Brawl Teminology Renaming Project: What to rename?

[Zankoku]

As I said before, DarkLinkX "discovered" the technique (even though people had noted it beforehand, but he was the first to make a big thread about it) and jokingly said it should be called the DLX Hit Cancel. For some reason it caught on anyway, likely because the Brawl General Discussion (I think this was before Brawl Tactical was created) was half full of idiots ready to pounce on any advanced techniques.

Kirk: It is indeed a boosted item throw. People are too used to the DAC term even though it's being improperly used over the Boost term, which admittedly has not seen any use since Melee (the term, not the technique).

 

[Kirk]

I thought as much.

I actually just can't believe Ike had an amazing Boost Item Toss all this time...

...sorry offtopic. xD

Go Dashing USmash! :D

Edit: Now he's arguing with me to use DACIT... xD

...

*leaves*

 

[Levitas]

lol, we haven't had a dissenting opinion since at least before the voting started.

Dashing usmash, while descriptive, doesn't abbreviate at all. Which is decent.

I support it until something better (shorter w/ same amount of meaning) comes along.

 

[SCOTU]

I'd go with Dashing usmash to go along w/ dash attack. Although Running usmash has merit, since it's not limited to a dash.

@ Levitas: not everything needs an abbreviation. It just needs to not be so long it's awkward, and "dashing usmash" isn't awkward, it's fine.

 

[Levitas]

I am aware of that. However, I'm expressing an opinion that shorter is better. I also expressed an opinion that while dashing usmash is fine, if something better comes along (example of what would make a name better in parenthesis) I would change my vote.

 

[Zankoku]

Shorter isn't always better. I had a professor who inexplicably abbreviated everything, so I'd have to ask about abbreviations for WIT (What Is This?), TOM (The Orange Mustang), and GOWAB (Go Out With A Bang), among other things. It was silly and unnecessary, and the only thing it was good for was pretty much forcing us to talk with him if we did anything wrong on our projects or something.

 

[Pierce7d]

All considering, I'm very much in agreement with Dashing UpSmash as the "Official Term" for it.

 

[Levitas]

Shorter isn't always better. I had a professor who inexplicably abbreviated everything, so I'd have to ask about abbreviations for WIT (What Is This?), TOM (The Orange Mustang), and GOWAB (Go Out With A Bang), among other things. It was silly and unnecessary, and the only thing it was good for was pretty much forcing us to talk with him if we did anything wrong on our projects or something.

That's because you lose meaning in an acronym. Still true.

 

[SCOTU]

Next Topic: Wavebouncing

Alternates?
B Boosting
B Bouncing
B Blasting (lol)

 

[Xiivi]

Wavewaving.

>_>
B Boosting is the best out of the options you presented. I don't really like any of them to be honest though.

 

[SCOTU]

i'm not particularly fond of any of them either. those are just the ones i came up with when i was following along w/ panda's podcast.

 

[MuBa]

B Bouncing sounds nice imo.

 

[Kirk]

From "The Comprehensive Guide to AT's, Discoveries, and Glitches:"

- B-Move Technique: Recoil Special (a.k.a. Wave-bouncing, B-sticking)
How to Perform: In the air, B-Reverse a Turnaround B or a backwards side-B. This is more easily accomplished by pushing the joystick forward and the C-stick backwards with the C-stick set to Specials.
Effect: Character's horizontal momentum is completely canceled/reversed, character stays facing the same direction, B-move executes. Can be used to space projectile approaches.

We're talking about this...yes?

'Recoil' sounds...neat...

 

[SCOTU]

B Boosting
B Bouncing
Recoil Special

 

[MuBa]

Or how about Special Recoil >_>

 

[Vyse]

Bounce + Recoil = Rebound
Via my ******** logic and with the help of thesaurus.com I propose:

Rebound Special

Also to be clear:

Hyphen Smash:
Proposed new term = Dashing USmash

DACUS:
Proposed new term = Boost Usmash

DLXHC:
Proposed new term = DAHCUS/DACUS

Dragonic Reverse:
Proposed new term = Double Jump Land Cancel (?)

 

[SCOTU]

Hyphen smashing has been replaced by Dashing Usmash
DACUS > Boost Usmash
DLX > DACUS

Dragonic reverse will be taken care of after wavebouncing

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Hm... what about simply "bouncing?" Or perhaps "Air Bouncing?"

Wavebouncing is a difficult term to name. When I actually discovered it (two days before the guy "rediscovered" it and gave it that horrid name) I asked the public to think up a name, because I couldn't think of any.

