Like I said, it really has so much to do with what state of mind you are in. Some people are better at it then others, that's talent. Other people have a really hard time trying to learn and some just cant.

Mew2King isn't the best player because he has "strategies". He's the best player cause he reads you like a book, knows exactly what and how to punish, and you can't read him. Personally I don't think I'm talented enough to be even near him (but then again, this may be partly why I lose). At the last weekly, for some reason, before my match with Kirt, I was afraid I'd lose to him. I don't know why I was, I never had been before. Stuff like that really shows in the results.

I guess I'm just upset because when some people don't do well at one weekly. People that didn't/don't go come to weeklies come in this thread saying indirectly: you guys suck and aren't improving. Well all I have to say to you is **** you, maybe you're not as good as you think you are and maybe you're not improving as much as you think you are.

I agree with what Zaf has said Fizzi and so has many people. I think what he says he says it for the best. I do agree with your last paragraph though about people saying that others suck or aren't improving and whatnot. Those people, can go suck a lemon.

 

[swordgard]

Fizzi, maybe we are not indeed, but have you considered that maybe we are improving?

Seriously, it IS about finding new common patterns, new strategies, lately it seems like my minds totally unlocked about those things. It is also about reading people, but reading people wont just happen by magic, nor will it ever happen if you try to do the same thing over and over, then say its hard to improve.

EDIT: Im not saying any of you guys sucks, please understand this. Im saying that what you are doing is counterproductive and very slow, not that you do not improve at all which is different.

 

[BentoBox]

^ no posting for you until you're dong writing your guide k

@kirt: 400; 2 psn games+backwards. comp

 

[swordgard]

Done , well all what is left are the appendixes which is supposed to be done by Niko_K :S

 

[zaf]

im not posting to be negative
i was merely posting to help
no one is doing what i said
the weeklies are all tournies
and are more for fun, then to get better
so when people play for leisure
so of course they will not get as good,
as people at elitist fests
im not trying to be biased or an *******
but the weekly i came to with kirt
he was at my house for like 2-3 hours before
and i asked him if he got better practice with me
or all his time at the weeklies
and he said with me
all i did was point out his mistakes
and teach him the mk MU

for those of you who keep asking me MU = match up

 

[Kev!]

Done , well all what is left are the appendixes which is supposed to be done by Niko_K :S

o_O

Good job, checking it out later

 

[Mystic Viper]

Hey Guys
we should stop all
this fighting and listen to what
each of us has to say. Because
everything everyone is
saying has a certain truth to
it. What Zaf says is true however,
and that I think we need to change
the style at which we play in order
to get better, and notice
our mistakes more often. By the way,
in case you haven't noticed, this is
a shameless excuse of a post to
make fun of Zaf's posting skills.

 

[Fizzi]

Let me tell you what mainly upset me...

I guess the reason i stopped going so much was because i wasn't getting better as fast as i wanted to.

This implies that what you are doing now is a better way of improving. Which means that you believe you have improved faster than everyone that goes to the weeklies. If you believe this to be the case, why don't you prove it to yourself and to other people? Or if you don't want to prove it you can just put it to the test. Come to one of the $2 tourneys and you should be able to win right? Let's see it.

The second thing I'd like to point out, is that I personally believe you put too much emphasis on friendlies. You will often point out when you went even with someone in friendlies. But seeing as the game is not skill vs skill determines victor, friendlies do not mean *anything*. While you apply the same basic concepts as far as reading your opponent in friendlies and in tournament matches, your ability to actually apply them effectively changes drastically depending on things like pressure, mental condition at the time, etc. I agree that friendlies are a good way to learn, but to win a tournament, I feel that your friendly experience will do little to nothing if you don't have as Kage would say, the warrior spirit.

Anyways, that's just my feeling about it. I can understand how people can feel differently about this. I just couldn't help getting slightly upset.

 

[zaf]

Hey Guys
we should stop all
this fighting and listen to what
each of us has to say. Because
everything everyone is
saying has a certain truth to
it. What Zaf says is true however,
and that I think we need to change
the style at which we play in order
to get better, and notice
our mistakes more often. By the way,
in case you haven't noticed, this is
a shameless excuse of a post to
make fun of Zaf's posting skills.

kirts posting skills > zafs posting skills
kirts brawl skills <<< zafs posting skills

 

[Mystic Viper]

Let me tell you what mainly upset me...



This implies that what you are doing now is a better way of improving. Which means that you believe you have improved faster than everyone that goes to the weeklies. If you believe this to be the case, why don't you prove it to yourself and to other people? Or if you don't want to prove it you can just put it to the test. Come to one of the $2 tourneys and you should be able to win right? Let's see it.

