Brawl picked up by EVO....Good or Bad?

[hippochinfat!!]

Alright. Lets say you do this. Lets say we're on FD (stage doesn't matter, just easier to illustrate). You want to "camp" items by avoiding me. So you wait over on the right side of the stage, expecting me to give chase so you can then run to the other side. Tell me now, why I should go to you? You are now positioning yourself in one location, whereas I have access to the rest of the stage. Because items don't spawn in set locations in set intervals, you have now cut yourself off from the items, not camped them, as I have no reason to bother with you if you are wanting to "avoid me". You won't be getting the items because while you're avoiding me, I'm keeping you at a position so you're still in this mindset of avoiding me while still managing the rest of the stage.

This is where the key in strategy lies in item usage. You can't camp the items themselves, only locations on the stage. With items in play, this puts people who camp locations at a disadvantage, due to the fact they're only controlling a small portion of the stage while their opponent has free reign over everything else. That player that has been camping now has to go on the offensive or just get every item he could have had by not camping brought to him in ways he really doesn't want to have happen.

Whatever. They still add to much randomness. You knock somone off the edge and all of a sudden the PERFECT item to edgeguard with spawns at your feet! Some guy is down by a stock and and item spawns RIGHT next to him that he can use to easily get a kill.

Tournaments are based off of SKILL and items make it more about luck.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

By the way can somone tell me what this whole SRK thing is? I don't go to to many tournaments and I don't know much about tournaments on other games in general. All I know is they sound PRETTY stupid. Why do they have to test things that have already been tested? It's like they shot a guy and killed him they would say "HMMM WELL I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO SHOOT ANOTHER GUY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TEST THIS AGAIN BECAUSE TESTING THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS VERY IMPORTANT AND SHOWS THAT WE ARE BETTER AND FAR SMARTER THEN YOU"

 

[Alex Strife]

trolls trolls everywhere lol

 

[Johnknight1]

I find it funny that the smash community is going to have to repeat over again the whole item debate. I wonder how long before it gets sorted out this time around?

The reason for taking off items the first time around wasn’t because of capsules appearing in front smashers and killing them. It was because of the inherent randomtivity of items. Items are RANDOM. They appear in random places giving a player a random advantage. Things that are random have no place in tournaments. It is already bad enough that there is tripping in brawl; let’s not make it worse with items… again.

The argument for brawl being a new game doesn’t matter. The fact that items are random is the same in both melee and brawl. If brawl was a street fighter like game that had random placement items in it, then items would be banned in that game as well.

Capsules can be turned off, genius. Items take skill, or at least some of them. More then without, even, or at least in Brawl. The bumper, fan, team healer, ptifall, etc. all involve skill. Tell me how using the fan effectively ISN'T SKILL! The item isn't even a killing item, yet it tears people apart. You people who are trying to play Melee with Brawl are the real issue with the tournament scene, and can't get over Melee rules are the real issue. This isn't f***ing Melee. Melee is a diffrent game. Go play Melee rules with Melee. O, and you can dodge these "items", too.

You automatically catch items via midair dodges, too. Dodging properly involves skill, does it not. Throwing items you've held onto at your opponents after a "fake-out" to set them up for a kill involves skill, does it not? Seriously, I tear people apart that don't know how to use items by using weak items as mindgames. Items=mindgames. Mindgames=more offense. Brawl=a game about defense. It changes the formula. You aren't even giving items a chance, worst of all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're judging items, and you haven't even experimented playing with them. Most items SHOULD NOT BE TOURNET LEGAL. About 5 to 10 or so should be considered. Tell me how the Team Healer involves NO SKILL in a 2v2. Go on, tell me. Even if it appears randomly, you still have to throw it at the right person, at the right time.

For the final time, THIS IS NOT MOTHER F***ING MELEE! Stop being the stupid 4chan steriotype, and think for a minute. Seriously, this is a new game, with new competitve rules. Random explosives goodbye. Crates, barrels, and capsules goodbye. Seriously, HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED BRAWL? Have you even USED ITEMS? I've played with items-and a few of them involve a lot of skill IF AND ONLY IF you know how to use/apply them. Seriously, try every item out before making a ill-informed judgement and conclusion. Goid d***, when will people learn that all Melee rules are out the window is true?