 

[Vyse]

Bouncing sounds easiest to use in a sentence.

 

[SCOTU]

i don't think bouncing works, since that sounds to much like an irl mechanic that can be applied to smash: i.e. he bounced off the platform would be ambiguous. let's just go with B Bouncing, since it's like wave bouncing, but has 'B' instead of "wave" which describes what is used to get the bounce, and doesn't infringe on the melee "wave" naming scheme.

 

[Vyse]

"He B Bounced Wolf's laser"
Sounds alright to me.

 

[Steel]

"He double B'd Wolf's laser."

"He BB'd Wolf's laser."

make it happen

 

[MuBa]

I thought "Wave Bouncing" was a term specifically used for Forward B moves o_O;

Anyways I think B-Bounce sounds like it makes the most sense.

 

[Levitas]

Honestly, I think recoil is a really accurate term for what's going on with the momentum.

 

[Kirk]

re⋅coil[v. ri-koil; n. ree-koil, ri-koil]

–verb (used without object)
1. to draw back; start or shrink back, as in alarm, horror, or disgust.
2. to spring or fly back, as in consequence of force of impact or the force of the discharge, as a firearm.
3. to spring or come back; react (usually fol. by on or upon): Plots frequently recoil upon the plotters.
4. Physics. (of an atom, a nucleus, or a particle) to undergo a change in momentum as a result either of a collision with an atom, a nucleus, or a particle or of the emission of a particle.

–noun
5. an act of recoiling.
6. the distance through which a weapon moves backward after discharging.

/copypasta

 

[leafgreen386]

I'm going to have to heavily disagree with calling the DLXHC the DACUS, when people have already been referring to Boost Smashing as DACUS. It just creates unnecessary confusion. Technically, "DACUS" describes both techniques, and it's just that one requires you actually connect with the attack. Although there is nothing wrong with the term "Boost Smashing," I do think there is something wrong with giving a technique's former name to another related technique will only lead to trouble. Either call them DACUS and DAHCUS, or call them Boost Smashing and <something else>, but not Boost Smashing and DACUS.

I like the sound of B Bounce being used over Wavebounce. It makes sense and it's descriptive, and keeps part of the old technique's name intact. Do it.

I'm in complete agreement that "Hyphen Smash" is a ******** name and that it should be changed, although my vote goes to "Running Usmash" rather than "Dashing Usmash." Why? Because the dash attack is (afaik) the official name of the move. We were not the ones who named it, were we? On the other hand, we often go as far as to separate "initial dash" from "run." I don't know about you guys, but I rarely hear that separated as "initial dash" and "dash." Sure, you hear people say "and then they dashed over to the edge," but you need to perform an initial dash before you can go into the run, so the use checks out there, as well. Although you can perform the running usmash from both a run or a dash, more frequently people will be using it after already going into a run, so I think it's fair to call it a "running usmash" rather than a "dashing usmash." Also, I never once heard someone call a JC usmash in melee a "dashing usmash," although I certainly heard them call it a "running usmash."

No comment on dragonic reverse.

 

[Levitas]

However, following the convention of dash attack for the running form, we can maintain consistency by using the term dashing usmash.

While dash =/= run, dash [attack] refers to both, so why should we alter the naming scheme a part of the family of techniques if we already have an officially established precedent?

 

[leafgreen386]

Do you call fox's shine the "reflector?" Do you call teching "ukemi?" I don't think you do. Official =/= what the community has to call it. From what I've seen, people refer to the post-initial dash state as a "run," which is the point at which most usmashes are used from a dash. I'll give you that "dashing usmash" is more consistent with terms such as "dash grab" or "dash attack," but the term "running usmash" has greater precedence in actually being used in conversation. I think it might be best just to let this action have two names; it's understood what you're referring to regardless of which you use, and both have precedence in their use.

 

[Levitas]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss and decide on standard terms within the community. I think it's inefficient to have two names for one term. Furthermore, I accept your point on both ukemi and that dashing usmashes are commonly done out of a run.

However, I wouldn't use a different base word for wavelanding than for wavedashing, even if both didn't play a large part in the game. Dash attack is both official and accepted. I see no reason why running is superior to dashing to an extent that it would over-ride a convention already in place.

