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[Clever_Sleazoid]

I think Ganon's extra jump was unnecessary, but I don't care really.

Falco's shine is ace. Techable in most %, not broken at all, it's like PERFECT. I'm in love.

Lucario's upB needs to go to 1.25x speed, or even to original, and then it's all set! Love dair out of upB so much.

Thumbs up!

I cannot wait until PK Freeze hitboxes are found and we can make it not hit up.

 

[goodoldganon]

If we gave Falco's down-B and Ganon's Up-B a value of 0f to give them hitstun, can't we do the same for the 'swallow' portion of Kirby's neutral-B?

EDIT: and the very furthest-out hitbox of Ness' Fsmash doesnt have the home run bat noise

I don't believe we have the 'swallow' ID. Be a pal and get it for us and we'll make the fix.

 

[SlashTalon]

I have been playing with the new codeset quite considerably with and against the majority of the cast,
here are my thoughts:

-Lucario's recovery is awesomely ridiculous, prolly should be toned down
-Ganon's jab is so fast it almost breaks sheilds with 3 punches due to hitstun, again awesome but crazy
-This may just be me being a Falco main but any chance Falco could get his Nair back? it feels nerfed
-Charizards Fair is HUGE
-Lucas' UpB destroys almost any characters recovery. parts of it are like a charged smash attack.
-Link feels like a playable character now :D
-Ivysaur is nuts

Overall I love how it seems like its all coming together, honestly as of now I would be comfortable with a similar version as a beta tourney standard, but I would know there would just be a few kinks to work around.

 

[GHNeko]

I think the damage on Falco's Shine needs to be toned down to something really minimal. LIke 2-3%. The same range his lasers, as its utility is far to great to leave its damage output alone.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

I disagree, quite honestly I found shine very hard to land without comboing into it, at least from his jabs if not something fancier. As an approach it can easily be hopped over or shielded.

 

[GHNeko]

...The same thing could somewhat be said about Falco's lasers.

I'm simply looking at moves potency. I'm not taking into account human error.

7 damage for a combo that allows Falco to combo and tech chase is a bit much.

 

[Rudra]

-This may just be me being a Falco main but any chance Falco could get his Nair back? it feels nerfed.

How so?

I think the damage on Falco's Shine needs to be toned down to something really minimal. LIke 2-3%. The same range his lasers, as its utility is far to great to leave its damage output alone.

I disagree. His lasers still have far more range and have more potential to lead to a combo than his Shine does. If it does need a tone down in damage, it should be 4-5% instead of 2-3% imo.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

...The same thing could somewhat be said about Falco's lasers.

I'm simply looking at moves potency. I'm not taking into account human error.

7 damage for a combo that allows Falco to combo and tech chase is a bit much.

I understand the logic of what you're trying to say, and even though I don't see it as broken, that was going to be my first idea if it was ever proven to be broken (though I'd nerf it to 4% instead) before I thought about it some more. But by lowering damage, you make it even easier to combo from at higher percents inadvertently by sheer virtue of it doing less damage.

It might end up doing more harm than good to your cause in the long term. I still think it's fine as it is however, no changes necessary.

 

[Me_Aludes]

It'd be nice if we could perhaps get this sort of thing upon request for things that have already been added in the past. I've twice asked for an actual reason for Luigi's near n-air ko power aerial up-b that isn't essentially 'enough people whined about an escapable throw combo and they got what they wanted'. Did not enough people get ***** and complain about Ivysaur's d-throw to u-air to get the u-air nerfed instead of just learning to DI the throw properly?

<3 Magus.

10nowyouallloveMagus.

 

[shanus]

Sorry Magus, I meant to reply to you and never managed to get the opportunity. Can you provide a detailed description of proper DI, and do you perhaps know which characters are inescapable from it?

 

[Joak]

Handicap = buffer doesn't work in PAL.
PK's Pokemon changes on death. Ivasaurs grounded Up-B stuns him for a while afterwards.

Fix plz.

 

[Joak]

Its gone.

10normalshineangle

It's there in PAL version.

 

[Dan_X]

Falco's shine is ace. Techable in most %, not broken at all, it's like PERFECT. I'm in love.

Thumbs up!

This.

I think the damage on Falco's Shine needs to be toned down to something really minimal. LIke 2-3%. The same range his lasers, as its utility is far to great to leave its damage output alone.

