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Brawl Teminology Renaming Project: What to rename?

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SCOTU

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(this is one of the reasons I can't play Melee anymore. I try to Hyphen Smash, and forget that I can't use the Cstick to do it without crouch cancelling. Not that Hyphen Smashing is useful in Melee, but it's Brawl habits, and I suck at Melee anyway, lol)
You "Dash Cancel" it by hitting down, NOT crouch cancel. two totally different terms. l2term

Every tried playing fox? it's pretty **** good for him.
 

Zankoku

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JC usmashing in Melee is good with Fox, Sheik (techchase), kinda Peach, and probably Mario for some throw combo purposes.
 

Pierce7d

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If you press any direction besides up and hit A while running, you'll get a dash attack. Obviously.

I'm under the impression that C-Stick doesn't really care about whether you turn tap jump on or off, because there's too many things that support C-Stick "Smash Attack" being a smashdirection+A macro compared to those that go against it.
This still doesn't really justify a jump canceled Usmash, otherwise in the air, we'd double jump Uair, instead of just ordinarily Uairing.

You "Dash Cancel" it by hitting down, NOT crouch cancel. two totally different terms. l2term

Every tried playing fox? it's pretty **** good for him.
I'm aware, and I get the term mixed up because I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in Melee.

JC usmashing in Melee is good with Fox, Sheik (techchase), kinda Peach, and probably Mario for some throw combo purposes.
Yeah . . . I used to play Marth in Melee, but I don't want to mess up my Brawl Marth. Now I do play Fox in Melee, which is when I noticed this.
 

Levitas

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The nature of abbrieviations is that they maintain a level of description while shortening the length of a term.

hyphen smashing fails at both these aspects. running/dashing usmash is the same level of length.

I'm of the opinion that if we can get a decent abbrieviation for this, it's worth using. However, it should be something that both shortens and describes the technique.

The only thing hyphen smashing has going for it is that it's already been popularized, and this shouldn't stand as its own justification.
 

SCOTU

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imo, a two word term is short enough. it doesn't need an abbrv imo
 

Zankoku

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That's like simplifying it to -

Because that's the (really stupid imo) play on words that it came from.
 

Pierce7d

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That's like simplifying it to -

Because that's the (really stupid imo) play on words that it came from.
I always liked the intuitiveness of that term actually. I was under the impression that it was called a hyphen smash because of the dash done when executing it.

Dashing = running
Hyphening = running and Usmashing.
 

SCOTU

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The point was to remove the "hyphen" part because it doesn't mean anything useful. "Running usmash" conveys the full meaning of what it is while being short enough to not be awkward. I personally don't even think that "running usmash" should be a term, but rather just how you refer to doing a usmash out of run with the cstick, since it really isn't anything deserving of a name. It'll get no official term, but just have a colloquial "Running usmash"
 

Zankoku

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It's not intuitive at all, unless you're familiar with the English language terms for certain symbols. - could be a dash, or a minus, or a hyphen. But why should people know this? And if they didn't, how would they know what "hyphen smash" even means without being told beforehand? "Boost smash" is intuitive - you're boosting your momentum while performing a smash attack. "Dash cancel" is intuitive - you're canceling your dash (by crouching). "Hyphen smash..." Well, it demonstrates some knowledge of the English language, but I don't see how it's an intuitive term in the least.
 

Levitas

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not only that, but the hyphen is a different symbol. It requires a very specific lack of knowledge in english to equate the two.

As for shortening hyphen smashing into hyphening, (insert aforementioned points) and that's like using another word for dashing, as this implies that we are equating a hyphen to a dash for some reason.
 

Mmac

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Really though, do we REALLY need a fancy term for Dash Usmashing? Do we really need to even have it as a term at all? It just seems.... silly. It's not even on Scotu's List of Terms.



Fine, I'll drop the Wave crap, but I do not think Double Jump Land Cancelling is the correct term to describe it. Also, because it has the same mechanics of the Waves (And I think we have different views on "Mechanics" and "Inputs" you and I...), it will eventually end up as a Tech Tree just like the Waves. There's going to be Double Jump Land Cancel Sliding, Double Jump Land Cancel Dashing, Double Jump Land Cancel Forward Pivoting, Double Jump Land Cancel Egg Sliding, Double Jump Cancel Egg Sliding II, Super Double Jump Cancel Egg Sliding II Turbo HD Remix....

It actually doesn't look that bad, but I think we can simply it more and better, which is why I want something like WaveSliding. You guys are looking too much on how it is done, and not what it does.
 

Levitas

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If it has that many offshoots, it should be a tree term of its own.

Also, I think it's more related to DJC than wavelanding.

Still, a different word would be appropriate.
 

SCOTU

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The definitions of "Mechanic" and "Input" aren't really up for debate. They're pretty objective.

Mechanic - Some fundamental programmed aspect of the games behavior

Input - What a player presses on the controllers to obtain an outcome

Yes, they are different inputs. However, they are different mecanics, since you're using your double jump and bair and landing sliding momentum for your momentum, vs a wavedash which uses the waveland mechanic of an air dodge going into the ground. They are fundamentally different. One comes from landing with horizontal momentum, one comes from a special state and induced momentum.
 