 

[Aesir]

After playing the last 3 hours of brawl with items, I'm beginning to think items are really to random for competitive play.

3 hours playing with my friend and there was no definite winner the outcomes were just so different.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

You know, there just doesn't seem any point in arguing about this anymore. Based on the discussion here and in srk, it's obvious that those pro-item testing will continue to tell us that Brawl is a new game and not Melee, and those con-item testing will continue to say that it doesn't freakin' matter that the games are different and the issue is completely irrelevant of that fact.

It'll be a complete joke when during the final match at evo, the top two contestants on their last life, everyone on their heels in anticipation of who will win, and at the worst possible moment an item will appear completely within the grasp of one player, and that item alone basically decides the match. I'm sure everyone walking away from that will feel that was an accurate measurement of the skill of those two players. And even if that doesn't happen, the very fact that it could should be enough to ban all items.

But that's what it's going take, isn't it? Everyone's time and money wasted just to prove a point. I mean, why fix the intersection if no one's died yet? Better to wait till someone's died first before we decide there's a problem, right? No sense in being smart enough to just do it right in the first place so no one has to die.

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

Whatever. They still add to much randomness. You knock somone off the edge and all of a sudden the PERFECT item to edgeguard with spawns at your feet! Some guy is down by a stock and and item spawns RIGHT next to him that he can use to easily get a kill.

Tournaments are based off of SKILL and items make it more about luck.

And again, defensive options have opened up greatly since Melee. You can act after an air dodge, as well as air dodge multiple times in one time's worth of airtime. You can also catch items a hell of a lot easier. Worried about that person chucking the star rod your direction after you're off the stage? Catch it. Not good enough to catch it? Air dodge then catch it, then recover. You have far more options than you did in Melee to deal with "that perfectly timed item spawn".

By the way can somone tell me what this whole SRK thing is? I don't go to to many tournaments and I don't know much about tournaments on other games in general. All I know is they sound PRETTY stupid. Why do they have to test things that have already been tested? It's like they shot a guy and killed him they would say "HMMM WELL I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO SHOOT ANOTHER GUY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TEST THIS AGAIN BECAUSE TESTING THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS VERY IMPORTANT AND SHOWS THAT WE ARE BETTER AND FAR SMARTER THEN YOU"

If you aren't even a tourney goer, how do you know what you're even talking about? You're wet behind the ears at best. I'm not trying to discriminate against you simply because "you're not elite enough to have been a tourney goer", mind you. I'm just saying that there are some things you find out when you truly immerse yourself into the competitive scene (of any game, from Boggle to Street Fighter). To question those with vast experience in competitive gaming as a whole without having the knowledge yourself seems a bit ignorant.

 

[Taekmkm]

Items impede a character's development. Players didn't learn half the stuff we knew now about Fox or Samus in Melee with items on, and I'm extremely sure we wouldn't know half the stuff about Snake or Toon Link as we do now with items on.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

The future of evo tournaments! http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDAo4Ameyn0

 

[Firestorm88]

Did they stop comparing Final Smashes to supers yet? For some reason I found it hard to enter a board where people think being randomly awarded a super is the same as building it up through the match with your own actions.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

Did they stop comparing Final Smashes to supers yet? For some reason I found it hard to enter a board where people think being randomly awarded a super is the same as building it up through the match with your own actions.

Actually, it gets worse. They watch matches like that all unanimously agree that it's perfectly acceptable!

That whole forum is a complete joke.

 

[GameBoyBob]

Capsules can be turned off, genius. Items take skill, or at least some of them. More then without, even, or at least in Brawl. The bumper, fan, team healer, ptifall, etc. all involve skill. Tell me how using the fan effectively ISN'T SKILL! The item isn't even a killing item, yet it tears people apart. You people who are trying to play Melee with Brawl are the real issue with the tournament scene, and can't get over Melee rules are the real issue. This isn't f***ing Melee. Melee is a diffrent game. Go play Melee rules with Melee. O, and you can dodge these "items", too.