I'm not sure about that. I mean, Falco's lasers amounted MUCH more damage before with only 1 more damage per hit, it makes a huge difference, it adds up fast. Before it would take three shots to amass 9 damage, now it takes 5 to reach 10. In addition, the shine is more difficult to land... So I'm not really sure if the damage tone down is a good idea... I mean if it helps comboing... maybe that's okay, but I'm not sure it's necessary to tone down the damage.

 

[CloneHat]

Falcon can be chaingrabbed to decent % by nearly anybody in the cast, which is not a good thing.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Falcon can be chaingrabbed to decent % by nearly anybody in the cast, which is not a good thing.

i try telling them this and their answer is "lrn 2 di" -_- i quit falcon in b+ because i mained him in brawl and was cg'd by most of the cast, and gimped by others. then in brawl+ its pretty much the same thing.

 

[Yingyay]

Tell them which characters and which throws, that might help them help you.
Plus I think its mostly due to the fact that he falls so fast, maybe a physics change for him might help? but if that happens his whole gameplay may change as well.

 

[CloneHat]

Tell them which characters and which throws, that might help them help you.
Plus I think its mostly due to the fact that he falls so fast, maybe a physics change for him might help? but if that happens his whole gameplay may change as well.

Spoiler

Take a wild guess which throws.

Mainly people's down throws. There are so many, we can't just change them all for the sake of Falcon, but we have to do something. Right now, Falcon is not good.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Tell them which characters and which throws, that might help them help you.
Plus I think its mostly due to the fact that he falls so fast, maybe a physics change for him might help? but if that happens his whole gameplay may change as well.

any throw that sends falcon upward. mostly downthrows and uthrows. and when i suggest little things to make him better those little things are simply "not needed" so im done arguing for a character that won't be helped. i rather just move on.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Haha if u ask that way skip2maloo ull be paid even less attention.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Haha if u ask that way skip2maloo ull be paid even less attention.

ask what way? im not asking anymore. -_- i said i stopped a long time ago and just moved onto to another character that's tourney viable.

 

[TLMSheikant]

IDk why ud complain about captain falcon hes tourney viable as he is. If the CGs u say arent 0 to death or are inescapable with DI they wont fix it. I know why you would complain about toon link tho. A character that has only 4-5 players and nobody fixing him because hes supposedly good enough is sad. Reason why Im about to drop him in brawl + for marth.

 

[cAm8ooo]

ask what way? im not asking anymore. -_- i said i stopped a long time ago and just moved onto to another character that's tourney viable.

Saying that CF isnt tournament viable is a joke. If you want something done about the CG's then provide me with evidence. I want a complete list of characters and what throws they use that CG him, if you can prove to me that many characters are able to rack up a good load of damage this way then ill be on your side but other wise I'm gonna disagree with you.

 

[GHNeko]

Saying that CF isnt tournament viable is a joke. If you want something done about the CG's then provide me with evidence. I want a complete list of characters and what throws they use that CG him, if you can prove to me that many characters are able to rack up a good load of damage this way then ill be on your side but other wise I'm gonna disagree with you.

Pretty much. The only what you can really do legit CGs against Falcon is with superb DI reading, and for certain characters like Mario, you pretty much have to guess until 12%+ and even then, you still need good DI reading. :/

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Saying that CF isnt tournament viable is a joke. If you want something done about the CG's then provide me with evidence. I want a complete list of characters and what throws they use that CG him, if you can prove to me that many characters are able to rack up a good load of damage this way then ill be on your side but other wise I'm gonna disagree with you.

at BtL he was only used in a ditto from what i saw. when he was used against squirtle, andyg just went olimar and didnt even switch back to falcon after that. im going by statistics. and like i said i've moved on from CF. Im not gonna go back and waste time collecting data on something that annoys me on a character I dont even use anymore. If you really want to know, ask ninjalink.

IDk why ud complain about captain falcon hes tourney viable as he is. If the CGs u say arent 0 to death or are inescapable with DI they wont fix it. I know why you would complain about toon link tho. A character that has only 4-5 players and nobody fixing him because hes supposedly good enough is sad. Reason why Im about to drop him in brawl + for marth.

Read above, and I did complain for toon link too. but shanus said TL is fine as he is. i tried out TL and he's pretty good. only thing restricting him is his dash grabs but im sure a code will be found out to fix that. TL has 0-death combo btw. lol.

Pretty much. The only what you can really do legit CGs against Falcon is with superb DI reading, and for certain characters like Mario, you pretty much have to guess until 12%+ and even then, you still need good DI reading. :/

Mario has poor grab range, and his cg is a lot more skillful as a said character such as sheik or snake where you simply just turn around or dash grab.

