Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[JCaesar]

I played an 8hr session saturday using the 5-22 set and here are a few opinions.

Zelda's usmash combos into itself for quite a while (up to 80% on CF) and can be ended with a uair.

Yeah, Falcon gets ***** pretty hard by Zelda's usmash This probably does need to be fixed in some way. Falcon has other problems like that too. A few characters can CG him to ridiculous %s.

Zelda also has a dthrow>fair/bair combo at ~100% on several characters. With good SDI the lighter and/or smaller characters can escape, but heavier/larger characters are condemned.

So basically you have a 0-90% combo and an incredibly easy to pull off finish after?

That's not a legit combo on any character at any %. Just DI behind Zelda and you go out of reach.

Also, Olimar's usmash has pretty much the same effect, and dthrow>fair is a true combo at all % as far as i can tell. So...grab>dthrow>usmash x 4>uair grab>dthrow>fair olimar just 0-deathed you...using 4 moves. Lame.

Yes Oli has some ridiculous combos. I personally think he's top tier and could use a nerf, but he hasn't had a lot of representation yet, so we'll have to wait until someone starts ****** with him.

Snake is by far the heaviest char, and it makes him one of the top4 imo (Marth, Kirby, Squirtle, Snake.) I was living to 150-200% consistently, i survived a knee at 120% (granted on deadlands) and it was really just obscene.

Snake has a lot of other problems. He doesn't have much of an aerial game, and he has one of the worst recoveries in the game and is real easy to gimp, since his C4 isn't as effective as it was in Brawl. Just toss him off the edge and he's screwed.

Bowser is pretty obviously the worst character in the game at this point. There isnt really any obvious fix for him, but he definitely needs help.

I dunno, he has a lot of tricks. He never felt bottom tier to me, but I don't know anyone who mains him, so you could be right.

 

[Revven]

I dunno, he has a lot of tricks. He never felt bottom tier to me, but I don't know anyone who mains him, so you could be right.

Cape uses Bowser and is actually pretty good with him. Alas though, he is away for the week.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Yeah, Falcon gets ***** pretty hard by Zelda's usmash This probably does need to be fixed in some way. Falcon has other problems like that too. A few characters can CG him to ridiculous %s.

That's not a legit combo on any character at any %. Just DI behind Zelda and you go out of reach.

Yes Oli has some ridiculous combos. I personally think he's top tier and could use a nerf, but he hasn't had a lot of representation yet, so we'll have to wait until someone starts ****** with him.

Snake has a lot of other problems. He doesn't have much of an aerial game, and he has one of the worst recoveries in the game and is real easy to gimp, since his C4 isn't as effective as it was in Brawl. Just toss him off the edge and he's screwed.

I dunno, he has a lot of tricks. He never felt bottom tier to me, but I don't know anyone who mains him, so you could be right.

Hmm if you are sure that zelda combo doesn't work ill take your word for it. Wfter I 0-deathed twice I pretty much decided I wouldn't play her until usmash is fixed.

So when NC-Echo starts playing Olimar in brawl+ and goes to Chu's and beats everyone is that enough? >_>

If I forgot to mention it, kirby seems to be best in the game right now. You may say _____ is also very good and can beat kirby but then kirby does a really long grab combo that ends in a dair gimp (which are really easy without the ASL) and all of a sudden kirby is up a stock.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Kirby is best? It is probably that his moves were sped up a lot, and the hitstun gives him a huge advantage.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Kirby is best? It is probably that his moves were sped up a lot, and the hitstun gives him a huge advantage.

on a side note: YESSSSSSSS! KIRBY > METAKNIGHT! MY DREAMS HAVE COME TRUE!!

lol :] :]

That match isnt really that close at all anymore. The smaller MK fair can't stop kirby's bair. You basically end up dair camping with MK until kirby realizes 'i have just as many jumps as you lol' and then you lose >_>

 

[cookieM0Nster]

so, Kirby is better than MK, with his broken Dair "spike".

Well, Kirby's in Brawl are more ground based than MK, so they don't jump a whole lot, except for recovery.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Kirby is best? It is probably that his moves were sped up a lot, and the hitstun gives him a huge advantage.