You automatically catch items via midair dodges, too. Dodging properly involves skill, does it not. Throwing items you've held onto at your opponents after a "fake-out" to set them up for a kill involves skill, does it not? Seriously, I tear people apart that don't know how to use items by using weak items as mindgames. Items=mindgames. Mindgames=more offense. Brawl=a game about defense. It changes the formula. You aren't even giving items a chance, worst of all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're judging items, and you haven't even experimented playing with them. Most items SHOULD NOT BE TOURNET LEGAL. About 5 to 10 or so should be considered. Tell me how the Team Healer involves NO SKILL in a 2v2. Go on, tell me. Even if it appears randomly, you still have to throw it at the right person, at the right time.

For the final time, THIS IS NOT MOTHER F***ING MELEE! Stop being the stupid 4chan steriotype, and think for a minute. Seriously, this is a new game, with new competitve rules. Random explosives goodbye. Crates, barrels, and capsules goodbye. Seriously, HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED BRAWL? Have you even USED ITEMS? I've played with items-and a few of them involve a lot of skill IF AND ONLY IF you know how to use/apply them. Seriously, try every item out before making a ill-informed judgement and conclusion. Goid d***, when will people learn that all Melee rules are out the window is true?

Look up at my post again. Did you see the word SKILL mentioned once in the whole thing? No you don’t. The argument is that items are random. And random + skill is not for tournaments. It should be skill alone that determines a match. Not some random event.

What is even more funny is that you argue about capsules being turned off, when in my post I acknowledged that it wasn’t about capsules and crates themselves. It is about the random factor! How can you argue to turn off one item and not turn off all the rest?

Melee and brawl are completely different games in some ways, but they share a core mechanic with random placement for items.

 

[King Zeal]

It's up to you to find and display that proof in Brawl to the EVO committee if you want items to be banned in Brawl.

Sunday night, I played a 1v1 match against a rather equally-skilled opponent. We played Delfino Plaza with all items on. During the final moments of the match, I had set my opponent's Pikachu up perfectly to get hit with Dedede's up-tilt, which was guaranteed to KO him at his damage percentage.

Then, all of a sudden, a Starman appeared and bounced directly into Pikachu. All of a sudden, after I had to match WON, my Dedede is on the run from Pikachu. (Can you imagine a Dedede trying to outrun Pikachu? >.> Anyway . . . ) I manage to survive the Starman assault, but took heavy damage. Eventually, Pikachu got in one final hit that won him the game.

Now, my point is this: The fact that this could happen in a tourney should be enough to warrant a ban. I lost a match through NO fault of my own, only because my opponent was blessed with intervention from the Smash gods. If a tournament is a contest of skill, doesn't that undermine the entire effort? Why does it actually need to happen in official tournaments (possibly discouraging any serious competitors from even giving Brawl a chance) before a ban is considered?

Let me put this another way: Street Fighter Alpha 3 (on PS1) allowed players to create custom characters. Were they allowed in competition? If not, was it play-tested first?

 

[Catfish_Mike]

Tell me how using the fan effectively ISN'T SKILL!

HAHAHA!!! A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, A, Fwd+Z takes soooooo much skill.

You're a ******, items have no place in a competition, so stop deluding yourself and get back to /v/.

 

[Artery_Clogger]

I still don't understand why EVO chose Brawl to be in the tournament. The game is so new and right now is pretty shallow. It just doesn't seem to be in the same league as the other fighters on the list. All of the other games (I think) have been proven to be deep, competitive fighters and have been around for a while (except maybe Tekken 5).

Brawl will probably have a lot of entrants just because many people seem so infatuated with it, but why should it be put in solely based on its popularity? A better decision would have been to have kept Melee in or put in a more traditional fighter they've used in the past.