 

[VietGeek]

So Shanus thinks it's okay that Jigglypuff can Rest me for a KO because I tried to KO her?

Thus I can assume the subject of TL's Fsmash has been dismissed. Right?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

So Shanus thinks it's okay that Jigglypuff can Rest me for a KO because I tried to KO her?

Thus I can assume the subject of TL's Fsmash has been dismissed. Right?

No it hasn't. But TL's "fine" and ivysaur needed his recovery buff and lucario needed to be even better.

 

[cAm8ooo]

So Shanus thinks it's okay that Jigglypuff can Rest me for a KO because I tried to KO her?

Thus I can assume the subject of TL's Fsmash has been dismissed. Right?

No, im pretty sure they are going to fix his fsmash. Atleast, thats what ive heard.

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ And what about our dsmash gimp glitch? Id rather see it out of the game and receive something in exchange. Kinda like zss's side b and fsmash. I dont know if viet or sudai agree tho. But its cool to know theyre prolly working on fsmash.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

zelda's forward b doesn't go into free fall but ness and lucas' b moves do..a few pages back and shanus said the ness or lucas was probably sandbagging or going to lose anyway if using it in the air..but din's fire was to save her from "din's fire-cide".. -_- not much logic behind that

 

[cAm8ooo]

at BtL he was only used in a ditto from what i saw. when he was used against squirtle, andyg just went olimar and didnt even switch back to falcon after that. im going by statistics. and like i said i've moved on from CF. Im not gonna go back and waste time collecting data on something that annoys me on a character I dont even use anymore. If you really want to know, ask ninjalink.

So your going to use 1 tournament, and 1 person and call that "statistics" and reason alone that CF is a bad character? Metaknight didnt even place in top 25 at that tournament, nor does he place in any of chudats biweeklies, doesn't mean he is bad, just that he doesn't get used. If not too many people used CF how can we claim he is a bad a character? He has got some love at Chu's tournaments where he has placed well so i have just as much statistics to prove that he is tourney viable.

Providing tourney results from one tournament isnt going to get you anywhere. But like you said, you dont like cf anymore, so o well. If ninjalink or anyone else would like to provide the evidence and feedback to make this a better game then so be it. But if your going to set back and complain about something that you wont even prove then no one is going to listen to you. If you would just provide me with a list of characters i would be more then happy to test them with you but right now it's like pulling teeth and you wont open your mouth.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I actually like zelda having a way to defend herself offstage with dins fire. Tho i dont agree with her upB having like 0 lag. It should have less but not be like it is now. Shes way too campy.

 

[Revven]

Falcon can be chaingrabbed to decent % by nearly anybody in the cast, which is not a good thing.

i try telling them this and their answer is "lrn 2 di" -_- i quit falcon in b+ because i mained him in brawl and was cg'd by most of the cast, and gimped by others. then in brawl+ its pretty much the same thing.

Both SUPER DUPER ****ING WRONG.

I just did tests on this yesterday, only 7-10 characters have VIABLE CGs on Falcon. That is HARDLY the entire cast. And guess what? There's only two that are actually ridiculous (Luigi's and Pit's, both being Dthrows). As far as I tested, there's only those two that are ongoing beyond 100%. Everyone else's CGs on him that are viable stop at a certain percent, can be DI'd, and or can be jumped out of. Yeah, ****ing LEARN TO JUMP, if DI doesn't save you mash JUMP. Something none of you probably even thought of.

****ing whiners. Test **** out instead of overreacting and saying something you think happens when it doesn't without even testing it.

I'm working on compiling a MEGA DUPER list on stupid **** like this in the WBR, with help from everyone else back there. If you guys can be PATIENT, I will have PROPER information on everything that is "stupid" and shouldn't happen (and it actually DOESN'T happen because you guys never test anything). It'll be awhile before I get everything that's "stupid" that you guys think is wrong and it's a viable thing to do, when it actually isn't.

Edit: Forgot one other guaranteed CG I BELIEVE is also ongoing for awhile, Pika's Dthrow (but that pretty much works on anyone =\).

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

So your going to use 1 tournament, and 1 person and call that "statistics" and reason alone that CF is a bad character? Metaknight didnt even place in top 25 at that tournament, nor does he place in any of chudats biweeklies, doesn't mean he is bad, just that he doesn't get used. If not too many people used CF how can we claim he is a bad a character? He has got some love at Chu's tournaments where he has placed well so i have just as much statistics to prove that he is tourney viable.