The second thing I'd like to point out, is that I personally believe you put too much emphasis on friendlies. You will often point out when you went even with someone in friendlies. But seeing as the game is not skill vs skill determines victor, friendlies do not mean *anything*. While you apply the same basic concepts as far as reading your opponent in friendlies and in tournament matches, your ability to actually apply them effectively changes drastically depending on things like pressure, mental condition at the time, etc. I agree that friendlies are a good way to learn, but to win a tournament, I feel that your friendly experience will do little to nothing if you don't have as Kage would say, the warrior spirit.

Anyways, that's just my feeling about it. I can understand how people can feel differently about this. I just couldn't help getting slightly upset.

Heh, I wish Agony would understand this concept...

kirts posting skills > zafs posting skills
kirts brawl skills <<< zafs posting skills

 

[Fizzi]

Also to add to that, for the reasons stated above. This is why I think having frequent tourneys actually IS good practice. Because it constantly puts you in the situation where you gotta compete. Hopefully people can get used to that and it'll help them compete at bigger events. The improvement you speak of is also important but I think that is better suited for smashfests and such, the weeklies are a good place to have tournaments.

 

[zaf]

what i have been doing is much better than the weeklies, i wont deny that.
its true. look at me back then and look at me now
the emphasis on friendlies, can be explained
at the elitist fests, when i played holy,
we were not just playing for fun
we were playing to get better
i found a way around his style and implemented it
which is why we were going even
we were playing sets against each other

ive beaten boss in a set, you watched it.
i also beat chu and azen in doubles when chet died by myself.
lets see someone else from mtl do that

 

[Fizzi]

what i have been doing is much better than the weeklies, i wont deny that.
its true. look at me back then and look at me now
the emphasis on friendlies, can be explained
at the elitist fests, when i played holy,
we were not just playing for fun
we were playing to get better
i found a way around his style and implemented it
which is why we were going even
we were playing sets against each other

ive beaten boss in a set, you watched it.
i also beat chu and azen in doubles when chet died by myself.
lets see someone else from mtl do that

And you don't place very well in tournaments... So your point is? (Not that I do, I'm just saying stfu until you have some real accomplishments) Come win a $2 tournament. If you do that I'll let you talk (Even though winning a $2 tourney is hardly deserving of the talking you do anyways).

 

[BentoBox]

Tourneys are only helpful if you feel like you've improved or learned something that could improve your game drastically during the week separating the weeklies. If that is not the case, you are basically fending for yourself at the very same skill level week after week, because there's money on the line; you are hence less willing to take risks and explore different options. This kinda goes along with zaf said~ we're often playing for the wrong reasons, or rather, we are not using an efficient approach to improving our skills.

 

[zaf]

And you don't place very well in tournaments... So your point is? (Not that I do, I'm just saying stfu until you have some real accomplishments) Come win a $2 tournament. If you do that I'll let you talk (Even though winning a $2 tourney is hardly deserving of the talking you do anyways).

sorry i didnt know beating chu and azen was an accomplishment
everyone must be doing it too

 

[filauc]

And you don't place very well in tournaments... So your point is? (Not that I do, I'm just saying stfu until you have some real accomplishments) Come win a $2 tournament. If you do that I'll let you talk (Even though winning a $2 tourney is hardly deserving of the talking you do anyways).

Fizzi
is
the
man

 

[Mystic Viper]

Also to add to that, for the reasons stated above. This is why I think having frequent tourneys actually IS good practice. Because it constantly puts you in the situation where you gotta compete. Hopefully people can get used to that and it'll help them compete at bigger events. The improvement you speak of is also important but I think that is better suited for smashfests and such, the weeklies are a good place to have tournaments.

Don't you think that maybe having plenty of tourneys like we do actually takes away from the seriousness of it? How better can I put this other then with Sega's now crappy mascot. Back in the day when there were little Sonic games every couple of years, they were actually worthwhile and revered. Now, their spewed every second week and have lost their value and charm.

what i have been doing is much better than the weeklies, i wont deny that.
its true. look at me back then and look at me now
the emphasis on friendlies, can be explained
at the elitist fests, when i played holy,
we were not just playing for fun
we were playing to get better
i found a way around his style and implemented it
which is why we were going even
we were playing sets against each other

ive beaten boss in a set, you watched it.
i also beat chu and azen in doubles when chet died by myself.
lets see someone else from mtl do that

Name drop moar pl0x.

Oh yeah, my posting skills wins again.

 

[Mystic Viper]

Tourneys are only helpful if you feel like you've improved or learned something that could improve your game drastically during the week separating the weeklies. If that is not the case, you are basically fending for yourself at the very same skill level week after week, because there's money on the line; you are hence less willing to take risks and explore different options. This kinda goes along with zaf said~ we're often playing for the wrong reasons, or rather, we are not using an efficient approach to improving our skills.

Bento for president.