 

[Atrion]

A big problem with the SRK mindset is that they feel the default settings of a game are gospel. Since their fighters are arcade games there really isn’t too much they can change (I know there are some options, but nowhere near the level of customization that smash presents). They feel that by stripping away all of the items we are in fact limiting the potential depth of the game, but all these means is that you must know your character and their match ups that much more. There will be nothing else to rely on.

Another interesting point brought up by an intelligent pro-item poster at SRK was that

“Maybe the reason SRK is so open to items relative to Smashboards is that we already get the 1v1-control-the-opponent's-space-and-options thing with all the other games we play, and we've been getting it for a really long time. Normally when a new game comes along there's a lot of new tactics to learn, but usually it's the same type of strategy. With Brawl, where you have to control the space around a neutral third object on stages where you have to defend advantageous positions, there actually is new strategy. I can understand why players whose first, only, or main fighting game is Melee or Brawl really want to keep the 1v1-control-your-opponent thing, because that kind of strategy is totally awesome. Just recognize that no items/few stages basically turns Smash into a modified regular fighting game and takes out a lot of very unique strategy, strategy that I think is pretty interesting.” – UltraDavid


I very much agree with his reasoning for why the majority of SRK members have a similar pro-item view. I understand that he feels items add a lot to the game and he couldn’t understand why we would want to turn them off, and that’s fine. I mean how many of you played smash for the very first time with no items. I know me and my friends didn’t back on n64, but when I started playing competitively those went right out the window. We do have to realize that with SSBB there has been a major wave of new players and that SSBB is their first experience with the smash series. There isn’t too much use debating with them right now because it’s so fresh and new to them. Let them play their games and come to a decision themselves, because at this stage of the game no one really wants to be told that they are being a bunch of scrubs and don’t know how to play the game. Over time perhaps the SRK members will start to dislike items while trying to play in a competitive manner.

In the end whatever rule set EVO decides to run with will most likely be just that. THEIR rule set. I really don’t see whatever they decide to have some major effect on the smash community but perhaps the other way around. If SWF has a reasonably unified rule set that is being used in major tournys than that will most likely be given the most attention. If by nearing EVO’s starting date item+FS tournys are not catching fire I see little reason for them to be put in.

 

[thesage]

List of items and why they should be banned.

Pokeball: lol, do I have to explain this.

Bumper: that thing kill you at crazy low percents. How much skill does it take to just throw it at someone when they recover or near the edge.

Anything that explodes: banned, they all have the potential of blowing up while you are still holding them. And they are also really powerful.

Beam Sword: It is almost as long as half of fd. Banned

Fan and Mr. Saturn: destroys shields. Plus Mr. Saturn can eat projectiles while he is on the stage. Banned.

Home Run bat: the foward smash is so slow it's basically just a projectile, a very powerful projectile that kos at low percents. Banned.

Lightning/ Clock: don't even argue to allow these.

Final Smashes: Some characters just have terrible final smashes while others rock. Landmasters have the potential to take out more than one stock. They also spawn way more often when there are hardly any items unbanned, which is what happens with this list.

Boxes/ Capsules: Banned. Rolling boxes are too broken and can become powerful projectiles on non flat stages by simply spawning. Capsules still explode and are pretty useless as all they do is spawn another item.

Hammer/ Golden Hammer: Banned. They're just too powerful and either the person who gets them is *****, *****, or it becomes a stall game. Golden Hammer = best edgeguard in the game.

Banana Peel: I would allow these if there were more items on. With so few items on these would spawn a lot and increase the rate of tripping, which hardly anybody likes in the first place.

Mushrooms: Banned. Big Mushroom not only increase knockback, but also damage given. This just becomes too broken when the average f-smash does 18 damage.

Ray Gun: Can juggle the person infinitely off the ledge. Don't say this takes skill, cuz I did it on my first try. Banned.

Star Rod: Shoots out a projectile, then becomes one after your done with it? It also has really good horizontal knockback. I'm iffy on this one, but I would favor a ban.