Providing tourney results from one tournament isnt going to get you anywhere. But like you said, you dont like cf anymore, so o well. If ninjalink or anyone else would like to provide the evidence and feedback to make this a better game then so be it. But if your going to set back and complain about something that you wont even prove then no one is going to listen to you. If you would just provide me with a list of characters i would be more then happy to test them with you but right now it's like pulling teeth and you wont open your mouth.

i don't want to prove because i don't use him anymore. i refuse to fight for a lost cause. "if not too many people use CF" ... so the more people using him in a tourney makes him viable? thats like everyone going to a melee tourney and using pichu. besides, i'm not proving the cg's but you are clearly listening to me and replying. i've already told you, grabs that push him upward. you are free to test of your own free will.. some actually excute good di chasing others just dont. lol. play competitive, people will CP the hell out of you just for knowing which character you use. i probably had to face D3 in every brawl tourney i had with falcon.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Both SUPER DUPER (flower) WRONG.

I just did tests on this yesterday, only 7-10 characters have VIABLE CGs on Falcon. That is HARDLY the entire cast. And guess what? There's only two that are actually ridiculous (Luigi's and Pit's, both being Dthrows). As far as I tested, there's only those two that are ongoing beyond 100%[lol, 0-death cg's pretty much which is what supports my argument]. Everyone else's CGs on him that are viable stop at a certain percent and or can be jumped out of[you conviniently left out what %..]. Yeah, (please) LEARN TO JUMP, if DI doesn't save you mash JUMP. Something none of you probably even thought of.

(sexy) whiners. Test (things) out instead of overreacting and saying something you think happens when it doesn't without even testing it.

I'm working on compiling a MEGA DUPER list on stupid (daisys) like this in the WBR, with help from everyone else back there. If you guys can be PATIENT[maybe if this was openly TOLD then people would be patient], I will have PROPER information on everything that is "stupid" and shouldn't happen (and it actually DOESN'T happen because you guys never test anything)[then how else would we have known?]. It'll be awhile before I get everything that's "stupid" that you guys think is wrong and it's a viable thing to do, when it actually isn't.[lolwut? i quite understand your last line]

(edited because you are obviously menstruating)

^joke incase it's taken too seriously.
anyway, my point is (like stated in silven's thread) that characters that need a little boost aren't getting it, while good characters are continually buffed. the 4/7 build was the most balanced imo with the exception of a few characters. many other players can also agree with this statement that were listed in his thread. i can agree falcon's not as bad as im making him seem, but i'm doing so to argue against the good characters getting better.

 

[cAm8ooo]

i don't want to prove because i don't use him anymore. i refuse to fight for a lost cause. "if not too many people use CF" ... so the more people using him in a tourney makes him viable? thats like everyone going to a melee tourney and using pichu. besides, i'm not proving the cg's but you are clearly listening to me and replying. i've already told you, grabs that push him upward. you are free to test of your own free will.. some actually excute good di chasing others just dont. lol. play competitive, people will CP the hell out of you just for knowing which character you use. i probably had to face D3 in every brawl tourney i had with falcon.

Your misunderstanding. This is a beta in which your trying to prove something is wrong with a character. If we dont have people playing that character and providing the evidence we need then how can we know that the character is bad? I never said someone is tourney viable because more people use him/her at a tourney, your taking something i've said and twisting it while at the same time being hypocritical because you said that people wasnt using him and therefore he isnt viable.

I dont have time to mess with people who apparently dont have the will to help themselves. I listen to you, i debate with you, i then offer to help you if you provide some of the help yourself and yet you tell me to do it all myself when I'm not the one complaining in the first place.

Looks like SMk has done his own testing tho, thank god. Keep up the good work.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Your misunderstanding. This is a beta in which your trying to prove something is wrong with a character. If we dont have people playing that character and providing the evidence we need then how can we know that the character is bad? I never said someone is tourney viable because more people use him/her at a tourney, your taking something i've said and twisting it while at the same time being hypocritical because you said that people wasnt using him and therefore he isnt viable.

I dont have time to mess with people who apparently dont have the will to help themselves. I listen to you, i debate with you, i then offer to help you if you provide some of the help yourself and yet you tell me to do it all myself when I'm not the one complaining in the first place.

Looks like SMk has done his own testing tho, thank god. Keep up the good work.

we're both heavily mistunderstanding each other then.. im going to pm you since technically we're spamming.

 

[VietGeek]

I love how everyone's favorite word in the SW since yesterday is patience or a variation of it.