Uhh none of Kirby's moves were sped up, and his Dair spike is still very much SDI'able. I've had both a Diddy and Marth Up-B straight out of my Dair and I was counter-spiked. ;_;

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I think, personally, that DDD is the worst character in the game. I played like 5 matches with him last night and the only thing i could do was edgeguard. I couldn't combo with anything, and he is too slow and bulky to get a grab in. He is probably the slowest character overall in the game, even Bowser felt faster than him @_@. I just think he needs to be sped up and have a little more combability. Maybe a little more KB on his F-tilt so that he can run under and u-tilt or something, but i could barely get 2 hit strings...

 

[GHNeko]

I think, personally, that DDD is the worst character in the game. I played like 5 matches with him last night and the only thing i could do was edgeguard. I couldn't combo with anything, and he is too slow and bulky to get a grab in. He is probably the slowest character overall in the game, even Bowser felt faster than him @_@. I just think he needs to be sped up and have a little more combability. Maybe a little more KB on his F-tilt so that he can run under and u-tilt or something, but i could barely get 2 hit strings...

lrn2SHDair

 

[shanus]

Dair more ESAM, dair more

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Oh...>_> that's like the one thing i didn't try. But your gameplay shouldn't have to revolve solely around one move...thats kinda stupid...

 

[Arkaether]

So nobody addressed his Jigglypuff issue. Is it possible to give her dair the same semi-spike effects as fox's? It'd be interesting. I don't know if it'd be good or bad, but I do want to try it out.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Maybe we could do that and test. I think it would be a little too overpowering, her edgeguarding game is aleady solid, and jiggly doesn't need many more comboes lol.

 

[Arkaether]

Well, the main thing I want for jiggly's dair is for it to combo like fox's dair. It doesn't really work that well as a combo move onstage.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Jiggly is better than toon link in brawl +. Toon link doesnt need buffs. Therefore, jiggly doesnt need them.

 

[GHNeko]

Well, the main thing I want for jiggly's dair is for it to combo like fox's dair. It doesn't really work that well as a combo move onstage.

No. Stop buffing good characters. D:

She needs to work to get characters in the air. D:

EDIT: LOL @ FALLACY BY TLM.

 

[Arkaether]

But it's Jigglypuff. We need to buff Jigglypuff more. ;_;

 

[Sanu]

Oh, the reverse knee is back? I can finally stop boycotting this then

 

[GHNeko]

Yea. And its back to full power. It's just 60% of hits original hitbox.

Which is pretty pimp if you know what you're doing. :3

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I really need to get a vid up of the samus missile glitch thingy >_>

 

[Glick]

Jigglypuff is a really solid character. A lot of people say her rest is overpowered, and I nearly agreed with that for a while, till I realized a few things. Her glaring flaws in regular brawl are still there. HORRIBLE range. HORRIBLE weight and REALLY slow. And some characters completely shut her out. So, her rest is totally justifiable. Shes a fantastic character thanks to her combos, edge guarding, killing power and rest. Without her rest she'd be severely underpowered.

Also with a little DI you can raise your chances of avoiding rest, since rest in brawl has a tiny hitbox(compared to melee and 64) (http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8079/restxw6.jpg) while in melee and 64 it was literally her entire body.

So please, do not nerf her rest. She would be TERRIBLE without it.


As far as Dair goes, I think having a dair like foxes would a really easy way to combo into rest, and I think its just too easy. Her dair>rest requires a little di chasing and its not bad.

 

[Arkaether]

Then how about we enlarge rest's hitbox? Haha. Hah.

Oh wait, then she'd be broken.

 

[GHNeko]

Rest could be stronger. It could star KO like it used to. That would make it really broken.

 

[Arkaether]

Seriously, though, does anyone mind slightly increasing rest's hitbox to be her entire body? It's incredibly irritating when you miss half the time when it should have hit.

 

[GHNeko]

Seriously, though, does anyone mind slightly increasing rest's hitbox to be her entire body? It's incredibly irritating when you miss half the time when it should have hit.

lrn2aimrest.


You srsly need to start giving legit reasons why we should do these things. xD

 

[Melomaniacal]

Her entire body would be ridiculous. It's not meant to be easy to land, it's a high-risk/high-return attack.

 

[Glick]

Yep. Increasing her size is ridiculous. It shouldn't be that easy. I think its fine the way it is. Not stronger, not weaker. just leave it alone lol.