Smoke Ball: I would allow it, but it's practically useless. Why would you want to pick it up?

Dragoon Parts: It's basically an insta kill and it can also be use to stall a match. If there's a time limit on how long you can hold it then it would still be banned cuz it is an instant ko. Plus you can lose a part after being jabbed and your opponent keeps his after being Ike F-smashed.

Screw attack: combos into rest. If it was allowed, jigglypuff would just float around and camp until it appeared. Now a jumping jigglypuff = instant death. It also combos into moves like shine (setting up for easy shinespikes).

Bunny Hood: Do we need to make brawl floatier?

Metal Box: Do we need to make brawl matches last even longer than they already do.

Frankilin Badge: it reflect every projectile. Banned.


Hothead: can grow to the size of half a stage. Banned.

So all in all:

Allowed:

Smoke Ball

Maybe:

Banana Peel (if more items were on)
Star Rod (I would like to see other people's opinions on it)

 

[Dream Chaser]

I support no form of banning unless its absolutely essential.
Are you sure that all of these bans are absolutely essential?

 

[NoVaLombardia]

plz dont act like any shooter ever will compare to halo. 360..,pc or otherwise

quake 2...

10char

 

[King Zeal]

I support no form of banning unless its absolutely essential.
Are you sure that all of these bans are absolutely essential?

That depends on your idea of essential.

 

[BigRick]

thesage's list is ridiculous, just say that you don't like items, you will waste less time that way

Also there's some very contradictory reasoning in there:

''Home Run bat: the foward smash is so slow it's basically just a projectile, a very powerful projectile that kos at low percents. Banned.''

''Metal Box: Do we need to make brawl matches last even longer than they already do.''

 

[thesage]

thesage's list is ridiculous, just say that you don't like items, you will waste less time that way

Also there's some very contradictory reasoning in there:

''Home Run bat: the foward smash is so slow it's basically just a projectile, a very powerful projectile that kos at low percents. Banned.''

''Metal Box: Do we need to make brawl matches last even longer than they already do.''

A home run bat throw kos mario at 65 percent w/o di (this is when it's thrown by Mario).

Mario, when he has the metal box on, survives and is able to recover from a home run bat throw at 200 percent.

Mario gets ko'd by Samus' forward smash at 133 without DI.

Mario was at the center of fd every time he got hit.

The first value (the home run bat throw alone) might be a little lower as I found out that there is move decay in training mode (Samus' forward smash sometimes wasn't ko'ing at 133 , instead it was ko'ing at 135 even though it was spaced exactly the same).

Home run bat is broken.

Metal box is even more broken.

Not contradictory.

Edit: I actually liked melee items (the non-broken ones) and would've liked to see them in tournaments if they had set spawn points and there weren't any exploding capsules. I wouldn't have minded them even if they didn't have set spawn points. The items in brawl are just that much gayer.

 

[Shai Hulud]

The real problem with items is that you can't control the time and place that they spawn. In most FPS games you have powerups that spawn in predefined locations at exact intervals, like every 30 seconds, for instance. So people have to fight for that space to get the reward. If the powerups spawned in random locations at random times there would be no strategy for gaining them, and people would luck into advantageous positions.

It's the exact same in Smash. If your opponent is off the edge and a baseball bat drops from the skies, you just lucked into an early KO.

There's also the problem with exploding canisters falling from the sky and randomly killing people.

SRK folk don't seem to understand that Smash is not optimized as a fighting game. It's normal settings are optimized for party game FFA matches. You have to highly customize it to get anything competitive.

 

[Steel Kangaroo]

Eh, let SRK try to get EVO to run Brawl with items on. If it actually happens, they'll see how the gameplay changes dramatically and how cheesey it gets. Maybe then it will teach them to listen to the established smash community and not to people who play other fighting games but aren't good at Brawl.

 

[Yeroc]

That's the entire point - minus the prejudicial disdain for items play and those who merely want to make sure there's not anything that's being overlooked.