 

[leafgreen386]

See, had this been a newly discovered AT, I would have no trouble in calling it a "dashing usmash." However, this is a technique that has been in practice since melee, where it was frequently called either 1) JC Usmash, the proper term, or 2) Running Usmash, the colloquial term. In fact, I believe I've seen people say "running JC usmash" before, as well, to specify that it is not out of shine or shield (which may I add is frequently referred to just as "usmash out of shine/shield," with no mention of the "JC" part). Anyway, this term carried over into brawl, and those who did not immediately jump onto the hyphen smash bandwagon frequently referred to it simply as a "running usmash."

The point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be renaming something that already has a proper term. Attributing to it an alternative, also proper term is acceptable, as the new term may be more technically correct, but ripping away names such as these for something that says basically the same thing is pointless. We still have people who alternate using "Powershield" and "Perfect Shield," but everyone knows exactly what is being referred to. One of these terms has precedence in the use of the community and the other solidifies itself as an official term coined by Sakurai. If we establish both "dashing usmash" and "running usmash" as "official" terms and let the community choose which they prefer to refer to it as in colloquial language, one will likely take heavy precedence over the other over time, essentially solving the problem on its own. Both terms are equally effective in their purpose, so let it take itself to the streets.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

But I think it is a matter of where you are and who you talk to when determining what is the "accepted" terminology. I 100% agree with you that we should not rename things that have already been named conventionally in ways that make sense. I, personally, refer to this as a "running upsmash" when talking about the game, but I've heard people refer to it as "dashing upsmash" as well. Which is more common? Perhaps one is more common in some regions than the other, but there is no way of discovering which is more commonly used. Thus, the only solution is to choose one of the two names to give it. The popular concensus so far has been "dashing upsmash," so unless you can somehow show us that "running upsmash" is more commonly used, then "dashing upsmash" seems to be the one that we'll go with for now.

Note that I have no qualms reopening a previously "decided" entry if there are any complaints/qualms with it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, technically, you could make a poll and include a link to it in each regional section. Perhaps add a poll to each of those threads, too, simply for the sake of interest in what's the most popular in each region. Either way, it would accomplish the job of finding out what is considered the more "accepted" term, instead of telling what may or may not be the majority of the population that "you are wrong."

 

[SCOTU]

I don't think that's what panda meant. I think he wanted proof that one is a blowout over the other in popularity. And i don't think posting a bunch of polls is necessary to do that. Actually, based on our discussion, i believe that it's not a blowout in either direction, so we must just pick one of the two. Consensus was for the dash usmash because it fits with the dash attack. Even though you can perform a dashing usmash out of a run and not just a dash, you can do so with a dash attack too, and dash attack is a common term amongst different fighting games.

Edit: be sure to screen cap your postbit after 6 more posts

 

[leafgreen386]

Although is this group really a representative sample of the entire smash population? I don't think it is. The smashlab is small, and even a smaller number of people have posted about the dashing/running usmash. If you polled an actually representative sample of tourney players, the vote could and probably will turn out very different from the vote in here. The regional sections tend to have most of the active tourney players from their respective regions, so the end result should be very accurate. Also, only one poll would be needed (probably made in the tactical brawl discussion), and then just link to it in from each regional section. The only reason I mentioned having a poll in each regional section would be so we know where the votes are all coming from.

And how else besides a poll could I "prove" that one side is greatly favored over the other? Everything else is just hearsay, otherwise.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

But is this important enough to merit such an extreme effort? I don't really think so. We're flexible, so if/when we release our list of "renamed terms," and people, for some reason, riot against "dashing upsmash," then we'll simply change it to "running upsmash."

However, how about this: We continue on with our renaming effort and we'll take a note whenever a problem like this occurs again in the future. Then I'll make a general poll in the tactical or the GBD with multiple selections for various different techniques, and we can go off of that. I have no qualms with doing that after we have completed renaming most other things.


Now back to the subject at hand: Wavebouncing. I'm a fan of B bouncing, and BB is a fine acronym. If anybody else has ideas, now is the time to suggest them, as I believe we should move on from this one soon.

 

[ColinJF]

The only argument against "B bouncing" is that it is specific to the default gamecube controller control scheme, where "b" is associated with "specials". Although everybody uses this control scheme, it might not be a good idea to associate the default controllers' buttons with the official terms. (So "special bouncing" could be an alternative term.)

 

[SCOTU]

Although "B moves" and "B sticking" are already accepted standards which indicate that people don't care that it's the B button (esp for B sticking).

B Bouncing it is.