I ask because the fsmash thing has been talked about only a handful of times. I know you personally said you'd bring it back to discussion, but you're one person out of nearly 20 or so and unlike Link mains, we [TL players] don't consistently contact WBR members regularly to see if our needs are being worked on or still even on a priority list, especially with all these talks of TL being 'fine' (a subjective word I suppose).

I was only being rude to get a point across. Apparently it worked and I'm fine with that. Sorry.

 

[Revven]

(edited because you are obviously menstruating)

^joke incase it's taken too seriously.
anyway, my point is (like stated in silven's thread) that characters that need a little boost aren't getting it, while good characters are continually buffed. the 4/7 build was the most balanced imo with the exception of a few characters. many other players can also agree with this statement that were listed in his thread. i can agree falcon's not as bad as im making him seem, but i'm doing so to argue against the good characters getting better.

You'll get the information when the OP of the thread is actually complete but, here's a premature list of the chars who can CG Falcon some with %s and some without

Sonic Uthrow (50%)
Wario Dthrow (42%)
Pit Dthrow (ongoing beyond 100%, will be looked into fixing when we can)
Luigi Dthrow (ongoing beyond 100%, will be looked into fixing when we can)
Pikachu Dthrow (like everybody else, lasts awhile, will test more later)
Lucario Uthrow (Lucario's stock AND percent based, as well as your own % based, DI dependent so it's very situational and already known)
Mario Uthrow (I'm told 28% is when it ends, but, I will be double checking it today).

Very premature list. In the list in the WBR, I also listed CGs that do not work because you can jump out of them. Things like Sheik Dthrow CG doesn't work if you DI up and in (however she can still land a Bair, so DI the Bair to avoid getting combo'd). In any case, **** will get looked into, this has been known since beta 2.0, son, there's no reason to be *****ing about it now. We can't do anything about it unless we get a throw modifier, so, once again be moar patient.

Lastly, there don't appear to be many characters who need buffs. We're going to REVIEW stuff this week I would assume so you can stop whining about these "unncessary" buffs some characters received. You just need to be patient, seriously, the constant whining doesn't bring things on a silver platter the next day (a.k.a, people have lives).

Viet, I told you already, I will talk about the TL Fsmash when we have our review session this week. Okay? If you keep nagging, I won't even bring it up at all, I'm serious.

That goes for the rest of you. If you keep nagging, I won't do anything, nagging has never done or solved a single thing, it only irritates people.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

You'll get the information when the OP of the thread is actually complete but, here's a premature list of the chars who can CG Falcon some with %s and some without

Sonic Uthrow (50%)
Wario Dthrow (42%)
Pit Dthrow (ongoing beyond 100%, will be looked into fixing when we can)
Luigi Dthrow (ongoing beyond 100%, will be looked into fixing when we can)
Pikachu Dthrow (like everybody else, lasts awhile, will test more later)
Lucario Uthrow (Lucario's stock AND percent based, as well as your own % based, DI dependent so it's very situational and already known)
Mario Uthrow (I'm told 28% is when it ends, but, I will be double checking it today).

Very premature list. In the list in the WBR, I also listed CGs that do not work because you can jump out of them. Things like Sheik Dthrow CG doesn't work if you DI up and in (however she can still land a Bair, so DI the Bair to avoid getting combo'd). In any case, **** will get looked into, this has been known since beta 2.0, son, there's no reason to be *****ing about it now. We can't do anything about it unless we get a throw modifier, so, once again be moar patient.

Lastly, there don't appear to be many characters who need buffs. We're going to REVIEW stuff this week I would assume so you can stop whining about these "unncessary" buffs some characters received. You just need to be patient, seriously, the constant whining doesn't bring things on a silver platter the next day (a.k.a, people have lives).

Viet, I told you already, I will talk about the TL Fsmash when we have our review session this week. Okay? If you keep nagging, I won't even bring it up at all, I'm serious.

That goes for the rest of you. If you keep nagging, I won't do anything, nagging has never done or solved a single thing, it only irritates people.

not nagging, see, if a post like this was made instead of the people being brushed off they wouldn't have nagged in the first place. instead we're told "lrn2di" or "that characters fine" etc then in the next set we see our characters left out while others receive buffs. it all good tho. i still wubs u.

 

[Revven]

What characters are being "left behind"? What characters are inherently deemed weaker than the others? Ness is about the only character I can think of that has a few slight issues (although his Fair is amazing if you space it right, after seeing Cape play Ness, I can say that Ness is too good). Plz tell me who has these problems, who is left?

No one is left behind.