 

[Alex Strife]

Here is something interesting I found about brawl at Evo

There are some things where I hope I'm wrong. However, there are certain situations where you look at things and can't help but use the conspiracy card.

Throughout Saturday's "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" tournament at Granada Hills, I watched as many of the players in attendance complained about the items in tournament play.

Many of the players were telling me, "Items suck," without going into more detail. I

had to prod them to make them say why and what items sucked. And throughout the day, I felt that aura in the room, as if everyone was watching the tournament just to wait for that one moment where an item was the sole reason why someone won his or her match.

Once people found "that moment," it would be all the Smash community needed to tell the tournament organizers with the Evolution Fighting Game Championships that items should not be allowed into tournament play.

If I was to guess whether items would be allowed, right now I would say "yes, but not all of them." Seems like the debate has created several sides:

* -- No items
* -- Some items, but low or medium frequency
* -- Some items, but high frequency
* -- All items

Now, how does this relate to the title of "Sabotage?" Let me bring up a story ...

= = =

One of my past girlfriends is an avid video game player.

About 2004, some of my friends asked me what would happen if my ex entered one of my tournaments. Would I let her complete? Would she pay more to participate?

At the time, I told my friends this: I would let my ex compete and pay the same entry fee and all of that. But I wouldn't make things comfortable; I would try to make her tournament experience a very brief one.

How could I do that, especially if it's a double-elimination tournament? Oh, that's so

(scarily) easy.

I would set up a pod that, unless she just became great overnight, she could never get out of. Let's say the four-player pod was ...

My ex vs. DSF
Sniper vs. ShadowBTZO

We're talking about the best versatile player in SoCal, the most technical Fox in SoCal and one of the best Sheik players on the Central Coast. If you knew you had to face two of those three players, you would not unpack your bags because the outcome was nearly inevitable.

Safe to say, the tournament life for my ex wouldn't be one of the longest experiences she's had in her video game career. She'd get punished by DSF first. Then, she would probably have a combined 2-minute shine lesson from Sniper, or she would get chain grabbed to death by ShadowBTZO.

It sends a message; I'm not going to ban her from coming to my tournaments, but would she really want to come to any future tournaments?

= = =

That story came to mind after I talked to some competitors at Saturday's Brawl tournament. And I think it's something that the EVO tournament organizers have to look out for.

When Brawl was introduced into the lineup for EVO 2008, many people were happy, and a lot of other people were upset. Lines of "Kid game," "Fisher Price game," and "not even a fighter" were said throughout the Shoryuken forums.

"How could THIS game get a spot when there were others to choose from?" many people asked.

EVO is not budging. Brawl will be in the lineup, like it or not. And I think those who don't like it are trying to make sure it has a one-and-done showing.

Remember how I said the tournament organizers are asking people to prove that items are not worth having in competitive play? I really believe some people in the items debate are pushing the "must have items" card. Not only that, let's put all the items on heavy frequency. "With nothing being declared 'broken' yet, why not allow everything?" these people say.

Imagine if every item is on high frequency? The turnout for the tournament might not be what is expected (I'm putting the over-under right now at 275). Now picture all of the great players getting bounced early. Imagine a Championship Sunday where you have Scrub A, Scrub B, Scrub C, etc. ... Now imagine if some lucky kid out of nowhere wins the tournament with some sort of buffet of items?

Do you think the Smash community will want to come back to that in 2009? Probably not.

This is the "ex-girlfriend concept" that I brought up earlier. The
tournament experience was so harsh, it's so difficult to come back.

And if that's the case for the Brawl players at EVO, to where they don't come back or the game isn't in the 2009 lineup, it turns out to be a "win" for all of the Smash haters. The Smash haters suffered through two years. They manipulated the tournament organizers to create havoc, and now they won't have to see Smash ever again.

I feel I always have to make note that I do not want items in tournament play at EVO. But since it's looking like items will be in play, my hope is that the tournament organizers see through the "I hate smash" commentators who are hoping that so much chaos is created to the point Brawl doesn't make a repeat appearance.