 

[leafgreen386]

But is this important enough to merit such an extreme effort? I don't really think so. We're flexible, so if/when we release our list of "renamed terms," and people, for some reason, riot against "dashing upsmash," then we'll simply change it to "running upsmash."

However, how about this: We continue on with our renaming effort and we'll take a note whenever a problem like this occurs again in the future. Then I'll make a general poll in the tactical or the GBD with multiple selections for various different techniques, and we can go off of that. I have no qualms with doing that after we have completed renaming most other things.

I do agree that it might be a little extreme for something so simple, although it is probably the most fair. It would just mean posting an identical thread in each regional forum that links to a poll in brawl tactical discussion. I also agree this is something we should save till the end after we've finished renaming everything else. I was going to mention that, actually, but I forgot.

The only argument against "B bouncing" is that it is specific to the default gamecube controller control scheme, where "b" is associated with "specials". Although everybody uses this control scheme, it might not be a good idea to associate the default controllers' buttons with the official terms. (So "special bouncing" could be an alternative term.)

This is a good point. I think the only tech that we've ever named by the default control scheme is B sticking. I think we should discuss whether we want to keep this term or not before getting into problems with "B bouncing," which afaik traditionally uses the B stick setup to perform. If no one has any qualms with the term "B stick" then I don't think this should be considered an issue for B bouncing.

edit: beaten, and that's another good point about "B moves."

 

[infomon]

Hrrrrm, I mostly agree with leafgreen, but I think polling for name-acceptance would be a terrible idea. Then again, I think when this list of "official names" goes public, it will be the laughing stock of SWF.

Hyphen Smashing: The name is very widespread and liked, so even though it's dumb, it's such an obvious game mechanic it might be best if we just left this alone. Anyway, the names "running upsmash" and "dashing upsmash" are virtually identical, and we needn't try to pick one over the other, since you can say either and it's immediately obvious what you mean; there's never been any confusion. People should be free to use whichever is more convenient; in some paragraphs you might want to stay consistent calling a run a "dash", whereas in others it may be a useful visual cue to have a sharp distinction between "running upsmash" and "dash attack" (too much "dash" can make things hard to read). There are good reasons to allow multiple equivalent names for something to exist.

(Admittedly, Running Upsmash is my preference, for fear that Dashing Upsmash would someday abbreviate to "dashush" *shudder*).

DACUS / DAHCUS / Boost-(anything): I can't believe everyone's voting for Boost Upsmash. I never see that term in use, and it's strictly less meaningful IMO than DACUS, which is both in common circulation and actually describes what the move is / how to do it. You cancel a dash-attack into an up-smash; it's so immediately clear, once you're told the acronym.

To put things in perspective... Sonic can use a Running Upsmash, a Jump-Cancelled Running Upsmash, or a DACUS, to travel three different distances. Any of those could be legitimately called a "Boost Upsmash", especially if used out of the initial dash after a foxtrot (since you'll noticeably jerk forward into the up-smash). "Boost Usmash" is kinda awkward, but "Boost Smash" misleadingly suggests that any Smash could be used.

Also, why does DACUS need to be distinguished from DAHCUS? They're basically the same, right? (It's just that some of the opening frames of some dash attacks are able to connect before the up-smash, which conveniently gives you some time to input the up-smash from hitlag? Is that what this is?) I wouldn't have a problem calling both moves DACUS, and maybe using the acronym DAHCUS where the distinction is relevant.

Wavebouncing: It's just using a turnaround-B and a B-reverse at the same time, right? I'd just as soon encourage ppl to simply use those two "component" terms. "Wavebounce" is really widespread though, I think B-Bouncing is just as dumb. I don't think there's any real harm from calling it a wavebounce; it just kinda sucks is all.

Kirk: It is indeed a boosted item throw. People are too used to the DAC term even though it's being improperly used over the Boost term, which admittedly has not seen any use since Melee (the term, not the technique).

Sooo.... what's wrong with the term DACIT, if that's exactly what it is? Importing terms from Melee seems of lesser importance if the Brawl community has an equally legitimate convention.

 

[ColinJF]

Something else we should probably officially distinguish between is DI and air control. There is widespread misuse of the term "DI" to refer to air control (or "drifting through the air"), so if we are publishing an official list of terms, it should probably emphasise that DI is not air control.

Scotu's list does have them separate, but it doesn't emphasise that they aren't the same thing, which I think is important since I see a lot of new players confused by this, and adding notes like that will help one of the audiences the list is designed for.

This isn't so much a renaming idea as it is an idea for a note to add to the list.