Kirk

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I'm all for changing "Hyphen Smash" to "Dashing USmash."

I think 'dashing' would be more appropriate than 'running' as well...for consistency.

Since a 'Dash Attack' refers to attacking while running or dashing, a 'Dashing USmash' would refer to performing an USmash while running or dashing.
 

MuBa

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Question. Why are trying to rename some of the ATs when the termed used for it is already popular?

It's like trying to do Bush's idea of calling French Fries into Freedom Fries (Albeit the name is pretty stupid). I mean the fries aren't even french; the recipe originates in Belgium.
 

Zankoku

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Renaming attempting to maintain both consistency and clarity. For example, do you really want to explain what the "DLX Hit Cancel" is to new people and why it's called that? It'd be a lot easier to explain something that isn't randomly named after a person.
 

Levitas

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On the other hand, we do need to provide other stuff (complete frame data on all characters?) to gain some legitimacy before trying to just state that the term has been changed.

Common sense will only win us so much support.
 

Steel

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I agree, we should probably release something pretty big to start off. Let people know we aren't just goofing off then we can work on the things that have lesser priority (this probably).
 

Xiivi

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I agree, we should probably release something pretty big to start off. Let people know we aren't just goofing off then we can work on the things that have lesser priority (this probably).
Well, something "big" would be releasing the frame data for all characters, however that would be something that we should probably just release as each character is completed.

I can't really think of something big or interesting right now. Perhaps doing something more useful like researching ZSS's downsmash chains and the proper staling mechanics or Wario's downthrow chains (Lucas looks very weird as one of the ones vulnerable to it).

Just throwing ideas out there.
 

SamuraiPanda

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No, we are absolutely not sticking with Hyphen Smashing. That term is incredibly silly.

And yeah, this stuff is supposed to be a lower priority than the research/frame data. I'm going to be opening the nominations hopefully sometime today or tomorrow, because I want to get more people in here to speed things up.
 

SCOTU

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Official Vote:

What's currently known as the "DACUS"

Leave it be?
Rename it to "Boost Usmash"?

Personally, I'm voting for the Boost usmash, since DACUS doesn't really fit quite right, and i'd go with the naming scheme that matches with the Boost Grab, plus it conveys the purpose of the technique rather than the components (which you never see the dash attack).

Please focus all following discussion until end of vote on this topic.
 

Zankoku

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Boost usmash

It follows the same mechanic as Melee's boost grab, so it should follow proper naming convention as well.
 

Xiivi

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Boost up-smash gets my vote.

The only reason I'd really want to keep DACUS would be it allows DAHCUS to be used for the DLX Hit Cancel. But that'd be a pretty silly reason.
 

SCOTU

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that's a silly reason because DAHCUS is still in the running for the DLX lol, even if we rename DACUS.
 

SamuraiPanda

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I've decided what to do after we figure out potential names for things. It will probably be a multi-vote poll where you can vote for the renaming of your choice (or none if you don't like any). Right now we have DACUS and Boost Upsmash. I think we're done talking about that one specific one.

Now lets turn to the on-hit dash attack canceled up smash. I've thrown out on-hit DACUS, and I've seen DAHCUS. If we use boost upsmash instead of DACUS, then we won't be able to use either. Any ideas?
 

SCOTU

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I say either DACUS or DAHCUS, there's no reason that the renaming of Boost Usmashing should affect this. for this on hit cancel, you're using a dash attack (that comes out and hits), and cancelling it into a usmash (which comes out and hopefully hits). Both "DACUS" and "DAHCUS" perfectly describe what this technique does and how to do it, and abbreviate well. I'd say either of those. Or Ankoku Blasting.
 

Hylian

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I like Boose Smash instead of DACUS and DACUS instead of DLXHC.
 

Xiivi

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Boost Smash being used in place of DACUS should not affect the renaming of DLXHC.

I would say DLXHC should be DAHCUS and not DACUS since both describe it well, but DAHCUS would not create any confusion whereas using DACUS would.
 

Kirk

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I say DACUS for the 'DLXHC.'

For one, just like scotu has said, it perfectly explains it...a Dash Attack that is canceled into an USmash. Also, DACUS is already being used by the general community, and I don't see why we need to introduce something new like DAHCUS when there is another term that describes the AT just as well.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Alright, thats good then. DACUS is the popular name for DLXHC. Now lets move on.

"Hyphen Smash"

I suggest running or dashing upsmash. Simple, easy, understandable, and doesn't sound like we're giving arbitrary terms to things that don't need it.
 

Mmac

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I second that, I don't even see why it even needs to be a term at all. It's basically what it is, and I don't see anything that special to warrant it as it's own term


Not to sound dumb, but that does DLXHC stand for? I haven't heard the term until today...
 

Kirk

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I'm all for changing "Hyphen Smash" to "Dashing USmash."

I think 'dashing' would be more appropriate than 'running' as well...for consistency.

Since a 'Dash Attack' refers to attacking while running or dashing, a 'Dashing USmash' would refer to performing an USmash while running or dashing.
My input for 'Hyphen Smashing.'

Also, off the current topic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212159.

This guy claims something to be DACIT (Dash Attack Canceled Item Toss), but it looks like Item Boosting to me...thoughts?
 
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