Updated 3:53 p.m. (because I can't believe an alcoholic mixed drink, aka ****tail, is censored)

 

[KingAce]

Evo better not put items on lol, that would suck ***. If all items are on that would be the gayest tournament... and the bomb-ombs are so annoying too, especially if they pop up randomly infront of you lol

 

[Watty]

my only concern with them picking up brawl is that it will only be a one year deal. Melee was FUN to watch whre as brawl is not so much. Its slower and more defensive based as of right now. So my concern as people will lose interest in it where as melee could entertain a crowd of people who had no idea what was going on.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

EVO picking up smash is good. EVO is a serious fighting game tournament. Smash's inclusion means it is gaining respect as a serious fighting game, as opposed to MLG just picking what's popular. (i.e. Halo as opposed to more skillful FPS games)

Odd, here I was, thinking SSBM and SSBB were picked up, not because they are considered "serious fighters" (hell, I wasn't even aware they were considered real fighters), but because they were a cash cow franchise, and EVO needs money.

EVO messed up smash horribly, too. I don't care if they ****ed up 3s as well, the fact that they messed up so much with SSBM deters me from going to them for any smash-related tournaments. Hello, they're actually considering allowing smash balls. If that's the case, I ~may~ go to one nearby, and pick Sonic. Easiest money maker ever.

 

[thesage]

How did they screw up melee last year?

 

[Nica K.O]

items can really mess up the flow of the match in a huge tournament such as EVO....besides my argument about items is.....if its a tournament...arent the players supposed to be fighting each other and not tossing a bomb from one part of the stage to the other....especially with smash balls....its as if there fighting the smash ball and not each other....but i mean this possibly (maybe IS) the first big tournament for brawl so its understandable that they want to test things out this year...but depending on the turn out of the tournament (which is always great) im sure theyll bring it back with changed rules that are reasonable for the players

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

And because apparently someone made another thread and I posted it in that one when it should've been in this one...

Beta Rules up. Click here.

 

[KingAce]

those beta rules are wackkk

 

[S2]

How many Smash players are going to EVO btw?

Honestly, I took one look at that ruleset and there is no way in ---- I'd travel to a tournament with those rules.

That's the type of ruleset I'd expect from a local nub tournament, I'm surprised they aren't just going for the gold and making it a FFA.

 

[-Wolfy-]

I was a ****** and organized a whole trip around it, and with the ruleset that stands, I wouldn't be caught dead there. I say someone hosts EVO 2.0 with legit rulesets at their house. DO IT

I'm joining shoryuken just to argue that the ruleset in question could potentially stint brawls growth altogether as far as legitimate competition goes. it'll be an embarrassment to the community.

 

[Firestorm88]

If I was in the Vegas area I would drop it, but there's no way I can see anyone travelling to that tournament.

 

[thesage]

Lol. They say everyone should've argued for the ban of items. When people did they just said STFU elitist. >_>;

Also, if they set the timer to 3 minutes for two stocks they clearly aren't playing the game. WTF. 3 stock matches last like 6-8 minutes usually.

I also think it's said that keits (who isn't good at the game at all) claims he's good (in fact he claims he's the best player with items). And their entire community says he's one of the best players in SRK at brawl.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EZbgBsf7Cco

nobody good is going to go unless they live in California or something lol.

 

[ender]

 

[thesage]

I held a smashfest with more reasonable rules >_>;

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Lol. They say everyone should've argued for the ban of items. When people did they just said STFU elitist. >_>;

Also, if they set the timer to 3 minutes for two stocks they clearly aren't playing the game. WTF. 3 stock matches last like 6-8 minutes usually.

I also think it's said that keits (who isn't good at the game at all) claims he's good (in fact he claims he's the best player with items). And their entire community says he's one of the best players in SRK at brawl.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EZbgBsf7Cco

nobody good is going to go unless they live in California or something lol.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzcT05dZ41U

>_________>

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7JC4E-RHLY

>_________________________>