 

[Fizzi]

Don't you think that maybe having plenty of tourneys like we do actually takes away from the seriousness of it? How better can I put this other then with Sega's now crappy mascot.

I thought about this as well. Obviously it's not a perfect system, but bringing in tourneys where money is on the line does recreate the effect. And if doing it can manage to take the seriousness away from a bigger tournament, even by a little, then it was a success.

 

[Fizzi]

sorry i didnt know beating chu and azen was an accomplishment
everyone must be doing it too

I think I just went through saying I don't give a **** what you do in friendlies. Those players' mental games ***** yours. You'd have 0 chance of doing that in a tournament.

EDIT: Sorry about double post. I don't know why I'm taking this stuff seriously it's really rare for me to do this. Maybe it's lack of sleep.

 

[zaf]

Tourneys are only helpful if you feel like you've improved or learned something that could improve your game drastically during the week separating the weeklies. If that is not the case, you are basically fending for yourself at the very same skill level week after week, because there's money on the line; you are hence less willing to take risks and explore different options. This kinda goes along with zaf said~ we're often playing for the wrong reasons, or rather, we are not using an efficient approach to improving our skills.

all i did with my posts
was give some ideas on how to improve
tournies at the weeklies are too commercial
what bento said was right
nfl, nhl and nba teams practise all year round
and then they spend a few weeks/months competing
then they go back to practise

 

[filauc]

Fizzi for prez.

 

[Mystic Viper]

I get the feeling Joel is gonna be angry were spamming the Weeklies thread, rofl.

 

[zaf]

I thought about this as well. Obviously it's not a perfect system, but bringing in tourneys where money is on the line does recreate the effect. And if doing it can manage to take the seriousness away from a bigger tournament, even by a little, then it was a success.

there was like a tourney every week or every second week
sometimes the weeklies is the only place some players get to play
(i.e kirt, kr3wman and agony)
if they only get to play when there are tournies
there is no room for practise
so they do not improve and the cycle repeats

 

[Fizzi]

all i did with my posts
was give some ideas on how to improve
tournies at the weeklies are too commercial
what bento said was right
nfl, nhl and nba teams practise all year round
and then they spend a few weeks/months competing
then they go back to practise

Firstly, it's spelled "practice". Secondly, a lot of top athletes go see psychiatrists and stuff to improve their mental games, so practicing that for them is kinda redundant, it's already great. They are also usually naturally gifted with having the ability to just be plain good at winning, like Ally and M2k. Unfortunately a lot of us do not have the luxury of being able to afford help in mental training or having been born with it. So we gotta practice it. The best way to do that is play tournaments, money matches, pride matches, w/e.

Also what you are "doing" with your posts is showing off your air of undeserved superiority. You have no reason to talk as if you are better than everyone else until you prove it. Even if you DID prove it. You still shouldn't talk the way you do. Ally is better than us, he does not talk to people the way you do. Same with Chet.

EDIT: As per your last post. Krewman doesn't even go to weeklies. Secondly, if they can't find any other time to practice, that's not really our problem is it? And there are at least an hour and a half of friendlies before the tournament starts, and there are a bunch of friendlies when it is ending too. Why not practice then?

 

[kr3wman]

I might go more now.

I just have to leave early.

 

[BentoBox]

This thread is making me flaccid:[

*whips out pump*

 

[filauc]

I think
I'm gonna get
a I <3 Fizzi
shirt

I'm with you
all the way

 

[zaf]

Firstly, it's spelled "practice". Secondly, a lot of top athletes go see psychiatrists and stuff to improve their mental games, so practicing that for them is kinda redundant, it's already great. They are also usually naturally gifted with having the ability to just be plain good at winning, like Ally and M2k. Unfortunately a lot of us do not have the luxury of being able to afford help in mental training or having been born with it. So we gotta practice it. The best way to do that is play tournaments, money matches, pride matches, w/e.

Also what you are "doing" with your posts is showing off your air of undeserved superiority. You have no reason to talk as if you are better than everyone else until you prove it. Even if you DID prove it. You still shouldn't talk the way you do. Ally is better than us, he does not talk to people the way you do. Same with Chet.

EDIT: As per your last post. Krewman doesn't even go to weeklies. Secondly, if they can't find any other time to practice, that's not really our problem is it? And there are at least an hour and a half of friendlies before the tournament starts, and there are a bunch of friendlies when it is ending too. Why not practice then?

my posts in the past 2 days in no way are condescending
or meant to be
im not showing off, i have no need to
like i stated, people want to get better
i merely said stop doing useless tournies and practise MUS and
just simply practice
with some examples( i.e elef)
bento agrees to some extent ( not putting words in your mouth)

Spoiler

but i will put my **** there

last weekly i went to, kr3w was there.
Its not your decision on what happens at the weeklies
it is a community decision
you seem to keep imposing your idea of tournies and etc
when it seems more people are willing to take a break
im not imposing that everyone does what i say
i just mentioned it
and people liked the idea