 

[Arkaether]

GHNeko, the reason I don't give legit reasons is because there isn't any. I'm just shamelessly promoting unnecessary buffs for my favorite character :D

 

[GHNeko]

GHNeko, the reason I don't give legit reasons is because there isn't any. I'm just shamelessly promoting unnecessary buffs for my favorite character :D

Then stop it before you get an infraction. D:<

 

[Arkaether]

Aww ;_;

10infractions

Almas: USER WAS INFRACTED FOR THIS POST

 

[Mattnumbers]

All these people are talking about "the best character in the game" but no one ever mentions Luigi. He is such a beast in Brawl+ I'm not even joking. He combo's Dthrow to UpB at almost any percent to all characters besides Bowser and Ganon, he has less hitstun than any other character, he has an insane string breaker/combo starter/KO move (his nair), and he has an amazing aerial/combo game. He also has a long range recovery (granted it is very predictable). I'm not calling for many nerfs on him, but I'm just saying, no one ever seems to notice how amazing he is in Brawl+.

 

[Rudra]

Luigi always seems to go unnoticed doesnt he? =P
I do agree though, he's insanely good as combos and kills relatively easy (and early). The Nair out of Hitstun is probably the best combo breaker in the game (excluding natural counters, and even then, his is multi-purpose) being second only to Wolf's Shine imo (and even he suffers a lot of hitstun =/)

 

[Arkaether]

Guess I was asking for that. Anyway, as far as the Luigi nerfs go, I think we should wait until the development of a character-specific hitstun. His dthrow>upB combo won't kill until 120% or so with good DI, meaning that even if it's good it's not broken. He's got excellent priority and aerials, but nothing excessively special. His nair is awesome, but that's just one defining trait he has. His incredible recovery is way too predictable and easily gimpable. Except for his absurdly low hitstun, he doesn't really have anything special, and they don't really have a code to fix that.

Besides, his weird slides and physics makes him hard to play and somewhat of an oddball.

 

[GHNeko]

Its Because No One Pays Attention To Weegee.

 

[Plum]

All these people are talking about "the best character in the game" but no one ever mentions Luigi. He is such a beast in Brawl+ I'm not even joking. He combo's Dthrow to UpB at almost any percent to all characters besides Bowser and Ganon, he has less hitstun than any other character, he has an insane string breaker/combo starter/KO move (his nair), and he has an amazing aerial/combo game. He also has a long range recovery (granted it is very predictable). I'm not calling for many nerfs on him, but I'm just saying, no one ever seems to notice how amazing he is in Brawl+.

It's really because he has nobody representing him besides Boss, but he also plays Mario.
In all seriousness though, <3 Boss's Luigi.

BtL had a lot of representation of the other "top" characters like Marth and Squirtle (A LOT of Squirtle rep) while Luigi never really got any.

Luigi is INSANE though. I'll say it again though, its not his moveset that is broken but rather the way hitstun affects him combined with his moveset (well... combined with his insane priority, frame 3, set up for anything, reliable kill move, combo breaking Nair.)

 

[CountKaiser]

There was one Luigi at BtL, but my G&W ***** him.

 

[GHNeko]

There was alot of marth of BtL?


<_______>


COULD OF FOOLED ME.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLN1iOvR69I&feature=channel_page

Samus missile glitch. IDK if it is because samus can now quadruple homing missile, but if you can fix it, please do.

 

[cubaisdeath]

I love when people talk about the best and worst characters in the game, when that changes every build. I keep seeing this "DDD is the worst character" and same with bowser. its either, you guys are just comparing them how they are in vbrawl, or you just don't know how to play them yet. I learned that lesson awhile ago. just keep playing them, you'll find some nice tricks that make them pretty good actually. I don't think there are any characters that are considerably worse than any others, you just need to take the time to play them.

also, everyone knew about luigi, and his staple 60% starter combo. luigi is fine, he doesn't need buffs or nerfs. and no, kirby isn't better than MK. just because MK has a nerfed fair, doesn't mean that kirby is instantly better because his bair out ranges it. why would MK challenge kirby in the air anyways? that didn't even work in vbrawl lol. just space ftilts and up b if you're in danger. MK can punish kirby's up b really easily. so sorry, MK is still better than kirby

 

[Mattnumbers]

Luigi is my secondary now (he was my tertiary for a while), and I wasn't calling for nerfs, I was just saying.........

Why no love for weegee?

Anyways the only thing I think they need to do with him is increase his hitstun (only a bit, he should still have very little, its part of his individuality) and maybe alter his Dthrow a bit, and as of now we can't do either of those things.