 

[Fizzi]

my posts in the past 2 days in no way are condescending
or meant to be
im not showing off, i have no need to
like i stated, people want to get better
i merely said stop doing useless tournies and practise MUS and
just simply practice
with some examples( i.e elef)
bento agrees to some extent ( not putting words in your mouth)

Spoiler

but i will put my **** there

last weekly i went to, kr3w was there.
Its not your decision on what happens at the weeklies
it is a community decision
you seem to keep imposing your idea of tournies and etc
when it seems more people are willing to take a break
im not imposing that everyone does what i say
i just mentioned it
and people liked the idea

I was merely arguing the opposite. The way you wrote your post was "Guys I know what you are doing wrong. Firstly I'm going to tell you you are not improving at all. Secondly I'm going to tell you that I've been improving a lot more since I left you guys (with 0 proof mind you). Since I've figured everything out you guys should do this and then maybe one day you'll have a chance of being as good as I am".

It is a community decision, what the community decides is what I go with, I was arguing for the value of having frequent tournaments

Anyways I couldn't give a **** about that. All I'm saying is come to a $2 tournament, and win, then maybe people will give you some credit. Maybe then you'll know if you ACTUALLY have improved faster than everyone else instead of just GUESSING. Stop being a ***** and tell me you'll come.

 

[zaf]

you are telling me
that i will get more credit
winning a simple $2 mtl tourney
with like 16 people

over beating boss
over beating chu and azen by myself?

i think this is skewed
just a bit

 

[Fizzi]

you are telling me
that i will get more credit
winning a simple $2 mtl tourney
with like 16 people

over beating boss
over beating chu and azen by myself?

i think this is skewed
just a bit

So you can beat chu and azen by yourself but you can't come close to winning a tournament. I'm telling you friendlies don't mean ****. I'm telling you you haven't improved to a level that far above the people that come to the weeklies. And I'm trying to knock some sense into your **** head, why do you decline then? You should win easily right? You beat azen and chu 2 on 1 for christs sake.

 

[kr3wman]

Its so hard it ripped his pants. - Kirt.

 

[Mystic Viper]

So you can beat chu and azen by yourself but you can't come close to winning a tournament. I'm telling you friendlies don't mean ****. I'm telling you you haven't improved to a level that far above the people that come to the weeklies. And I'm trying to knock some sense into your **** head, why do you decline then? You should win easily right? You beat azen and chu 2 on 1 for christs sake.

How i seriously wished Agony understood this rofl.

But Fizzi, wouldn't this mean that my victory over you the other meant something in that case since it was in a tournament setting? Your thoughts?

 

[Fizzi]

How i seriously wished Agony understood this rofl.

But Fizzi, wouldn't this mean that my victory over you the other meant something in that case since it was in a tournament setting? Your thoughts?

Never said it didn't. Props to you. I'll get you next time.

 

[BentoBox]

It is possible to improve at the game without necessarily placing in the money. It's simply called being knowledgeable. As long as one seeks to improve and actively does so, then he does get better. You set your own limits; those imposed by the theoretical knowledge you've acquired over time (regarding every facet of the game). You then play to apply said knowledge to your game as efficiently as possible. Iirc, M2K studied Melee for months before getting any good. Once you get a good sense of what it is that you should do i.e. setting up brickwalls, DIing, exploit patterns/habits, the capabilities and limitations of your character... picking up your controller and and actively working on implementing all that you've gathered is the only step left to become good.

In the end, only yourself can gauge if you are truly improving or not. If you feel like you are currently doing all of the above, and gain that much more from weekly tournaments, more power to you.

 

[zaf]

It is possible to improve at the game without necessarily placing in the money. It's simply called being knowledgeable. As long as one seeks to improve and actively does so, then he does get better. You set your own limits; those imposed by the theoretical knowledge you've acquired over time (regarding every facet of the game). You then play to apply said knowledge to your game as efficiently as possible. Iirc, M2K studied Melee for months before getting any good. Once you get a good sense of what it is that you should do i.e. setting up brickwalls, DIing, exploit patterns/habits, the capabilities and limitations of your character... picking up your controller and and actively working on implementing all that you've gathered is the only step left to become good.

In the end, only yourself can gauge if you are truly improving or not. If you feel like you are currently doing all of the above, and gain that much more from weekly tournaments, more power to you.

how you come up with this poetry is beyond me

 

[cemo]

if you guys have a problem with the weeklies tournaments, try changing the time and price?

once a month is often enough that it's not repetitive, and no one here really cares much about 2 dollars. even if it's just raised up to ~5 dollars it will probably make a difference. (you can save up on that week where there's no tournie, you poor *******s)


the rest of this "argument" i'm staying out of, though. just thought i'd chip in~